Wisconsin protesters to face Tea Party counter protesters today

reply to post by VType

More Gop BS. This is the line that folks use whom have never been in a union or knew someone who worked with someone in a union who was lazy. The Lies and same exact "i was a union guy but......the unions f'd us" BS.....

Dude you are SOOOOoooo wrong. I am the person who handed the Union Steward the information he needed to take the company I worked for to court because they were way over the OSHA limits on a couple of harmful chemicals.


As far as GOP (Republican) goes, it was a Republican, Ronald Reagan who helped the Banksters wipe out our US Corporations and laid the ground work for the present economic collapse. (Clinton by the way was responsible for the housing bubble crash.)


Instead of getting hung up on "The UNIONS will SAVE US" bull paddies. Take a look at what ACTUALLY happened to our jobs!

....These days, corporations seem to exist for the investment bankers.... In fact, investment banks are replacing the publicly held industrial corporations as the largest and most powerful economic institutions in America.... THERE ARE SIGNS THAT A VICIOUS spiral has begun, as each corporate player seeks to improve its standard of living at the expense of another's. Corporate raiders transfer to themselves, and other shareholders, part of the income of employees by forcing the latter to agree to lower wages. January 29, 1989 New York Times: LEVER AGED BUYOUTS: AMERICAN PAYS THE PRICE

READ that AGAIN!

The corporations got raped by the Corporate Raiders. The equity in the corporations was sucked out and transfered to the banksters leaving the corporations close to bankruptcy. EVERY SINGLE PLANT I worked at since 1970 or my husband worked at has closed their doors. Most of the companies no longer even exist.

The POLITICIANS have done NOTHING to halt this rape of US businesses. Leveraged Buyouts are still going on

‘Whitewashed Windows and Vacant Stores’ 1/25/2010

.....You might be familiar with the mall-based, teen-focused, accessories chain, Claire’s Stores. It was taken over in 2007 by Apollo Management LP for $3.1 billion. At the time, the chain had over $245 million in cash on hand. Today, the cash is gone. Struggling under the weight of $2.3 billion in debt, sales continue to decline.

Can you understand what is happening? Healthy solvent corporations are the target of hostile takeovers where the equity gets sucked out and transfered to the raiders and the banksters.

....Both economic and regulatory factors combined to spur the explosion in large takeovers and, in turn, large LBOs. The three regulatory factors were the Reagan administration's relatively laissez-faire policies on antitrust and securities laws, which allowed mergers the government would have challenged in earlier years; the 1982 Supreme Court decision striking down state antitakeover laws (which were resurrected with great effectiveness in the late eighties); and deregulation of many industries, which prompted restructurings and mergers. The main economic factor was the development of the original-issue high-yield debt instrument. The so-called "junk bond" innovation, pioneered by Michael Milken of Drexel Burnham, provided many hostile bidders and LBO firms with the enormous amounts of capital needed to finance multi-billion-dollar deals.... www.econlib.org...

...In the 1980s during the great takeover boom and hollowing out of the industrial heartland, many states adopted amendments to their corporate codes that codified directors' fiduciary duties, so-called "constituency statutes". In general, these provisions made it clear that a director need not "maximize shareholder value." Rather, in complying with their fiduciary obligations, directors may take all sorts of things into consideration - the impact of their decisions on various constituencies, including employees, the community, the environment, the color of the sky, whatever...

The 1980s LBO boom was a scourge for management. They used whatever tools at their disposal to prevent an acquisition... The Delaware courts stepped in... In short, the message from the courts was that boards did not have a free hand to put off all takeover attempts... [remember many firms are incorporated in delaware because of business friendly laws] lawprofessors.typepad.com...

DEFINITION:

Leveraged buyouts involve an investor, financial sponsors or private equity firms making large acquisitions without committing all the capital required for the acquisition. To do this, a financial sponsor will raise acquisition debt which is ultimately secured upon the acquisition target... en.wikipedia.org...

In other words the investor is placing a mortgage on property he does not OWN!!!

This is not moral or ethical and given what happened during the Great Depression, I would be very surprised if laws were not enacted to prevent it. SO - Where the heck was CONGRESS. Where the heck were the COURTS when this was going on??? Where the HECK was Obama and the democrats??? If you want to do one single thing to help America get back on her feet OBAMA??? Then Declare Leveraged Buyouts ILLEGAL. They are certainly immoral and very destructive to the country.

If you want to know what the US government did about it...

...In January 1982, former US Secretary of the Treasury William Simon and a group of investors acquired Gibson Greetings, a producer of greeting cards, for $80 million, of which only $1 million was rumored to have been contributed by the investors. By mid-1983, just sixteen months after the original deal, Gibson completed a $290 million IPO and Simon made approximately $66 million. The success of the Gibson Greetings investment attracted the attention of the wider media to the nascent boom in leveraged buyouts.[10] Between 1979 and 1989, it was estimated that there were over 2,000 leveraged buyouts valued in excess of $250 billion... en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by ~Lucidity

This article sound to me like it's just more of the same from that "side." Where's their outrage over CEO salaries? Even Congressional salaries? This dude just doesn't "like" Obama.

Hmm no. He's been bashing the banks, the CEOs, congress for raping the country for years now.

More like a case of the majority trying to take away the rights of a minority. But the "minority" might not be such in this case.

Thing is, the Wisconsin governor ran with that platform from day one. People elected him. So the majority agreed with his view of doing away with the union bargaining except their salary.

The majority here is on the side of the governor.

reply to post by Vitchilo


Did the majority that voted know the governor was going to pay out the surplus the state had to corporation's creating this financial mess? Then use this financial situation to justify breaking the Unions that didn't support him in his election campaign?

Originally posted by LDragonFire
reply to post by Vitchilo

 

Did the majority that voted know the governor was going to pay out the surplus the state had to corporation's creating this financial mess?

No.

Then use this financial situation to justify breaking the Unions that didn't support him in his election campaign?

Yes.

I'm not for cutting the teacher's pay... they deserve it, more than anyone...

All those people protesting... they are protesting against this, let's face it, worthless debate in the grand scheme of things, and I'm sure they have not protested ONE DAY against the wars or the bank bailouts.

They can protest all they want and I say go for it... It's their right. Doesn't change the fact that most states are bankrupt and the federal government too and when the push comes to shove, they won't have ANYTHING, not their pensions, not their benefits, not even their salary.

So... this is just the beginning.... hopefully of an Egypt type thing when instead of only a few protesting that their life is being destroyed, the whole country can protest to get their financial future back.

F%*K The UNIONS!!!!!

I work some months 12 hours a day, 7 days a week ...no pension, have to pay into a percentage of medical benefits ....... and you dont hear me complaining.

And get this!!!! I work around Union guys!!! Welders, Pipefitters, carpenters, .....blue collar folks ..... and they ALLL complain about stuff all day, lazy as hell, don't want work ..... but they do want the money.

This is the natural outcome. The US Gov is bankrupt which means Gov Union member pensions are crumbling.

So they want to raise the taxes on regular folks to pay for all that.

F%*K THAT !!!!!! Let all those pensions crumble...... These are the same employees that lived off the gluttony of a Government that was way to big for its britches..... now you bastards pay for it and become just like the rest of us.

If you want to raise my taxes for your pensions and medical benefits ....well then your gonna have to fight me and all my US citizen non Union member friends for it...... and I know there is more of us than there is of you

Lets even out this playing field

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
reply to post by centurion1211

 

Yes, I remember reading that. That same thought keeps running through my mind too. So far, it's peaceful. :Let's hope it stays that way.

Exactly,

Because if Titor's prediction plays out, it goes from civil war to nucleear war ...

I think this crap is all a distraction. It is a relief valve carefully executed by master control agents. They use their twin systems of Control and Chaos just like on Get Smart but for real. They are both 2 heads on a rigged coin. We should all be looking elsewhere from this situation to figure out what they are sneaking through or some dirty dealings while this carefully orchestrated distraction rages on. This is all a slight of hand trick in public perception modification. We are being had people. Played like a violin.

reply to post by Vitchilo


I pretty much agree with what you wrote.

I don't have a problem with them taking a pay cut and having to contribute to there medical expenses...But I'm 100% opposed to not being able to collectively bargain....

Tunisia, Egypt, multiple issues ongoing in multiple countries....hmmm It sure seems like the seeds of discontent has sprouted and is growing like a weed

Wisconsin protests: Do Americans agree with tea party view of unions?

In recent years, public support for labor unions has begun to wane. Will this trend continue as state and local governments face budget challenges? Protests in Wisconsin may be an indicator.
[...]
The tea party movement casts it as a battle to take state politics back from labor-union bosses and liberal interest groups. Union supporters say Republican lawmakers are putting the basic rights of working class Americans at risk.

Which view do more Americans agree with?

As union contract issues reverberate as state-budget sticking points in Wisconsin and other states, the American public doesn't fall neatly into either camp. The public's view on the subject is evolving, and how it shifts in coming months could help determine the near-term course of state politics and finances.

In one survey taken early this month, the Pew Research Center asked a cross-section of Americans whether their view of labor unions is favorable or unfavorable.

Although the share of respondents taking some form of favorable view (45 percent) was slightly larger than the camp with unfavorable views (42 percent), support for unions has clearly ebbed over the past decade. When Pew asked the same poll question in 1999, the margin was 59 percent "favorable" to 36 percent "unfavorable."

In recent years? Mkay.

Pew. Meh. More analysis needed.

Tea Party backers outnumbered in Wisconsin budget demonstrations

Tens of thousands have demonstrated throughout the week against Republican Governor Scott Walker's proposals, which supporters say are necessary to bring state spending under control and opponents contend are aimed at breaking the back of state worker unions.

Both sides drew thousands on Saturday, but opponents appeared to have several times as many on hand as those attending a rally backed by Tea Party groups, the first such demonstration this week.

The bill's opponents marched counter-clockwise around the State Capitol, encircling its supporters, and chanted "kill the bill" among other slogans.

The supporters countered with "Recall them all," referring to Democratic state senators who fled to Illinois last week to avoid giving Republicans the quorum needed to consider the proposal.

One would expect the Tea Party to be outnumbered? Wouldn't more of them have to be bussed in? Thought that's what I read, anyway. I would imagine more of the protesters would be local.

Bachmann defends Wisconsin moves on collective bargaining

"Don't let anyone tell you that the government workers in Wisconsin are losing their collective bargaining rights over wages," Bachmann said in a speech to a South Carolina Republican women's group. "They are not. They are retaining them. It's their collective bargaining right over their benefits."
[...]
Bachmann said the 2012 elections are an opportunity to "end this nonsense, to end the travesty that could be our future and to once and for all be done with socialized medicine. This is a big, big project. I am in for this project, and that's why I'm going to the early primary states."

Huh?

I'm going to wrap this up (for me) by saying simply this: Something in my gut tells me that when one group of Americans is fighting for or protesting a "thing" they believe strongly in, particularly against a corporation or a government, other groups of Americans should leave it alone. The corporation or government certainly doesn't really need them on their "side" and they are not only undercutting and diluting the fight or the protest but are opening everyone up to the potential for violence and subterfuge, not to mention retaliation. I know everyone has the "right" to protest whatever whenever and that I'm probably "wrong" here, but there's still something fundamentally bothering me a lot about this whole thing. I'm glad this ended peacefully and brought some issues to light.

reply to post by ~Lucidity



Madison is a VERY liberal Town. Not to mention its the state capitol. I would expect more Union members to outpace those from the Tea Party. Bottom line though,8 years of Jim Doyle not doing a damnn thing for WI,and this is the mess the new Governor has to face. He was elected because of this very reason. Almost all the Unions backed Barrett,the Democrat this last election. Really it all boils down to change,and folks in WI KNOW we cant sustain this mess we are in. Tax breaks to businesses, Letting Illinois know their businesses are welcome to move to this State,is his plan. Will it work? Too soon to know. I didnt Vote for Walker BTW. No matter which way he would have done this,the Government Sector Unions,and its peoples were going to be angry. The majority though.have spoken through their voting. They want change.They are getting it.

Star and Flag

reply to post by sonnny1

Exactly. He's bringing them change. Unfortunately, even though he does many of the right things he also seems to be perpetuating some of the wrong things. Can't have it both ways.

In case anyone's interestsed, here's an eyeful on this whole subject from the FoxNews perspective: Fox Slams WI Protests But Cheered Tea Party Protests

And here are some about the "one-sidedness" on other networks:

ABC's One-Sided Take on Wisconsin Protests Includes an Interview With Top Secret, Hidden Democrat

CBS Host's False Attack on Wisconsin Governor Falls Flat

Fox News Highlights Nazi Signs in Wisconsin Pension Debate, Networks Skip Controversy

reply to post by ~Lucidity


Im all for the Unions giving into the Governors demands.........IF, all those other Government employees take tremendous paycuts,give up on their OWN Cadillac pensions,bonuses,etc........ You would probably be able to cut the budget by 600 million,once its said and done. It would galvanize the state. If Walker was smart,he would have enacted something along those lines.I have had mixed feelings about this protest. At first I was really anti-Union. I think I still am,but I dont see the officials in charge of the State,taking a hefty paycut,either. My mood has changed somewhat on the WHOLE subject.Like Ive said before,Not one person in WI,doesnt know someone affected by this. There are so many other places that the state can trim down.

reply to post by sonnny1

Exactly. It's so clearly a union-busting tactic. Why is it that the first place they cut down always hurt the average person and benefits those doing very well anyway?

reply to post by ~Lucidity




The real tea party of two years would not be on government's side in Madison but this is the Koch tea party. Well they are a boring lot to be sure. Tomorrow I will roll out the popcorn machine and chill some extra suds for the event. A day in front of the toob will nice.

Do you real TP'ers know that you've been hijacked by the Koch Bros? Well you have. You no longer represent the grass roots of our nation. Now you represent guys who live in designer houses and keep large bags of money in the trunks of their cars.

reply to post by wayouttheredude

I think this crap is all a distraction. It is a relief valve carefully executed by master control agents. They use their twin systems of Control and Chaos just like on Get Smart but for real. They are both 2 heads on a rigged coin. We should all be looking elsewhere from this situation to figure out what they are sneaking through or some dirty dealings while this carefully orchestrated distraction rages on. This is all a slight of hand trick in public perception modification. We are being had people. Played like a violin.

You got it!

Here is what they are trying to hide Napolitano sets stage for False Flag Terrorist Attack

I document stage three in that thread.

This time we KNOW they are preparing a False flag to scare the public into accepting an even nastier and permanent version of the Patriot Act or as a start of WWIII. If you have any doubts that the US government would allow its own people to be killed, here are the historical facts showing that they have done so before and in exactly the same way to justify WAR. Days of Infamy and The War on Terrorism

The formula, as shown in those articles is:
The first stage is to aggravate, literally to goad the "enemy" until they had no choice but to strike back (sound familiar?) US Diplomat Guilty of Murder: Pakistan Police Report

The second prong of the strategy is to insulate. Keep the victims (that's us) from getting the information needed to protect themselves. Dir. of Nat. Intel lies to Congress or adopts politically correct stance on Muslim Brotherhood and Arizona Governor Jan Brewer asks Obama's Admin. for help and is told the borders are more secure than ever before Meanwhile out of the other side of her mouth Napolitano is saying to Congress The terrorist threat to the U.S. homeland has continued to "evolve" and may now "be at its most heightened state" since the September 11, 2001, terror attacks pointing the finger at "homegrown terrorists" that is Americans. Gee, I wonder why they are stirring up Union and Teaparty protests.

The third and final stage is to Facilitate the attack:make it easy by offering no opposition. Napolitano sets stage for False Flag Terrorist Attack

I outline how Homeland UNsecurity removed hundreds of border patrol agents from the Mexican Border, derailed the border fence authorized by Congress in 2006 and then cancels the Border Fence Project in January of this year. Ms. Napolitano justified to lawmakers a 30 percent budget reduction for U.S. Customs and Border Protection. (March 17, 2010) Finally in June and July of this year three of the four border states are losing their National Guard troops Worse while Minuteman civilian patrols are keeping an eye out for illegal border crossers, the U.S. Border Patrol is keeping an eye out for Minutemen -- and telling the CORRUPT Mexican government where they are!


Here is the reality on the border:

Administration Will Cut Border Patrol Deployed on U.S-Mexico Border - September 24, 2009
Even though the Border Patrol now reports that almost 1,300 miles of the U.S.-Mexico border is not under effective control, and the Department of Justice says that vast stretches of the border are “easily breached,” and the Government Accountability Office has revealed that three persons “linked to terrorism” and 530 aliens from “special interest countries” were intercepted at Border Patrol checkpoints last year, the administration is nonetheless now planning to decrease the number of Border Patrol agents deployed on the U.S.-Mexico border....

....the Obama administration on May 7 said the Border Patrol “plans to move several hundred Agents from the Southwest Border...

Openning the borders wide to "invite attack" as the government did at Pearl Harbor in 1941, is the only explanation for this insanity.

Now hang on a second. One of the logical disconnects in the U.S, is that despite what happened on 9/11 and all the fearmongering, that followed the borders and ports stayed pretty much wide open. This just about totally negates the fearmongering, doesn't it? There are plenty of these logical disconnects around if you look for them. This Wisconsin case is rife with them too.

Further along in that same article:

“The intention is to take back the border incrementally, and make gains that we can keep,” Easterling said. “We do not intend, nor will we give back, miles that we have gained control over.”

Easterling said the Border Patrol would be able to maintain the current number of miles under effective control on the Mexico border with fewer agents deployed there thanks to “force multipliers,” including new fencing, roads and other infrastructure that has been built in recent years. He also cited the assistance the Border Patrol receives from local police and sheriffs departments and community watch groups.

Bottom line is that, with very minor variations, the border policy has not changed a bit over the past 10 years.

reply to post by trailertrash

Do you real TP'ers know that you've been hijacked by the Koch Bros? Well you have. You no longer represent the grass roots of our nation. Now you represent guys who live in designer houses and keep large bags of money in the trunks of their cars.

That was obvious from the first. It is part of the bread and circuses routine courtesy of TPTB that has been used to divide this country for generations.

You need an active "Far Right" that looks like a bunch of whack jobs to keep the general population from actually joining a group that is against TPTB and has the power to oust them.

The propaganda arm of TPTB, excuse me our "Honest" news media has done their darnedest to smear the tea party with the whack job brush before it was infiltrated and controlled.