The Roman Catholic Church Isnt Evil

reply to post by dontreally


In Buddhism, the motive for seeking the oblivion and emptiness of Nirvana is the pain of life on this plane. One turns away from the suffering, and from the root of that suffering, the appetites. One turns away from life itself, while still living. In so doing, the experience death while they live; their individuality dies and they identify with the All. To gain the boundless knowledge of egoless consciousness, that is the goal of death veneration. To die is to touch God.

You emphasize only the pleasure-seeking aspect of Judaism. Like Buddhism and Greek Gnosticism, Judaism has hedonistic and stoic aspects. The stoic aspect manifests itself in the conduct of the religious community when it is needed. The hedonistic aspect manifests itself when it is possible. When one lives in a world of suffering and war, one must turn to the stoic side. When one lives in a world of peace and plenty, one must cultivate the garden of earthly delights.

The various wars that the Israelites engaged in are examples of the stoic side of Judaism. God was stern, a conquering tyrant in those days, and suspended the laws of the covenant that Israel might uproot the seed of the nations. They were not creating paradise, not at that time.

What if the Earth is all the hell that need exist? It contains all of the worst tortures that we have ever imagined, and it contains all the possibility of any new tortures. If one believes in the karmic law, then one has faith that evil will be punished by the mechanism of the divine cosmos. This world is all the heaven that need ever exist as well.

Your preference is your own. I do not judge it as inferior.

Amalek, like Satan, is a name for a character archetype and not an individual. Anybody who opposes you in a significant way is an adversary, a satan. Anybody who causes you to doubt is a doubt, an amalek. It is the force of will that determines the kaleidoscopic relationships of amaleks and satans.

If your faith fails the test of the prosecutor of the heavenly court, then it was a weak faith, not worthy of your god. If doubt causes you to fail, it is you who is at fault, not doubt. The adversary is not your enemy. The adversary is your obstacle to overcome, and you should harbour no ill will towards it.

An animal sacrifice still recognizes the importance of death, the importance of sending the spirit up to god.

reply to post by squandered


This chapel just proves how UnJewish Christianity is.

When you get down to it, this chapel is an expression of a very pessimistic PAGAN spirit, which sees death as the ultimate truth.

Its a Jewish concept, the burying of the dead, and allowing the bones to dissolve naturally into the earth that the body was gathered from.

One dies, ok. Judaism nor Orthodox Christianity denies that. Whats emphasized though is LIFE in this world, and the eventual life in the world after. Life, and not death. We dont hide skeletons because were afraid of death, we bury bodies to respect the source of the body; when one returns the body to where it came from, likewise the soul makes a similar return.

Making art out of someone elses bones is obscene and vain and doesnt prove anything about ones view of death, aside from this obvious glorification of it.

So far, the gnostic liberals have come out and defended this moral atrocity in startling numbers.

reply to post by Vicky32


So this chapel is completely normal to you? It doesnt suggest anything about Catholic philosophy (which is obviously dualistic)??

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by squandered

 

This chapel just proves how UnJewish Christianity is.

When you get down to it, this chapel is an expression of a very pessimistic PAGAN spirit, which sees death as the ultimate truth.

Doesn't this sound contradictory?

1. Wrongly attribute the chamber as a place of worship and to the wrong religion.
2. Talk it down as a pagan ritual

It is culturally pagan. The middle east has some strange cultural practices too.

Are you still trying use this as evidence that Catholics are evil?

I was actually intrigued when I went there because we were backpacking aimlessly and Czech had only recently changed from being communist. It wasn't yet on the tourist path and when we walked in no one knew a thing about the place. It looked very much a blast into a distant past - something that's hard to understand.

Personally I don't care for your religious dogma at all dontreally. It seems to make you narrow minded and judgemental. You misunderstand the place so much!

I've lived on a farm. I've seen enough bones. I don't have any reason to think humans are special animals. You are talking superstitious nonsense when you demand others revere death in your dogmatic style.

Pagans were better off without the church.

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by Vicky32

 

So this chapel is completely normal to you? It doesnt suggest anything about Catholic philosophy (which is obviously dualistic)??

It's not a chapel. This is where they held services

Incidentally that's the view I woke up to when we decided to sleep 'rough'. This cathedral impressed me than any other. You should think about what you're saying.

There no connection to Catholicism. Much as you wish it was, it belongs to a different religion.

reply to post by SmedleyBurlap

Judaism has hedonistic and stoic aspects.

You have a very false and twsited understanding of Judaism. Where in the ancient Rabbinic texts, do you find this "hedonistic" aspect. Please. I dare you to summon anything that isnt sabbatean or frankist, which of course isdnt traditional Judaism, but a 17th century aberation instiaged by the European noble class (Shabtai Tzvis dad was a mechant who made frequent contact with Englands nobility)

The stoic aspect manifests itself in the conduct of the religious community when it is needed

Stoicism is criticized throughout the Talmud and Rabbinic literature. Again, be careful what you believe in texts written about Judaism. If its not from authentic Jewish sources, its probably a fabrication. First, and most importantly, the essence of the Torah, if youve even read it, is physical action. Throughout there is not one mention of stoicism, or asceticism. One is to ENGAGE the physical world. Only one character and one type of person was to take on what would be regarded as a stoic lifestyle, and that was the Nazirite. But, as explained in the bible and Torah literature, this is not seen as a good thing. Indeed, it was seen as something negative. G-d wants us to USE this world. Its the greatest of his creations.

the hedonistic aspect manifests itself when it is possible

This is ridiculously untenable. You are clearly confusing catholicism and Islam with Judaism. Again, they hate the Jews precisely because Torah rejects these pagan perversions.

The various wars that the Israelites engaged in are examples of the stoic side of Judaism.

Judaism, unlike Xtianity and Islam, is not expansionist. It has no goals to conquer the world militarily. G-d desired Israel because it was his chosen land, a particular piece of land that was to be the heritage of his nation of priests who minister to all mankind. Again, its quite hilarious how little gentiles and irreligious jews know about Judaism. This is all in the Talmud.

Also, cause i know this will be mentioned, the Jews conquered those lands not because of their own merit, but because those pagans who lived there engaged in behavior taht G-d considered abhorrent, not because G-d considers war a good thing. It was and is necessary when dealing with evil, as defined by the 7 noahide laws. They didnt abide by these 7 universal laws (which btw are institutionalized in the US as Education day) and so faced G-ds wrath in this world.

If your faith fails the test of the prosecutor of the heavenly court, then it was a weak faith, not worthy of your god. If doubt causes you to fail, it is you who is at fault, not doubt. The adversary is not your enemy. The adversary is your obstacle to overcome, and you should harbour no ill will towards it.

Judaism believes Satan was G-ds greatest creation. Satan is good precisely because he helps one grow. His purpose is similar to a weight. The resistance of a weight allows one to build muscle. Likewise, the resistence created by Amalek or Satan (which are similar concepts, though not exactly the same) aswell spur spiritual growth when responded to intelligently.

Now, human beings each personally have their own relationship to Satan, or amalek. I face doubt, and am contested by negative thoughts and feelings, and my job is to fight against them. Like a muscle, my spiritual stature grows with each succesful 'battle'. G-d is the reason one is able to never become exhausted by Satans relentless efforts, but to grow and attain higher levels of consciousness, continuely and infinitely throughout his life. This is strictly in a personal sense. But, when one decides that doesnt like this situation, and decides to worship Satan or Amalek, than he himself incarnates that spirit WILLINGLY by consciously deciding to do so. One is aware of what he is doing, and isnt at all ignorant of his actions. He himself has become Amalek - a human being who propagates doubt. He has freely chosen to do this with the life energy G-d gives to all his creatures. He has become Amalek, and so will suffer WITH Amalek.

If you have read the bible you will remember Moses last saying, in deuteronomy 25:19, "When the LORD your God gives you rest from all the enemies around you in the land he is giving you to possess as an inheritance you shall blot out the memory of Amalek from under heaven. Do not forget!"

Note the language. First he mentions entering the holy land (the enlightened state) and THAN remembering (doubt arises when one forgets important truths. Thus rememberance - connection to the past - is integral to maintaining the "holy land") to destoy amalek; doubt. People become bad when they allow a spirit of insanity to take them over. In the case of gnosticism and buddhism, it seems to be a dogmatic insanity.

An animal sacrifice still recognizes the importance of death, the importance of sending the spirit up to god.

whats emhphasized though is the animal, a particular animal. Rams, Goats, Oxen, Cattle, animals which exhibit particularly lofty spiritual qualities. These animals are given over. Animals, and not human beings. The purpose of the rite is to trigger a spiritual response in mankinds own animal soul (each animal corresponds with a particular astrological sign) to be dedicated to the almighty, in service of him alone.

On Yom kippur a goat is sent out into the wilderness, off a cliff for Azez'el (essentially satan, the 'goat god', or primal urge) and thats all hes to be given. Its a token sacrifice that cant be rationally explained. In any case, the sacrfiice is to emphasize the redirecting of vital energy towards G-d, and him alone.

reply to post by squandered

Are you still trying use this as evidence that Catholics are evil?

Theres a big difference between crticiizing the institution, and criticizing its unwitting followers. I am only sayign the Church is evil, not catholics. After all, i was born a catholic, my mom, sister and dad are catholics, my grandma is an extremely devout Catholic. I did not say catholics cant become sincere, G-d fearing pious individuals. I know many and consider them brothers.

Personally I don't care for your religious dogma at all dontreally.

Ok. I am not trying to win friends. I care about doing what is right, and that alone is where my loyalty lies.

In my opinion, judgement is a very good thing. After all, mans unique ability to differentiate and analyze, understand and probe, are faculties of JUDGEMENT. Without judgement, you might as well be an animal.

Hence "bohemia" where this chapel is located, means "animal" in Hebrew.

reply to post by dontreally


Semantics... so you are still saying that the bone church is related to Catholicism?
Even your original assumption that it's a catholic establishment, (or ever was) doesn't actually relate it to the Roman Catholic church. You mentioned a pagan influence. You are right. Your gripe is therefore against Eastern Europe and paganism, (pre-Roman mysticism). You wouldn't be alone on that one, but after enjoying a Belarusian pagan festival I saw some good points. Maybe you just hate hippies because it's hippies that will rearange bones just for fun. I can imagine the monk was a drunk and curing his own ills after being devastated by witnessing so much death.

As far as you judging me, it's only going to cause a fight because I'll never go along with it.

I'm a Christian before I'm a catholic and I don't think God judges anyone. I want to be like God. "Judge not lest you be judged".

Anyhow, if you WERE a Catholic why are you bashing them? It's always a bad idea to disrespect your original religion. I learnt a lot of good things when I learnt about Jesus as a kid. It all sounded so nice.

I find when people knock Jesus they mock a distortion or an establishment, which never achieves anything, ever. He's teachings are very simple. I've never found anything that I could knock in the message in the gospels.. The bible on the other hand, well I read it. Prophets can be very interesting.

I'm more interested in the mindset of haters when it comes to religion. If your god is real then how can it be hurt? It's not a god if you don't believe. To me it gets stranger when people think they understand the mind of god.

There's a point where all religions meet. Don't you think?

reply to post by squandered

Semantics... so you are still saying that the bone church is related to Catholicism?

Can you atleast pretend to make an effort to read up on its history? It IS a roman catholic chapel, and the bone work was commissioned by the house of Shwarzenberg - a noble house.


So its not quite the work of a "drunk hippy monk having fun playing with bones".

Smedley knows a hell of alot more with what hes talkng about than you do. Read his posts and you can understand what exactly it is im "judging" as amoral and unethical.

"Judge not lest you be judged".

Although i share this basic belief, it is nuanced. For instance, i try not to criticize those who i know i cant win over to my side.. And this pertains to matters that are a frankly none of my business. So, ill generally stay out. In other instances i do speak up when something is wrong. Your radical moral relativism "judgement is wrong and ungodly" is completely unconscionable and mindless, and in my opinion extreme. Sometimes you do have to judge, criticize and condemn beliefs and actions that jeopardize the well being of mankinds moral awareness.

I find this chapel to be a work of horror, rather than art. Maybe to your hippy mind, theres nothing wrong with it, however, smedley is completely on target with what this chapel is meant to symbolize, in the heart of the bohemian countryside.

To him its natural and normal, and an expression of the dark, insane and irrational...but to me, it is entirely unnatural and unhealthy, irreverant and contemptuous of the gift of life. To him, because death, evil and irrationality exists, it deserves to be made sacred. I completely disagree, and in fact, most human beings would find this spiritual philosophy the Nadir of human depravity. To make evil, good and good (that is, the singular pursuit of good), evil.

reply to post by squandered

Semantics... so you are still saying that the bone church is related to Catholicism? Even your original assumption that it's a catholic establishment, (or ever was) doesn't actually relate it to the Roman Catholic church.

I don't know about it not being Catholic.

The Sedlec Ossuary is a small Roman Catholic chapel, located beneath the Cemetery Church of All Saints in Sedlec, a suburb of Kutná Hora in the Czech Republic. The ossuary contains approximately 40,000-70,000 human skeletons which have been artistically arranged to form decorations and furnishings for the chapel.

en.wikipedia.org...

The Sedlec Ossuary ( Kostnice Sedlec ) is a Roman Catholic Church in Sedlec, The Czech Republic, Famous for its unusual, organic decorations.

www.binscorner.com...

The Roman Catholic chapel, Sedlec Ossuary, is home to between 40,000 and 70,000 human skeletons. These skeletons have been used to decorate the church with bone chandeliers, skeletal arches and large “bells”; piles of human bones with a hollow centre.

purpleslinky.com...

I came across this really cool video as well that I thought I'd share.

reply to post by jackflap


Thanks for the info. It's a great town. It was lost in history because of communism. Why ruin a place with preconceptions?

To dontreally

I'm still saying it's pagan... I still say that the monk had his own direction...

Is this an undeclared jewish / catholic ideological battle?

reply to post by squandered


And i say youve never actually been to the Czech republic, but rather lying to get attention....

Its fun distorting facts, isnt it?

reply to post by jackflap

thansk for the vid

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by squandered

 

And i say youve never actually been to the Czech republic, but rather lying to get attention....

Its fun distorting facts, isnt it?

edit on 14-2-2011 by dontreally because: (no reason given)

Is it fun? You tell me. You are one with the anti-pope agenda. I have given my reasons for liking the place. You come across like a troll.

Creeps me out.
I wouldn't go there.

Whats really sick, disgusting and above all pathetic, is the sense of "coolness" people experience when they embrace the specter of evil.

It is the most pathetic self delusion... Whats even more pathetic are these 'mystics' who think theyve transcended their ego, when in truth they have simply barricaded themselves in their own little world...

To quote Isaiah (who was referring to these sort of psychopaths - gnosticism afterall is Egyptian/Babylonian in origin)

Woe to you who add house to house
and join field to field
till no space is left
and you live alone in the land.

The LORD Almighty has declared in my hearing:
"Surely the great houses will become desolate,
the fine mansions left without occupants."

reply to post by squandered


You just said before that it wasnt catholic, when it IS catholic.

You than continue to insist that a monk bulit this bone art display, when its say clearly in its wikipedia profile that it was commissioned by the house of Schwarzenberg and built by a local craftsman. Hence the massive bone-stylized seal of the house of shwarzenberg.

It is completely normal to criticize this, and my criticism of the catholic pagan church is also very grounded in reason. They are just as barbaric and gnostic as their muslim counterparts. Read a book on history. I dont even want to go through the appalling history of the crusades, inquisitions that the Catholic church supported both financially with its contacts and publically with its endorsements. Whats really disgusting though were the innumerable rapes, mutilations committed by the ennraged crusaders. This they did indiscriminantly, to Jew and Muslim.

Though, i dont just criticize the church. The muslims perhaps are even more barbaric.

This behavior is an expression of a supremely twisted philosophy that makes the nihilistic, baleful and evil, holy and sacred. It is an expression of the same dionysian spirit, but now ascribed to "the wrath of allah" - which apparently also permits eye gouging, rape of woman, killing of children and bodily mutilation.

I just finished reading winston churchhills favorite historian, Alexander Kinglake, while he sojourned briefly in Safed Israel. During his stay some psychotic muslim cleric named Mamood Dafoor 'prophesied' that at a certain time next week the Jews would be pillaged, and despoiled of their gold, silver, jewels and property. A week past and the day came, and it happened. Safeds Jews ran for their lives (this btw was in 1840, some 100 years before the "arab-israeli" problems began. Of course that is arab/british propaganda as any student of history knows. The arabs have always brutually oppressed the Jews in every country they live in, and massacred them on very many different ocassions on whim). A month or so later this same man made a second prophecy of the same thing. Kinglake regarded this as an "amuzing experiment", and admitted to grinning when he heard the report., Yet, felt he should probably help the Jews. See the ambivalcne and the overall cool in the face of other peoples oppression and sufferring? He simply doesnt care, and if he DID make an effort, which he did towards the end, he prided himself greatly for it. He was a man with "godlike" powers which he exercized at a whim.

This is what an eton college and camridge university education gives to someone.

It disgusts me, completely and totally.

The roman catholic church controls the entire world and has so since its inception, no one can deny that all the worlds prominent leaders have publily bowed down to the papal rule, yes even islam!
Yes we are still under roman rule believe it or not, and will remain so until the falling away, (the apostacy of the roman catholic church).
The roman catholic church uses the same pagan symbols as does islam, just have a look at what are the symbols the pope uses on his robe and mitre.
The roman catholic church was established by the apostle Peter and in the book of Mathew 16;23, Jesus turns to Peter and says " get behind me Satan! you are a stumbling block to me, you do not have in mind the things of god, but the things of men."

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by squandered

 

You just said before that it wasnt catholic, when it IS catholic.

This behavior is an expression of a supremely twisted philosophy that makes the nihilistic, baleful and evil, holy and sacred. It is an expression of the same dionysian spirit, but now ascribed to "the wrath of allah" - which apparently also permits eye gouging, rape of woman, killing of children and bodily mutilation.

I just finished reading winston churchhills favorite historian

I was following the threads where the origin was considered Eastern. You overstate the connection to Rome or the Pope... Your OP is a flight of fancy.

You can judge the bones and that's your business, but many of us don't share your outrage. You assume that your interpretation is the natural conclusion based on a book. You don't even know your own bible.

I read your brief history of Jewish oppression. Obviously you need to protect yourselves. Arabs are nutters too and also hold grudges against people based on a book.

reply to post by squandered


The fact that this is a recognized Roman Catholic chapel implicates the church. If this were an investigation, this wouldnt be pertinent information. If for instance somebody were to get injured on this property, the roman catholic diocese of that particular region would have to cover the damages.

You assume that your interpretation is the natural conclusion based on a book. You don't even know your own bible.

What? Personally, i dont think it requires a bible to understand that sadism is wrong and unnatural, and indeed detrimental to everyones physical wellbeing...Therefore, we should all seekto better, kinder and more compassionate people. Things like this regardless of what you naively assume, opposes this spiritual prerogative.

My criticism doesnt rely on the bible. There are plenty of agnostic and atheistic liberals who would consider this just as strange and macabre as i do, without recourse to the bible. This is simply the phenomena of the human conscience - which happens to be what the Torah and Tanakh beckons man to cultivate.