Florida gun deaths suspect named as Shawn Tyson

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes


Now lets follows the laws on the books and put this scum bag where he belongs. In a box under the ground.

Take a life give your life.

Sorry I dont care what he did if he was abused or his daddy beat him or not. Strap his ass in and fry the #er.

Make an example as you commit the crime and we fry your ass so all can watch.

We should all follol this case very closely and watch how the court system will give this guy a slap and he will be out in ten years.

The court system is a joke.

If you were to kill my family member. You would not be breathing.

And yes I would go to jail for life no doubt.

You know because I am a normal tax paying citizen. They will make a example out of me and not this scum bag.

SCUM BAG

I wish the UK would adopt the US gun laws. (yeah I said it!)

I'm not a huge man or a martial artist. I have a wife and 3 daughters and a son.
If a couple of hulking thugs came crashing through my front door in the middle of the night there is only one tool with which I could accuratley predict the outcome.
It is, of course, a gun. I couldn't dare to have the same confidence in a bat or knife, they are not equalisers.
They would have the choice of leaving very quickly or face a bullet. I don't care for the repurcussions of said action, the protection of my family is paramount and supercedes any consequences.

As an example; I was being bullied by a much larger kid at school. (a long time ago now) On this particular ocassion I happened to be holding my hockey stick. Out of frustration, I swung it at him. Now what do you think happened? He promptly caught it mid swing, disarmed me, then laughed so much he forgot to beat me up. I appreciate that as a child at school I would not have been carrying a gun, but it is a good example of how some tools just aren't up to the job.

I have never been burgled and I hope I never do. I have a baseball bat that I didn't buy for playing sports but I have very little confindence in its ability, in the narrow confines of my hallway.

P.S Can we please leave the US v's UK crap out of the thread, it only males you look silly and takes away all the credibilty of the rest of your posts.

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes
When will the USA get over its primitive, fearful gun-toting culture ?

Here we have two British tourists who went to the wrong side of town, and got shot dead, largely due to the primitive gun culture in the US.

There is nowhere in Britain where the possibility of being shot in the 'wrong part of town' is a serious consideration.

It's about time the USA entered the 21st century, and stopped the opportunity for these needless murders.

www.bbc.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

edit on 18-4-2011 by Sherlock Holmes because: Shocking grammatical error !

Yeah, I've gotta say this is the most bizzare blanket statement.

First, you prepose that the UK doesn't have a black market for arms. It does.

Secondly, this hasn't to do with people being licensed to hold weapons. So, they still must have aquired the gun by theft or the black market.

Thirdly, you class all responsible weapon holders into the same group of nimwhit criminals, when the statistics say that less licensed gun owners (much less) participate in illegal activity than illegal gun owners.

Fourth, you also prepose that if he hadn't a gun, he wouldn't have hurt the people he hurt. Had he not have had a gun, he might have used a knife, or a wire to strangle with... there are an uncountable amount of objects that can be used to kill some one with, lots just as easy as a bullet. So to think, well hey, had the US banned fire arms, this incident wouldn't have happened is just a logic leap of insurmountable odds.

I personally take insult, not because I'm a license holder, but because you choose to view the "American" people through a different lens than your own. The bottom line is people are all human, and all humans are a product of their circumstances.

It's easy to look from the outside and say thing like "The american people are responsible for their country being out of control" when you have data that the people of this country simply don't get here. The same can be said for UK's big brother, requiring camera's in ones home if you have a child simply because you have had a prior domestic dispute case is counter to all "free nation" beliefs.

We could just as easily point the finger back at you, and say that the UK is responsible for the loss of freedoms it's people have received.

The real fact of the matter, is, government is government. They all lie to their people to get what they wish. People are suceptible to lies, this is human nature. To take any stance and say "Any people are less than any other people" is at minimum mildly insulting.

UK is violent crime capital of Europe

The United Kingdom is the violent crime capital of Europe and has one of the highest rates of violence in the world, worse even than America, according to new research.

Telegraph

Know your facts man... know your facts. Primitive? Hardly. Criminals are criminals, if not guns, then stones, if not stones, then fists.

If guns kill people - then pencils cause mis-spelled words.

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes

Florida gun deaths suspect named as Shawn Tyson

www.bbc.co.uk

A 16-year-old boy charged with the murders of two British holidaymakers in Florida has been named by detectives.

Shawn Tyson is due in court later charged with murdering James Kouzaris, 24, from Northampton, and James Cooper, 25, of Warwick.

The friends were found shot dead 50ft from each other in a street in the city of Sarasota early on Saturday.

(visit the link for the full news article)

What does any of this nonsense have to do with topics relevant to ATS? Go post this garbage on CNN.com

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes


I am not for gun control
but at the same time look at Canada
people don't walk around with guns and there is less crime in Canada than the U.S.

It is a different place though

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by Sherlock Holmes

 

I was hoping you would say that. Obviously no one is cowering, and you are trying to elicit an emotional response, but instead I give you a very articulate piece about how the gun is the only tool that was ever a complete equalizer, and is responsible for the best form of "civilization."

The Gun is Civilization by Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret)

Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of either convincing me via argument, or force me to do your bidding under threat of force. Every human interaction falls into one of those two categories, without exception. Reason or force, that’s it.

By Maj. L. Caudill USM C (Ret)

A Source

Jarheads are not all the knuckle draggers many would believe.

Originally posted by Ewok_Boba
What does any of this nonsense have to do with topics relevant to ATS? Go post this garbage on CNN.com

Two unarmed British men have been shot dead in a country which is notorious for its violence and inherent gun culture.

It is relevant to ATS, because it is yet another example of the primitive and backward-ass laws in the US, regarding guns.

Yet many Americans will not give this issue critical thought, despite the fact that innocent people are dieing daily because of their permissiveness towards firearms.

It's not the Wild West anymore !

reply to post by ModernAcademia


There isn't "less" crime in Canada, it just seems that way. When you look at crime per population, Canada is #6, and the U.S. isn't in the top 10.

Check out This Post from earlier.

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes

Originally posted by butcherguy
I wonder when those folks in the UK will give up their violent soccer match riots?

From the videos I've seen of those affairs, itt is a darn good thing that they don't let them have guns over there. They aren't responsible enough to be in charge of their own fists and feet.

Please provide me with some examples of lethal hooliganism in English ''soccer''

games.

To my knowledge, nobody has ever been shot at an English football match.

Still, keep sipping that koolaid...

Congratulations! You win a prize.

itt is a darn good thing that they don't let them have guns over there. They aren't responsible enough to be in charge of their own fists and feet.

I think I covered the part about shootings at soccer matches with my above quote.

Whatever, if you want to deny violence in your own country, feel free. We know that it is there.

Like I said, if you had access to guns, your 'hooligans' (we call them scum, or trash) would show you how nice we are on this side of the pond.

Originally posted by descartes90

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by descartes90

 

It is impossible to "prove' how many crimes they have averted. It is easy when you have to shoot someone, but how do you measure the conversations criminals have before choosing which house to rob? How do you measure the change in attitude one has when carrying a gun? How do you measure eye contact, or confident stride?

How about this...............

How do you even know this is real? I mean, I wouldn't doubt it, but some thugs will rob no matter what danger there is. especially if they are having a withdrawal

I believe you missed the point. The point is by removing guns by law, the people who keep guns now KNOW they have an advantage. This is the exact reason why the UK crime rates rised when they banned firearms.

If I have a gun, and you don't, and I need money, I can rob you safely(relatively*).


If you don't understand that concept, I don't know what else to do.

*Relative to the safety rates if potential victims have guns as well.

Originally posted by gncnew
Know your facts man... know your facts. Primitive? Hardly. Criminals are criminals, if not guns, then stones, if not stones, then fists.

If guns kill people - then pencils cause mis-spelled words.

I do know my facts.

Crime statistics are collated differently between regions, let alone countries, so to suggest that Britain is ''the most violent country in Europe'' is laughable.

Guns are the most lethal weapon in common, everyday use, and they are a cowardly, impersonal weapon.

Anyone can pull a trigger from ten yards away, yet it takes a certain kind of person to stick a knife into somebody else.

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes

Two unarmed British men have been shot dead in a country which is notorious for its violence and inherent gun culture.

And, from some of the earlier posts, it seems very likely they were shot dead because of the level of acceptable violence in their own country. If they were drunk, rowdy, going through a rough neighborhood, kicking cars and causing ruckus in the middle of the night, it might be acceptable in the UK, but it gets you shot in the US.

So, which culture was responsible for their death? Which culture seems more civilized? The one where that type of behavior is the norm? Or the one where it is unusual, and seen as a violent threat warranting force to stop it? (Hypothetical question, because you are from your culture and I am from mine. It is doubtful we will agree.)

Edit to add: My wife was welcomed to Ireland within her first hour of arrival, by a drunken, naked man, running out of one bar, waving a flag, and running down the middle of the street to the next bar, LOL! A few minutes later, that bar erupted into a fight on the street. Welcome to Ireland, LOL!

We don't have soccer riots in the US. We don't have roving gangs of violent teenagers. Violent crimes are much less frequent here in the US than they are in other countries. They are less frequent, because everyone has a healthy respect and fear of one another. We don't go around vandalizing, threatening, and harassing one another, because it could result in a shooting death, just like in this case.

It is sad for the two dead fellows, and the guy that is going to wind up in prison. Perhaps it was just a cultural misunderstanding. We are not comparing apples to apples here.

Originally posted by descartes90

Originally posted by Skewed
So, it is ok for the rights of many to be infringed upon for the actions of a few?

If it SAVES LIVES, yes, in some cases.

Hmmm, a quote comes to mind:

Those who would trade freedom for security will have neither

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes

Anyone can pull a trigger from ten yards away, yet it takes a certain kind of person to stick a knife into somebody else.

The one thing you have said several times that I can agree with is this quote.

Guns are less personal, and drive-by shootings are cowardly. Also, guns often have unintended consequences when they ricochet or "spray" and hit innocent bystanders. There is an added danger from guns that knives and other weapons do not have. It does take a special kind of brutal criminal to hurt someone up close and personal with their hands or a knife. Guns empower the cowardly criminals to cause harm that they wouldn't normally be capable of.

In this single point, you are absolutely correct.

Still, the guns in the hands of citizens are a huge deterrent, and a huge equalizing force, and they are responsible for more good than bad. I still support the right of every citizen to possess, and carry a gun.

In fact, I think if we had even more citizens carrying guns, we would have even less crime. It is still a very small percentage of people that actually have their weapons on their person at all times. The vast majority of violent crimes still go unopposed. If more people were arming themselves, perhaps we could stop some of these drive-bys and cowardly killings. We need MORE guns in the hands of the law-abiding, responsible public.

I like to quote Sammy "the Bull" Gravano. In case people do not know who he is, he was part of the Gambino crime family and hitman.

After arrested, he made the comment regarding gun control and he said.

"Gun control? It's the best thing you can do for crooks and gangsters. I want you to have nothing. If I'm a bad guy, I'm always gonna have a gun. Safety locks? You will pull the trigger with a lock on, and I'll pull the trigger. We'll see who wins." — Sammy "the Bull" Gravano

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes


The violent crime issue in the United States is more a cultural and economic issue than it is a gun rights issue. Roughly a third of all US homicides, around 5-6,000 per year, do not even involve the use of a firearm. That alone should prove what others have said. Firearms are not the underlying cause of crime, and that if you remove them from the equation, people will simply find another means to commit the act.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
In case you didn't know, and this has been posted dozens of times, in YOUR country AFTER guns were banned, crimes and even crimes with guns INCREASED in frequency... But hey, keep swimming in that kool aid of ignorance some people seem to love...

The most violent country in Europe: Britain is also worse than South Africa and U.S.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/ec48b7553e41.jpg[/atsimg]

Ummm....
Me thinks that this list sucks
I mean come on.....

You are comparing countries with buckets and buckets of unreported crimes with first world nations.
Listen

is estimated that a woman born in South Africa has a greater chance of being raped than learning how to read.

en.wikipedia.org...

Is the above the same for Britain?

You go to areas in Brownsville and see how many unreported crimes there are there as well that go on not daily but hourly.

All that I am saying is that that list sucks balls!

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Ok, sure there are unreported crimes in many countries, but the list should be reliable when comparing the UK, Canada, France, the US, etc.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
There isn't "less" crime in Canada, it just seems that way. When you look at crime per population, Canada is #6, and the U.S. isn't in the top 10.

Check out This Post from earlier.

It would think that how it seems is greater than stats
There are places in the U.S. where you don't even see cops, there aren't any such places in Canada

That link showing that post you linked is comparing apples and oranges, countries with more unreported crimes than crimes vs. countries with better crime reporting systems.

I've been in some of the craziest places in the U.S. and there's a crime happening almost every second.

There is a bigger amicable relationship between criminal organizations in the U.S. and cops than in Canada for example, there's so many other things I could also mention that highlights this apples and oranges comparing.

That list is next to useless.