CA Senate bill mandates gay history in schools

Originally posted by beezzer
instilling tolerance over knowledge only hurts those children that would benefit from both.

What aspect of this legislation insists upon tolerance over knowledge?

please site the specific wording.

reply to post by incrediblelousminds


Gays shouldn't be excluded anymore than a guy who likes to choke his girlfriend during intercourse because they are both the same thing, a sexual preference that has no relevance to anyone else outside of there sexual partner behind closed doors.

History doesn't care, your employer doesn't care and guess what, the 11th graders in the history class don't care either. Maybe you shouldn't try so hard to make us.........

I don't believe a "gay agenda" exists. AT ALL. I wonder what everyone would write
if the internet were around during the movement for women's rights? Probably that
some "female agenda" was behind every action they took to have their voices heard
in a man's world. We are taught the struggles and victories of humans over the course
of time...that is what history class is there for. I'm a gay male, and I have been
conditioned through the hatred of people and society to be ashamed of who I am.
This is NOT a choice for me because believe me when I say I would've rather not been
ridiculed. I am very masculine in many ways, but I had to learn to be that way.
When I was just five years old I can remember being at an amusement park
with my family. There were two thirty-somethings siting on a bench watching me and
laughing at me. This is forever burned into my mind, and it's one of thousands of incidences.
Yes, I'm sure everyone is teased about something growing up, but I was FIVE. Sex wasn't
even a thought to me yet. So please don't throw this subject into the save it for the bedroom
category. I'm not saying it should or shouldn't be taught because that is not my decision, but
all these vicious comments in this thread break my heart.

Originally posted by Helious
reply to post by incrediblelousminds

 

Gays shouldn't be excluded anymore than a guy who likes to choke his girlfriend during intercourse because they are both the same thing, a sexual preference that has no relevance to anyone else outside of there sexual partner behind closed doors.

History doesn't care, your employer doesn't care and guess what, the 11th graders in the history class don't care either. Maybe you shouldn't try so hard to make us.........

yes, gay people and people who choke each other are totally comparable. Way to subvert your own topic.

Why should schools be allowed to use textbooks that openly discriminate against gays?

Originally posted by incrediblelousminds

Originally posted by Helious
reply to post by incrediblelousminds

 

Gays shouldn't be excluded anymore than a guy who likes to choke his girlfriend during intercourse because they are both the same thing, a sexual preference that has no relevance to anyone else outside of there sexual partner behind closed doors.

History doesn't care, your employer doesn't care and guess what, the 11th graders in the history class don't care either. Maybe you shouldn't try so hard to make us.........

yes, gay people and people who choke each other are totally comparable. Way to subvert your own topic.

Why should schools be allowed to use textbooks that openly discriminate against gays?

Hedrosexual people who enjoy choking there partner during sex are exactly the same as gay people, unless you are claiming you are a bigot and deny that being a valid sexual preference and that I shouldn't be able to express that preference in everyday life to those around me? I could come up with a special fist pump to denote "Chokers" we could have a couple parades and then demand equal rights...... See where im going? Where does it end?

See, im not in the least bashing gay people, I have ABSOLUTELY no problem with gay people at all in any way shape or form, I am for everyone living there own life as they see fit under our Constitution. The thing im missing is where because you prefer something different than the majority in the bedroom, you become deserving of consideration above and beyond the rest of the general public, even though we have many people who enjoy a different type of sex but rightfully choose to leave it where it belongs, behind closed doors.

Sexual preference is something that has no place in history, nobody cares if Hitler was gay, they care what scares he left on mankind, there have been multiple gay artisans and others in society and I would wager the majority of kids in todays schools know about there works or contributions to society and could care less if they were gay or not.

Lastly, please cite me ONE instance where an American school book discriminates against gay.

Originally posted by incrediblelousminds

Originally posted by beezzer
instilling tolerance over knowledge only hurts those children that would benefit from both.

What aspect of this legislation insists upon tolerance over knowledge?

please site the specific wording.

Knowledge is power. It is a strength, a weapon, something once gained can never be taken away. This gay issue is irrelavent. It could have been "veganism", "yoga", "meditation", whatever.
When you hve a school system teaching agendas instead of knowledge, then you are stripping away the potential of an individual thinking for themselves.

I'd see it as a conspiracy to rob future generations of the ability to think critically. Sure, they will be tolerant, peaceful, kind, non-smoking vegans, who love mother earth and recycle. But will they be able to function in foreign environments?
Will they be able to think critically, problem solve, question authority?

As to your specific question, I could find no specific wording, but I hope that my narritive illustrates my position clearly.

reply to post by Helious

we should also teach why fuzzy handcuffs are sold, why there are holes in stalls at adult movie theaters and why they sell motorized "equipment" at your local lovers lane........

You seem so threatened about homosexuality being included in history, yet you are so knowledgeable on.....other exotic topics...

ere is an idea, don't openly display what you like sexually and you won't be treated any different,

Yeah, I would like to be able to hold my girlfriends hand without death threats, that's all. You hold hands in public right? maybe a peck on the cheek before parting? Well, if homosexuals aren't allowed to be proud of who they love, than neither can you.

Sex is best left in the bedroom, for everybody!

Or the living room, or the balcony, OR your friends living room, or in a public parking lot in a car, or on a city bus. And actually you know who taught me that? My hetero friends who get excited about (almost) public displays. So I will keep it in the bedroom if EVERYONE must.

crazy orgies, DPs, cuckold

So, so knowledgeable * shudder*

Being gay happens in ALL races, societies, cultures and geography which means that it deserves no special place in history because it is nothing more than sexual preference

War. War happens among all societies, cultures, races, people, creeds, religions.... But yet my history book was 90% war. Since it's so prevalent lets stop teaching about it too!!

Was there a society of all gays somewhere that did something we should know about?

Yes, yes there was. They were called the Spartans. Actually the majority of Greek and Roman men viewed women as purely reproductive material and serving their role as a wife. Other men were for fun in the hay.
Oh, and many Samurai had relationships with both men and women.

I DO recall learning in school about Leonardo Da Vinci, the iconic Renaissance man. I don't, however remember learning that he was gay. I always found it odd how accounts of his life never included relationships or marriages. I found it less than inspiring when my teacher had no answer for this. Only later did I learn that he was gay.

Sure teach it. but teach it as a footnote just like other aspects of a historical individual. None of Leonardo's art, advancements, or ideas had much to do with him being gay. So keep it as a simple anecdote to his life. It didn't define who he was but neither should it be excluded out of shame.

Originally posted by kylioneXsushi
reply to post by Helious

 

we should also teach why fuzzy handcuffs are sold, why there are holes in stalls at adult movie theaters and why they sell motorized "equipment" at your local lovers lane........

You seem so threatened about homosexuality being included in history, yet you are so knowledgeable on.....other exotic topics...

ere is an idea, don't openly display what you like sexually and you won't be treated any different,

Yeah, I would like to be able to hold my girlfriends hand without death threats, that's all. You hold hands in public right? maybe a peck on the cheek before parting? Well, if homosexuals aren't allowed to be proud of who they love, than neither can you.

Sex is best left in the bedroom, for everybody!

Or the living room, or the balcony, OR your friends living room, or in a public parking lot in a car, or on a city bus. And actually you know who taught me that? My hetero friends who get excited about (almost) public displays. So I will keep it in the bedroom if EVERYONE must.

crazy orgies, DPs, cuckold

So, so knowledgeable * shudder*

Being gay happens in ALL races, societies, cultures and geography which means that it deserves no special place in history because it is nothing more than sexual preference

War. War happens among all societies, cultures, races, people, creeds, religions.... But yet my history book was 90% war. Since it's so prevalent lets stop teaching about it too!!

Was there a society of all gays somewhere that did something we should know about?

Yes, yes there was. They were called the Spartans. Actually the majority of Greek and Roman men viewed women as purely reproductive material and serving their role as a wife. Other men were for fun in the hay.
Oh, and many Samurai had relationships with both men and women.

I DO recall learning in school about Leonardo Da Vinci, the iconic Renaissance man. I don't, however remember learning that he was gay. I always found it odd how accounts of his life never included relationships or marriages. I found it less than inspiring when my teacher had no answer for this. Only later did I learn that he was gay.

Sure teach it. but teach it as a footnote just like other aspects of a historical individual. None of Leonardo's art, advancements, or ideas had much to do with him being gay. So keep it as a simple anecdote to his life. It didn't define who he was but neither should it be excluded out of shame.

Multiple responses, very pish posh! Yes, I have been a bartender for 14 years, I am very knowledgeable about sex.... In all forms. My point is, not that you shouldn't be able to kiss your girlfriend or boyfriend when you wan't too, for Gods sake... OF COURSE YOU SHOULD. That shouldn't be an issue in my mind. Believe me, im not homophobic or think that it's sick or something, I think the opposite.

My argument comes from the perception that it doesn't make you different as far as something like history is concerned, history does not care if you kissed your girlfriend on the street at some point, it cares about contribution to humankind, for gods sake, gay people that liken themselves to the Aztecs or something......

History does not care about what you liked to do in the bedroom! Im sorry you encounter people in everyday life that make it hard for you to express your feelings to your loved one, I most definately would NOT be one of those people. Im just trying to make a point.

Originally posted by kylioneXsushi
reply to post by Helious

 

we should also teach why fuzzy handcuffs are sold, why there are holes in stalls at adult movie theaters and why they sell motorized "equipment" at your local lovers lane........

You seem so threatened about homosexuality being included in history, yet you are so knowledgeable on.....other exotic topics...

ere is an idea, don't openly display what you like sexually and you won't be treated any different,

Yeah, I would like to be able to hold my girlfriends hand without death threats, that's all. You hold hands in public right? maybe a peck on the cheek before parting? Well, if homosexuals aren't allowed to be proud of who they love, than neither can you.

Sex is best left in the bedroom, for everybody!

Or the living room, or the balcony, OR your friends living room, or in a public parking lot in a car, or on a city bus. And actually you know who taught me that? My hetero friends who get excited about (almost) public displays. So I will keep it in the bedroom if EVERYONE must.

crazy orgies, DPs, cuckold

So, so knowledgeable * shudder*

Being gay happens in ALL races, societies, cultures and geography which means that it deserves no special place in history because it is nothing more than sexual preference

War. War happens among all societies, cultures, races, people, creeds, religions.... But yet my history book was 90% war. Since it's so prevalent lets stop teaching about it too!!

Was there a society of all gays somewhere that did something we should know about?

Yes, yes there was. They were called the Spartans. Actually the majority of Greek and Roman men viewed women as purely reproductive material and serving their role as a wife. Other men were for fun in the hay.
Oh, and many Samurai had relationships with both men and women.

I DO recall learning in school about Leonardo Da Vinci, the iconic Renaissance man. I don't, however remember learning that he was gay. I always found it odd how accounts of his life never included relationships or marriages. I found it less than inspiring when my teacher had no answer for this. Only later did I learn that he was gay.

Sure teach it. but teach it as a footnote just like other aspects of a historical individual. None of Leonardo's art, advancements, or ideas had much to do with him being gay. So keep it as a simple anecdote to his life. It didn't define who he was but neither should it be excluded out of shame.

Also, why should I know that Leonardo was gay? What relevance does that have on his contribution to society? What if he liked to have rough sex with multiple older women at once, should they tell me that also?

I'm just curious as to what relevance a persons sexual preference has on historical reference, unless that sexual preference is in itself "racist"

Originally posted by beezzer


As to your specific question, I could find no specific wording, but I hope that my narritive illustrates my position clearly.

Oh, it does quite well.

You find no 'specific wording' because it isn't there and you clearly never even took the time to research the bill, much less even read the article the OP is based upon. But i see that doesn't stop you from plowing forward with your predetermined social conservative agenda and talking points.

But starting in the 2013-14 school year, it would prohibit districts and the California Board of Education from using textbooks or other instructional materials that reflect adversely on gay, bisexual and transgender Americans.

Originally posted by Helious


Hedrosexual people who enjoy choking there partner during sex are exactly the same as gay people,

You should make that your signature.

Opponents counter that such instruction would further burden an already crowded curriculum

The California curriculum is insanely easy. Our students learn a fraction of what other children learn in other developed countries.

STOP!!!! Don't you understand that it is the struggle to just be ourselves?! It doesn't have
anything to do with SEX! When somebody screams "faggot!" out there car window at me
while I'm walking down the street ALONE, tell me what that has to do with sex?! I'm dressed
like every other man, but maybe they happen to catch that my walk is a little feminine. That is
a huge problem, and a struggle for most gays every day. Stop talking about who we sleep with.
That part of the discussion doesn't matter.. It is a human struggle just like any other movement
where people were oppressed.

Originally posted by incrediblelousminds

Originally posted by Helious


Hedrosexual people who enjoy choking there partner during sex are exactly the same as gay people,

You should make that your signature.

ROFLMAO, Star for that, I enjoyed the argument, please understand that I in no way have anything negative towards gay people, just the gay community objective of trying to obtain rights and privileges outside of average American rights.

As someone stated, tolerance IS a two way street, and it is often travelled. Most of the gays I have met, I had no idea they were gay until they either decided to tell me, or someone spilled the beans for them, and my response was

As far as 'teaching' it in schools, I don't think they're going to be painting a graphic picture of homosexuality. I believe it's more along the lines of teaching cultural differences as well as social differences. Has anyone ever had a child come up to you while you're in a wheelchair and say something like "what's wrong with you?" or "why do you have no legs?" while the mother stands there shocked and not knowing what to say? I have witnessed this. Tolerance and knowledge CAN be one in the same, and it can be used as a weapon against ignorance.
As a mother it is my job to teach my child all different shades of tolerance. We are very good friends with a Navajo couple, and we have explained to him that (friend's name, about my son's age) does not cut his hair because it is tradition. Also, (friend) is darker skinned because he is Navajo, and we are not. My son does not have a huge span of vocabulary but has started asking questions, and what kids see, they ask about. Older children may say "why is that man darker than me?" "why is that woman's belly so big?" "why does ____ have # brothers/sisters and I have none?" are all going to come up at some point, and will be answered. Some are dreaded (where do babies come from) and some are much easier. I'm sure this curriculum will be for much older students, but the foundation will start at a young age when a child asks "why is that man holding that man's hand?", and if it were me, I honestly have no idea what I would say...I guess it would depend on the age of when it was asked.

Homosexuality is so openly displayed in modern times, I'm not surprised it will be taught as some kind of social aspect. It would make sense that instead of explaining the "history" of it, that maybe they will touch lightly(pun intended) on the more recent times, such as the fights for gay rights to be married and etc. I don't know exactly how it is intended to be taught, and it would definitely be strange if they edited the history books to explain Caesar, Susan B. Anthony, etc when that's absolutely not relevant...but, maybe they will simply say "In (year) there was proposal for gay marriage to become legal in (state) and this is how it turned out". That is just my simple 2 cents.

reply to post by Helious


Explain to me why I learned of Henry The 8ths many wives and what he did to them? Or the convoluted love lives of the Tudors? Queen Cleopatra's suitors and how she used sex as a bargaining chip for power.

I can go on, you know.

Originally posted by Doyder
STOP!!!! Don't you understand that it is the struggle to just be ourselves?! It doesn't have
anything to do with SEX! When somebody screams "faggot!" out there car window at me
while I'm walking down the street ALONE, tell me what that has to do with sex?! I'm dressed
like every other man, but maybe they happen to catch that my walk is a little feminine. That is
a huge problem, and a struggle for most gays every day. Stop talking about who we sleep with.
That part of the discussion doesn't matter.. It is a human struggle just like any other movement
where people were oppressed.

Your walk is perhaps a "little" different but the majority does not do you justice by going out of there way to change all of there mannerisms, accent, gestures and the overall way they act. It doesn't happen because you feel a certain way inside, it is done for attention and to announce in most cases and that mentality is what is drawing the negative attention from the everyday person who disdains.

reply to post by kylioneXsushi

Well, clearly it is the pro-multiple wives agenda forcing that information down your throat instead of teaching you math.

reply to post by Helious


Obviously the OP thinks gay people are not a part of history, but merely figments of our imagination, like unicorns.

Originally posted by kylioneXsushi
reply to post by Helious

 

Explain to me why I learned of Henry The 8ths many wives and what he did to them? Or the convoluted love lives of the Tudors? Queen Cleopatra's suitors and how she used sex as a bargaining chip for power.

I can go on, you know.

Easy, all of the people you spoke of were either Catholic which by design in any origin must be depicted in man and women relationships because that is what has been handed down by god in that religion or when describing Cleopatra, she had many suitors because they all wanted to her to bore there child, that being important as it pertained to the royal family of Egypt.

Kind of hard to bore a royal bound offspring between Cleopatra and her girlfriend. Lets face it, men and women have children, while there is nothing wrong with being homosexual, it is not the direction nature meant us to take, if it was we would all be asexual. There will be some mention about suiters and births cause ummmm.... Thats just real history.