Florida gun deaths suspect named as Shawn Tyson

reply to post by descartes90


It is impossible to "prove' how many crimes they have averted. It is easy when you have to shoot someone, but how do you measure the conversations criminals have before choosing which house to rob? How do you measure the change in attitude one has when carrying a gun? How do you measure eye contact, or confident stride?

How about this...............

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by descartes90

 

It is impossible to "prove' how many crimes they have averted. It is easy when you have to shoot someone, but how do you measure the conversations criminals have before choosing which house to rob? How do you measure the change in attitude one has when carrying a gun? How do you measure eye contact, or confident stride?

How about this...............

How do you even know this is real? I mean, I wouldn't doubt it, but some thugs will rob no matter what danger there is. especially if they are having a withdrawal

reply to post by getreadyalready


OK, the other link was kind of funny, it isn't real, it is an ad, but it does make a good point. Here is a real account of an inteview with a criminal

Link

There are probably some polls or scientifical studies of decision making criminals go through, and I guarantee that facing an armed victim is a deterrent that is hard to capture in statistics.

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes
When will the USA get over its primitive, fearful gun-toting culture ?

Here we have two British tourists who went to the wrong side of town, and got shot dead, largely due to the primitive gun culture in the US.

There is nowhere in Britain where the possibility of being shot in the 'wrong part of town' is a serious consideration.

It's about time the USA entered the 21st century, and stopped the opportunity for these needless murders.

www.bbc.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

edit on 18-4-2011 by Sherlock Holmes because: Shocking grammatical error !

First of all, this is absolutely horrible that this happened, and my heart goes out to the families of the victims.
But the laws in this country are in place for responsible gun owners, people use them for hunting, or for protection from punks like this. Do you think this punk bought his gun from a gun broker, got a permit, and went through a gun safety course? No, he bought it on the streets, from other punks.

It's really easy for Non-Americans to sit on their high horses and call names... they don't live here, and certainly don't inhabit the same reality we do.

Firstly, we share the border with a country filled with some of the most violent, bloody, and well armed drug cartels on the entire planet. American citizens living in the Southwest US literally have a WAR going on miles away at the border and beyond. Drugs, guns, and violence come streaming across the border and back, and enacting gun laws will do NOTHING, I repeat NOTHING to change this. Criminals will still have open access to firearms, and they will terrorize the populus. In fact, they already are terrorizing the populus... the only people that are safe in the Southwestern United States, are the ones that have guns to defend themselves. By the time the police get there, you'll not only be dead, you'll be cold.

I live in Southern California, and there have been FIVE home invasion robberies in my area in the last year, two of which resulted in the deaths of the homeowners, one of which resulted in the rape of residents, and one of which resulted in loss of property. Notice that only adds up to four... the ONLY property out of the five that had no adverse effect from the home invasion was the one that kept a shotgun by the bedside. The robbery was over before it even started.

You can call me "primitive" all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that I won't stand by and let my beautiful wife be raped in front of my face while I'm stabbed or shot to death. I guess you brits are just fine with that, though. I for one care enough about my family to make sure I am absolutely capable of defending them to the best of my legal ability, against even the strongest threats.

We Americans are willing to stand and defend our ground against threats to our homes and families... you brits get to cower in a closet and cry to yourselves while you wait for the police to arrive... Who's the coward again?

My father in law and brother in law are both police officers, and neither would even think of having let their daughter/sister live with some pansy that is afraid to own guns and defend his family. People like that DISGUST me. Being a MAN is about having the option to use extreme force, and only doing so when necessary... not about stripping yourself of the option to use force so you can hide in a corner and call yourself "civilized".

reply to post by iandh

We Americans are willing to stand and defend our ground against threats to our homes and families... you brits get to cower in a closet and cry to yourselves while you wait for the police to arrive... Who's the coward again?

Stupid comment!........this has nothing to do with guns, I actually agree with Americans right to bear arms, but to label nations that do not have the same laws as you as "cowards" that cower in closets is.....frankly.....insulting!

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by descartes90

 

I don't know if any statistics exist about bringing a knife to a gun fight, but I think the cliche kind of speaks for itself.

Unless, of course, the twenty one foot rule is in affect.

Originally posted by Argyll
reply to post by iandh

 

We Americans are willing to stand and defend our ground against threats to our homes and families... you brits get to cower in a closet and cry to yourselves while you wait for the police to arrive... Who's the coward again?

Stupid comment!........this has nothing to do with guns, I actually agree with Americans right to bear arms, but to label nations that do not have the same laws as you as "cowards" that cower in closets is.....frankly.....insulting!

agreed.
there is absolutely no reason for remarks like this.
insulting the British is, in no way, constructive to the argument regarding gun laws. the position of insults is by far the easiest and weakest way to approach a dialogue, regardless of position.

I am done with this topic though, guns are basically a religious matter to the people who think there should be no regulation.

reply to post by Argyll


My comments were directed at a specific British poster, but I figured that since he grouped all American gun owners into the category of "primitive", that I'd return the favor with my comments.

Anyone who fails to see the reason I did that, has no right to criticize my posts.

edit: No matter what you type on the internet, and no matter what the reasoning is behind it, someone will still see fit to misinterpret and become offended. In case the above explanation wasn't clear enough, I don't actually think all Brits are cowards... I was only offering a counterpoint to a specific poster, using the exact same logic that he was arguing his point with. It's obvious he thinks in broad generalities, so why should I not offer a counterpoint in the same manner, especially when I made it obvious in at least two places in my post, the specific member the comments were intended for?

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes
When will the USA get over its primitive, fearful gun-toting culture ?

Here we have two British tourists who went to the wrong side of town, and got shot dead, largely due to the primitive gun culture in the US.

There is nowhere in Britain where the possibility of being shot in the 'wrong part of town' is a serious consideration.

It's about time the USA entered the 21st century, and stopped the opportunity for these needless murders.

www.bbc.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

edit on 18-4-2011 by Sherlock Holmes because: Shocking grammatical error !

Most large cities of the world these days have entire sections where those in the know NEVER venture. Even the police leave those areas largely untouched, given the area over to those that control it whether the wapons of choice are guns, knives or cobblestones.

Get off your high horse. The time will come when you will wish you had a gun in jolly old England.

reply to post by Lemon.Fresh


The words right outta my mouth.

Accidentally wandering over to the "bad" side of a city anywhere can result in you getting killed.

reply to post by getreadyalready


Exactly, couldn't have said it any better.

Wish members could give an applause.

reply to post by Lemon.Fresh


Gun isn't a bad thing, if used for the right reasons. Wouldn't guns make it a lot easier for an uprising? Overthrowing the government that's been screwing us? Taking down the damn wallstreet? Banks? I'm sure Che Guevara would've loved it.

Anything powerful can be used for good or evil.

Hey OP, I haven't read a single post on this thread.

I have a question - Do you think the thugs that did this obtained the gun(s) legally ?

Gun control isn't about guns....it's about control.

Maybe Brits, French, Belgians, and Dutch can't shoot worth a ****.

Come to think of it, the last two world wars weren't going too well for them until the shooters of the US came and started running up scores.

After all, a disarmed nation can't possibly be worth a **** with firearms.

Looking through the glass at a cake doesn't make you a baker.

I don't think we'll be going back and doing the heavy lifting again.

reply to post by descartes90


that is by far the dumbest # i ever heard

bottom line criminals have guns a damn good reason for non criminals too have one


way i see it people from Britain have no say about OUR countrys gun laws


sucks about the two guys though

OPs Knee-jerk reaction was so intense, I think I could hear his legs snapping all the way over here.

I mean, surely banning guns will TOTALLY work. I mean. Banning alcohol back in the day TOTALLY worked, and since banning Pot, NOBODY has pot! What a great world we live in.

Moron.

I live right down the road from there. Funny I just learned of this from ATS though.

Sarasota is one of the easiest places for criminals to prey on tourists.

MLK is bad and Van Whezel (sp) is on the end of it the road. Right down the 41 is ringling school of arts as well. So they are both in between the 'ghetto." Not to mention, adjacent to MLK is Main st, a very lively tourst/artist/crafts shopping area. They actually hold a flea market and close down the road every weekend as well and hold yearly an array of celebrations such as the "pineapple" drop (new years), parades, Christmas, etc. Matter of fact Sesta Key beach was voted once again as #1 beach in the country. The major problem in the area is that (from a tourists perspective) it's all tourist attractions, but RIGHT around the corner are struggling families, criminals, prositutes, and the homeless have no place to stay (law). So, it puts the area into a very stressful situation while the economy tanks.

If anyone wants to know more about the area let me know. ...It's still a beautiful place to live.

BTW. To use this horrible account as an Anti-gun propaganda is arguable, as if the tourist were to be allowed to protect themselves, they could have. They didn't have guns and the bad guy did. It's not guns that kill people, it's the nutballs who want to shoot the gun AT people that kill people. I've had a gun ever since I was old enough, never once fired upon anyone. An that is even considering people breaking into my yard stealing stuff. They get the bat treatment instead.

At least they have a chance with my approach.

Its very simple. You take away the right for a concealed weapon and all the law obiding citizens will be forced to surrender them. Do ppl honestly think that the kind of ppl that do commit gun crimes would do the same? Isn't a mojority of the guns used in these crimes stolen anyhow? or hard to trace and rarely just baughten( like an honest american would) because of the ease to trace their owners?