Do the Terminally Ill Have a Right to Die?

Originally posted by Frontkjemper
reply to post by sugarcookie1

 

Our bodies, our choices. If you are ill, can't take the medication, the pain your illness inflicts upon you, it's your choice to keep on trucking or pull over to the side and quit. I know it's hard on the families, but it's not them going through the illness (or whatever else) that's making their lives unbearable to live.

yes i agree Our bodies, our choices that's how it should be for any one ..thanks for replying

This made me curious about how and if any other cultures accept euthanasia and I found that some cultures do, and here is a representative map.
en.wikipedia.org...:Euthanasia_and_the_Legality.png
I live in Oregon and we are one of the few states that has created a Death With Dignity Act.
Oregon Death With Dignity
I believe it is a human right to exercise this for oneself. I know I would not want to suffer or be kept barely alive for the sake of it. I would not want to bestow the medical costs on my loved ones. This is why it is so important to have a plan or some legal alternatives in place, imo.
I think more states could get this legislation if the people got involved and brought some attention to the issue. Dr Krevorkian of course brought this notion to the mainstream some years ago, and Oregonians got involved. Yes we are a "speak up" kind of folk out here.

Peace,
spec

Originally posted by wevebeenassimilated
I've seen posts talking of terminal illnesses but so far no one has mentioned anything about the aged. There are two people very dear to me; one is mid 80's with severe Alzheimer's and the other is early 80's with a sound mind but who recently had a stroke on top of a myriad of other health problems.

The fine lady with the Alzheimer's was happy and vibrant just a few short years ago and enjoyed life to the fullest. She found beauty in everything and fault in no one. Now she doesn't want to eat, is incontinent (sp?) goes into fits of rages where she sounds like "Turrets Guy" only worse...mind you she never cursed prior to this. She is so thin and frail that the slightest thing will bruise her skin or worse yet cut her skin. Most of the time she doesn't know where she is and she has lived in the same house for over 40 years. A promise was made to her (as well as to her husband before his death) that she would not be placed in a nursing home. Taking care of her at home is not quite as costly as a nursing home, however, it is extremely emotionally taxing on the entire family. I cannot imagine that she would choose to continue to live this way IF she were able to make a conscious choice. Additionally, about 7 or so years ago she had a living will written in the event that she becomes hospitalized she does not want to be kept alive by the use of breathing apparatus and/or feeding tubes

The other wonderful woman who recently had a stroke has had ever increasing health problems for the past six years. Six years ago she suffered a series of heart attacks and had a quadruple bi pass. She has diabetes, thyroid problems, intestinal bleeding...I could go on and on. She has said to me many times (not that this is something I enjoy hearing) that she is worn out and tired, that she would like to be able to just take something and "go to sleep". She said that she has had a good long life, but feels now like life is dealing her a cruel hand by making her suffer so. She (as I think I have seen in a few of the previous posts) has used the dog analogy. "They don't let old, tired dogs suffer." She said to me, "So why should old tired people suffer? We have lived our life, raised our kids and grand kids and great-grand kids too; we should have some say over when and how we go."

I cried reading your post.. that is so sad and certainly no way for anyone to live there life i think the elderly are the forgotten ones they most certainly should be allowed to pass the way they wish why prolong all that suffering they just want to let go i say let them..

Originally posted by Death_Kron
reply to post by sugarcookie1

 

Put simply, I believe each and everyone of us has the right to choose to die, it's our life so....

(obviously except from individuals who have a mental condition or similiar affecting their judgement)

I agree with you and thanks

My position on this issue is pretty straightforward: we consider it morally reprehensible to force a suffering dog to continue on in agony. The fact that we don't extend such basic mercy to fellow human beings is sickening.

Originally posted by IIIiIIIIIIiIII
Okay.

My mother died of cancer almost 5 years ago. She had to be rushed to hospital one morning after about 5 years of cancer because we could not wake her up.

She was in and out of consciousness for a week, and then died.

She was in such bad shape that I even asked a nurse if there was any way that we could 'speed it up' and she just looked at me and gave a small nod.

Anyway, I think that it is a good idea, but I also think that life insurance will come into play. They won't want thair valued customers dying by their own terms. To them, that's bad. I can see them (insurance companies) refusing people who choose euthenasia if it ever becomes legal, but I think this will only happen in the early stages.

I believe euthenasia will become legal once a more secure and fool-proof control-grid comes in to play. I'm sure that if you have life insurance, or you simply want to register your wishes to be euthenised when it gets bad in the future, you will fill out a contract that states that you will live a life that is free of such carcinogens such as cigarettes, drugs and alcohol, as these cost the tax-payer many dollars if problems arise because of them.

Your credit card (cash-less society) will not let you buy such items, and on top of this scheduled blood tests will make sure you are keeping clean. Who knows, you may get caught on a bio-metric CCTV-scanner-camera drinking alcohol on the street that your buddy bought you.

It will be moments like that when you will be denied euthenasia and fined, possibly having to go through a suspension period until you are allowed to apply again, with penalties such as higher registration costs and a heightened age upon which you are allowed to use the service.

You were once allowed to use euthenasia at 60, but seeing as you broke the law, you now have to wait until you are 65 or 70 before you are eligible for it.




The future will be a real mess, and should be euthenised.

edit on 14/03/2011 by IIIiIIIIIIiIII because: Had to euthenise a sentence.

I believe euthanasia will become legal at some point and time ..But i don't believe in your contract idea that's way over the top but you never know with the government what they may dream up...and im very sorry to hear about your mothers passing..

Originally posted by PrinceDreamer
I do believe that everyone has the right to die how they see fit, whether due to illness or not, it is their life and their choice, but making euthanasia legal does present its own problems both moral and ethical.

For example, who administers the lethal dose? You, do you give a killing injection to your own mother or father? Do you give an killing injection to your own child? Are you prepared for the issues and consequences afterwards? Do you ask a doctor who has sworn an oath to preserve life to break that oath? Do we create a new profession for ghoul like people to go out and administer the death shot?

And who makes the decision to administer it? At what point does the patient lose the right to choose for themselves? What if one sibling wants to administer the kill shot but another doesn't, who has the final say? Do we leave it to the doctors to decide? What if the system is abused by hospital administrators (the living proof of vampires if I ever saw one) Give the death shot to case that are less profitable to the hospital, while keeping others suffering because they can claim more from insurances companies.

How do you ensure that the patient is not pressured by greedy relatives? Money can be a very evil motivator for some people so how do we protect against this?

As I said I am all for euthanasia, well I am not for it as such, I mean I am all for people having total choice over their lives and deaths where possible, but you cant call for euthanasia to be legalised without covering all the permutations first and offering a framework for it to work in

Those are all good thoughts many that i have thought about myself.. i don't know how any of it will come into play for many.. those are alot of the reasons euthanasia is not legal..

Originally posted by TerryMcGuire
reply to post by sugarcookie1

 

Ya know there was this movie, Soylent Green. It was about a future with not enough food for everyone.
A very grim place and time. Everything is crowded and dirty. Few people ever get to see the beauty of nature any more , just the big over crowded city.

Anyway, this old man has had enough of it all and goes to this establishment where he is given a nice hot bath, his first in years, and a nice final meal. He is guided to a nice room where he lays down in a nice clean robe in a nice clean bed by some nice clean women.

They ask him what he would like to listen to and he says something classical. The room is rigged with stereo and begins playing Beethoven while on the wraparound walls there is displayed a 3d vision of a pristine earth with wild animals and waterfalls and stuff. He then falls asleep in his own time and just dosen't wake up.

How sweet is that? Of course the big secret kicker at the end is that his body is rendered down along with all the others and turned into food bars for the starving masses. So much for pathos.

Terry, I saw the movie Soylent Green and the death scene was exquisite just fall asleep and never wake up..the big secret kicker being made into a food bar really got to me lol

Originally posted by Dock9
If there were euthanasia booths on every street, in the same way as ATM's,
then I believe demand would be high

Far as I'm concerned, people should be able to end their lives at any time - healthy or not

This world is a zoo, an insane-asylum, as anyone with an ounce of intelligence soon works out

If we don't like a movie - we leave

If we don't like an hotel - we leave

If we don't like a party - we leave

If we don't like a relationship or marriage - we leave

If we don't like a life or a planet or dimension - we should be allowed to leave also without interference from overpaid clergy or corrupt politicians

.
Who are these people who claim ' every life is sacred ' ? Where did they learn that rubbish ? How dare they chant it to others ?

Every life is sacred, huh ? So what about those 1,000 people who were hacked to death by axes this weekend, for example ? Obviously their killers didn't believe they were sacred. Nor did the 'angels' or 'god'. They died horribly while people in ATS were chatting

No one has the right to take their own life ? Really ? Because it inflicts suffering on their families ? Really ?

But they sign up to kill and be killed in their governments' orchestrated wars, don't they ? And when they ship out to kill people they don't know, overseas, did you know the government ships out their body-bags, along with them ?

And the clergy button their mouths, don't they ? And governments send them off to kill and die ? And that's ok, is it ? Neither their lives nor the lives of those they kill with their superior weapons - are 'sacred ' ? And their families suffer when their rotting corpses are brought back 'home' and they're buried with the nation's flag flying. But that's ok, apparently. Because to sugar-coat the slaughter, the dead are claimed to have 'died for their country '. Sure. Nice touch. Even though those wars were CAUSED by their country ! And those killed by their country were NO threat to the families weeping into their handkerchiefs at the graveside of the 'heroes'

So -- you're allowed to die if you first kill total strangers on the other side of the globe

But the self-righteous bible-thumpers will call you names if you choose to die because the world sucks

Personally, I look forward to the day when suicide-booths exists alongside hotels, brothels, drug-dens, filthy banks and fast-food halls

And it's my opinion that people should automatically be put to death (painlessly) at age 75, with a bonus in the form of a waiving of death-duties for those who elect to die earlier. It would free-up resources (housing, hospitals, etc.) to a huge degree and would spare people the problem of sick and ageing parents. Most of all, it would provide what people need most -- a cut-off date. If people knew they were going to die on their 75th birthday, they'd put more into (and get more out of ) life. And it would remove the worry of being burdens of their families and of being forced to endure years of decay. After all, when a woman's pregnant, she knows when the child will be born. Makes sense that people know when they'll die, also.

But most of all, I hope one day there will be a Death/Exit Day -- same as Earth Day -- when everyone on the planet will, in unison, exit the planet .... kill themselves in protest. When the elite are faced with a worldwide strike action such as International Death Day, it will be an end to their power. It will be an end to the power and control currently wielded by religions. It will be a kick in the teeth to whatever gets its kicks imposing misery and suffering upon billions of humans

After all, it's a given that we're all going to die anyway. It's time WE decided the terms

edit on 3-4-2011 by Dock9 because: a tidy up

I agree it's a given that we're all going to die.. It's time WE decided the terms..But the rest of your post i don't agree with.. suicide-booths on every street???
International Death Day?? you need to get a grip on life.. a cut-off date for life?? I agree we all have a option on how our life should end but your idea is just nuts! thank for your reply

Originally posted by Hawking
EVERYONE without dependents has the right to die. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

Thank you for your reply

My wife and I have discussed this in depth and while we have both taken the steps to include a living will since some in our families tend to the religiously whacked side and we feel the need to take away their ability to object.

I personally don’t want my family to lose all I have built to sting me out for another 6 months living in a home 45 miles away with strangers for both financial and psychological reasons (theirs and mine).

Sure if there is some chance of recovery I guess but not for another 6 months or a year of low quality life. Only the individual has the right to make the decision what is best for him/her or family in this situation – it has nothing (or should have nothing, I should say rather…) to do with government or the insurance company.

I can only think of Johnny Got His Gun as a point of reference for what it must be like to be trapped in your own body by the wondrous “advances to medical science” as they string our your suffering along as you descend into insanity and loneliness. I am not anti-war just right to die so don’t get all rogue on me for the book choice; it's just a classic narrative of how I suspect one would feel in a helpless trapped state - ala Terry Shrivo (sp).

We (my wife and I) even went so far as to promise each other that should the other wish it (and could communicate it or has done so prior – neither of us wishes to live in a quadriplegic state; I know lots of people do but I don’t want to be one of them) and was for some reason – paralysis or inability to control limbs etc physically unable to do so for ourselves we would do it for each other.

That said, we would have to wait until any legal ramifications would not affect the others ability to remain a parent to our child as we could not jeopardize that status under our current laws. I told her to just put the gun in my hand and leave the room (I have lived violently; I have no problem dying that way – good enough for the horses, good enough for me); that way she doesn’t have any guilt for having played a part – more plausible deniability for her is my reasoning. She said she’s to an overdose of sleeping pills and Percocet – I guess for the same reasons.

I guess if she were totally out of it; and I wasn’t worried about legal implications (after our kid is grown), I could use any combination of the veterinary drugs we have on hand at the farm like Butorphanol which is a pain killer for animal use; Domosedan a sedative for horses and I have like two horse size doses of 1 each pentobarbital and sodium thiopental on hand at all times for a tragic circumstance should it occur. Probably enough to dose several humans I bet… I suppose she’ll let me know when the time comes.

We are dairy farmers and deal with euthanasia a lot on the farm for all manner of animals from fowl to fur, both large and small. I will go to some pretty costly veterinary measures to save an animal and don’t make my decisions strictly on the basis of profit though it does enter into the equation at some point. I try to guage the degree of suffering and the stress of the immobility/impact/stress of recovery on their species type.

I had a dog who was terrified of the vet for some reason and when we found out she had cushings (adrenal cancer). Doctor said she could live for several years more with some vet care...but I couldn't do it to her. Relatively speaking for as much as I loved that dog the cost was minima for the vet treatment. I chose to put her down instead (had a vet come to the house and do it right there on the bed we shared...at night) rather than subject her to the abject terror of weekly vet visits for the possibility of a couple years more of life.

However, on the other hand I paid a crap load for a surgery on a horse (twisted bowl obstruction) because it as a short recovery and minimal change to her lifestyle – she was 18 years old at the time as well – for 74 cents I could have put her down but that was 5 years ago and I rode her this week. Great horse!

It amazes me that we afford our and pets (which in the view of the law are property more or less) more respect and or dignity at the end of their lives than we do each other and we don’t have any way other than intuition to determine their degree of suffering or will to live.

We can just tell each other (in most cases) what we want…it’s that simple.

I recommend a strongly worded and comprehensive living will!

Originally posted by capgrup
Sugarcookie;

I respect and understand where you are coming from. I do not have a terminal illness
but do live in constant pain. I do not believe I would still be here if I had to deal with
both. You are a stronger person than I am.

I do feel that it is our decision, with some understanding from our families if we choose
to go this route. My family and I have talked about this for some time. They see what
living in pain has done to me and how it affects the way I live my life. While I know they
would not want me to do myself in; I believe they would understand. Besides, living for
years on narcotics has probably destroyed my kidneys and liver like it did my heart.

The best thing is to have a Do Not Resucitate in your records. That is one thing about the V.A.
They make sure your Living Will is updated constantly.

Good Luck to You. Remember that those who tell you that you are wrong do not live your
life. If you want to talk feel free to u2u me.

capgrup, i want to thank you for your reply and i do understand what pain can do to a person i live on a mirage of pain meds along with a ton of other meds to many to count just to eat a meal i take up to 13 pills to digest my food..pain eats at your soul along with your body.. with my illness to look at me you would never know i had any illness its an unseen thing but my body is screaming inside..I do have Do Not Resuscitate in my records and my lawyer has it in his and my Dr knows my wishes along with my husband ..and your right they don't live my life but i do like to hear others thoughts on the subject ..be well my friend

I believe that one should be able to end his or her own life at any point. Yes it may be selfish in the eyes of others, but its ones own choice. I had 3 hernias while i was in the Army and i have chronic nerve damage from the surgeries and have to walk with a cane on occasion. Most days it feels like someone is sticking a hot iron into my nut.

Sometimes the pain is so intense that I feel I'm going insane. I would not wish this upon anyone. I'm 24 and can barely handle the pain. I couldn't imagine being 60, 70+ and having to suffer through this. A release would be the best way. Pain pills only work so much.

Of course they have the right to die. Anyone who thinks they own a human and can tell them what to do is Evil. When an animal is sick the Vet kills them ASAP. When a human is suffering it does not matter. Instead of helping the sick rid them pain forever they are given pain pills to addict them also while making money from them as well.

This is one loaded question. Speaking of "the Right to Die" I don't believe dehydration is the best way for someone to check out of LIFE! nor is a gunshot, or drowing! if one is terminally ill. If one is looking for a way out I have been told by one of my friends who is a Coroner that, Carbon Monoxide Poisoning is one of the easiest ways to "check outta here". With that being said, this is a very REAL topic for me and at a later time I will post something here for everyone to read and ponder.

This topic is very close to my heart. It has many thing's which come to play in the mind such as is this OK to do? morally, ethical, legal? Either way. Those who are that stating taking a bunch of pills and checking out may not be the best idea. Because there are many times when this method does not work. even with some people who take massive amounts of pills. So please don't think pouring a bottle of pills down your throat may be the quick fix. You do realize something like a "Fentanyl Patch" aka (pain patch) is often used with hospice patients to put them in a state so they slip on into a coma and pass on. They don't have any pain with a "pain patch on". Most people will surcome to the powerful pain patch.

There are many online pharmacies where one could access this type of material for this "journey" they are wishing for. It is a journey you of course don't plan for a re-entry from. I have always believed if one decided to do such a thing it is a personal and private decision. I don't believe religion should be involved. I do not believe God judges a person for making such a decision. How could he? If he is a true God? If you believe in the fact there is a God. You tell me what God would wish for one of his own to suffer such a horrific disease and not wish for a passage out? Not any God of mine I'll tell you that much.

I do agree with the people who stated what IF they came up with a way to cure you right before you made this decision or the day of? I can guarantee you one thing, the $ money is NOT in the cure. The money is in the medicine. The government would not be knocking down anyone's door that day handing out cure's. Far from it. They tie up many drug's and machines that can aid human kind with billions and billions of "red tape." With that being said, the very medicine many are taking on a daily basis for their "disease or problems" is killing off millions of human beings on a constant basis. Just flip on your TV OR go check out the FDA's pharmaceutical recall site. Where they list all of the drug's currently on recall. Because they will cause your death. That is evidence alone. The government believes they have the right to kill us but we can't? Does that sound free? not to me! The last time I checked the FDA was supposed to not allow any drug's into the market that didn't pass the grade. Certainly drug's that cause death were not suposed to be allowed. Do you think they got slack? It is amazing this wasn't happening as often as it does now back in the 50's, 60's, or even 70's. Check out the data.

I've always been curious about why the people who try to do good for human mankind can NOT get the Government to back their drug/equipment that can cure or help. The one reason is, they don't care about what will cure, they do however care about how many billions in revenue these drug's can bring in. The government does participate in, biological population control in many forms. So, don't ever believe a cure is going to come for every disease plaguing the world. AIDS did get much relief and I believe the Government decided AID's would certainly kill off more human's than we could ever reproduce in one century so it had to be controlled. They control what is cured, slowed, or stopped.

The government handles and control the money and who does what. And we all believe we are free? We're not even free to kill ourselves if we are diagnosed with a terminal illness. Many states can legally charge a person for this act.


I personally believe Dr. Jack Kevorkian should have received a medal of honor instead, he got a jail cell. What a shame. He was helping those precious people who could not breath without horrific pain. We are not FREE. The only way we are is when we die. Think about it. Either way, all of this is my own personal opinion. Simply put

~RobinD323~

Originally posted by LargeFries
reply to post by sugarcookie1

 

sugarcookie1, I think here in America we are woefully behind the times with respecting a persons right to die. I advocate that people after a given age should have the ability to cease their existence in a respectful manner.

Aside from terminal illness are people who suffer terrible mental or physical pain daily. They should have the right to not only terminate themselves, there should be the option to have ones organs and such donated. Maybe another person will have a better life, or a medical student will learn to perfect a procedure, there are many plus sides to being a donor.

I liked the movie Soylent Green. In their futuristic civilization are places for people to go when they choose to die. They are treated with respect and dignity. These people didn't have to cause a traumatic situation with a messy suicide. They no longer had to suffer, to long for what they miss. they did not have to worry about being found dead in their little apartment weeks after the fact. Respect and dignity.

I understand not many people may agree with my opinion. That's okay. Take care sugarcookie1

Thank you for your reply and Ive looked into organs donated i would love to be able to do that but sadly most of my organs are to damaged,meaning heart,lungs,kidneys and most major organs but they might be able to use my eyes and i would gladly gIve those and anything else that could be used..I'm on the list and have been for many years to get a new set of lungs from a doner but there few to be had i wish more people would consider donateing body parts after death..all i want is the choice to die with dignity when that time comes..thanks for the reply

Originally posted by fooks
s+f

yes we do!

i talked with the wife tonite about this.

i am out of here as soon as i am terminal.

she wants to prolong it to the end, WRONG, i will pull the plug myself,

at the right time of course.

prolonged illness is a bitck, money and stress and if everything was good before, say goodbye and see ya later!

love ya!

lol and thank for your reply

Originally posted by leedslurker
Having seen my dad suffer with Alzheimers for years, his personality change, his memory go, physically decline to the state where he looked like looked like he had come out of Belsen, 6ft tall, 6 stone and my wife working daily with people suffering from the likes of BSE, MND and Parkinson, safely regulated euthanasia has to be the way forward.

I agree you dont know what its like till you see it all frist hand.. safely regulated euthanasia is the way to go..thanks for the reply

reply to post by sugarcookie1


Thank you dear, but do not presume to critique the posts or opinions of others

and certainly not in the terms you've used, which apart from showing your closed-minded control-issues -- also contravene T & C

Originally posted by speculativeoptimist

This made me curious about how and if any other cultures accept euthanasia and I found that some cultures do, and here is a representative map.
en.wikipedia.org...:Euthanasia_and_the_Legality.png
I live in Oregon and we are one of the few states that has created a Death With Dignity Act.
Oregon Death With Dignity
I believe it is a human right to exercise this for oneself. I know I would not want to suffer or be kept barely alive for the sake of it. I would not want to bestow the medical costs on my loved ones. This is why it is so important to have a plan or some legal alternatives in place, imo.
I think more states could get this legislation if the people got involved and brought some attention to the issue. Dr Krevorkian of course brought this notion to the mainstream some years ago, and Oregonians got involved. Yes we are a "speak up" kind of folk out here.

Peace,
spec

edit on 3-4-2011 by speculativeoptimist because: (no reason given)

Thanks for your reply and the map that was interesting my state does not allow this maybe in the future i hope..I believe every state should have a Death With Dignity Act but its such a can of worms many states don't want to deal with it.. Dr Krevorkian had it right but he ended up in jail over it and i always thought why? He did these people a service to die the way that wanted to with dignity, I'm glad Oregon passed the law ..I'm in Minn and this state is full of bible thumpers so i don't see it happening for a long time..