Wisconsin protesters to face Tea Party counter protesters today

reply to post by bluemooone2

..And every teacher that has skipped work should be loose wages . Period. Say, one weeks pay for every day missed....

And if they do it again fire their rears. There are plenty of people out there WITHOUT jobs who are qualified to teach. A whole crop of new grads, and at least in my state if you had a good grade average and a college education you could teach for a year and work on the rest of the courses during the summer. And yes I could teach. All I lack is my student teaching semester because I decided to go into industry instead. (Double major BS in Chem and teaching with minor in general science)

reply to post by beezzer


All I want is a decent living for ALL peopel. Not just the RICH you you love so much.
As for Jesus, the analogy is fitting as he said:

...I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God

You just don’t understand. You are being scammed and deceived by those like this governor.

All you conservative Republican haters of the poor and middle class, who love the rich, are ruining yourselves and the country.as well.

Unless you are of the millionaires or billionaires then it makes sense that you support the Republican conservative philosophy of love the rich and hate everything else.

But if you are either a decent rich person or an ordinary guy and still support the likes of Governor Walker, then I think you need to examine your beliefs for they are illogical, immoral, and make no sense!

Unions are not ALL BAD... here in Canada, in the construction business for example, a business, including government HAVE TO hire approved workers BY LAW.

That means NO ILLEGAL ALIENS taking jobs, that means no cuts in salary/safety...

Back when they were created, unions were good and very needed. Now, for the most part, they have become corrupt. They protect their members crimes, like police unions, they pay themselves ridiculous pensions and salaries, like the government unions... ect...

Lots of bad unions out there. But yeah, what the unions need is a clean up, not total dissolving.

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
reply to post by Kargun

 

Of course they are. Workers are so much cheaper and so much easier to control individually. And without unions, no one has to deal with pesky safety regulations or benefits negotiations about things like vacations and sick days and things like that. Or changing your pension plan 15 or 20 years in. Or firing you right before you can retire.

We should always just count on the good graces of out employers to do this for us and trust in them and believe in them and that they have our best interests at heart. And if we don't like the employer, well hey, that's easy. Just don't work for them.

And without unions, it appears that no one will ever get off their asses and protest in this country either. Fine. Unions are unequivocally and always bad.

Believe me. I get this on one level. I just don't get American fighting American over what I view as one of the last bastions of ANY voice left for the American worker. As crappy as unions may "be."

edit on 2/19/2011 by ~Lucidity because: (no reason given)

Could not have said this better!

reply to post by inforeal

Who doesn't want decent wages for honest work?
This whole issue is about raises. The teachers union wants set raises, the gov wants teachers raises set against the inflation rate and cost of living.

No-one is taking money away from anyone. The teachers just want HIGHER RAISES.

And this is why we are in this pickle today.

As for wealth. I define myself as wealthy because I have two great sons, a loving wife and we both make pretty good money. She's a Captain, and I'm a Major. So, taking that into account, one teacher is still making more than both of us, combined!!!!

reply to post by inforeal

....It is the Unions that are the ONLY opposition to the corporate empire that can give unlimited money to buy politicians.

The ignoramuses who support this fascist governor don’t know that, at least most of them don’t, therefore they constantly support groups like the Tea party and individuals like this Governor Walker that do things against the intrests of the average guy......

So where the HECK were the UNIONS when a DEMOCRAT Billy Clinton and his buddies arranged to ship US jobs overseas???

....Barack Obama has reshuffled his staff, bringing in a trio of free trade advocates who could spearhead the passage of the South Korea trade agreement.

.. as head of the National Economic Council, Obama brought in Gene Sperling, who held the same position in the Clinton administration. ...the president brought in... William Daley, a former Clinton administration official and banker. And to top it off, General Electric CEO Jeffery Immelt was tapped to lead a newly created Council on Jobs and Competitiveness.

.... in the 1990s Sperling worked behind the scenes to secure the passage of the North American Free Trade Agreement.

"He supported fundamentals of the Clinton administration policies which were really wrongheaded,"...

... Sperling... was working on China’s entry into the World Trade Organization, an event which caused millions of manufacturing jobs in U.S. to be permanently lost.

Sperling also played a major role in repealing the Glass-Steagall Act, which separated commercial and investment banking. Many observers credit the act’s repeal with causing the financial crisis that brought the economy to its knees.

Daley too was instrumental in the passage of NAFTA and China’s entry into the WTO. During the debate over NAFTA, he served as a special council to the president. His only responsibility during that time was ensuring that the trade deal passed.

After delivering the trade pact that cost America 20 percent of its manufacturing jobs in just 14 years, Daley moved on to serve as Clinton’s Commerce Secretary from 1997-2000. During that time, he helped pave the way for China’s entry into the WTO.

Daley’s work in the Clinton administration earned him a reputation as someone who is ''squarely on the opposite side of working families.''...

Immelt, who will now have the president’s ear in an advisory role, has consistently supported the same failed trade policies that have cost America millions of jobs. As the leader of one of the world’s largest companies, he has been at the forefront of the outsourcing movement.

“You would have difficulty finding a company that has outsourced more jobs and closed more American factories than GE,” Scott Paul, Executive Director of the Alliance for American Manufacturing writes. “While they have slashed their American workforce to fewer than 150,000, GE has dramatically expanded its global presence, now employing over 300,000 workers worldwide.”

In the past, Immelt was a vocal supporter for China’s entry into the World Trade Organization. He also spoke out against the proposed “buy American” provision....
www.economyincrisis.org...

And now another DEMOCRAT, Obama, is bringing in the same vultures that caused the economic collapse to "fix it"

THESE are the Presidents AND Administrative Policies that the UNIONS support with the mandatory dues they extort from their members.

Now tell me again how the UNIONS and DEMOCRATS are "protecting" American workers

reply to post by crimvelvet


Let me interrupt the arguments for a second.

40,000 People rally at courthouse.



Video of the protest
www.twitvid.com...

BBC Slideshow of Wisconsin Protests

Noam Chomsky on Wisconsin

Protester Shouts Fox Lies on Air

Interview with Sen John Erpenbach

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
Unions just happen to be the easy target in this case to shoot down, but I think any unifying "thing" would pretty much gets the same treatment.

Because citizen power has been usurped by corporate power in the political arena. Actually, voters voted corporations into power, thinking that they were voting on politicians to solve cultural "issues". A sly trick!

The corruption by corporations of our political process has divided this nation where its citizens now fight each other in a proxy war to ensure 1% control of wealth. Union busting is the corporate Sherman's March to the Sea.

No American politician was/is willing to tell the truth about globalization. Thomas Friedman understands. His recommendations to counter the ill effects of globalization for the American worker are cherry picked by those in power to suit their own special corporate interest.

Money is not evil, but the love of money, greed, is the evil that has been wrought on America, not by God but by greedy people.

Rising energy/food prices in America might be what unites the citizens. But any movement must exist outside of politics.

reply to post by Vitchilo

Lots of bad unions out there. But yeah, what the unions need is a clean up, not total dissolving.

One of the big problems is states with laws that make joining a Union MANDATORY. That is a guaranteed way of making sure the unions are corrupt. If people are not interested in joining they should not be forced to do so.

reply to post by inforeal

....It is the Unions that are the ONLY opposition to the corporate empire that can give unlimited money to buy politicians....

My big problem is Unions do not seem to actually represent what is best for the individual but what is best for the heads of the Unions. Actually Unions and Corporate CEOs actually share similar ideology but they are not about to tell people that.

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
And there it is.

Yes. Exactly. That's the way it should work. Unfortunately, the divide over these cultural issues helped coalesce corporate power in politics. We'll definitely be a better nation if we can overcome the fighting between us.

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
This union thing is not the root cause of their problems. It's just an easy fix.

Yes. Exactly. Making teachers and public servants the scapegoats, trashing them, for years has masked the transfer of wealth, the stealing of wealth from the middle class. I've noticed this demeaning in the public arena for years, even though my sons received excellent public education in a public school built 70 years ago. Maybe all this scapegoating and trashing was merely the misdirection to gain power over We the People.

I thought demeaning an enemy was only for going to war against a foreign enemy, not for my fellow countrymen. Maybe a war really was declared decades ago on the American worker by the corporations and their political allies.

Good. the Tea Baggers should get out and freeze in support of their Overlord money.
They should have been there from the onset honestly if in fact they Really Do Care?
I wonder how many old folks homes and right wing Evangelical clubs they will import this go round.
Im totally surprised the KKK and GOP arent rallying together.
I mean their issues and tactics are near Exact.
Palin would look Great in White.

From a blog entry today. It is well known that the Billionaire Koch brothers fund the Tea Party movement.
Workers thrown into the arena to fight over the table scraps. Real divide and conquer.

TODAY: Major rally at 10:30. Tea Party and open carry (i.e. gun) people at noon. TAA and other unions have organized sets of marshals, people to do what we can to keep things calm, avoid conflict, and keep the tone positive. One D from the Assembly told a group of us last night that most of the counter-protesters are being bussed in with money from FreedomWorks (Dick Armey's group) and the Koch Brothers. Security, based on a set of reports from all sorts of people, will be very heavy. There's been talk about Sarah Palin showing, but that feels like a rumor to me at this point.

Did the tea party show up? any video of them counter protesting? So far all I see are Union protesters?

I have said it before and I'm gonna say it again, If you give up collective bargaining agreements, your a fool.

You lose any liberty or freedom you have on the job site once you accept a job, unions are the only way to have a voice. I feel this situation is going to create a new wave of pro union movements across the country and will rally Democratic voters like the health care laws motivated the republicans.

BTW Im in a Union, I think it's important to list if your in a union or not in these debates.

I bet most that are anti union posters are not members of a union....

reply to post by Leo Strauss


So the tea party is calling for there members to show up Armed????? are you serious???

reply to post by crimvelvet


You are thinking too narrowly. Unions help get the employees and workers a little more form the pie. The leaders of unions make nothing near what corporate CEO’s make.

Corporate CEO’s are out for the shareholders of a company not the general good of the work force. If they could they would work you without consideration of your health, safety or welfare, it is the unions that look after that. Without them the balance would weigh too heavily in the favor of the corporation’s interests and not the intrests of the workers.

This group wants to have a counter rally, calling all "tea party and grassroots conservatives" to join..... American Majority and the American Majority spin off, I Stand With Scott Walker.

Once again, people are being Blinded By the Right. Instead of joining together to fight corporate political corruption, citizens are once again shamelessly being herded together to fight the grievances of fellow citizens.

reply to post by inforeal

You are thinking too narrowly. Unions help get the employees and workers a little more form the pie. The leaders of unions make nothing near what corporate CEO’s make.

Yes, And my Union got our plant shut down and all of us kicked out of work because the big National Union bosses would not negotiated even though the local was willing to.


The problem is pro-union people forget you are not bargaining with the Corporation you are bargaining with CHINA and MEXICO. When I started work 24% of the work force worked in manufacturing jobs. Today we have only 9% of the work force in manufacturing jobs. Our education is so bad in this country that companies hire people from India or China for the high tech jobs. The decision was made to De-Industrialize the USA (1969, Dr. Richard Day) and that is exactly what has been done.

I do not have the link, but the elite made the decision to de-industrialize the USA and use it for growing food. I have seen absolutely nothing to make me think that this is not the "Master Plan"

reply to post by crimvelvet

More Gop BS.
This is the line that folks use whom have never been in a union or knew someone who worked with someone in a union who was lazy.
The Lies and same exact "i was a union guy but......the unions f'd us" BS.
The unions merely try too negotiate some minor fairness that the Corporations otherwise Would Not even consider.
You want too see tough times. Let the GOP squash any and all worker rights and watch Everyones(Gop,Dem,Ind,etc..) wages and standards deplete too 3rd world status in a blink of an eye.
Gop is hell bent on Breaking The medium income family into starvation. Plain and simple and all so Rich can own it all.
Nice work Sheep.