Overpopulation? Elitest Propaganda and Damned Lies Lies Lies!

We are overpopulated,
do you know how much pesticides and chemicals are needed to cultivate some 2000 m^2 arable land? Not to mention thje oil needed for the machinery to prepare the land, and that needed to irrigate it?
So we have pollution.
Why are genetically modified plants a necessity? Because with geniune food it is extremely difficult to produce enough. You prpbably think it is enough to plant and irrigate and wait there for the miracle to happen, but it is not.

The same goes for cattle, hormones are injected or given with food to accelerate growth so you can have your tables full of variuos types of "meat" if we can still call it that.

Floating farms in the sea, yes that is some really nice fantasy, but just that, fantasy.
go there in the field and watch what it takes to grow food, be it animal or vegetal, make some calculations and then come here and still have this unexplainable urge to bash the "elite" whatever this "elite" is.

Stop playing Farmville, unless you understand that real life farming is a bit different.

Another factor is that population growth needs to grow in accordance with economic development. This rule is violated during population explosions in developing countries, leading to poverty and even reverse of development towards regression in some.

This thread is dildos.

reply to post by spikey


S&F&

This is one horse that definitely needs to be flogged.

I don’t doubt that we can accommodate population growth through innovative use of science and technology, but I think that is an “elitist propaganda” agenda in its own right. It fails to acknowledge reality. It is not elitist to acknowledge reality.

It’s great that someone can demonstrate a hydroponics lettuce factory, but when they fail to actually acknowledge that a billion people have no access to clean – or enough – water it’s a bit of a lame message.

The challenge facing the world today – and the reality – is that the earth’s population is too becoming unmanageable and this is leading to worsening conditions, whether this is more and worse urban slums, reduced access to clean water or just your simple environmental destruction to feed more people.

Increased population is a downward cycle for much of the world’s population. For us in the (so called) first world, we are fat and can feed ourselves – or at least could do so if push came to shove. We could deploy new technologies, but to what end? The production of vat-grown, homogenous drivel, or vertical farms maintained by scientists who would not know what a Foxwhelp apple was if it jumped up and bit him on the arsse. In the rest of the world increased population is just a way of piling on more problems, hardship and environmental destruction.

This is not the “elitist propaganda”, it is the reality.

Regards

Originally posted by Maslo

Originally posted by davidgrouchy
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/61789ddf6372.jpg[/atsimg]

It's called population density.

The overpopulation myth is a myth.

The reason no one in the cities believes this is because they live in the cities.

David Grouchy

But overpopulation is not about population density at all. It is about total population in relation to available resources.

...

It is all about available resources per person. But armchair experts do not know this, and then we get such [color=gold]naive threads like this..

Naive?

I believe that is the most insulting thing you have ever said to me.
And where is your research, your facts, your charts, and your evidence.

Name calling, slander, and insinuation are not evidence of anything. Go back to watching TV.


David Grouchy

There is nothing to debate,

the facts are in.

Population explains everything.
The big economic disasters,
our future, everything.

Timestop 1:22 - 1:43



Everything else is missinformation.
All this smoke and mirrors about the economy
comes down to one thing and one thing only and it's
the most politically incorrect thing to talk about in the US.

Birth control and abortions.
It ramped up in the 60's,
45 years later the
economy tanks.


David Grouchy

reply to post by davidgrouchy


Dont take in as an insult, just calling a spade a spade. Overpopulation and high population density are different things.

reply to post by davidgrouchy

Birth control and abortions. It ramped up in the 60's, 45 years later the economy tanks.

Yeah, and in the meantime, population increased quite a bit. That theory does not make much sense.

Hey!
This is my first post on ATS. I just wanted to say thanks for this thread.

Even if you dont have all the facts right, even if counter-arguments exist, I absolutely agree with your logic and mentality on this issue.

Because, even if the planet was overpopulated, we should be researching and developing ways to deal with that in a creative way not wishing that people cease to exist or, even worse, rendering parts of the planet uninhabitable..

There are so many things that can be said on this issue but I just want to say thanks for staying positive and for valueing human life in these tough times

GG

Originally posted by Maslo

Birth control and abortions. It ramped up in the 60's, 45 years later the economy tanks.

Yeah, and in the meantime, population increased quite a bit. That theory does not make much sense.

Proving you didn't even look at the video.

Ten seconds in
I shows how this is hidden by imigration.

Timestop 0:10 - 0:20

I'm done arguing with another TV brain.


David Grouchy

Originally posted by Maslo
reply to post by davidgrouchy

 

Dont take in as an insult, just calling a spade a spade. Overpopulation and high population density are different things.

Yes they are different things.

High population density is true, and can cause problems.

Overpopulation is a myth and a myth used as a tool.

your ideas are beautiful. they are. i gave you a S & F but they're not realistic. as others before me have clearly stated, there are too many other factors that make the over population idea somewhat true. there really are too many people. and humans breed like no ones business.

these ideas will be great after the next great destruction. maybe the future survivors will use these strategies. they are brilliant.

one strategy i hope the future survivors use::: CONDOMS! i don't know aboiut the 500 million thing but i do think there is a critical mass point with the population. i don't think anyone should chose who lives and who dies. haha...i don't think anyone will. i think TPTB would love to have their way but i've got a feeling that mama's gonna make the decisions. chances are...the final roster has already been signed off on.

but these are beautiful ideas that i believe to be true.

but first...to get rid of some of these goshdarned ticks...

Sorry OP but I have to strongly disagree. I don't want to live in a world where it's difficult to find expanses of unspoilt wilderness. I don't want humans to make any more of an impact on the planet than we already have. We are overpopulated, but I don't condone extreme measures to solve it - just common sense and a harmonious relationship with nature.

There's a reason why people cluster in cities. It's called efficiency. Spread everybody out and it would cost a fortune to bring them services we now need in a modern life.

The basic truth of the matter is we just don't know the optimum number of people that the Earth can support. Not the maximum number, but the optimum, where everybody has a chance live long and prosper. And now, rather than later, would be a good time to find that out, before we get past that point and people have to starve by the millions. As it is, millions of people can die and it won't even put a dent in our growth rate. That's something to think about. We almost can't kill people fast enough for it to make a difference.

If you look at things only from a technological point of view, maybe it makes sense that we can easily double Earth's population (it won't take very long). But technology is unfortunately far too blind to politics and religion and other philosophies that talk about the quality and value of an individual's life, not just the amount of space they take up or the volume of air they breathe. And those aren't factors that can be ignored.

Other factors that can't be ignored are those of unforeseen calamity. A stray blight on soybeans that can't be stopped, a string of bad winters or summers, volcanoes, asteroid impacts, sunspots, etc. If we run just at the edge of tolerance all the time, we won't have enough reserves for something unexpected when it comes along.

So the way I see it, let's use our fancy technology to put the brakes on the population growth for a while until we get a handle on the figures and see just what we can do.

Otherwise, when does it stop? When we're all standing on each other's shoulders? Someday, we're going to have to gain control. And like I said, better sooner than later.

reply to post by spikey


Let's see. We have how many wars in progress as we speak? At seven billion people?

My money says that WWIII will hit at ten billion people.

You won't see 14 billion.

reply to post by Cythraul


It's even going to get difficult to find space for underground bunkers. How fast can you dig? Some of the best underground bunkers have swimming pools. And even bowling alleys, not to forget mentioning the cafeteria with a hundred years' supply of gourmet food.

But there's just not that much underground room for comparable bunkers, I hear.

Nope. Ten billion will be the breaking point. If not before that.

reply to post by Maslo


Automation is already taking over most of the jobs. By the year 2050, when the world's population is predicted to hit ten billion, automation will have put even the Chinese and Indian workers out to pasture. People will have nothing to do with themselves but wait for some kind of subsistence check from their governments. Kind of sounds like Libya, don't it?

I'm sorry but if you don't believe we're overpopulated, you're living in denial. I suggest you "oh so anti elitists" to go outside every now and then and get a sense of how the world works.

reply to post by unityemissions


Thank You...I was reading through the posts and thought I was gonna be the only one to say it....

There must be a balance of things...AND YES...we COULD support more if we had all of these clean energy items in place, these food systems in place, and all lived in small places, and owned no property. Do you have sources of where any scientists have said that we (earth) can support more than 900 billion people? Because there are plenty out there that says we can't. There are not huge floating food farms all over the place and such. You cant just drink any water. You need clean water to drink....much of our water we continue to contaminate.

To those of you who do not think overpopulation is a problem....do you think there is infinite room? How many people is too many in your opinion? If the earth doubled it's population by next year...could we survive? What number is your tipping point or do you not think one exists?

While attending a University in 1974, I had a Professor who went on almost daily rants about overpopulation and the impending depletion of resources. He predicted that Global Cooling would lead to the death of most plant life by now and that mass starvation would occur due to overpopulation a decade or so ago. He was not alone in those ideas.

He also taught that the oil would be completely gone by 2014 and that materials to fuel nuclear reactors would already be gone by now. He was not alone in those idea's either. All of this was taught as fact, in the same way the current tools of fear are being taught now.

The truth of it? There is more standing timber now than when Europeans first arrived. Even though the population has risen dramatically, there is plenty of food and those who are hungry are that way due to political issues and governments denying them food to control them. We now know that between Oil, Natural Gas and Oil Shale we have hundreds of years of supplies still in the ground.

In the U.S. and much of the Western World, there would be zero population growth were it not for Immigrants. The more educated and technologically advanced a society is, the less it procreates. In India for instance the family sizes are so large to provide labor to survive. We saw the same in the U.S. a hundred or more years ago.

The answer to any population problem seems to be education and technology. Overpopulation only exists in societies that are still not advanced due to radical religious beliefs or controlling governments withholding food and resources as a tool of control.

All of the above is quite factual and reasonable, but those radicals who buy into the extremists views don't look at reality and facts. Facts like we are ourselves animals and anything we do is natural for our Species. Nothing we do is actually unnatural. We eat meat because we evolved to eat meat just like our also Omnivorous cousins the Great Apes.

Those of you old enough might recall that the Progressive, Radicals in the Science Community hid the fact that all Great Apes eat meat and will when given the chance choose meat over anything else. Even now that the cat is out of the bag on that one, they turn to other methods to make us feel somehow dirty for eating our natural diet. They deny in fact we are ourselves animals and our behavior is natural for our Species. Our intelligence and self awareness are our survival tools, just as surely as are a Lion's claws and massive strength.

We need to get the radicals out of our governments and universities and tackle our problems in rational ways. There is where the problem lies. A relatively tiny number of radicals have taken over our education system and instead of teaching, they now indoctrinate. They are the same now as they were 40 years ago. Their goal is to take control of everyone and everything and dictate to everyone else, every aspect of their lives.

Their leaders hop around the world in their private jets and after exiting their Limo's or SUV's with their cadre of servants and admirers, they preach conservation and population control. They preach that we should all drive dangerous tin cans around and ride bikes to work, then hop back into their private jet and move on to the next location, where they happily get into their latest SUV or Limo, ignoring what they preach. They rely on followers carefully brainwashed in schools they would never allow their own children to attend. They attend the finest universities even though their academics are below standard, gaining entrance with bribes from their rich elitists families.

They don't need to spread propaganda as they have now brainwashed a couple of generations of puppets who parrot what they say, never bothering to notice their leaders are living in luxury and living exactly how they wish, whole demanding everyone else go without.