What if America falls?, page 3
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ATS Members have flagged this thread 31 times


reply posted on 8-5-2011 @ 09:06 PM by watcher3339
There are a lot of really good thoughts and comments on this thread. Even the ones that I don't agree with are thought provoking and show thought, that can be hard to come by these days!

To the OP, thank you for appreciating my first response. To others who think my summarization of the state of events actually evidences what will contribute to our downfall, I fail to follow that logic but am open to further discussion.

In terms of inflation. Yes, it is coming. China will raise their wages and standard of living. That will cool their GDP and cause price increases here of all imported items. And this before a change in the exchange of the two currencies. And that exchange will also be fluctuating. But, inflation is not all bad. Especially for debtors and debtor nations.

The monthly price of mortgages will not change for those who already have them. But, inflation and a devalued dollar will eventually lead to wage increases. Now the 1900 a month you are paying for your metro area 3 bedroom, bath a a half (locked in at a mid five interest rate to reflect average metro price and interest on decent credit during the mid point of the boom and price spike of the real estate bubble), will only be 20 percent of your monthly rather than say 32 percent. The 12 percent savings will go to pay for the higher price of gas and goods. So, homeowners largely break even.

Unless the homeowner was on the brink of default. If they were on the brink of default inflation would restore their recently devalued property value. This gives them the motivation to continue to pay. The 12 percent wiggle room from their new inflation adjusted salary allows them to pay. Sure, they are still tight on other things that they want to buy, but they stop defaulting. They stop the foreclosures and the downward spiral of house values.

As imported items continue to rise in price there comes a point where the comparative labor advantage of "underpaid" developing countries personel becomes a wash and business starts to move back home. U.S. technology exports are up several percentage points since the start of 2011. Other industries will follow.

If inflation can put the brakes on the housing crisis AND pull jobs back to the states. Well, then yes. Of course they are doing it on purpose. And they should. But, it is a fine line and there are absolutely people who will not come out ahead on all of this. But the government, and the Middle Class will both benefit. The rich will lose nothing. So, it's full steam ahead.

They just have to not let it spiral out of control too quickly.
edit on 8-5-2011 by watcher3339 because: wrote imports and meant exports



reply posted on 8-5-2011 @ 09:20 PM by incrediblelousminds
Originally posted by fooks
Originally posted by Nobama
reply to
post by ExCommando



what are you talking about? I was stating every great Empire comes to an end (history shows it) and used Rome as a example...


well when rome fell, so did the world.

didn't the dark ages start right around then?


The 'dark ages' were, for the most part, relegated to Europe. Parts of Africa were experiencing a golden age, of course , China was doing relatively well, and of course there were several civilizations in what is now the Americas.



reply posted on 8-5-2011 @ 09:21 PM by liejunkie01
reply to post by Under Water





I think the first thing that would happen is we would dissolve the USA and create the NAU (North American Union), merging canada and mexico with the usa.


I would definitely disagree with this statement. This is my(our) country and I think there are people that would agree that we will fight like our ancestors for the continuence of the United States of America. Our military generals are some of the most patriotic citizens and I have a hard time seeing them allowing that to happen. Break out the pitchforks and machetes it may get messy.

To the hell with Mexico and Canada uniting.

Not trying to offend people. This is only my opinion as a resident of the midwest USA. To the CIA member who is reading this...hello...

This crap can only go on for so long. Something will change..
edit on 8-5-2011 by liejunkie01 because: grammar
edit on 8-5-2011 by liejunkie01 because: (our)



reply posted on 8-5-2011 @ 09:27 PM by fooks
reply to post by incrediblelousminds



true but rome had no influence there, they probably never heard of rome.


reply to post by ExCommando



well then, if america did fall then, i believe it will not resort to a NAU.

the multi national corps (based in the us) will die also, or leave, leaving a vacum for others to start again. opec will switch to another currency as the US opens it's own resources. they will suffer also. russia and china have their own resources.

we will have to become isolationists, for a while. not a bad idea. way big changes all over the world.
all our assets will be called back.

i can't see americans jumping ship, there will be no place to go, imo.

if there is war, it will most likely come to us.

the political system, left/right will collapse also. leaving a better field open.

these idiots will be pointing fingers at each other all the way to jail.



star 4 u liejunkie


edit on 8-5-2011 by fooks because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 8-5-2011 @ 09:29 PM by Ultraman2011
Originally posted by liejunkie01
reply to
post by Under Water





I think the first thing that would happen is we would dissolve the USA and create the NAU (North American Union), merging canada and mexico with the usa.


I would definitely disagree with this statement. This is my country and I think there are people that would agree that we will fight like our ancestors for the continuence of the United States of America. Our military generals are some of the most patriotic citizens and I have a hard time seeing them allowing that to happen. Break out the pitchforks and machetes it may get messy.

If you wanted to join the rest of the civilized world, the least you could do is remove boarders and maybe work on a unified currency. One of the reasons your country looks so stupid, as an example, is that you have millions of Mexicans crossing the boarder illegally every day, and the brain trust in Wash answer is to...wait for it..get hard ass on Canada...hey lets put camera's on the north or the boarder and demand passports! Your politicians are cowards who cannot deal with the real problem.

If you drive around Europe you can drive from country to country, without having some half-wit, working off a bad childhood giving you grief at the border. Trust me, we are not going down to the US to live in Buffalo or Detroit.

To the hell with Mexico and Canada uniting.

Not trying to offend people. This is only my opinion as a resident of the midwest USA. To the CIA members who is reading this...hello...

This crap can only go on for so long. Something will change..



reply posted on 8-5-2011 @ 09:29 PM by ExCommando
reply to post by fooks



I think this is turning into an extremely interesting and current topic - the more views we receive, the more we are able to drill down, and hopefully encourage further debate.

With this in mind, I think we need to have more flags, so it's bought to the wider ATS attention - let's not let this topic slip away once it's not "new".

Cheers guys


reply posted on 8-5-2011 @ 09:36 PM by incrediblelousminds
Originally posted by fooks
reply to
post by incrediblelousminds



true but rome had no influence there, they probably never heard of rome.


Yes, they were aware of Rome.

Regardless, my post was in response to you saying 'when Rome fell, so did the world', which is not a true statement. As you seem to note yourself, there were other parts of the world besides Rome.


reply posted on 8-5-2011 @ 09:37 PM by liejunkie01
reply to post by Ultraman2011





If you wanted to join the rest of the civilized world, the least you could do is remove boarders and maybe work on a unified currency.



Can I ask which part of the "civilized world" are we talking about here. Sorry, unified currency does not sound good to me. But what do I know?


reply posted on 8-5-2011 @ 09:38 PM by g146541
reply to post by ExCommando



America will not fall, we are 2 diverse continents.
However, the US is set to stumble.
Some people will die from anything from justice to starvation.
We will reset and hopefully not meddle in others affairs.



reply posted on 8-5-2011 @ 09:57 PM by BanMePlz
reply to post by g146541



You really think this is happeneing from the u.s. meddling in others affairs?


reply posted on 8-5-2011 @ 09:59 PM by snowspirit
Originally posted by liejunkie01
reply to
post by Under Water



I think the first thing that would happen is we would dissolve the USA and create the NAU (North American Union), merging canada and mexico with the usa.

I would definitely disagree with this statement. This is my(our) country and I think there are people that would agree that we will fight like our ancestors for the continuence of the United States of America. Our military generals are some of the most patriotic citizens and I have a hard time seeing them allowing that to happen. Break out the pitchforks and machetes it may get messy.

To the hell with Mexico and Canada uniting.

Not trying to offend people. This is only my opinion as a resident of the midwest USA. To the CIA member who is reading this...hello...


I totally agree. No offence taken either. Being neighbours is just fine.
Canada also doesn't want any part of becoming one with the US, or Mexico.
With our luck (citizens), they'd pick the banking system of the US, instead of the one that works.
That Federal Reserve system should go.


reply posted on 8-5-2011 @ 10:04 PM by marg6043
reply to post by ExCommando



Before the wealthy and the bank mafia goes down and take down US with it, they will leach the tax payer to death.

The already are doing it.


reply posted on 8-5-2011 @ 10:16 PM by g146541
reply to post by BanMePlz



Actually it would be a conglomeration of several things.
Let's start off at ground zero.
The Fed, if we do away with this we would save a huge chunk on our money.
Trade, Tariff's Etc., How can a piece of garbage made in china be cheaper than something made on US soil?
Greed is why, on the unions, corporations and even the workers.
The corporations want to pay the workers bottom dollar, the workers want top dollar, and the Unions Help balance,...At a price. Google "deal with the devil".
So companies have moved out of the US.
Enter the only industry that does manufacture here, Military equipment and weapons.
The only jobs left are military and we are in everyone elses affairs.
On the whole that's about it.
But if we could bring all of our boys home, some would start companies and we could start to manufacture here, making jobs for the Ex mil.
That's about how i see it.


reply posted on 8-5-2011 @ 10:25 PM by Ultraman2011
Originally posted by liejunkie01
reply to
post by Ultraman2011





If you wanted to join the rest of the civilized world, the least you could do is remove boarders and maybe work on a unified currency.



Can I ask which part of the "civilized world" are we talking about here. Sorry, unified currency does not sound good to me. But what do I know?


Lowering the border silliness is a given. There is so much time and money wasted. At the end of the day we should be able to come to a common acceptance on trade and commerce matters that would allow us to travel freely between the two countries. The currency thing is a bit more tricky but should be achievable over time. It doesn't affect our freedom any more than Greece was affected by joining the EEC. With one currency we can benefit from a unified economy like the EEC.
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