Stealing From Work and Corporations...Good or Bad?

Originally posted by Chewingonmushrooms

Originally posted by ViperChili
reply to post by Chewingonmushrooms

 

Morals are entirely subjective.

My morals state that I do what I can to support my family so that my son doesn't have to struggle in life like I did.

My morals do not include you, or anyone I do not care about.

So how am I the parasite? Judging by your comments as long as it isn't your family or yourself you couldn't care less. How is that any different from the so called "entitlements" that you villify? Aren't they doing whatever it takes for their family and themselves?

edit on 11-5-2011 by Chewingonmushrooms because: (no reason given)

Let me ask you, should others be responsible for your livelihood? And as for the " entitlements ", is it correct in taking the fruits of your labor, and giving it to someone else, who say, was to lazy to get a job?

A question for all of the people here who support thievery:

The United States government is the biggest criminal organization on the planet, yet all of you have proverbial hard-ons for corporations.

Where is your outrage over the outright theft that occurs daily by the government?

Originally posted by ViperChili
A question for all of the people here who support thievery:

The United States government is the biggest criminal organization on the planet, yet all of you have proverbial hard-ons for corporations.

Where is your outrage over the outright theft that occurs daily by the government?

Its easier to point the finger at the corporations for some. Identifying the true culprit would be to great a task~

Originally posted by ViperChili
A question for all of the people here who support thievery:

The United States government is the biggest criminal organization on the planet, yet all of you have proverbial hard-ons for corporations.

Where is your outrage over the outright theft that occurs daily by the government?

I do not support thievery but I'll answer the question anyway.

Huge corporations practically own the government. They use government to get what they want. The FDA and the USDA are great examples of abuse by government for a corporation's benefit.

And let's not even get started with the banking/investment industry and the people Obama surrounds himself with.

Crony Capitalism comes to mind.

the definition of corporation.

cor·po·ra·tion noun /ˌkôrpəˈrāSHən/  corporations, plural A company or group of people authorized to act as a single entity (legally a person) and recognized as such in law A group of people elected to govern a city, town, or borough A paunch

in other words, classifying my business under this definition means it is ok to steal from me?

Originally posted by rubbertramp
reply to post by Chewingonmushrooms

 

Originally posted by rubbertramp i think the word 'corporation' should just be removed from this argument. this is really about stealing from those who did better than others concerning income. in other words, if a person is struggling and poorer than the o.p., then they have a right to steal from the author of the o.p. And do tell how do they "do better"? You want to remove corporation from the argument, but corporation IS the argument. A person that "does better" within the system reinforces the system and by extension becomes part of the problem. It becomes a question of ideology based on different sets of morals. On one hand the corporation is lauded for being (or becoming) successful regardless of the means it took to get there. On the other hand corporations are demonized exactly because of the means use to become successful. In the situation of stealing, both parties would be guilty, except one is coming from an individual and the other is coming from a group of individuals. Corporations by nature must sustain continuous growth in order to meet their quarterly profits, so by extension must find ways to cut corners. If that means outsourcing so be it. If that means destroying the land to acquire materials so be it. If that means interfering with the public's ability to shape their furture to interference with elections and legislation so be it. If that means laying off workers so be it.

the difference i see between us is that i don't consider corps evil because of their nature.
i am against corp. wellfare and bailouts and think it should be a matter of 'the strong will survive'.
i can't just lump all corps into one catagory.
some are much better than others. it would be different to only discuss those on the dow, s&p and nas.
there are good and there are bad, i refuse to clump them all into one.
not all corps are outsourcing and not all are sending their profits offshore.

Fair enough. I can see what you are saying the problems lies with the idea that strong will survive. I'm all for healthy competition, but we would be lying to ourselves if we believe that. It's about squashing competition which leads to monopolies that I have problems with. Regardless if the guy leading the company has a heart or not, once that company goes public the shareholders hold power and nothing else. Shareholders are part time investors that care only about increasing their share and profit at the exculsion of everything else. Combine that with the pressure to have gains in every quarter (definition of growth) and it becomes messy. I equate corporations with out of control fires that need more oxygen and fuel to sustain it's continual growth until it implodes. As long as there is fuel (cheaper and cheaper labor, resources to produce goods, loop holes for lax environmental policy etc..) it will continue consuming.

reply to post by MegaMind

Huge corporations practically own the government.

Actually, with all the bailouts, it would be that the USG owns the corporations now. But I get what your saying.

reply to post by MegaMind


Who is really at fault?

The people are.

The people who keep electing these jackasses hold the majority of the blame.

Originally posted by Realms

Originally posted by Chewingonmushrooms

Originally posted by ViperChili
reply to post by Chewingonmushrooms

 

Morals are entirely subjective.

My morals state that I do what I can to support my family so that my son doesn't have to struggle in life like I did.

My morals do not include you, or anyone I do not care about.

So how am I the parasite? Judging by your comments as long as it isn't your family or yourself you couldn't care less. How is that any different from the so called "entitlements" that you villify? Aren't they doing whatever it takes for their family and themselves?

edit on 11-5-2011 by Chewingonmushrooms because: (no reason given)

Let me ask you, should others be responsible for your livelihood? And as for the " entitlements ", is it correct in taking the fruits of your labor, and giving it to someone else, who say, was to lazy to get a job?

To answer your question, no others should not be directly responsible for my livelihood. I worked all my life and paid my share of taxes. The question isn't whether they are directly responsible for my livelihood but rather through their actions are they making it more difficult for me to sustain myself, and through their actions are they a benefit to society or a hinderence? Those should be the questions to ask.

Originally posted by Chewingonmushrooms

Originally posted by Realms

Originally posted by Chewingonmushrooms

Originally posted by ViperChili
reply to post by Chewingonmushrooms

 

Morals are entirely subjective.

My morals state that I do what I can to support my family so that my son doesn't have to struggle in life like I did.

My morals do not include you, or anyone I do not care about.

So how am I the parasite? Judging by your comments as long as it isn't your family or yourself you couldn't care less. How is that any different from the so called "entitlements" that you villify? Aren't they doing whatever it takes for their family and themselves?

edit on 11-5-2011 by Chewingonmushrooms because: (no reason given)

Let me ask you, should others be responsible for your livelihood? And as for the " entitlements ", is it correct in taking the fruits of your labor, and giving it to someone else, who say, was to lazy to get a job?

To answer your question, no others should not be directly responsible for my livelihood. I worked all my life and paid my share of taxes. The question isn't whether they are directly responsible for my livelihood but rather through their actions are they making it more difficult for me to sustain myself, and through their actions are they a benefit to society or a hinderence? Those should be the questions to ask.

With that said, knowing that the bailouts issued by the USG in a sense, allowed ownership of the corporations, wouldn't expressing anger towards the new owners, ( that being the USG ), be where to point the finger? Not so much the business owners themselves.

Originally posted by ViperChili
reply to post by MegaMind

 

Who is really at fault?

The people are.

The people who keep electing these jackasses hold the majority of the blame.

Actually people are. Not just "the" people. All people.

If people would quit being so damn greedy and so callous of their fellow man none of this would be happening. You can't legislate morality. If politicians weren't power and money hungry they couldn't be bought. If companies cared about people and what is right and not just profits they wouldn't be trying to buy politicians.

In short, people who care nothing about anyone else and are only in it for themselves is what makes the world the way it is. I'm not advocating communism just common decency.

Originally posted by Revolution-2012

Originally posted by 46ACE
If I take advantage of my half blind old neighbor because she really doesn't need every one of her yard gnomes and won't miss the one or two I steal.She will rightfully believe she lives in an f'd up world. And I'd be directly responsible

Discuss all you want. I presented my opinion:" theft is still theft".

Wrong.

Stealing from the rich and giving to the poor is not stealing from your neighbor and giving to the poor.

Corporations steal from us every day, the government steals from us every day, big oil steals from us everyday.

There is no logical reason, or moral issue with stealing from a absurdly wealthy corporate entity.

edit on 10-5-2011 by Revolution-2012 because: (no reason given)

WOW, just wow, how does a corporation steal for you everyday? because they provide goods and services In multiple located at a reasonable price? How does “BIG OIL” steal from you? because they drill oil, refine it and deliver it to your local gas station at a reasonable price? So then you can pump it in your car and go about your marry little way? do you belive you are intitaled to these goods and services? do you think they dont come in at a price?

If you hate these corporations that bring good from all around the world and sale them to you in your local town I recommend you drill your own oil, refine it and stop using them if you’re going to complain about it

you people make me sick

Originally posted by ViperChili
A question for all of the people here who support thievery:

The United States government is the biggest criminal organization on the planet, yet all of you have proverbial hard-ons for corporations.

Where is your outrage over the outright theft that occurs daily by the government?

Don't get me started on the government. For once we both agree something. But something tells me we agree for different reasons. And why do you believe it's the biggest criminal organization on the planet?

Originally posted by Chewingonmushrooms

Originally posted by rubbertramp
reply to post by Chewingonmushrooms

 

Originally posted by rubbertramp i think the word 'corporation' should just be removed from this argument. this is really about stealing from those who did better than others concerning income. in other words, if a person is struggling and poorer than the o.p., then they have a right to steal from the author of the o.p. And do tell how do they "do better"? You want to remove corporation from the argument, but corporation IS the argument. A person that "does better" within the system reinforces the system and by extension becomes part of the problem. It becomes a question of ideology based on different sets of morals. On one hand the corporation is lauded for being (or becoming) successful regardless of the means it took to get there. On the other hand corporations are demonized exactly because of the means use to become successful. In the situation of stealing, both parties would be guilty, except one is coming from an individual and the other is coming from a group of individuals. Corporations by nature must sustain continuous growth in order to meet their quarterly profits, so by extension must find ways to cut corners. If that means outsourcing so be it. If that means destroying the land to acquire materials so be it. If that means interfering with the public's ability to shape their furture to interference with elections and legislation so be it. If that means laying off workers so be it.

the difference i see between us is that i don't consider corps evil because of their nature.
i am against corp. wellfare and bailouts and think it should be a matter of 'the strong will survive'.
i can't just lump all corps into one catagory.
some are much better than others. it would be different to only discuss those on the dow, s&p and nas.
there are good and there are bad, i refuse to clump them all into one.
not all corps are outsourcing and not all are sending their profits offshore.

Fair enough. I can see what you are saying the problems lies with the idea that strong will survive. I'm all for healthy competition, but we would be lying to ourselves if we believe that. It's about squashing competition which leads to monopolies that I have problems with. Regardless if the guy leading the company has a heart or not, once that company goes public the shareholders hold power and nothing else. Shareholders are part time investors that care only about increasing their share and profit at the exculsion of everything else. Combine that with the pressure to have gains in every quarter (definition of growth) and it becomes messy. I equate corporations with out of control fires that need more oxygen and fuel to sustain it's continual growth until it implodes. As long as there is fuel (cheaper and cheaper labor, resources to produce goods, loop holes for lax environmental policy etc..) it will continue consuming.

yes, but you forgot the most important part.
the citizens keep these corps. alive by investing in them and purchasing their goods.
along with voting for politicians who accept lobbying money and support that which we disagree with.
i'm just about accepting responsibility.
it's like walmart, i do not shop there.
people want to bitch about outsourcing and all these products from china, and then say they need to shop at walmart because they can not afford to do otherwise.
me, i happily pay more for an american made product at a ma and pop store.
i have no problem with it.

don't take this line personal, i think we agree on many things, but
i'm tired of people blaming their possitions on others.
i'm self employed, at 47 i have been for over 25 years.
i refuse to get a job working for corps, or another human in general.
my true wish is that more would step up to the plate, small biz. is the life blood of america.

reply to post by Chewingonmushrooms


Bribery, theft, murder, corruption, narcotics trafficking, etc etc. I could spend all day typing out the crimes the USG has committed.

Add in the unconstitutionality of 90% of their actions, and it is simply 1 giant mafia.

reply to post by Realms



I never believed in the concept of "too big to fail" and never once agreed with bailouts period. The government is another target of mine and believe they are beyond inept. However you cannot discuss the governmental process without discussing it's direct influences. Government, big business and wall street are pretty much names with different labels but all which share the same root.

reply to post by ViperChili


Viper we agree. I even gave you a star!!

edit: I've exhausted the subject myself - last word to the OP - You steal and make excuses! That is the same thing these big corporations did with child laborers over seas. You have served yourself only and make excuses and rationalize why. Grow up!

reply to post by doctornamtab




two wrongs don't make a right


hey the guy down the street beats his wife when he's mad,,, so should i

hey,,, my dog licks his,,,,,,, it's not fair maybe i should

hey he murdered someone so can i


it's about morals,,,, and doing right for you,,, not basing you on what others do


and i bet someone owned these businesses and not all are corporations


your thinking and many who also hold those values is what is sinking america,,,,, we're4 a morally bankrupt society,,, and not speaking from a religious standpoint,,,, but more of right and wrong and give me i deserve it mentality

Originally posted by ViperChili
reply to post by Chewingonmushrooms

 

Bribery, theft, murder, corruption, narcotics trafficking, etc etc. I could spend all day typing out the crimes the USG has committed.

Add in the unconstitutionality of 90% of their actions, and it is simply 1 giant mafia.

Starred for the truth lol. About the only thing I hate more than out of control corporations, is the bloated government and it's flacid measures. Many will not like to admit it because somehow they equate "government" with "my government" (it isn't my government, never voted for Obama and do not approve of "it's" direction), but the government running things is perhaps one (if not THE) largest terrorist organizations out there.

reply to post by Chewingonmushrooms

The government is another target of mine and believe they are beyond inept.

That much we certainly agree on. I think between you, me and Viper...Im pretty sure the hatred toward the government would be on the " same page ".