Wisconsin protesters to face Tea Party counter protesters today

Wisconsin protesters to face Tea Party counter protesters today

www.examiner.com

Wisconsin has become the center of a national battle over worker rights, and today union protesters will be faced with a counter protest from Tea Partiers in Madison. For the past few days tens of thousands of workers, families, and union sympathizers have come to the Capitol building in Madison to protest a bill being pushed by Governor Scott Walker (R-WI) to strip labor organizations of most of their collective bargaining rights.

(visit the link for the full news article)

Okay, I'm just going to say it. Why the hell would the Tea Party pick government over people? How far is this going to go? Could we see violence here?

Why are we equating unions to Democrats and the Tea Party to Republicans and left to madness and throwing these people under the rug for a government that is trying to kabosh their standard of living as it's done to so many others?

For once, the people of this country stand up and start yelling loud and clear and another set of people who make a lot of noise but can't seem to find anything to really protest are going to oppose them? If ever the divisions in this country looked more ridiculous, this clash of "opposing" protesting groups might be it.

Why aren't the Tea Party protesting the government idiocy and corruption that go us all to this point and instead addressing talking points that attack the unions and people rather than the out of control government and corporations? Do they not realize they are also indirectly supporting what they claim to hate?

I honestly am not getting this at some cosmic level.

[Please no more in-depth unions-are-bad babble. Address this on any other level but that. If you can.]

Just a quick overview...


www.examiner.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Unions are bad.

Just saying

reply to post by Kargun

Of course they are. Workers are so much cheaper and so much easier to control individually. And without unions, no one has to deal with pesky safety regulations or benefits negotiations about things like vacations and sick days and things like that. Or changing your pension plan 15 or 20 years in. Or firing you right before you can retire.

We should always just count on the good graces of out employers to do this for us and trust in them and believe in them and that they have our best interests at heart. And if we don't like the employer, well hey, that's easy. Just don't work for them.

And without unions, it appears that no one will ever get off their asses and protest in this country either. Fine. Unions are unequivocally and always bad.

Believe me. I get this on one level. I just don't get American fighting American over what I view as one of the last bastions of ANY voice left for the American worker. As crappy as unions may "be."

Some folks think you have it completely backwards. A govemp union whining is hardly representing all of the American people. The proof of that can be clearly seen in the polarizing and divisive views represented on a simple internet message board.



Simply if we can't even have a consensus on here, then the matter isn't as cut and dried as some want you/us to think, and I would advise we choose sides wisely and with a lot of forethought.

reply to post by ~Lucidity


And the reason, with respect, you cant seem to wrap your mind around it is simply because you are seeing these Union thugs as representing 'the American people'.

They.Simply. Aren't.

They are just protesting for their own kind, for those that share their views. They are not speaking for all---or most---of the rest of us.

reply to post by Clark Savage Jr.

Yeah. No one speaks for the rest of us. Maybe that's the fact that's bothering me so much.

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
reply to post by Clark Savage Jr.

 

Yeah. No one speaks for the rest of us. Maybe that's the fact that's bothering me so much.

WHen people stand up for themselves there will be opposition. It is ok that the "tea party" counter protest, this helps in people see thru their true intents. This protest in wisconsin is a good thing In my Opinion. I hope it stay s peaceful and spreads across the states. We the american people need to stand up and stop the out of control government...

reply to post by prexparte

You're right. They both have their right to protest. This may turn out to be far more important than any of us realize.

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
Why the hell would the Tea Party pick government over people?

Because, like the Republicans before them, the Tea Party congressmen and women want smaller government until it comes to an area that they don't agree with, and then they want bigger government to come in and strong-arm the people. They don't really want smaller government. They just want to use government to make things the way THEY want them to be.

They want to use government to:
Strip labor organizations of their rights
Strip a woman's right to her body
Tell us whom we can marry
Invade our privacy (Patriot Act)
Tell us what we can put in our bodies (recreational drugs)

This may not be the case with individual Tea Partiers (like members of this board), but the people they voted in are nothing more than extreme right wing bullies. That's why.

Here's where the Tea Party is going:

Tim Pawlenty to be TP Keynote Speaker

Yet he opposes abortion, requires the Pledge of Allegiance and prayer in public schools, supports the REAL ID drivers license, wants Bush Tax cuts to be permanent, opposes absolute right to gun ownership, thinks drug use is immoral and should be government-regulated, wants to expand the armed forces and strongly supports the Patriot Act.

How is that based on the Constitution???

Tim Pawlenty on the Issues

reply to post by ~Lucidity


I share your frustration,friend. But we have to guard against labeling one side as this and the other side as that.

I KNOW Unions pretty well. I have admired and respected some Union members. On the other hand, I can certainly see the same corruption within those ranks that I see in almost any OTHER ranks.

In honesty, I can see more.

To one guy, the govemp Unions are the 'people'...to other folks, it's the PEOPLE that are in opposition to them.

reply to post by ~Lucidity


I'm trying to figure out where to begin here, this is my take on the situation. The union folks and those aligned are angry because they feel entitled to raises, continued cheap benefits,vacations etc.. The tea party folks are siding with the governor because one of the few ways money can be cut is for sacrifice by everyone including the union folks or state workers. I know you're smart Lucidity and you've figured this out already lol. As far as I am concerned I feel little or no sympathy for the union folks, they have had it good for a long time and those days are over, not just Wisconsin but here in NY where this will be happening soon. I work for XEROX and most if us rank and file employees haven't gotten a wage increase in 3 years and our health benefits have been decreasing too, meanwhile we've had to read about our CEO's getting 12 million a year bonuses on top of what they're already making so this is why they're cries are falling on deaf ears to me and a lot of other folks too. As far as being used by the powers that be, sure but that is nothing new, we all are in every aspect of life.

reply to post by Clark Savage Jr.

That's exactly WHAT I'm trying to guard against. It's all so mixed up that we're losing sight of the fundamentals here by allowing divisive and distracting arguments to keep creeping into the discussions. You know unions and so do I. Different experiences. Different cultures. Everyone has a story. But what happens without something LIKE them? Take a look around.

reply to post by ~Lucidity

Why are we equating unions to Democrats

It is NOT Unions they are protesting it is Government drones feeding at the public trough and throwing a hissy fit because they are "ONLY" paid $60,000 a year with FULL benefits, when many people are lucky to get paid $20,000 to $35,000 with little or NO bennys

...Federal employees earn higher average salaries than private-sector workers....

Overall, federal workers earned an average salary of $67,691.... The average pay for the same mix of jobs in the private sector was $60,046 in 2008, the most recent data available.... These salary figures do not include the value of health, pension and other benefits, which averaged $40,785 per federal employee in 2008 vs. $9,882 per private worker, according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis. www.usatoday.com...

As I have pointed out several times, the USA's largest employers after the government is Kelly Temp services, Wall mart and McDonalds.

This is what people in those industries earn:

All Occupations: 130,647,610 jobs, $15.95 Median Hourly, $20.90 Mean Hourly, $43,460 Mean Annual

Fast Food: $8.52Median Hourly, $8.76 Mean Hourly $18,230 Mean Annual

Cashiers $8.57 Median Hourly $9.15 Mean Hourly $19,030 Mean Annual

Office and Administrative Support Occupations:
$14.62 Median Hourly $15.86 Mean Hourly $32,990 Mean Annual
www.bls.gov...

Why should we not tell the drones the free ride is over. Personally I would rather throw 50% of them out of their blasted jobs so they can join the rest of us....with NO government bennies except SS and unemployment!

When government unions demand raises, the money has to come from somewhere. In this case, it's the tax payers who have to foot the bill.

Tea Party wants lower taxes. Not higher taxes to feed the ever increasing demand of these government union thugs.

What is so hard to understand?

reply to post by Jeremiah Johnson

I think it's the mixing apples with oranges that's getting to me so much. Different issues. My issue is deeper in that I tend to appear like I side with unions when in fact it's a different "thing" that bothers me. Without some kind of solidarity to unify us we're just going to continue to be enslaved. Unions just happen to be the easy target in this case to shoot down, but I think any unifying "thing" would pretty much gets the same treatment.

reply to post by ~Lucidity


If this gets ugly and riot police are sent out and beat everyone on national TV, then we may have our unity.

reply to post by crimvelvet

Did you just call teachers, police, firefighters, and healthcare workers drones? Because they happen to belong to a "thing" that fights for their rights and safety? Are you assuming that every single one of them is a lazy, no good collecting to large a salary or something?

And what's with the examples of the largest employers, some of the most abusive and most enslaving corporations we have? Because they got salaries down, this is a good thing? What? You're not comparing teachers, nurses, firefighters, police and others and their salaries with people who stock shelves or flip burgers are you? Really?

Are Wisconsin Public Employees Over-compensated?

reply to post by beezzer

They are taxpayers, Beezer. We can't paint this with such a wide brush, ya know? They also probably to their fair share of contributing to their own healthcare costs and pensions. That varies from state to state.

Is this state's financial burden maybe really being caused by tax cuts for the rich and large, multinational corporations?.

When the people are divided they will never be united. Pretty obvious statement, but dont expect any social change untill you can find some common ground.