Do the Terminally Ill Have a Right to Die?

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posted on Apr, 3 2011 @ 04:08 PM
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Everyone already has the so-called right to die. If you want to end it, overdose on pills or get a gun or something. Why do some people feel this issue has to be codified into law? It seems like too many special interest groups not only want to be able to do whatever their pet activity is, they also want to force others to nod in approval of said activities. If you want to kill yourself, that's your problem. You won't get my imprimatur though.




posted on Apr, 3 2011 @ 04:11 PM
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Originally posted by gnosticquasar
My position on this issue is pretty straightforward: we consider it morally reprehensible to force a suffering dog to continue on in agony. The fact that we don't extend such basic mercy to fellow human beings is sickening.


Yeah i will never understand that one you can have a animal put down even if there not sick its your choice..But you have no choice in they way you can pass..



posted on Apr, 3 2011 @ 04:26 PM
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My mother has tenth stage ms and she has told me of days that she has wished to die because th pain is so unbearable. She has had this terrible disability for nearly 33 years now, and is a strong fighter. Any choice she makes, i respect and back her 100%.



posted on Apr, 3 2011 @ 04:32 PM
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reply to post by matrix99
 



If you want to end it, overdose on pills or get a gun or something. Why do some people feel this issue has to be codified into law?

It's not that simple though. There are many who get into a condition where they are either confined to a medical facility or they loose their mental functions and are unable to exercise any independence. Plus the legal aspect would grant family members the ability to honor the patients wishes and end the life humanely, without fear of breaking the law OR disqualifying any life insurance benefits.
I wonder how many medical/ins industry lobbyist there are fighting any euthanasia efforts?

Peace,
spec



posted on Apr, 3 2011 @ 04:35 PM
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Originally posted by speculativeoptimist
reply to post by matrix99
 



If you want to end it, overdose on pills or get a gun or something. Why do some people feel this issue has to be codified into law?

It's not that simple though. There are many who get into a condition where they are either confined to a medical facility or they loose their mental functions and are unable to exercise any independence.




So who gets to play God and decide when this mentally incapacitated (which can be subjective in some cases) person should die?



posted on Apr, 3 2011 @ 04:38 PM
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reply to post by matrix99
 


The individual first, then the family, but as it stands, the insurance co, state and medical practitioner's still have a say in the matter. This is what the big Palin "death panel" bit was about, an effort to consult with family and med people to determine an end of life plan, as opposed to just leaving it up to the system/state, which encourages prolonged life, even in a vegetive state, which so often leaves a family broke or in debt beyond reason.

spec
edit on 3-4-2011 by speculativeoptimist because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 3 2011 @ 04:42 PM
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reply to post by matrix99
 



Well, seeing they have so much experience in this, maybe those who decided a million Afghanis and Iraqis and Palestinians etc. etc. should die

I mean what does it matter ? Seriously, what does it matter, when they're poisoning the air, the water, the food and injecting people with toxic vaccines and infecting blood supplies and killing people in drug trials, etc. etc. in any case ? And when they murder 3,000 in one hit, as on 9/11 ? And when 20,000 or 40,000 or 60,000 were killed in Russia and Ukraine. And when tens of thousands of foetuses are aborted every month around the world

Perspective is what's needed in discussions such as this



posted on Apr, 3 2011 @ 04:46 PM
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Originally posted by Dock9
reply to post by matrix99
 



Well, seeing they have so much experience in this, maybe those who decided a million Afghanis and Iraqis and Palestinians etc. etc. should die

I mean what does it matter ? Seriously, what does it matter, when they're poisoning the air, the water, the food and injecting people with toxic vaccines and infecting blood supplies and killing people in drug trials, etc. etc. in any case ? And when they murder 3,000 in one hit, as on 9/11 ? And when 20,000 or 40,000 or 60,000 were killed in Russia and Ukraine. And when tens of thousands of foetuses are aborted every month around the world

Perspective is what's needed in discussions such as this



I don't quite get what you're driving at. I asked who should play God and decide who should die. You proceeded to tell me not who should make the decision, but rather who should die themselves. You then asked what does it matter? Well, to me, all life matters. I think it might to you too (correct me if I'm wrong) since you listed lots of atrocities there.
Are you saying, with your perspective comment, that we should overlook some people dying if the number is small?
edit on 3-4-2011 by matrix99 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 3 2011 @ 04:49 PM
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Originally posted by Golf66
My wife and I have discussed this in depth and while we have both taken the steps to include a living will since some in our families tend to the religiously whacked side and we feel the need to take away their ability to object.

I personally don’t want my family to lose all I have built to sting me out for another 6 months living in a home 45 miles away with strangers for both financial and psychological reasons (theirs and mine).

Sure if there is some chance of recovery I guess but not for another 6 months or a year of low quality life. Only the individual has the right to make the decision what is best for him/her or family in this situation – it has nothing (or should have nothing, I should say rather…) to do with government or the insurance company.

I can only think of Johnny Got His Gun as a point of reference for what it must be like to be trapped in your own body by the wondrous “advances to medical science” as they string our your suffering along as you descend into insanity and loneliness. I am not anti-war just right to die so don’t get all rogue on me for the book choice; it's just a classic narrative of how I suspect one would feel in a helpless trapped state - ala Terry Shrivo (sp).

We (my wife and I) even went so far as to promise each other that should the other wish it (and could communicate it or has done so prior – neither of us wishes to live in a quadriplegic state; I know lots of people do but I don’t want to be one of them) and was for some reason – paralysis or inability to control limbs etc physically unable to do so for ourselves we would do it for each other.

That said, we would have to wait until any legal ramifications would not affect the others ability to remain a parent to our child as we could not jeopardize that status under our current laws. I told her to just put the gun in my hand and leave the room (I have lived violently; I have no problem dying that way – good enough for the horses, good enough for me); that way she doesn’t have any guilt for having played a part – more plausible deniability for her is my reasoning. She said she’s to an overdose of sleeping pills and Percocet – I guess for the same reasons.

I guess if she were totally out of it; and I wasn’t worried about legal implications (after our kid is grown), I could use any combination of the veterinary drugs we have on hand at the farm like Butorphanol which is a pain killer for animal use; Domosedan a sedative for horses and I have like two horse size doses of 1 each pentobarbital and sodium thiopental on hand at all times for a tragic circumstance should it occur. Probably enough to dose several humans I bet… I suppose she’ll let me know when the time comes.

We are dairy farmers and deal with euthanasia a lot on the farm for all manner of animals from fowl to fur, both large and small. I will go to some pretty costly veterinary measures to save an animal and don’t make my decisions strictly on the basis of profit though it does enter into the equation at some point. I try to guage the degree of suffering and the stress of the immobility/impact/stress of recovery on their species type.

I had a dog who was terrified of the vet for some reason and when we found out she had cushings (adrenal cancer). Doctor said she could live for several years more with some vet care...but I couldn't do it to her. Relatively speaking for as much as I loved that dog the cost was minima for the vet treatment. I chose to put her down instead (had a vet come to the house and do it right there on the bed we shared...at night) rather than subject her to the abject terror of weekly vet visits for the possibility of a couple years more of life.

However, on the other hand I paid a crap load for a surgery on a horse (twisted bowl obstruction) because it as a short recovery and minimal change to her lifestyle – she was 18 years old at the time as well – for 74 cents I could have put her down but that was 5 years ago and I rode her this week. Great horse!

It amazes me that we afford our and pets (which in the view of the law are property more or less) more respect and or dignity at the end of their lives than we do each other and we don’t have any way other than intuition to determine their degree of suffering or will to live.

We can just tell each other (in most cases) what we want…it’s that simple.

I recommend a strongly worded and comprehensive living will!


I have a few family members that have given me the speech if you or anyone else takes your life you wont go to heaven god will shut the gates and not let you through that's why i have a liveing will!
Johnny Got His Gun what a movie i could not live like that suffering with insanity and loneliness i couldn't even imagine it.. there is another movie along that line also i think its called the diving bell and its a true story i will look it up but it was a good one to watch..
I want to live as long as i possibly can Ive out lived most with this illness but if i get to the point i cant take care of myself my med cabinet is full (you get the hint)my husband can just leave the house and he agrees with this he knows i will tell him when that time comes..Believe me i agree with every word of your post..thank you for the reply



posted on Apr, 3 2011 @ 04:51 PM
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reply to post by matrix99
 


No. I didn't do that at all

Take another look

You asked who should make the decision re: the mentally challenged individual

I suggested those (to make such decisions) might be those with so much experience in deciding the deaths/fates of others, such as those who're killing people en masse right now and who orchestrated 9/11 etc.

As to the rest, fine. You care about who makes the decision

But if we put it in perspective ( having just witnessed tens of thousands of Japanese die and this past weekend learned that 1,000 were hacked to death with axes in Africa ) -- the merciful death of someone who's so incapacitated that they can't even decide to die, is small potatoes



posted on Apr, 3 2011 @ 04:55 PM
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Originally posted by Stringycheeseman
I believe that one should be able to end his or her own life at any point. Yes it may be selfish in the eyes of others, but its ones own choice. I had 3 hernias while i was in the Army and i have chronic nerve damage from the surgeries and have to walk with a cane on occasion. Most days it feels like someone is sticking a hot iron into my nut.

Sometimes the pain is so intense that I feel I'm going insane. I would not wish this upon anyone. I'm 24 and can barely handle the pain. I couldn't imagine being 60, 70+ and having to suffer through this. A release would be the best way. Pain pills only work so much.
edit on 3-4-2011 by Stringycheeseman because: (no reason given)


Thanks for posting..Liveing your life on pain pills is no fun and your right they only do so much and you are so very young i feel bad your suffering..I'm only 38 and i cant imagine being 60, 70+ with pain it has to be horrible



posted on Apr, 3 2011 @ 04:59 PM
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Originally posted by Buford2
Of course they have the right to die. Anyone who thinks they own a human and can tell them what to do is Evil. When an animal is sick the Vet kills them ASAP. When a human is suffering it does not matter. Instead of helping the sick rid them pain forever they are given pain pills to addict them also while making money from them as well.


Sure alot of all this is about pill pushing Drs its big money and they know it



posted on Apr, 3 2011 @ 05:32 PM
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Of course they should legally have the right to die! It's your life, to say no would be ludicrous and absurd.



posted on Apr, 3 2011 @ 05:34 PM
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reply to post by sugarcookie1
 


I totally agree with your point of view , as a matter of fact is moral to do this than otherwise.
S&F for your post.

I am wondering when we will be able not to let society, rules and laws rule over this particular decision and let the person make their own without feeling guilty or making the family members feel guilty.



posted on Apr, 3 2011 @ 05:36 PM
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Originally posted by RobinD323
This is one loaded question. Speaking of "the Right to Die" I don't believe dehydration is the best way for someone to check out of LIFE! nor is a gunshot, or drowing! if one is terminally ill. If one is looking for a way out I have been told by one of my friends who is a Coroner that, Carbon Monoxide Poisoning is one of the easiest ways to "check outta here". With that being said, this is a very REAL topic for me and at a later time I will post something here for everyone to read and ponder.

This topic is very close to my heart. It has many thing's which come to play in the mind such as is this OK to do? morally, ethical, legal? Either way. Those who are that stating taking a bunch of pills and checking out may not be the best idea. Because there are many times when this method does not work. even with some people who take massive amounts of pills. So please don't think pouring a bottle of pills down your throat may be the quick fix. You do realize something like a "Fentanyl Patch" aka (pain patch) is often used with hospice patients to put them in a state so they slip on into a coma and pass on. They don't have any pain with a "pain patch on". Most people will surcome to the powerful pain patch.

There are many online pharmacies where one could access this type of material for this "journey" they are wishing for. It is a journey you of course don't plan for a re-entry from. I have always believed if one decided to do such a thing it is a personal and private decision. I don't believe religion should be involved. I do not believe God judges a person for making such a decision. How could he? If he is a true God? If you believe in the fact there is a God. You tell me what God would wish for one of his own to suffer such a horrific disease and not wish for a passage out? Not any God of mine I'll tell you that much.

I do agree with the people who stated what IF they came up with a way to cure you right before you made this decision or the day of? I can guarantee you one thing, the $ money is NOT in the cure. The money is in the medicine. The government would not be knocking down anyone's door that day handing out cure's. Far from it. They tie up many drug's and machines that can aid human kind with billions and billions of "red tape." With that being said, the very medicine many are taking on a daily basis for their "disease or problems" is killing off millions of human beings on a constant basis. Just flip on your TV OR go check out the FDA's pharmaceutical recall site. Where they list all of the drug's currently on recall. Because they will cause your death. That is evidence alone. The government believes they have the right to kill us but we can't? Does that sound free? not to me! The last time I checked the FDA was supposed to not allow any drug's into the market that didn't pass the grade. Certainly drug's that cause death were not suposed to be allowed. Do you think they got slack? It is amazing this wasn't happening as often as it does now back in the 50's, 60's, or even 70's. Check out the data.

I've always been curious about why the people who try to do good for human mankind can NOT get the Government to back their drug/equipment that can cure or help. The one reason is, they don't care about what will cure, they do however care about how many billions in revenue these drug's can bring in. The government does participate in, biological population control in many forms. So, don't ever believe a cure is going to come for every disease plaguing the world. AIDS did get much relief and I believe the Government decided AID's would certainly kill off more human's than we could ever reproduce in one century so it had to be controlled. They control what is cured, slowed, or stopped.

The government handles and control the money and who does what. And we all believe we are free? We're not even free to kill ourselves if we are diagnosed with a terminal illness. Many states can legally charge a person for this act.


I personally believe Dr. Jack Kevorkian should have received a medal of honor instead, he got a jail cell. What a shame. He was helping those precious people who could not breath without horrific pain. We are not FREE. The only way we are is when we die. Think about it. Either way, all of this is my own personal opinion. Simply put


~RobinD323~



I'm under no delusion there will be a cure for me i know there wont be and if there was they wont be at my door going hey we have a cure come and get it..why? my meds each month come to over 4 thousand dollars one of my meds is a aerosol the co payment is a thousand dollars i was one of the lucky ones i got help paying the medical costs or my husband and i would be living in the park in a box broke..I am very grateful we got this help it is keeping me alive but in the end it wont be my illness that kills me it will be the meds..I'm on that nasty "Fentanyl Patch" have been for years the highest dose and change it every 3rd day but it does help with pain..I want to thank your for your wonderful truthful post~~



posted on Apr, 3 2011 @ 05:40 PM
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Originally posted by matrix99
Everyone already has the so-called right to die. If you want to end it, overdose on pills or get a gun or something. Why do some people feel this issue has to be codified into law? It seems like too many special interest groups not only want to be able to do whatever their pet activity is, they also want to force others to nod in approval of said activities. If you want to kill yourself, that's your problem. You won't get my imprimatur though.


codified into law makes it legal to do so is why



posted on Apr, 3 2011 @ 05:41 PM
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reply to post by sugarcookie1
 


Do we really respect freedom of the individual, or do we think people need to be guided like children?
Everyone has the right to do what they want to themselves as long as it doesn't harm others and that goes for drugs, lethal, necessary or fun. I've watched my parents' entire generation die and only saw two deaths out of fourteen that I'd like for myself. Keeping the body alive of someone who's old and demented is demented and cruel itself. We are scared children when it comes to death and we have banished it to sterile cells away from our awareness.
I've had enough death for a few lifetimes and would like a break, but as far as outlawing suicide? It's a fine line between overstepping authority over someone else's body and slavery. I guess it would be logical to make suicide legal and just try to keep folks from doing it, like we do already. Suicidal people who are serious are gonna do it whether or not it's legal.
The do good instinct to screw with people always goes too far and though the sentiment is understandable, it's wrong to make it a law when it comes to ones autonomy. It should just be the understood right thing to do.
And health care should be paid for by everyone in a civilized society. So should food and rudimentary shelter, but I digress.



posted on Apr, 3 2011 @ 05:42 PM
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Originally posted by gunshooter
My mother has tenth stage ms and she has told me of days that she has wished to die because th pain is so unbearable. She has had this terrible disability for nearly 33 years now, and is a strong fighter. Any choice she makes, i respect and back her 100%.


Your mom sounds like a very strong person and your a wonderful person to agree with her wishs



posted on Apr, 3 2011 @ 05:43 PM
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Originally posted by matrix99
Everyone already has the so-called right to die. ... Why do some people feel this issue has to be codified into law?


I agree that anyone can die anytime they want to. But as it is now, there's a social stigma around suicide that is very negative. It is seen as a weakness and people talk about it in hushed terms, even embarrassed and ashamed that their family member committed this act. It's done in garages and bedrooms, sometimes leaving horrible messes for the loved ones to deal with.

If it were legal, then people could choose to do it under supervision, in hospitals and they could talk openly with their families about it and explain why they were making this choice. It would still be hard on the family, I'm sure, but at least they could ask questions and be somewhat resolved about what was happening.

That's just my view on it.



posted on Apr, 3 2011 @ 05:44 PM
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Originally posted by JosephJohnson
Of course they should legally have the right to die! It's your life, to say no would be ludicrous and absurd.


Thank you for your reply...





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