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The Roman Catholic Church Isnt Evil

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posted on Feb, 12 2011 @ 08:34 PM
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reply to post by dontreally
 


You wrote:

["However, i do have the humility to acknowledge my strength as not being my own, but G-d given. Praise goes to G-d because he is the one who gives it."]

I take this to be your own attitude on the matter. In that case: You're asserting an assumption, without a shred of explanation. Ofcourse even less justification.

As some of your later comments are related to this, it would have been a good idea to clarify it before rushing on to ideas, which not only are doctrinal, but also served in preacher-mood.

Definitely ending up with circle-argumentation, as when you arrive at:

Quote: ["to a level that seeks to transmute the evil of this world, to good. This is done by following G-ds will and sacrificing ones own 'animal', which is symbolized by the Ram that was replaced with Isaac (the Ram symbolizing Aries, the highest of the zodiacal/spiritual powers)"]

Except by resorting to a strict christian 'original sin' doctrine (a logical and theological nightmare), any intrinsic 'evil' would be ascribed to a creator thus emphasizing the original gnostic claims.




posted on Feb, 13 2011 @ 12:30 AM
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reply to post by dontreally
 


Well, you say that from your present point of view, and you aren't wrong to think so. I, on the other hand, see the viability of a death-centric religion. The purpose of life, that is, the end of life, is death. The inevitable fate of all things is to die, not to live. Immortality is a myth to a death-cult, and an enemy, as it perpetuates the torment of life. Death is release. Buddhism is a death-centric religion; oblivion is valued and the pain of life shunned.


People who worship gods of war and mayhem are ultilamtely going to be consumed by such gods of war and mayhem.
Yes, and that is precisely why they must worship gods of war. They recognize that they are doomed to live in a Domain of War, and so they are faced with a choice; either live and suffer and die anonymously in this warzone, or become a king, inflict suffering upon the enemies of god, and leave a glorious legacy.


Way to test G-d.
Here, it becomes clear that I am right. Religious values are not universal. You think that this is an affront or insult to God/G-d, but I do not believe in such a being. The totality of the universe is conscious, but it is also an idiot god, a slumbering, unconscious entity. While the universe dreams, there is no god.

Didn't the Abrahamites still practice animal sacrifice?



posted on Feb, 13 2011 @ 05:11 PM
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reply to post by bogomil
 





I take this to be your own attitude on the matter.


Well, ya, it happened to ME. I think i would be the one to interpret its meaning.




In that case: You're asserting an assumption, without a shred of explanation. Ofcourse even less justification.


HUUUH? That was just insane nonsense.




Except by resorting to a strict christian 'original sin' doctrine (a logical and theological nightmare), any intrinsic 'evil' would be ascribed to a creator thus emphasizing the original gnostic claims.


I wouldnt expect you to understand the chasm of difference between catholic original sin, and the kabbalistic Olam Tikkun.

Human beings bring darkness into the world. With Adams "fall" his consciousness became trapped so to speak in the darkness of the physical world. This resulted in a change of his original awareness and perception of reality. Gnosticism, is a consequence of that fall.

Original sin regards man as inherently unable to transmute darkness into light. Judaism teaches the complete opposite. Mans own inner strength and power to change - because of his power of free will. That simple good deeds is what makes this world of darkness, "glow" with the lights of holiness which are good actions and good words. "Constructive" behavior, in other words.



posted on Feb, 13 2011 @ 05:38 PM
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reply to post by SmedleyBurlap
 



oblivion is valued and the pain of life shunned.


What an absolutely terrifying belief system. Makes sense that a massive statue of Buddah ince stood in Bohemian Grove.

I really cannot waste words trying to express to you how horrific, cruel and psychotic that mentality is. It leads to holocausts, programs, discriminatory treatment, rapes, and other horrible human rights offences.

This indeed is the 'ethos' of the worlds great religions, regardless of what their kind hearted proponents imagine. Sufism, Gnosticism, Vedanta, Buddhism all share this misanthropic death-centric perspective. Judaism stands alone in its reverence for life, and living, and changing this world and the hardened hearts that make it a nightmare for others, into a garden of eden. Eden in Hebrew of course means 'pleasure'.




Yes, and that is precisely why they must worship gods of war. They recognize that they are doomed to live in a Domain of War, and so they are faced with a choice; either live and suffer and die anonymously in this warzone, or become a king, inflict suffering upon the enemies of god, and leave a glorious legacy.


Its nice talking to someone so candid.

All i can say is that a massive leap of faith. You assume that suffering ends in this world. It does not. Every single action, thought and word reverberates and leaves its affect even long after you die. For a glutton, his gluttony will cause him untold spiritual sufferring in the next world. Now if thats the destined situation of a glutton, imagine what the hell of a murderer, blasphemer, rapist, torturer would be. Unheard of spiritual sufferring, that makes lava in this world seem like nothing. Even if your skin grew back after everytime it melted off, that would fail to evince the punishment deserving of one that stifles the growth, peace and tranquility of others. If you want to worship death, do so by yourself. Do not subject others to your insanity.

Of course, this argument is moot to one so perfcolated by this spirit of war. Just as this spirit can inspire one to do these acts, so to will your be subjected to "it". I say it, because it isnt some separate power. Its an attribute of G-d. Samael, a name never utterred by orthodox Jews, will inflict the most unimaginable punishment on those who feel theyve earned his 'glory'. Its meaningless, and stupid, and in the end you will be unable to regret (having condemned yourself to nonexistence) having made such a dismal name for yourself. It is quite sad. You can kill the living, but you cant take away the merit they have made for themselves. Reincarnation exists. You can kill the body, and indeed agitate the mind, but the soul will live on and one day be reborn to inherit this beautiful earth, which by than will be a "land of the living".

I would prefer to suffer for OTHERS, in grace, and humility, than be the cause of other peoples pain in some vain, obscene effort to live a life worth living.

It is absolutely startling that people like you exist. The Torah calls you Amalek. Amalek, were the ones who attacked Israel before they came to the chosen land. The gematria of amalek, is the same as Safuk - doubt. When one seeks true union with G-d, he has to completely nullify his own self - as i have done and try to do when i suffer, in order to reach the "hold land", a symbol for the highest spiritual attainment. Amalek, the enemy, is the doubt that causes one to fall, and not make the effort to work for G-d. Doubt is the chief of all evils.

As with all things, the spiritual amalek is reflected in the realtime physical world as those with your particular philosophy, who take it upon themselves to destroy those who represent the complete opposite of what you believe, the Jews (and by and large most christians who share these basic spiritual qualities)




Didn't the Abrahamites still practice animal sacrifice?


Your point? An animal is a living symbol, as all things are. When a Ram is sacrificed, its lifeforce - its energy, is drawn to the forces of holiness, to HaKoDeSh BaRuK Hu - G-d.

The significance of the temple mount lies in its being the junction between the spiritual and physical world. Hence the biblical prohibition not to bring sacrifices to any other site. When this ritual is performed at this one site, all of reality is influenced by it. All human beings will than become motivated, unconsciously, to be better people. And most importantly, recognize the oneness of their existence. This is why when the Temple stood, the Cherubs within the Temple looked face to face.
edit on 13-2-2011 by dontreally because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 13 2011 @ 05:39 PM
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reply to post by dontreally
 


You wrote:

["HUUUH? That was just insane nonsense."]

Assumptions and axiomatically-based conclusions differ considerably concerning such as 'explanation', 'justification' and ofcourse 'validity'.

Quote: ["I wouldnt expect you to understand the chasm of difference between catholic original sin, and the kabbalistic Olam Tikkun."]

I do know something about kabbalism, but not to any specialist degree. I will sincerely and with an open mind read your qualified opinions on the subject (I am NOT sarcastic, I like competence).

Quote: ["Human beings bring darkness into the world."]

That's what's to be demonstrated. On its own, it's a postulate.

Quote: ["With Adams "fall" his consciousness became trapped so to speak in the darkness of the physical world. This resulted in a change of his original awareness and perception of reality. Gnosticism, is a consequence of that fall."]

'Fall' is ofcourse the key-word here. That's why I formerly referred to the original gnostic position, as the 'frame' around the 'fall' is of crucial importance.

Quote: ["Original sin regards man as inherently unable to transmute darkness into light. Judaism teaches the complete opposite. Mans own inner strength and power to change - because of his power of free will."]

"Man's own inner strength....etc" is a position I strongly support. It's the underlying theological model I question. (My own intellectual leanings are somewhere between Hinayana and pre-christian gnosticism).



posted on Feb, 13 2011 @ 05:57 PM
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reply to post by bogomil
 





Assumptions and axiomatically-based conclusions differ considerably concerning such as 'explanation', 'justification' and ofcourse 'validity'.


You are overcomplicating a seriously very simple thing. I experienced sufferring and I am entitled, just as you are, to react to it.

What I think youre saying is that nothing is objective, everything is subjective, and therefore everything is equivalent.



That's what's to be demonstrated. On its own, it's a postulate.


No, its a simple fact. People have the ability to choose, they make choices, and their choices affect others. Over a long period of time, an enlightened people - Adam, can devolve into what we have today, a more or less evil, sensualized, mankind....



posted on Feb, 13 2011 @ 06:11 PM
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Oh big deal. Bones are not evil or satanic, people are. The use of bones as relics has an ancient history.

Plenty of TRUE evil in organized religion to pick from.



posted on Feb, 13 2011 @ 06:31 PM
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reply to post by dontreally
 


Kind of reminds me of this.




The powers that be have an enduring fascination with human body parts. This can be understood only when we try to understand their mindset. Seeing themselves as conquerors of human species, human body parts have “trophy” significance to them. For the same reason a seasoned hunter hangs the heads and furs of game in his living room. For example, the Skulls and Bones secret society that represents America’s owners is known to keep the skulls of Geronimo and Pancho Villa in its private collection. A similar elitist club, the Bohemian Grove has human skulls nailed to signposts. We are told that the grotesque bone exhibits at Sedlec Ossuary were created for “blessing” the dead. While the utilitarianism of having one’s bones turned into chandeliers may make Adam Smith proud, would the dead really approve it if they had a choice before dying? Or were the powers that be making a statement when they had these bone exhibits crafted? While the Sedlec Ossuary may be an extreme case of “bone-waving” by the powers that be, more subtle “bone-waving” has already crept into mainstream Western architecture through modern classical architecture.


www.cabaltimes.com...
edit on 13-2-2011 by jackflap because: To add external content and link.



posted on Feb, 13 2011 @ 06:39 PM
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reply to post by dontreally
 


You wrote (on assumptions and axioms):

["You are overcomplicating a seriously very simple thing. I experienced sufferring and I am entitled, just as you are, to react to it."]

On an open, non-hostile note. I didn't catch this one. Sorry, may be me not seeing the obvious.

Quote: [" What I think youre saying is that nothing is objective, everything is subjective, and therefore everything is equivalent."]

Not quite. I'm operating with 'relative realities' which CAN be defined as self-contained systems/structures. Such systems/structures have different 'approximative truth-value', some 'more' true than others. But none of them absolutes.

Quote: ["People have the ability to choose, they make choices, and their choices affect others. Over a long period of time, an enlightened people - Adam, can devolve into what we have today, a more or less evil, sensualized, mankind...."]

The 'free will' extent depends on the 'settings' of the cosmic ground-conditions (zero-point), which there are many theist doctrinal CLAIMS on knowing, but little real knowledge about.





edit on 13-2-2011 by bogomil because: clarification



posted on Feb, 13 2011 @ 07:17 PM
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reply to post by bogomil
 



Over a long period of time, an enlightened people - Adam, can devolve into what we have today, a more or less evil, sensualized, mankind.


Attired in suit jackets and donning only the coolest cuff links, attending Church has never been so fashionable!




posted on Feb, 13 2011 @ 07:27 PM
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What you have here is some pictures of ONE of the plague chapels.There is nothing diabolic here apart from the way the black death swept over Europe.These are literal expressions of the mortality and inevitability of the human condition.

Google plague chapel !
edit on 13-2-2011 by Cygnus_Hunter because: bree



posted on Feb, 13 2011 @ 08:07 PM
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reply to post by jackflap
 


Not believing in 'absolutes' of any kind presently being available to mankind

(maybe we'll never know them.....maybe there even aren't any absolutes)

...I naturally don't believe in elitism either.

Probably annoying a lot of people on ATS when I insist, that their claims of elitist absolutes are GIGO (garbage in, garbage out) only existing in their own minds for some psychological reasons.



posted on Feb, 13 2011 @ 08:23 PM
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I wonder how the people who rate this as as evidence of evil view Hindus who burn bodies on the Ganges?

I've been to this place. It's like a cave. It's not a place of worship. They made beautiful cathedrals for that. Some Europeans look down on the people / places that made these. There's more than one.

IMO it's better to acknowledge the fact we all die and be real about it. If we hide our skeletons and pretend death doesn't exist, well.. look at the sheeple enabled by the TV to have mental problems whilst thinking the world cares about their idea of rights.



posted on Feb, 13 2011 @ 08:24 PM
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Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by GrisGris
 




The god of the roman catholic church is not the same G-d christians and Jews identify with.

Utter paranoid nonsense. When I saw the thread title my first thought was "Of course it's not!" but I ought to have known what kind of loony thread it would turn out to be.
Sigh... Anti-Catholic bigotry is rife here on ATS, and it's a terrible shame that lifelong Protestants such as me, have to jump in and point out things that should be blindingly obvious.
Vicky



posted on Feb, 13 2011 @ 08:24 PM
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reply to post by dontreally
 



Aha . . . just knew Condalisa Rice was related to Dracula; she even looks like him.



posted on Feb, 13 2011 @ 08:43 PM
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Originally posted by Cygnus_Hunter
What you have here is some pictures of ONE of the plague chapels.There is nothing diabolic here apart from the way the black death swept over Europe.These are literal expressions of the mortality and inevitability of the human condition.

Google plague chapel !
edit on 13-2-2011 by Cygnus_Hunter because: bree

Thank you for that explanation! Something tells me that it will be largely ignored - some people would far rather see something horrible where it doesn't exist..
Death happens. I read somewhere that the American culture is one of the most death-denying - hence the terms 'passed' and 'gone' which are so ambiguous! (I am an ESOL teacher, and I get tired of explaining that New Zealanders now use American lexis almost exclusively, and that it's not safe to respond to 'my father's gone' with "Oh, where? I hope he has a good holiday"..
Is this death-denying thing the reason why people think there's something evil about this chapel?
Vicky



posted on Feb, 13 2011 @ 09:13 PM
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reply to post by Vicky32
 


I have on several occasions on ATS seen protestants openly declare themselves to be 'christians' as opposed to catholics, who only are 'christians' when they conveniently fill out overall statistics for 'christianity' to greater numbers.

So I have a certainly slightly impertinent, but non-aggressive question to you. How can 'christians' agree on there being only one and the same god, when detailed intrinsic aspects of this god differ from denomination to denomination. E.g. the trinity question, the Arian controversy and not least the ethically and motivationally various 'gods' in christianity.

To pre-empt misunderstandings:

I can understand, that christians theoretically can relate to interpretation-problems and claim different god-versions on such. A reasonable position, suitable for most abstract concepts.

But to cut it down to such precise defintions as the trinity or not, if the holy ghost is female, neutrum or male, or the Arian controversy is beyond just interpretation quibbles.

Using a perhaps weak allegory: People could INSIST that Mr. Jones has brown eyes alternatively blue eyes (depending on the claimant), and instead of agreeing on Mr Jones then being two different persons with the same name, he's still one person with two eye-colours.

Comments?



posted on Feb, 13 2011 @ 09:21 PM
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Seems that the Sedlec Ossuary was not only the repository for "abolished" plague graves,but also contained the bones of victims from 15th century Hussite Wars.


In 1278 the Cistercian abbot of Sedlec, Henry, traveled to Palestine and the ‘Holy Land’, bringing home a sample of earth from Golgotha which was later, upon his return, sprinkled over the grounds of his local cemetery. The grounds were immediately considered scared, and hence became a much sought after location for relatives to bury their dead. In the 14th century, the Black Death spread the bubonic plague across Europe and now 30,000 bodies all wanted a resting place within the sacred grounds. Such vast numbers of dead led to the creation of the ossuary in 1511 by a half-blind monk who gathered up the bones to be stacked up within the ossuary, making space for new corpses, which were soon taken up by more victims from 15th century Hussite Wars. The ossuary itself is situated in the basement of the All Saint’s Chapel.

The famous church of bones :: Sedlec Ossuary
But back on track,the dominant faith in Romania where the OP has based his theory on isn't actually "Roman Catholosism" but Eastern Orthodox.


Romania is a secular state, and it has no state religion. However, an overwhelming majority of the country's citizens are Christian. 86.7% of the country's population identified as Eastern Orthodox in the 2002 census (see also: History of Christianity in Romania). Other Christian denominations include Roman Catholicism (4.7%), Calvinism (3.7%), Pentecostal denominations (1.5%) and the Romanian Greek-Catholic Church (0.9%). Romania also has a small but historically significant Muslim minority, concentrated in Dobrogea, who are mostly of Crimean Tatar and Turkish ethnicity and number 67,500 people. Based on the 2002 census data, there are also approximately 6,000 Jews and 23,105 people who are of no religion or atheist.

Religion in Romania
edit on 13-2-2011 by Cygnus_Hunter because: cheese.



posted on Feb, 13 2011 @ 10:08 PM
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Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by Vicky32
 


I have on several occasions on ATS seen protestants openly declare themselves to be 'christians' as opposed to catholics, who only are 'christians' when they conveniently fill out overall statistics for 'christianity' to greater numbers.

So I have a certainly slightly impertinent, but non-aggressive question to you. How can 'christians' agree on there being only one and the same god, when detailed intrinsic aspects of this god differ from denomination to denomination. E.g. the trinity question, the Arian controversy and not least the ethically and motivationally various 'gods' in christianity.

To pre-empt misunderstandings:

I can understand, that christians theoretically can relate to interpretation-problems and claim different god-versions on such. A reasonable position, suitable for most abstract concepts.

But to cut it down to such precise defintions as the trinity or not, if the holy ghost is female, neutrum or male, or the Arian controversy is beyond just interpretation quibbles.

Using a perhaps weak allegory: People could INSIST that Mr. Jones has brown eyes alternatively blue eyes (depending on the claimant), and instead of agreeing on Mr Jones then being two different persons with the same name, he's still one person with two eye-colours.

Comments?


Well... I think there are huge misunderstandings that some Protestants have, about what Catholics believe. (Some anti-Catholic Protestants have a part in spreading these misunderstandings, which makes me very sad,)
Nevertheless, the Catholic and Protestant Gods are simply the same God, no matter what some people think - there's really not a problem.
Arianism is not orthodox Christianity, whatever else it is.
The same applies to Jehovahs Witnesses, Mormons, Christian Scientists and other new movements. Those are religions, yes, and they may have grown out of Christianity, but they are utterly heterodox.
IMO, they don't worship the same God.
However, if Protestants only knew - Catholics don't worship Mary or the saints, they don't worship the Pope, and the only meaningful quarrel between them is that of sola scriptura versus Tradition, which is something most Protestants don't even understand (I didn't until recently!)
Tradition is NOT the same thing as "tradittions of men"...
Vicky



posted on Feb, 13 2011 @ 10:27 PM
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disease is in the bones...how catholic...yeszz...make sure they wipe out all the wine in the cup after the communion ceremony yeszzs we don't want to waste any of His blood, yeszz
He paid more than enough for us....with His sacrifice the first time....He's not still on the cross we are bought and paid for , our past, present and our future sins...paid for already. ( hey, this means the war is over). when the Angel said "Peace on Earth, Goodwill toward Men", that means from God's view toward His people,....not between men on earth



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