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France arrests Muslim women as full-face veil ban begins

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posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 12:34 PM
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I find the underlined quote very telling for TPTB and their motives... let them protest let them wear the face masks as long they COMPLY with the police and remove their mask for identification. and if they keep it up send them to Re-education classes... sounds like George Orwell...



Anyone refusing to lift his or her veil to submit to an identity check can be taken to a police station. There, officers must try to persuade them to remove the garment, and can threaten fines.

A woman who repeatedly insists on appearing veiled in public can be fined 150 euros ($216) and ordered to attend re-education classes.

There are much more severe penalties for anyone found guilty of forcing someone else to hide his or her face "through threats, violence, constraint, abuse of authority or power for reason of their gender." Clearly aimed at fathers, husbands or religious leaders who force women to wear face-veils, and applicable to offences committed in public or in private, the law imposes a fine of 30,000 euros and a year in jail.




"The cat joined the Re-education Committee and was very active in it for some days. She was seen one day sitting on a roof and talking to some sparrows who were just out of her reach. She was telling them that all animals were now comrades and that any sparrow who chose could come and perch on her paw; but the sparrows kept their distance." — George Orwell



Full Article



+2 more 
posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 12:35 PM
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good, this is a start...telling Muslims theyre no diffrent then everyone else and need to comply with the laws everyone else has to



posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 12:38 PM
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I don't trust anyone who wears a veil.....


Leave it to the French to enforce the really tough laws hahahahahahah!!!!!



posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 12:40 PM
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Great find S&F.

Yeah, when you start seeing this happening you know there is a presence of a bullying action happening by the French policemen in accordance with the new veil policy. You have to think that there is a hidden agenda aside from revealing one's face. I think it has to do with a religious power struggle. Moreover, I think it also has something to do with equity, and that everyone needs to be treated as equals of that country if you wish to belong as a working citizen.

Even though here is Canada we don't face this sort of policy, I was watching a live political debate between political leaders and our prime minister, and one leader, Jean Charrette, seemed to be against multi-culturalism as it strayed away from traditional French roots, which made me think about a link between that and France.

If you ask me, you will see rebellion happening amongst Muslims against the French police. If worse comes to worse, you'll probably have a FEMA camp of some sort developed for when a NWO comes into play.
edit on 15-4-2011 by Skywatcher2011 because: edit



posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 12:41 PM
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Originally posted by HomerinNC
good, this is a start...telling Muslims theyre no diffrent then everyone else and need to comply with the laws everyone else has to


The thing is WE Shouldn't be complying with 3/4 of the so called laws we do comply with...They are there just to make money for the elite....Maybe one day us Americans will grow something between our legs besides just hair and we will stand up against these tyrants....



posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 12:42 PM
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reply to post by Caji316
 


Okay, you be the first to grow a pair, disreguard3/4 of the laws you say we shouldnt comply with...
After that, I'll come visit you in jail

Until you do, you really dont have anything relevant to say
edit on 4/15/2011 by HomerinNC because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 12:51 PM
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reply to post by -W1LL
 


Before you all jump to say that they don't have a right to wear veils, read this article:


Burqa ban turns a RIGHT into a CRIME

Sarah Joseph: French ban on face-covering veil is "gesture politics," pandering to far right

The full force of the state is coming down on fewer than 2,000 Muslim women, she writes

Buddhist robes, nuns' habits allowed, she says. This violates Muslim women's right to choose

Joseph: Ban institutionalizes anti-Muslim discrimination and is anti-democratic

Editor's note: Sarah Joseph OBE is the CEO and editor of emel Media. She is a regular contributor to public and governmental discussions pertaining to Islam and was listed by Washington's Georgetown University as one of the world's 500 most influential Muslims.

London, England (CNN) -- The ban imposed by French President Sarkozy on wearing a face-covering veil, or niqab, is simply dangerous gesture politics, representing little more than pandering to the far right in France.

The full force of the state is coming down on fewer than 2,000 Muslim women out of a population of 6.5 million French Muslim citizens. For what purpose? We are told it is for security, the preservation of "French values" and to alleviate the oppression of women.

For security purposes, women who wear the veil should be ready to remove their face covering in places where security and identity checks are necessary, such as airports. The argument that criminals could abuse the niqab is not compelling enough to deny the fundamental freedom of religious expression to a group of French citizens -- or indeed visitors to France.

I find it startling that a country of 65 million people with strong democratic traditions is so threatened by a tiny number of women that it chooses to engage the might of the state to criminalize their apparel. And the irony and hypocrisy of claiming the ban protects women from oppression is glaring: Freedom must be "protected" by denying women their freedom to choose how to dress. Patronizing at best, but more like doublespeak. Has anyone asked these women whether they are oppressed, or is the state, in some grotesque Hobbesian way, imposing what it knows best?

The full force of the state is coming down on fewer than 2,000 Muslim women out of a population of 6.5 million French Muslim citizens.

--Sarah Joseph

Some will say the state already dictates what we wear in certain situations. That is correct; indecent exposure is a crime in most societies. But the French are banning over-dressing. It is not the function of the state to prescribe how its citizens dress; thus the saffron robes of the Buddhist, the turbans of the Sikh, the yarmulke of the Jew are -- and should be -- permitted in a modern liberal democracy, along with the Mohican of the punk, the black dress of the Goth and the leathers of the Heavy Metal enthusiast.

The plurality and liberalism prized by Western societies requires all citizens to accept behavior that doesn't conform with a single perspective. The argument has to rise above whether I, as an individual, approve of or understand something, and has to revolve around principles: the fundamental principle of the right to choose. Now, whether that's on the streets of Tehran to choose not to wear a chador, or the streets of Paris, to choose to wear a niqab, we have to give credence to a woman's ability to think for herself.

The authentic narrative in the Quran is that "there can be no compulsion in religion," and it is our freedom to choose that gives our actions validity in the sight of God. There is no moral validity in an action that is not freely made.

Some people might believe that fanatical husbands and fathers force the veil on women. But evidence exists that English soccer fans engage in greater domestic violence after England loses a match, so should soccer be banned? How absurd that would be.

Should we deny the right of a Carmelite or Benedictine nun to wear her habit or to take a vow of seclusion?
--Sarah Joseph


SOURCE: Burqa ban turns a right into a crime
edit on 15-4-2011 by AnitaCigarette because: *added bold to emphasize

edit on 15-4-2011 by AnitaCigarette because: *added more bold to emphasize



posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 01:09 PM
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reply to post by AnitaCigarette
 


what I don't understand is why muslim women with their face covered can board an airplane but the TSA has to pat down a 6 year old girl....

They have a right to their religion yes, but when you are in a country of male/female equality, women having to cover their face seems like 5 steps back for womens rights.

Buddhist robes/monks etc. don't cover their faces because they are free human beings. This is more of an issue of womens rights/ security than religion.



posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 01:10 PM
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alot of sides to this actually

-covering identity in public...about as trustworthy as someone wearing a skimask into a bank...

-right to choose attire and cultural heritage

-desire to keep france with french culture, ignoring political correctness in favor of local heritage

-potential anti-religious sentiment targeting a specific religion verses any/all (even though a veil is not a rule of islam..just a suggestion)

-slippery slope considering they are attacking this mostly from a culture preservence measure verses a safety and security through identification measure.

I am not in favor of this law at all, however, thats from a principled standpoint which overrules slightly the reasons I am in favor of it (security and cultural). I think in this case, the ends do not justify the means



posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 01:15 PM
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Originally posted by HomerinNC
good, this is a start...telling Muslims theyre no diffrent then everyone else and need to comply with the laws everyone else has to


I totally agree.

If an when we go to their countries - as women - we cannot wear miniskirts, no tank tops, no showing bare flesh, shoulders and depending on which country, we even have to cover our heads.

No alcohol....because they say so - it`s their way, their life, their rules. Fine. I agree.
No Catholic/Christian churches....unless hidden somewhere in some embassy...OK
(but now in Europe we have Mosques stemming up like mushrooms, all over the place)

If I don`t like their rules, I won`t go to their country , I won`t impose `MY` beliefs or way of life and that`s it. Fine, live and let live.

BUT - on the contrary, these people go to different countries and instead of adapting, they IMPOSE their rules on everyone else and on countries which are not their own.....And they get angry when their requests are not met. I find this utterly disgusting. They want everyone to accept and adapt to them, even in a foreign country. Incredible.

I am all for the ban on the veil. If they are not happy with it, then why don`t they go back to their country, noone is stopping them.

Don`t get me wrong - I`m not a militant racist or anything like that - on the contrary. I accept and welcome anyone, but I believe in respect for other people`s ways - just as they expect so too...



posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 01:20 PM
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Great replies
I agree with parts all of them...

I think the law is somewhat justified if it were written differently.. if a policeman has reasonable doubt you are doing something dodgy he can question you and ask for I.D. this is in the U.S.

why not make it like our law where they must identify themselves weather somewhere private on the street or in private at the station.

Imposing Fines and re-education is starting to go to far.
we are already taught exactly what TPTB want us to learn in public schools and info is withheld everywhere in public life.

it seems the plan of "YOU MUST COMPLY" is showing itself in the newer laws that are trying to be imposed all over the world.



posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 01:22 PM
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Originally posted by OUNjahhryn
reply to post by AnitaCigarette
 


what I don't understand is why muslim women with their face covered can board an airplane but the TSA has to pat down a 6 year old girl....

They have a right to their religion yes, but when you are in a country of male/female equality, women having to cover their face seems like 5 steps back for womens rights.

Buddhist robes/monks etc. don't cover their faces because they are free human beings. This is more of an issue of womens rights/ security than religion.


This Burqa ban is in France, a much different country than the USA. The TSA patdown here in the USA is an invasion of privacy, not repression of religious expression. I also think that Burqa's are stupid & pointless & have misogynistic overtones, but it is their religion & we have to deal with it. In America, you are allowed to worship the way you want [except for human & animal sacrifice] & you are allowed to wear what you want [provided it's not indecent] but in France, their government is ran completely different & they have been rated the rudest country on the planet, too. I'd say that explains a lot. This isn't the first time tyrannical oppression has happened in France!

Granted, if a police officer asks you to remove the veil, then you should willingly comply, but in a private setting, not in public. That to me is public humiliation, to be called out for the way you dress & then told to take it off. These women also wear the Burqas as a sign of humbleness. It would be equivalent to making a nun take off her hat because a policeman wanted to see the gray in her hair.
edit on 15-4-2011 by AnitaCigarette because: *added another paragraph



posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 01:23 PM
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reply to post by Sarahko
 



I understand your point although I don't see the Muslims Imposing their beliefs on anyone else in this situation..



posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 01:24 PM
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I'm sorry France, but this is NO WAY to combat the problems in the Muslim community in your country. You can't fix problems by banning things.



posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 01:29 PM
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Originally posted by -W1LL
reply to post by Sarahko
 



I understand your point although I don't see the Muslims Imposing their beliefs on anyone else in this situation..


Oh no?? Then, try going to Saudi Arabia wearing a miniskirt (maybe not you if you`re a man!!!) and an open top and showing part of a cleavage...
Not allowed!!!

So why can`t Europe/France say, hey- - in our country, veils are not allowed, That`s it. Full stop. What`s the problem. Why such a big deal. Different countries, different rules.

Over there alcohol is absolutely not allowed, You won`t find it anywhere in the country - so even those who are not locals, are not allowed to drink and have to abide by their rules.

What if, they started imposing this in Europe too? Adapting THEIR rules to other countries. They have to be stopped before it goes to far. Thus, I agree with the ban on the veil.



posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 01:30 PM
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reply to post by Sarahko
 


These "Muslims" didn't just pop out of nowhere, wearing Burqa. I'm sure a majority of them moved there before the ban was enforced. Hell, a few of them could have been living there for the past 20 years, before this was even an issue. They are just as much a part of that culture as a Chinese person is to Chinatown in the USA.

Also, I think the reason they moved is to practice religious freedom in a country that isn't overrun by war & terrorist.

Someone here said, "if they don't like it, move back." That is not always an option. Look at it like this: A Muslim woman decides to move from her country because there are tons of wars & poverty, men beating women & killing because of old school laws. So, this Muslim woman decides to move to France, because they have it so much better. You move there & 8 months later, they tell you that wearing a Burqa is against the law, even tho wearing it yesterday wasn't an issue at all. & this Muslim woman wears the Burqa because it is part of her cultural heritage, something instilled in her since birth, something she might be proud of, something she can carry with her in her heart, something that many women have been doing for hundreds of years! That is REPRESSION OF RELIGIOUS EXPRESSION.
edit on 15-4-2011 by AnitaCigarette because: *added more info

edit on 15-4-2011 by AnitaCigarette because: *added a sentence



posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 01:31 PM
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I aapplaude the French for doing this and not folding. If they can't assiilate into the culture..........leave, really kind of simple. There are alot of laws people don;t agree with and yet they comply, but when it comes to islam and it's political followers they are somehow "special"....nope, follow the law or move, no more coddling or special treatment.



posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 01:35 PM
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Originally posted by -W1LL
reply to post by Sarahko
 



I understand your point although I don't see the Muslims Imposing their beliefs on anyone else in this situation..


Excuse me!!! But don`t they ban things??? Everything is banned in their countries. Drinking, dancing, loud music, touching, come on....

If we don`t start banning things instead of being so liberal for everything - before we know it, it`s no longer going to be Europe, but Eurabia.

Think about it.
edit on 15-4-2011 by Sarahko because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 01:35 PM
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Originally posted by Sarahko

Originally posted by -W1LL
reply to post by Sarahko
 



I understand your point although I don't see the Muslims Imposing their beliefs on anyone else in this situation..


Oh no?? Then, try going to Saudi Arabia wearing a miniskirt (maybe not you if you`re a man!!!) and an open top and showing part of a cleavage...
Not allowed!!!

So why can`t Europe/France say, hey- - in our country, veils are not allowed, That`s it. Full stop. What`s the problem. Why such a big deal. Different countries, different rules.

Over there alcohol is absolutely not allowed, You won`t find it anywhere in the country - so even those who are not locals, are not allowed to drink and have to abide by their rules.

What if, they started imposing this in Europe too? Adapting THEIR rules to other countries. They have to be stopped before it goes to far. Thus, I agree with the ban on the veil.



this is exactly why I said in this situation. meaning in France... I agree if they (Muslims) try to impose their beliefs as laws in france it should be stopped. but on the same thought so should this law saying they cant wear them... if someone is suspicious they should identify themselves that is as far as this law needs to go..

I dont think anyone should force such laws on people.. but that's their country France is supposed to be Free and equal if they want to stay that way telling people their religion is wrong and they need to be taught differently is not the way to fix this problem, which i still don't see..



posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 01:41 PM
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its not an easy topic, many arguments towards tolerating other customs, but then, they come here to where things have been a certain way for hundreds of years, they should adapt, no us to them, but still, as the article posted by AnitaCiggies, should we then ban all costumes from others that deem it a necessity?

Where do we cross the line?
this is a political issue but beyond that its an issue of common sense, whatever that means!


I mean if we are unable to even get along being adults, if they have to tell us not to drive drunk, or to stop being mean and disrespectful to others, then what is left of us? when we are getting to a point where compassion, friendship and empathic understanding are meaningless.

thanks for sharing OP, things are weirder and sillier than they appear at first glance...



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