Hamas' Powerful New Weapon Alters Strategic Calculations Along the Gaza Strip

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by nenothtu

 

It also looks like a scorched Earth field to the right of the bus in that photo. Must've been a hell of a fire ball attached.

Zoom in..That does not look like newly burnt shrub..
Also the luggage door on the right is also open but looks in perfect shape..
They may have opened those two if there was still any fire in the engine..

Looks newly burnt to me - I can see what appears to be white ash among the scorch, which would disappear pretty quick, and no green growing out from the scorch, The luggage compartment probably WAS opened after the fact, either to fight the fire or check for more damages in the investigation.

reply to post by P3ACE0WAR


I buy that...

In asia they do that..

Hard to get use to asking for "rice fried" rather than "fried rice"

reply to post by nenothtu

Looks newly burnt to me - I can see what appears to be white ash among the scorch, which would disappear pretty quick, and no green growing out from the scorch, The luggage compartment probably WAS opened after the fact, either to fight the fire or check for more damages in the investigation.

You remember they just had huge fires in Israel?
They did to safety burn offs after..

Yes, the door looks like they opened it..
I mentioned that because another poster said it was blown open which is a bit odd considering the luggage compartments are fully walled inside..

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by nenothtu

 

It says specifically that they targeted the bus, rather than tanks or artillery. I took "in the way of" to mean "along the route used by". It doesn't say they knew it was a school bus, but that's immaterial to me. If it wasn't painted green and bristling with gun barrels, it wasn't a legitimate military target.

It does seem odd that they didn't mention the weapon used. If they wanted to crow about testing out a new device, seems like that would have been the place for it.

Yeah but did you see the other members post that knows Arabic?
According to them the bus was not targeted..

Could be that they fired mortars or whatever at the tanks and artillery but accidentally hit the bus..
I don't believe it was a guided missile so that theory fits..

I'm going by Hamas' own translation from their own web site, which clearly specifies that the bus was intentionally targeted, but appears to be trying to put a military twist on it some how. Like I said, if it wasn't painted green and bristling with gun barrels, it wasn't a legitimate military target no matter how they try to spin it on their own site. My own Arabic is pretty rusty these days, so I'll take Hamas' word for it. I had a Palestinian stay here for a couple of nights a month or two ago, and found that my Arabic ain't what it used to be, so I'll rely on Hamas themselves to translate it for me rather than try to puzzle it out myself, possibly incorrectly.

reply to post by nenothtu


So what's the Arabic word for intentionally ??

Originally posted by P3ACE0WAR
reply to post by nenothtu

 

The translation word by word, forgetting the grammar differences between English and Arabic skews the meaning.

Do you know any other language other than Arabic which I might be able to give you an example of? I also am familiar with Urdu, Persian and Dari. I can give one for Urdu speaking people.

When you translate word by word "who are you" from Urdu to English, it becomes something like this, "you who are". See the grammar issue which I talk of? When you translate the Arabic version of the statement it has a different meaning, it means the target was simply that area where the bus was traveling, not the bus. Word for word translation has cause the word bus to come after target which makes many believe the target was the bus.

edit on 15-4-2011 by P3ACE0WAR because: (no reason given)

Tiny bit of Urdu, and a smattering of Pashtun, studied ancient Greek, speak English and Shawnee. Most of the middle eastern languages I knew I haven't used in years, and I can't thrash out Greek any more either (despite a couple of years of study at university in it) beyond just reading the letters and recalling a few meanings. I can stumble along in Spanish still. Can read Cyrillic letters, but don't speak Russian.

I see what you mean though. Different syntax. Some languages are constructed so that the object has to be in a certain place relative to the subject, and others rely on some other mechanism (I believe arabic generally uses prefixes and suffixes) to tell which is which. Seems that Hamas would have translators that account for that on an English Hamas website.

Originally posted by backinblack

You remember they just had huge fires in Israel?
They did to safety burn offs after..

That could account for it, and the juxtaposition just be coincidental. It was worrisome, since there appears to be a solvent spill at the rear of the bus, either oil or gas, that shouldn't be there if there was a fire intense enough to set the grass fire there.

Yes, the door looks like they opened it..
I mentioned that because another poster said it was blown open which is a bit odd considering the luggage compartments are fully walled inside..

Only way that could have been blown open would have been in the momentary expansion of the metal during the explosion, "popping" it open rather than blowing it open with explosive force. I'm opting for it having been intentionally opened by a person.

reply to post by nenothtu


I'm surprised you know Pushtu, that is great, I also know a little, trying to catch up with some Pushtun friends I have. senga, jorae, pakhare? That's the usual greeting in tradition Pushtuns, very Afghanish

Anyways, the Qassam website translation doesn't seem to be proper translation rather word for word. If it was proper translation the statement wouldn't have so many syntax and grammatical problems.

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by nenothtu

 

So what's the Arabic word for intentionally ??

عمدا
or

قصدا

Edit to add: Damn that came out tiny!

Originally posted by P3ACE0WAR
reply to post by nenothtu

 

I'm surprised you know Pushtu, that is great, I also know a little, trying to catch up with some Pushtun friends I have. senga, jorae, pakhare? That's the usual greeting in tradition Pushtuns, very Afghanish

Anyways, the Qassam website translation doesn't seem to be proper translation rather word for word. If it was proper translation the statement wouldn't have so many syntax and grammatical problems.

Most of what I recall from those days involves the Pashtunwali - nanawatay, badal, milmasita, that sort of thing. I never did know how to transliterate those to English correctly, but that's how they're pronounced. For a greeting I always used the standard Arabic as-salaam alaykum/ wa' alaykum as-salaam.

Word for word translations often have problems. I've forgotten how to read a lot of Arabic script, although I can still sign my name in Arabic, and if given enough time I can puzzle other stuff out. For example a few years ago I ran across an old military smock in the "night desert" pattern, probably from the first Gulf War. It had a name embroidered directly on it, rather than on a name tape, and it surprised me when I read "Farley" in Arabic rather than an Arab name!

It might help here if you could provide a proper translation of that part in question to English. My Arabic just isn't up to it, and I don't have any Arabic speaking friends handy here at the moment to translate it for me.

I see 2 different articles, both from Israeli sources that have clear conflicts ........ !!!!!

1. from "israel insider"

One or more terrorists fired a powerful anti-tank weapon at a bus carrying Israeli children home from school, injuring several students, one critically.

It was the first time an anti-tank rocket has targeted a civilian vehicle. It reportedly was fired from behind the Gaza border.

The boy, 16, was wounded by shrapnel, causing him to lose consciousness. Even after an emergency operation, his condition remains critical.

2. from "Ministry of Foreign Affairs"

Two people were wounded on Thursday, 7 April 2011, by an anti-tank missile launched from the Gaza Strip at a yellow school bus near the Sha'ar Hanegev Regional Council. One of the injured, a 16 year-old boy, is in critical condition. He was airlifted to Soroka Medical Center in Beersheba, where he is currently being treated for severe trauma. The driver was lightly wounded.

The teenager, Daniel Viflic, had been visiting his grandmother for a few days, and went for a ride with the bus driver, who is a friend of the family. The driver had finished dropping off the last school children five minutes before the bus was hit. Anti-tank missiles, unlike rockets and mortars, are accurate weapons fired at a chosen target.

then we see pics with teddy bears.

if all the kids were off the bus, WHY so many toys left behind ????



and in one pic from "Ministry of Foreign Affairs" we see the bus on a road.

www.mfa.gov.il...

and in another pic from "Alternet" we see the same bus ??? on what looks like a different road ???

www.alternet.org...


and a third pic from a post from another thread: www.abovetopsecret.com...

shows the bus on a road with a double center-lane line.


the pic from the "Ministry of Foreign Affairs"

www.mfa.gov.il...

we see the road has a single center-lane line ***???!!!!!!!

can somebody get all the bus pictures in one place and let's see the real "picture" !!!


p.s.I posted this on the other thread also www.abovetopsecret.com...
(P3ACEOWAR)

reply to post by xuenchen


Honestly all these things do look rather suspect and it looks like who ever damaged the bus waited for it to have all the children off, with the one child being on it not actually supposed to be on the bus.

So we have to ask our selves some hard questions.

1. If Hamas specifically wanted to target a bus for the shock value of hurting school children then wouldn't they want a full bus full of children?

2. Would not Hamas have known based on what time of day school gets out, and that particurlar bus's route that at the point they were attacking it that it would have no children on it?

3. If you were the Mossad and you were going to target a bus in a false flag would you be more inclined or less inclined for the bus to be full or empty?

4. Was the Bus Driver working with the Mossad a 'Patriot' that knew his bus would be attacked by the Mossad and was his 16 year old nephew who 'idolizes' him along for the right to be a Patriot too, knowing like his Uncle he might sustain some injuries in the course of a propaganda coup?

It all looks very suspicious, great work on the pictures my friend.

reply to post by nenothtu

Odd that I was told a similar story about the "Couple Thousand Years War" by a Syrian around 1978. In his version, though, Rome had already been defeated. According to him, Syria would not now exist as a bastion of Islam if the Romans hadn't been defeated by the Muslims. He said Syria was a Roman area before the Muslims handed Rome's own ass back to it, and just took Syria from them.

It's true the whole area was Roman including Judea and Samaria, both of which are Roman names. But there are two things to consider Islam is really but an extension of Roman Catholicism with some twists, same God, Jesus is a prophet but not the Son of God and an additional Prophet, Mohamed simply fine tunes the religion a bit further to create a necessary division to set up a 'statist' race in colonizing the world by eliminating or Romanizing all first world's people with some basic common principles in Trade and Commerce, Law, and religion.

When the Iranian President greets a talk show host like Larry King with a Master Mason's handshake it might cause an astute observer to question just how divided the leaders are of these states, all contracted to Rome at one point in time, many with International Corporations owned by the principle oligarchs more or less running their economies.

I contend Rome faked it's own death to set up a more efficient system of Statism and Divide and Conquer that was economically less costly as well.

Do keep in mind that the present system run by the Vatican of Dioces which are Roman States cover the world, each ruled by a Cardinal whose Blood Red Robes are meant to signify the blood that they are willing to spill for Rome.

Israel "kick out the zionists" and make peace ( I presume you mean for them to make peace with Islam) at what price?

The original accord that the Palestinians thought would represent the Post Ottoman Status Quo called for one state, named Palestine with 48% of the land going to the Jews in a semi-atonymous region, 52% of the land going to the Palestinians in a semi-atonymous region, meaning neither would actually be in charge of the state but that each would have a region of basic self governance within the state, with Jerusalem belonging to Rome and the Holly See in perpituity and an International Body governing the over all state.

I think this is what the Palestinians really want, what they were originally promised, and yes that would be the destruction of Israel on Paper since it was never meant to exist on Paper in the original treaty but does not specifically call for, nor do I think it is meant to imply the physical exterimination of every Jew living on the land.

Is the price of that too high? Well it seemed like a great deal to the Zionists who first agreed to it, and the Jewish Refugees streaming out of Europe who had no place else to go.

The Zionists once encamped in Palestine constantly plotted for more including buying key swaths of lands to block nomadic herding routes, deliberate efforts like that to make the Arab economy untennable by design and buying key swaths of land to make sure that the Palestinians could not have a contiquous 52% of the land.

These things are glossed over and ignored in Zionist History but they are very much a part of real history including the bloody terrorist campaigns carried out by the Jews to kick out the International Parties the British and the UN, to terrorize Jews into not doing any kind of business with the Arabs that would aide their economy and attacks on Palestinians too, including and up to masacaring entire villages in the dead of the night every man, woman and child.

Simply put while the Palestinians are guilty of many political blunders when it came to understanding the machinations of the much more worldly British and Zionists the tensions that quickly developed, developed because the Zionists really did not want to honor the original deal.

So from a legal standpoint, treaties, honoring them, working within the constructs of the law, etc. the Zionists really did commit a lot of crimes early on with bad intent.

That shouldn't be overlooked in all the emotional propaganda to flow out of there since.

Death really IS prefferrable to some of the price tags attached to some things these days, and one of those price tags seems to be the eradication of Israel anyhow, so what difference does it make to them if they go down swinging or go down whimpering? Dead is still dead, in either case.

I believe the Palestinians were more than prepared to accept 'honest' Zionist and Jewish settlement within the frame work of the original agreement. We will never know since the Zionists began conspiring almost immediately against every party to the agreement through a number of tactics laid out in the Zionist manefesto used by the Jewish Terrorist Groups and Militias detailing how to achieve the 'greater Isreal' they wanted, versus the 48% of Palestine that the International Body had alloted them.

Yes after Yitzak Shamir murdered the UN Special Envoy and the British withdrew because the cost in Blood they were paying in administering the Mandate became too high, blood that the Jews were spilling not the Arabs and Israel declared Statehood in violation of the Agreements grabbing for more land at the same time, the hastily put together Arab armies tried to pick up and enforce what the British and UN could not because of Jewish Malfeasance.

Is that really much or any different than the coalitions we are always putting together to right wrongs?

Not really.

Many would argue and argue with a lot of valid points that the Zionists instigated the Hostilities to suit themselves and their grab for a greater Israel.

However I do believe the Palestinians are prepared to honor the original accord and that would mean a rather propserous situation of free trade for both and us not having to spend billions in this violent process of maintaining the Military Status Quo in Israel.

However I suspect it is our own Oil Companies the International Oligarchs who prefer the current arrangement because it keeps the price of oil insanely high and it furthers Rome plan along which basically is one huge climatic battle fought over Israel before the implementation of a one world government to rid the world of the religiously inclined and the power of the Statist Militaries.

Isreal is toast if it does not make peace. It's also going to require us additionally going after the oligarchs, like the banks and the oil companies and their well hidden owners of preferred stock who are also principles of the Military Industrial Complex.

As far as Christianity, Judaism, and Islam being outlawed in a NWO goes, that's been done to all of the above (well, maybe not Islam - I don't know of anywhere it has ever been outlawed) before. Oddly, it tended to strengthen the other two and give them more converts every time it's been tried. Probably a bad strategy, but it's Rome's to pursue if they wish.

You know you and I have had our differences of oppinion but I actually like you and consider you to be a decent man.
As a resiliant man with some signifigant military experience and capable of improvisation you are no doubt a formidable man and one not to trifle with.

However having said that, how do you imagine you would really fare with what you have at hand against a host of technologies that are on line, being brought on line, and perhaps some secretly being held off line, that are well a whole lot more effective than a sling shot, musket or a M-16?

We have grown a huge military industrial complex of immense capabilities much of it now automated and remote controlled.

How many drone attacks can you withstand in your mountain hide away? How many infared and night vision sattelites can you hide from and for how long in the woods?

How long can you hold out off the grid before you are going to have to pop up on it, will you be able to fool retina scans, and dna identification tests?

Don't discount the technology they are bringing on line, their resolve to use it, because while we all cry about this school bus we all know darn well our militaries have been butchering children forever.

We aren't all arguing over Israel for and against for no reason, it isn't kept in the forefront of the news for no reason, it's existence hasn't led to the tensions that have allowed for the security state and the loss of our rights for no reason, it's not an accident, it's not a coincidence it's a plan.

A plan set in motion a long time ago, a plan to divide us and make our passions run hot in a very long war of divide and conquer and a central part to the endgame of ending that war and declaring a New World Order.

Pick your side carefully, for the eventual destruction of Israel and it is going to be destroyed is going to go hand in hand with the destruction of all of our ways of life and most of us.

Look to the Georgia Guide Stones, the hidden men driving this control the oil, the banks, the food supplies, the communications, and the most sophistated aspects of the Military Industrial Complex.

They control everything we all need to live, the use it to manipulate us all, and they really do want to lord over and control us all in a world that they will always have absolute control of.

We have in fact handed them foolishly almost everything they need to do that.

Do you really want to bet they won't use it against us when they always have done just that?

I don't recommend it, it's not what you know or what you think you know that is going to kill you on this planet, it's the things that you don't know.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Pink thong? Help him up? Riiiight, because he is bleeding profusely from the wound he sustained while slipping on the deck and landing on his own knife, right?

Even Rueters have admitted they doctored the pictures. Your simply in denial. While I can admit Isreal make mistakes, you will never believe anyone doing anything against Isreal could be wrong. Your willfully blind.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

 

Sources are neccisary to go back and double check facts and see the context the quoted / cited material is in. Absent cited sources its difficult to completely accept "facts", since those "facts" cant be verified. Its even more important when those facts are being used to help guide a debate from one side to the other.

Absent cited sources, where both sides of the argument can see the exact same thing and debate from their, its nothing but your position with no way to confirm or refute your claims.

I ask for this, especially in threads like these, because of the passion on both sides of the argument. People have a tendancy to throw out a "fact" when in reality, its not a fact because the context is missing, or defining info is ommited in an effort to support a statement / position with that the "fact".

I just completed an analysis on the Libyan invasion for a political course; I ended it with 11 pages of sources. So thanks for the redundant and probably self-gratifying lesson on sources.

I will say it again, this message board contains discussions. The discussions we make produce our own conclusions based on the evidence we gather. We are our own source. Why do we need outside sources to back up the points that we ourselves have concluded, based on evidence from the sources that you yourself provided?

Originally posted by nightbringr
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Pink thong? Help him up? Riiiight, because he is bleeding profusely from the wound he sustained while slipping on the deck and landing on his own knife, right?

Even Rueters have admitted they doctored the pictures. Your simply in denial. While I can admit Isreal make mistakes, you will never believe anyone doing anything against Isreal could be wrong. Your willfully blind.

Oh so the aide ship basically did what, accidently rammed several Israeli Helicopters forcing the commandos inside them to fall into the aide ship?

The Aide ship did nothing against Israel, it was Israel that undertook a hostile action towards it.

Do you have any idea how rediculous your statements are?

The aide ship was going to Gaza, not Israel, so in reality no one did a darn thing to hurt Israel on that aide-ship until Isreal attacked it in the dead of the night in an illegal act of piracy on the high seas in a murderous attempt to enforce an illegal blockade on Gaza.

Amazingly you wonder why no one takes you seriously, when you can't even be honest about what happens right in front of everyone's eyes who can clearly see for themselves.

Your pink thong wearing commando was not on the crew of that ship and boarded it illegally without the captains permission on the high seas. He's lucky he didn't get hung at the yardarm, which is every pirates due.

reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi


Evidently in some peoples mind only certain media outlets and governments have the ability to present anything factual or critical on the Internet.

Any thing that deviates from adds to detracts from those official stories is not valid unless the same official sources later state it is so!

It's kind of insane but some people are just that way, they live and breath for official stories.

Official stories that usually have holes in them big enough to drive a school bus through.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


You mean like your bashing of people who dont use sources that YOU find to be acceptable?

How hypocritical can you get

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Oh, but it WAS headed to Israel!

Last i checked, Gaza was sovergeign Israeli property. Palestine is not recognized by the West or Israel. Therefore, to Israel, they were simply excersizing their right to defend themselves.

Funny think was, 2 messages ago you stated that no one hurt him, and they were trying to help him, simply holding his knife while he got up (roflmao). THEN in the next message you state they were defending themselves. Which is it?

Not sure why you dont say people dont take me seriously. If i look at your messages on the France banning the Burka thread, it would seem most people dont take you seriously there either. Even people who are usually on your side think your daft on that point.

But alas, argueing with paranoids who think the whole world is out to get them (ie. Rome), is pointless. Youve convinced yourself that the West and Israel are the root of all evil, and no amount of argueing will change that.

I personally think the blame is spread around a little more evenly.