France arrests Muslim women as full-face veil ban begins

Originally posted by AnitaCigarette


I guess you're also one of those people who say "If you don't like America, get out!" Yeah, that's totally logical. *NOT*

edit on 15-4-2011 by AnitaCigarette because: *fixed typos

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edit on 15-4-2011 by AnitaCigarette because: *fixed a quote

I live in Canada. We have a very strong multicultural community. I live just north of Toronto, one of, if not THE most multicultural city in the world. I have never seen a woman fully covered. and I would feel sad for that person If I did.

You say you are not free because you are an american (the Americas are continents btw.) but at least you can let the sun touch your skin...

They should forget about fines and just start deporting them. Its good to see the french atleast trying to preserve there culture in this way. Now if we can just get the United States and Britian to take similer measures the western world will be a better place.

Ridicilous. It was already illegal to force someone to wear something. Now they just make it so that those who actually want to do that are commiting a crime? So they make a choice illegal? Besides that whole argument about "if we can't go back to their country wearing miniskirts etc..." is total hogwash. You might as well argue "If they can throw rocks at someone legally we should have the same right to do here". Not to mention the stupid "culture" argument. So you have to follow specific culture and religion if you wan't to live in france? Since when?

I guess I am really just surprised that the French didn't surrender to the veiled Muslim women.

Just saying........

Show your face. Very simple. Show your face. We are human beings who communicate through just as much body language and facial expressions as verbal communication. We are not robots. If you are incapable of following this law then go back to where you came from. If you cannot go back to where you came from then show your face.

VERY SIMPLE TO FOLLOW! Show your face. That is NOT a hard request. It is EASY!

Besides if god wanted you to cover up your face then why didn't he design a giant flap of skin to cover it up with?

CHECK AND MATE ISLAM!

Originally posted by OUNjahhryn

Originally posted by AnitaCigarette


I guess you're also one of those people who say "If you don't like America, get out!" Yeah, that's totally logical. *NOT*

edit on 15-4-2011 by AnitaCigarette because: *fixed typos

edit on 15-4-2011 by AnitaCigarette because: *added a sentence

edit on 15-4-2011 by AnitaCigarette because: *added another quote

edit on 15-4-2011 by AnitaCigarette because: *fixed a quote

I live in Canada. We have a very strong multicultural community. I live just north of Toronto, one of, if not THE most multicultural city in the world. I have never seen a woman fully covered. and I would feel sad for that person If I did.

You say you are not free because you are an american (the Americas are continents btw.) but at least you can let the sun touch your skin...

edit on 15-4-2011 by OUNjahhryn because: (no reason given)

A Muslim woman can let the sun touch her skin too in France! But she alsoi has the right to hide behind a sacred garment that has been part of her heritage for centuries. What is it you cannot comprehend about that???

& thanks for reminding me the Americas are contenines. I am sooo oblivious to life around me, cuz I live a in a hole. Get real!! Please take the sarcastic crap somewhere else. Sarcasm is a sign of a weak mind.

reply to post by AnitaCigarette


"has the right to hide behind a sacred garment"

I think the point that France is trying to make is that they don't want their people hiding behind anything.

We've both made up our minds on this subject so I say we agree to disagree.

The Nazis did the same type of thing (passing peculiar laws) to Jews before the killing and concentration camps started.

too many laws

Originally posted by OUNjahhryn
reply to post by AnitaCigarette

 

They have a right to their religion yes, but when you are in a country of male/female equality, women having to cover their face seems like 5 steps back for womens rights.

Buddhist robes/monks etc. don't cover their faces because they are free human beings. This is more of an issue of womens rights/ security than religion.

I agree with your assessment. I just think it really degrades women to a level that they are somehow not on the same level as a man. Civilized societies accepts that equality and allowing people to flaunt their derogatory beliefs, in my opinion, goes against basic human rights! This is the basic constitutional right of all free societies. Some radicals in their religion have proven time and time again that their twisted perception of religion can include killing others who don't believe the same. Western women who travel to Saudi Arabia are expected to wear scarves during their visits. Yet France and other western cultures are expected to conform to their expectations? I don't think so. I think France made the right decision. They're making a stand for basic human rights. This isn't about freedom of expression, it's about equality, human rights and a countries established constitutional beliefs. A line has to be drawn somewhere.

Sure, why don't you fine the oppressed. In fact, persecute them as criminals, that will show them!

Show them what exactly you ask?

Well, show them that France has a track record of religious persecution, xenophobia, outright racism and the type of arrogance that is recognizable in French people the world over - which makes one want to outright slap them irregardless of social setting.

Fighting symptoms has always been easy and the French are known to never confront ANYTHING head-on. White flags come to mind. Either case, this will lead to the alienation of a bunch of people - something that doesn't fit in a Western society.

Beyond that, France should learn a lesson from the way (the Shah of) Iran treated the Muslims, sure your intentions could be correct - but the masses are really, really dumb. The clergy must be rubbing their hands, thanking the French government for the free recruitment and PR campaign.

reply to post by AnitaCigarette


I agree with allowing anyone to wear anything they want, whether for religious reasons, political reasons, or just fashion sense. Now that is not what this is about.....at least that is not what the original post is about. It was about veiled women not lifting their veil to be identified by police. That seems a very different thing than not letting them wear it at all. It suggested they even take them back to the station before arresting them to try to convince them [I can only imagine that they allow a female officer to attempt to get her to show her face to her however it doesn't go into that much detail].
Otherwise if this was just about her wearing it in public I'd agree that it was her right completely. I have heard arguments that it is the Husband that would force her to wear it and is therefore abuse, however even though that may be true in many cases, how would arresting the women help her situation?

Originally posted by Sarahko
If an when we go to their countries - as women - we cannot wear miniskirts, no tank tops, no showing bare flesh, shoulders and depending on which country, we even have to cover our heads.

I don't understand this comparison. France is a free and secular country. In a theocracy, the government tells their women how to dress. Is that what France is becoming? Is that what people want for the US? A government that bans certain pieces of clothing because they see it as demeaning to women?

Banning the burqa and using the excuse that it's for women's equality really makes no sense. Using your examples, the next step (to make sure that women are seen as equal to men) is to ban the above items. Short skirts, tank tops and so on are demeaning to women! They display women as if they are a piece of meat! So, for women's sake, let's ban these items of clothing.

Also, "dancing". You know the kind of dancing I mean... "Exotic dancing". Stripping. That also demeans women, does it not? Let's ban that, too. And prostitution, girly magazines, bikinis and anything topless. Because they demean women. And make-up? Don't even get me started!

Yes, let's have the government tell us how to dress. Because women are too stupid to make the right choice for themselves. Especially Muslim women.

Now, to get serious for a minute. You see? France didn't "ban the burqa" for women, as it claims. They did it as a strike against the few women in their country whose wardrobe made some people uncomfortable. It's a strike out against a religion. They did it for the religious bigots. They took away the rights of these women to dress as they CHOOSE, so the Christians wouldn't feel so uncomfortable. I guess maybe France is becoming a theocracy after all.
,

Originally posted by bhornbuckle75
....at least that is not what the original post is about. It was about veiled women not lifting their veil to be identified by police.

Did you read the original story? The women were arrested for protesting and they DID lift their veils for female officers.

Additionally:

"The law will be infinitely difficult to enforce, and will be infinitely rarely enforced," said Manuel Roux, deputy head of a union representing local police chiefs, in an interview with France Inter radio.

This law was passed with NO MEANS of enforcement! Another useless law! A law of intimidation only! So stupid! And so wrong...

hello

just this

france 65,026,885 inhabitants

women identified wearing the niqab and not the burka there is any women in france who wear burka : 2000

so tell me now why this law is made off... what is the finality ? what all those governement want ?

Originally posted by Rockpuck
I find Sharia Law a disgusting perversion of religion in any form, and find it appalling how many Liberals support the suppression of women under it.

You're smarter than that. Supporting freedom of choice does NOT mean supporting the choice they make!

I support the rights of Fred Phelps to protest as he sees fit.That doesn't mean I support his message.
I support the right of skinheads to freely associate. I don't support their message or their associations.

Either you support freedom for everyone (even those with whom you disagree) OR YOU DON'T.

" Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. "

U.S. Constitution Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression

To all those who support this ban, do not let me ever hear you crying about losing freedoms on here - because this is exactly what is happening to these poor woman. If they want to cover their face LET THEM, it is their right, a right which is supposed to be fundermental to a FREE SOCIETY.
Show me the statistics from any independant report that show whearing a burka in public in France means you are more likely to pose a security risk than someone who is not.

DENY IGNORANCE YOU HATE FILLED ZOMBIES

Originally posted by SaturnFX
-covering identity in public...about as trustworthy as someone wearing a skimask into a bank...

And does that law keep criminals from wearing ski masks and robbing banks? My point is, making a law against something someone does in the process of committing a crime hardly matters to the criminal committing that crime. In other words, if a person is going to wear a burqa to rob a bank, this law isn't going to stop them. They're freaking criminals! They don't care about the law.

reply to post by Max_TO


To be fair, we're talking about France, not the US. But France does have freedom of religion. It's just not the same as it is here.

Of all states in the Western world, France’s conception of secularism is the most rigidly defined, with strictly enforced policies that keep religion out of the public sphere. One of the crucial aspects of the French interpretation of the right to freedom of religion is that right’s definition as a liberté publique, rather than as a civil right (as the term is understood in most other countries). In France, civil rights do not exist as natural rights that an individual may assert against the state; rather, they are “the natural right to enjoy freedoms defined and delimited exclusively” by state law.(93) Citizens must profess allegiance to the state first and religious institutions second; religion belongs to the private sphere, and freedom of religion exists within the confines prescribed by state laïcité. Clearly, recognition of freedom of religion within a laïc state is full of contradictory tensions, with the end result that although France may have very strong notions of negative freedom, positive freedoms can be significantly restrained.

Source