France arrests Muslim women as full-face veil ban begins

What they really should be banning is the wearing of tin foil hats .

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Yes I know , I was only pointing out to those in America calling for something similar that certain rights are not open to opinion . We have enough things to worry about besides passing a law to remove a constitutional right .

reply to post by Max_TO


That's what scares me. SO many in the US would LOVE to see this happen here.

The people of the United States have a firm 1st Amendment protection of freedom of speech from government interference that explicitly includes clothing items, as described by Supreme Court cases such as Tinker v. Des Moines.[67] As such, a ban on Islamic clothing is considered presumptively invalid by U.S. socio-political commentators such as Mona Charen of National Review.[68] Journalist Howard LaFranchi of the Christian Science Monitor has referred to "the traditional American respect for different cultural communities and religions under the broad umbrella of universal freedoms" as forbidding the banning of Islamic dress. In his prominent June 2009 speech to the Muslim World in Cairo, President Barack Obama called on the West "to avoid dictating what clothes a Muslim woman should wear", and he elaborated that such rules involve "hostility" towards Muslims in "the pretense of liberalism".[69]

Source

In the US, laws about public appearance are state by state.

Mask Laws by State

Wow I do not know how one could call themselves patriotic while supporting this discrimination. Liberating women who don't want to be veiled is one thing, but arresting someone for wearing a veil? That's disgusting. What ever happened to the freedom of expression?

reply to post by treee


Exactly!

What one has to consider is how far will a government go until we are all forced to do exactly as they want. As I've said in another thread about this, are they going to ban the wearing of gloves next in case the person wearing them is intent on hiding their finger prints? What about masks on halloween? Sunglasses and baseball caps can be used to hide one's face as well, better ban them too!

The main reasons cited for the ban on the full face veil:

- The veil alienates and so stigmatises Muslim women
- it creates security problems.

So as if Muslim women weren't stigmatised enough now they're going to be criminals for following their religion? Most Muslim women who wear the veil wear it out of choice, it is believed to be a sign of modesty and devotion to their faith. I'm more afraid of kids with their hoods up than I am Muslim women with a full face veil. I can understand the fine for people who force their partners or relatives to wear the veil, however the chances of that happening are very slim and this law is probably only going to target Muslim women.

So basically asking them to assimilate is too much to ask and we shouldn't ask them to be treated how the muslims treat everyone else, because they're special right? Gimme a break.

You know what? I think we should all be allowed to wear masks. In fact I am going to make a Mohammed mask and wear it everywhere I go because after all isn't that part of freedom of expression and freedom of religion? My religion teaches me that I need to at ALL times keep my Mohammed mask on (unless a police offer needs to see my face) but other than that MOHAMMED MASK IT IS!

How the HECK do you think these tolerant peaceful people would react if I walked around wearing a Mohammed mask in front of them? On the streets, on the sidewalks?

A VEIL INSULTS ME THE SAME WAY THAT A MOHAMMED MASK INSULTS THEM!

The only difference is they do not care about what insults me.
Do you think that a single ONE of them would stand up and fight for my freedom to wear a Mohammed mask?
Do you think that a single one of them would say that I have the right to my religious beliefs and wearing a Mohammed mask is part of my religious beliefs?

It insults me and my beliefs to the very core of my humanity to see a full body Burka. Where is the respect for my beliefs? Where is the respect for my humiliation? Where is the catering to my outrage? I see NONE of it from Muslims NONE!

And let me add something else to this while I have your undivided attention. I did two tours in Iraq. NEVER in my entire LIFETIME have I had to use more restraint to not murder another human being than when I saw the way those men of Islam treated women. NEVER! Every single day of my deployments it took EVER INCH of my humanity and my being and if there is a soul than that freaking thing as well not to let loose with a berserker savage rage and tear out those men's larynx's with my bare hands and strip that garbage sack off those female human beings.

I wanted to become Harrison Bergeron. That is all that I could think every time I saw the way that women were treated over there. Every time. Harrison Bergeron. Harrison Bergeron. Harrison Bergeron.

The thing is , you can't accept people into your country, get them to work for you, pay taxes etc and ask them to drop their religious beliefs at the door. Messed up.

reply to post by idonotcollectstamps


The difference is the veil isn't considered a symbol of a sacred, holy and pious individual to you and is not intended to be offensive. Whereas the only reason anyone in their right mind would wear a Muhammad mask would be to cause offense.

reply to post by lifeissacred


Way to be intolerant of my religious beliefs. Way to respect my religious views. Mohammed came to me in a vision and told me that the only way to get to heaven and 72 Virgins is to wear a Mohammed mask.

I suggest you wear a Mohammed mask if you want to get into heaven as well. It is the truth. Mohammed the Prophet came to me in a dream and told me this.

So who gets to be right. Me with my interpretation or them with their interpretation?

Tell me I would really like to know. Who is afforded religious tolerance and who gets persecution.

Originally posted by adifferentbreed
So basically asking them to assimilate is too much to ask

ASKING is not too much to ask. Demanding or otherwise using legal force to make them comply is too much, IMO. Yes. Legally forcing someone to change their way of dress because someone is offended is asking too much.

and we shouldn't ask them to be treated how the muslims treat everyone else, because they're special right?

So... let me get this right... you want to do what they're doing? You want to treat all Muslims in the same manner that the WORST representation of the religion treats people... That's your goal? To treat people more like the Muslims countries do? Do you support Sharia Law then, too?

Is it OK if I ask YOU to be treated in the same manner as the worst representation of MEN treats women? Is it OK to think that all men are rapists, just because they're men? I shouldn't ask that men not be raped because they're the rapists? Is that where this line of thought is going?

It's pretty absurd, isn't it?

Originally posted by idonotcollectstamps
A VEIL INSULTS ME THE SAME WAY THAT A MOHAMMED MASK INSULTS THEM!

Some people think they have a right not to be offended. I always find that amusing. They want to strike down the first amendment because they don't want people talking about stuff that offends them.

I don't know where you live and I know this is France's law, but in the US, there is no right not to be offended and being politically correct to appease your religious sensibilities is not how we handle things. It's one of my pet peeves. I'm sorry if you're offended by a lady's dress, but she has the right to wear it, just as you have the right to wear a Muhammad mask.

Do you think that a single ONE of them would stand up and fight for my freedom to wear a Mohammed mask?
Do you think that a single one of them would say that I have the right to my religious beliefs and wearing a Mohammed mask is part of my religious beliefs?

Again... why are you lowering yourselves to behaving in the same manner as these people you apparently strongly dislike ... for their behavior? Are you trying to be more like them?

I don't really get that...

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Hi BH, you know you and I are never going to agree and you know how I feel about muzzies in general. However, pointing out the double standard again when dealing with them in way implies I would ever agree with their false form of governement. Thinking like yours and others on here have helped to create the mess we are in today..............when you are the only one tolerant, the world will walk al over you and demand more because they are victims..............happens on a daily basis. Time to make a stand and put peole back on the path to getting along. I keep hearing we need to allow them (certain groups) to do anything in the name of getting along and equality...........it's not working out so good, because in their eyes, we can never be equal until we are just like them.

reply to post by idonotcollectstamps

My religion teaches me that I need to at ALL times keep my Mohammed mask on

You and I both know your religion is ignorance. And ignorance tells you to do whatever is ignorant and non-sensical. Like making up arguments like the one above.

A VEIL INSULTS ME THE SAME WAY THAT A MOHAMMED MASK INSULTS THEM!

No it doesn't. Stop letting the mass-media think and form arguments for you alright? Good boy.

Do you think that a single ONE of them would stand up and fight for my freedom to wear a Mohammed mask?

I'd say there is one way to find that out bigmouth Unless of course, you're not being serious at all and you're just trolling...

Idonotcollect

No one knows what Muhammed looks like .

So , go ahead and make a mask of Muhammed .

I doubt anyone is going to care and no one will ever know the likeleness of your mask to Muhammed .

There , your problem solved , wear your mask .

reply to post by 23432


It's not that simple. If he makes the mask and labels it as such, he can be killed by the followers of the "religion" of peace. Of course that part wass left out of the answer, I wonder why?

reply to post by idonotcollectstamps


It's not about religious tolerance as much as it is about personal liberty. I'd not stop you from wearing a Muhammad mask as much as I disagree with it. I'm saying the difference here is, these women don't wear these veils to offend or to take a stand against the west. It's considered part of their personal relationship with God. However, if you were to walk about wearing a depiction of Muhammad as a mask solely as a personal statement then it is merely going to cause trouble.

reply to post by 23432


Oh you see Mohammed told me what he looks like in the vision to me. He also instructed me to write the words "THIS IS A MASK OF MOHAMMED" on the mask itself and he mentioned something about wearing a t-shirt with the same thing on it.

So do we respect peoples religious beliefs or not?

If you find my religious beliefs insulting and I find your religious beliefs just as insulting who wins?
Who gets to have the final say in religious insults?
The person who screams the loudest?
The Person who is the most heavily armed?

And if you think that for one second I would not walk around with my Mohammed mask out of fear you are very wrong. I am about as fearful of Islam as I would be a grape in a fruit fight. I could take on 2 billion of them as long as it one at a time and not all at once

reply to post by adifferentbreed

It's not that simple. If he makes the mask and labels it as such, he can be killed by the followers of the "religion" of peace. Of course that part wass left out of the answer, I wonder why?

Can you point me to one religion of peace? Or are you just trying to make others look bad because they are not perfect? Newsflash: The same can, and is, being done to you.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

If you find my religious beliefs insulting and I find your religious beliefs just as insulting who wins?

You are both religious, so none of you win. The lawmakers, the m-assmedia, the nutcase clergymen and religious zealots and weapon manufacturers win. Because they get you to dance upside down, inside out. They get you to fight your brother and sister, they get you to fight yourself. Are you still going to boast your "awesome-argument-forming skill" or see it for what it is?

reply to post by adifferentbreed


No, it says nowhere in the Quran that he can be killed for depicting Muhammad. In the golden age of Islam it was quite common for depictions of Muhammad to be made (at least compared to nowadays), until fairly recently it did still happen as long as the pictures were respectful and didn't depict the face of Muhammad (merely because no one knows what he looks like)
This can still be seen in Shi'ite artwork which may depict Ali the successor to Muhammad with a blanked out face or sometimes without any censorship, though this uncensored style is quite uncommon in more traditional art.
Modern depictions are generally opposed by Islam as offensive as they can give rise to devotional practices (similar to the devotion some christians make to pictures of saints) which could threaten the nature of the 'oneness of God' in Islam. The large controversy surrounding recent depictions of Muhammad was more to do with their disrespectful nature than their actual depiction of the prophet.