Aliens have not contacted us, therefore theres nothing to disclose

crop circles are made because certain patterns, pictures, colors, all generate a frequency and vibration. the crop circles put out energy towards the earth. why are they made? simple...humanity is destroying earth and they come down and make them to heal the damage that has been done. those arent necessarily UFO's per se, but more or so a pure spirit from another dimension. or 2 of them at least

Originally posted by Welfhard
reply to post by KrypticCriminal

 

Some of us have to make do with dialup.

No, you don't. Get yourself one of these:
PCI Wireless Network Card $15.98
Then you can hack into your neighbor's wireless connections. Windows would do this, but Linux can. Many are getting free internet right now, and soon free Wifi will be available for everyone. Just a matter of time.

reply to post by KrypticCriminal

He has a hypothesis actually (I wish people would learn the difference) that assumes that the aliens, be they more or less advanced than us, would be in the same position that we are: really lonely in space. They'd probably look for other civilizations' communications before setting out towards a particular star system. In such a case, the odds of a civilization being close enough to detect our signals and travel at such speeds to get here now are slim to none.

If they're here just because they're exploring, it means its a HUGE coincidence that they should get here as we take our first steps in space. Odds are again slim to none.

If you make the assumption that there is life elsewhere in the universe (and I think we all agree that's a fair assumption to make) and make the assumption that on rare instances intelligence evolved, then the aboce reasoning requires nothing else apart from what we all ready know from physics.

Positing any other "theories" like that they can travel at luminal or superluminal speeds is extra assumptions that we've no reason to make, so says Occam.

OP's hypothesis is our best guess based on what we know of the universe. Testing such a hypothesis means going to Mars and Europa, etc., and looking for signs of life and conditions favouring life as well as the SETI project.

It's unlikely we'll learn anything more about ETs in the near future.

the whole speed of light thing is NOT a good argument.

i am sure 200 years ago, most people thought it was ridiculous to think we would ever have airplanes. our knowledge of physics is still FAR from complete.

First of all there is plenty of evidence that ET's are here and have been for some time. Type UFO into youtube. The footage in which a light descends on a building in Jerusalem, hovers for a moment and then accelerates straight up at a speed that is not possible with anything human made, is particularly convincing especially when you consider this isn’t behaviour exhibited by any natural phenomenon.

Also what ever you have to say about the disclosure project it produced at least twenty credible witnesses that have confirmed government knowledge of UFO's, ET's and ET technology. To say that all of these witnesses were taking part in some sort of hoax is harder to believe then the presence of UFO's. With a little checking you can confirm most of their credentials yourself.

Secondly to infer that extra terrestrials are not present in local space because our technology has failed to detect or contact extra terrestrials is making the huge assumption that our technology is capable of such a thing and that ETs want to communicate with us.

Lastly I would like to point out that its possible the reason you heard about the false ET signal is because it was false. Acording to the witness testimony ET tech has been apropriated by powerfull corporations through their involvment in black projects. They don't want you to know about the presence of ETs because there is a cold war type situation that exists between the various consortiums whom have developed ET Tech and as a result they are not ready to use it against you yet.

I love skeptics. I really do. Now I personally believe something is going on involving Alien life. Maybe from another planet or even another dimension but SOMETHING is going on. My motto is ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE. But most of the skeptics on this site just spout nonsense and claim everything to be a hoax without backing up that assertion. The overwhelming amount of eyewitness testimony, in my opinion, makes it utterly dumbfounding that anyone could say that there isnt something going on. Every video that is posted on youtube is not real, that I admit, there are alot of attention seekers out there and they overshadow the credible witnesses. The "standard" response to any video for a skeptic is "Thats obviously CGI" or some other unsupported blathering. If its so obvious then please explain, we are not all geniuses of video manipulation like you all are. I have reason to believe, yet I prefer to research things on my own and form my own opinion. The field I work in I tend to come in contact with alot of military personnel, particularly those that attend to sensitive radio and sonar equipment. The stories I have heard from VERY credible sources leaves me to believe that the "Believers" may be on to something here. Yet I await "true" evidence. The sad part is if it does come it will more than likely be labeled a HOAX or the magic of CGI and it will be swept under the rug. The skeptics would find a way to TRY to debunk aliens landing on the white house lawn if they could. Seems to me there are alot of people that are close minded to the fact that we are not alone. ABSENCE OF PROOF IS NOT PROOF OF ABSENCE.

reply to post by autowrench


It's been demonstrated that a few men can make an intricate crop circle over night. It's not hard. And that video is a hoax. The guy who made it has been in documentaries on the subject.

reply to post by Welfhard


Ever hear of disinformation?

i could easily let my profiles signature speak for me but....

i think your post was a necessary step in your own personal journey for what actually is going on. dont be upset that many people before you have come to this point and have seen the error in its logic. but keep up the questioning.

reply to post by TheIrishJihad


Ever hear of video editing software and people faking stuff to make money. Are you telling me this can't be the case?

Originally posted by Welfhard
OP's hypothesis is our best guess based on what we know of the universe. Testing such a hypothesis means going to Mars and Europa, etc., and looking for signs of life and conditions favouring life as well as the SETI project.

You see .. here is where I disagree. The OP's hypothesis is HIS best guess based on what HE and YOU know of the universe - not WE.

What I mean is that not everyone has the same knowledge level about UFOs and ETs - some people have researched much more than the OP on this topic with evidence to backup THEIR theories and perspectives. Just because you have the same level of knowledge as the OP and agree with his view - does not mean other people's views are not AS valid.

If you do more research on UFOs and ETs and ancient aliens, perhaps your view about this topic will change.

Add: Basically, you are assuming that everyone's knowledge of the universe, UFOs, and ETs are the same thus they should share the same logic. But that is simply not true. Everyone's got different levels of knowledge - some more some less - and everyone's got different logic as well. You cannot say that just because you agree with the OP so THAT is the truth or the best assumption.

In other words, I don't think the OP and you have enough knowledge on this topic to make such strong assumptions and claims. Sure you can do it but that does not make you correct.

Originally posted by andre18


Sorry you're right, I just presumed because you're for the belief that aliens have contacted the government, that you'd believe those aliens are the greys.....

Urgh, you're jumping to conclusions again.

I don't believe the government has been contacted. I think if aliens exist and have visited Earth, the government knows as much about them as the public does; that is, they know nothing.

Your point is meaningless. So what if they are, because my point is those aliens you are now suggesting may appear to be flesh and bone but aren't, are still not going to be the greys that everyone seems to believe they are - because they greys conspiracy originated from Roswell so if you don't support Roswell then you there's no reason to defend the grey alien belief.

Does it matter what other people seem to believe they are? It seems to me that the only thing that matters is if these aliens people claim to see actually look like the alleged greys. What people believe about them is irrelevant.

And FYI, the grey mythos may have started with Roswell, but it never actually ended there. It is not the only source of the grey mythology.

Originally posted by Welfhard
reply to post by KrypticCriminal

 

He has a hypothesis actually (I wish people would learn the difference) that assumes that the aliens, be they more or less advanced than us, would be in the same position that we are: really lonely in space. They'd probably look for other civilizations' communications before setting out towards a particular star system. In such a case, the odds of a civilization being close enough to detect our signals and travel at such speeds to get here now are slim to none.

If they're here just because they're exploring, it means its a HUGE coincidence that they should get here as we take our first steps in space. Odds are again slim to none.

If you make the assumption that there is life elsewhere in the universe (and I think we all agree that's a fair assumption to make) and make the assumption that on rare instances intelligence evolved, then the aboce reasoning requires nothing else apart from what we all ready know from physics.

Positing any other "theories" like that they can travel at luminal or superluminal speeds is extra assumptions that we've no reason to make, so says Occam.

OP's hypothesis is our best guess based on what we know of the universe. Testing such a hypothesis means going to Mars and Europa, etc., and looking for signs of life and conditions favouring life as well as the SETI project.

It's unlikely we'll learn anything more about ETs in the near future.

Call it what you want.

Its still based on too many assumptions. I never had a problem with fact that he used current scientific knowlege to base it on. I have a problem with him thinking he's right on everything he's said. Leaving no room for other possibilitys.

Like i said, ive offered a lot of counter arguments that are also based on our current grasp of science. Can i now presume you support them and... like i also said. Just because science cant concieve of something does'nt make impossible. History is littered with things that science did'nt deem to be possible at one point.

So it appears we reached an impass. Your not willing to stretch to anything beyond what our current science can explain. Where as i am open to it.

Were just going to have to agree to disagree.

Originally posted by Gazrok

Your only evidence is that the aliens would have needed to pick up on our broadcasts to find us? There's a major hole in this logic. Fifty years from now WE may not even be able to pick them up, as we may have moved to different types of communications and simply wouldn't be looking for it, if we were in their shoes. Without a converter, a TV from 20 years ago is pretty much a planter now, it can't detect current TV broadcasts (as in digital).

When i refer to broadcasts i don't mean to say they are the only way aliens may be contacting us. I imply broadcasts because they leak off the earth however, actually signalling isn't the really the same thing because SETI uses very high frequency compared to the tv signals that bounce off the earth...also, the idea that there may be thousands of earth like planets due to guesses like Frank Drakes equation are what have motivated the entire SETI enterprise. So if SETI is a worth wild endeavour, if it has a reason to be done the way it's been done then it's going to succeed soon. Either it's going to succeed in a few dozen years or there's something fundamentally wrong, now what could be wrong is that there really aren't any civilisations out there or there just aren't very many of them.

That there could be thousands is wildly off, or it could be that they're missing some important physics or they're just doing the wrong experiment all together. I mean if there's physics that allows some other means of communications that is cheeper per bit then say radio then it's the wrong experiment. But if the premiss for SETI is justified, if you think yes this is worth trying. Then it isn't correct to say that this is something that might happen in the next 2 generations from now or in the next century or something like that. If the premiss of SETI is correct then it's going to happen soon rather then later.

The other caveat is that they could have found us long before we stupidly started broadcasting our location into space.

And that's one of my very points, why would they find us now of all times? Why now? You don't seem to understand how extremely coincidental visiting earth when homo sapiens have evolved is. They've had 2 billion years to know life's on earth so i don't see why they'd come now when they've had 2 billon years to visit earth.

The Hill Case is an interesting example of why they may have found us. In this case, the aliens related they were investigating other yellow stars like their own.

And if you understood how very little those cases mean you might think twice about all this and that's another point. Since when has any ufo or abduction case ever increased our understanding of the universe? If the aliens said "and if you point your antennas in the sky at this time and date you'll find a this and this etc...You'll never find that because every single case is made up.

As for a coverup, we already KNOW there is a coverup. This is an almost indisputable FACT. The Roswell case is the best example here showing a coverup. There have been numerous official investigations now. The last one however, really erred as they claimed dummies from a project five years after the incident were to blame for descriptions of bodies.

I think you're lying to yourself there because i think we all know what happened at Roswell. But in any case i'll tell you what you should already know. What happened at Roswell was that there was the Walker Air Force Base outside Roswell, so this was a place where secret things were going on during the war. But after the war they were worried about what the Soviet Union having nuclear weapons and they needed a method for determining if they were testing these weapons.

And so there was this project called project Mogul and the idea there was that they would launch aerostats which are balloons 400 feet worth that would go up and they had a feedback mechanism so they would stay at the same altitude. They launched these things right near the edges of the Soviet Union and then you essentially just had a microphone and some amplifier and the idea there was if a bomb was detonated then the atmosphere at certain altitudes would conduct the sound from that and you'd pick it up with these balloons.

And in fact i found out when i was researching this that some of the physicists that were working on this project i think are still alive working at New York University and you can show them the debris from Roswell and they'd say well thats was my project...... i'm pretty sure that's what happened

Originally posted by Welfhard
reply to post by autowrench

 

It's been demonstrated that a few men can make an intricate crop circle over night. It's not hard. And that video is a hoax. The guy who made it has been in documentaries on the subject.

I thought you just said you can't watch youtube because you're on dial up in the 21st century. So how do you know what video was just posted?

Here is one of your typical plank and rope hoaxes that any joe can do.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/87c1786d1c71.jpg[/atsimg]


Why don't you watch the crop circle video posted and then come back with distorted facts.

Edit to add:

BTW, that happens to be ascii values in the disc in the first one. Funny how none of these masterpieces have ever only been half done or butchered.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c2ee0e56b9a1.jpg[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/436f98695e96.jpg[/atsimg]

Where exactly does one "practice" these prior to setting out in the night and do them in one shot?

reply to post by KrypticCriminal

Its still based on too many assumptions.

It's based on two, the same two everyone else on this forum makes, most scientists and indeed most people. The other explanations make more, often many more assumptions than this does.

So it appears we reached an impass. Your not willing to stretch to anything beyond what our current science can explain.

That's different. Going beyond what science can explain means were purely speculating and making baseless assumptions. No explanation that goes beyond out current science is useful to us for that reason.

I don't think it's impossible that the standard scientific view is wrong, but I recognise that it's all we've got to go on and there's no evidence anything else, ie. alien visitation, is the case.

Don't put words in my mouth. I'm a skeptic, not a denialist.

reply to post by FlySolo


Explain to me why it's impossible that that is man-made.

The aliens ballsed up the bottom one. They ran out of space.

reply to post by Welfhard


Ok, you tell me the IQ and nocturnal vision a human must have to complete any one of the images I provided in one go.

reply to post by FlySolo


Why would people have to see in the dark? Of the cropcircles known to me man made, how many of those people had trouble making intricate designs in crop at night time? If only there was some kind of gadget that allowed someone to see in the night. Something like goggles that ... I dunno, enhanced light. Nocurnal light-up glasses? And you don't have to have a high IQ to be a graphic designer.

I mean for goodness sake, there's a company that makes cropcircles by night on commission. One was even for a british comedy quiz show.


How many times does it need to be demonstrated that it's perfectly within human ability to make cropcircles?!

But I do wonder why aliens would come interstellar distances to put graffiti in our crops. If they wanted to send a message, there are better information mediums than corn. Metal is a good one. Do you suppose aliens have no smith technology?

Originally posted by Welfhard
reply to post by KrypticCriminal

 

Its still based on too many assumptions.

It's based on two, the same two everyone else on this forum makes, most scientists and indeed most people. The other explanations make more, often many more assumptions than this does.

So it appears we reached an impass. Your not willing to stretch to anything beyond what our current science can explain.

That's different. Going beyond what science can explain means were purely speculating and making baseless assumptions. No explanation that goes beyond out current science is useful to us for that reason.

I don't think it's impossible that the standard scientific view is wrong, but I recognise that it's all we've got to go on and there's no evidence anything else, ie. alien visitation, is the case.

Don't put words in my mouth. I'm a skeptic, not a denialist.

So whats the difference?

Why are the OP's assumptions taken more seriously than other peoples? A couple of post ago you were saying he was right. Then you downgraded this to saying he has a hypothesis. which has'nt been tested and cant be proven to be correct.

Its a shame your sceptisim does'nt stretch to include what mainstream science tells us is or is'nt possible.
All your arguments so far are from the possition that science cant be wrong. If science cant prove something then its simply not true. Untill someone proves otherwise. Why? because scientists say so.

I never considered you to be a denialist, yet your unwillingness to believe or concieve of anything outside of what mainstream science can deal with. Shows you to be a tad closeminded.