The Roman Catholic Church Isnt Evil

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by Vicky32

 

So this chapel is completely normal to you? It doesnt suggest anything about Catholic philosophy (which is obviously dualistic)??

No, it doesn't particularly suggest anything to me... just that it's a culture you possibly don't "get"... (Mediaeval Europe.) In a society where as C S Lewis has pointed out, living to adulthood was a lottery, people were more accustomed to death. As late as the 19th century, people were not screened from the idea or the fact of death - how could they be, when their parents, siblings etc could die before their very eyes?

Dualistic in what sense? If you mean dualistic in the sense of non-materialistic, then of course it is! Religion is by its nature. If you mean dualistic in the sense of their being two equal powers, then I disagree, it's not.
Vicky

Originally posted by squandered

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by squandered

 

And i say youve never actually been to the Czech republic, but rather lying to get attention....

Its fun distorting facts, isnt it?

edit on 14-2-2011 by dontreally because: (no reason given)

Is it fun? You tell me. You are one with the anti-pope agenda. I have given my reasons for liking the place. You come across like a troll.

I have to agree Squandered, that he does, sadly.
Why on earth would be say you've never been there? Bizarre...
Vicky

reply to post by dontreally


This is all well and good, but I don't read esoteric Jewish sources and apparently my sources are not good enough. If your argument hinges on comparing the Catholic Church to a mysterious 'true form' of Judaism that nobody is familiar with, then I am not able to discuss this with you.

If you can make your arguments without recourse to the authority of the old Jewish texts, then I can contribute something. There must be some proof somewhere in the world, other than in the pages of mouldering old books.

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by squandered

 

The fact that this is a recognized Roman Catholic chapel implicates the church.

That's hogwash. You are not representing a judge in a court of law, nor will anybody bring charges against a church because of a mediaeval shrine.

What? Personally, i dont think it requires a bible to understand that sadism is wrong and unnatural, and indeed detrimental to everyones physical wellbeing...Therefore, we should all seekto better, kinder and more compassionate people. Things like this regardless of what you naively assume, opposes this spiritual prerogative.

Hogwash # 2. You are making uninformed judgements and trying to press them onto Catholics. You are not going to convince people that you care about them when you don't listen to them.

My criticism ... This is simply the phenomena of the human conscience

Apparently other humans beg to disagree. It undoubtedly creeps some people out. You read more into it because of your interpretation of a bible that isn't related to the musing of a medieval monk.

reply to post by Vicky32


OK clearly you have a problem with objectivity.

What is it you think Pirates used skulls and bones on their flags? Why did they choose that insignia? Maybe perhaps because it implies death? And that its a message to those who see it, that they will bring death to those who dont give over to them what they want?

Bones signifies death. This chapel wasnt made for the pauper. It was commissioned by a noble house for christs sake.

reply to post by SmedleyBurlap


Well traditional Judaism has to do with these "moldering old texts" you deprecate.

These books were written 2200 - 1400 years ago, around the same time that gnostic and hermetic texts were being compiled. Obviously the Rabbis were aware of these philosophies. So, because the Talmud clearly and unambiguously rejects it, its age must have nothing to do with its significance to Judaism.

You embrace a belief system that is infact ancient. Judaism, aswell embraces a theology that is ancient. Why is this considered "moldering" for, but not the former? Because it doesnt suit your argument, that Judaism has "hedonistic aspects"? You can only see these aspects in sabatean, or frankist which isnt even Judaism. Neither is reform Judaism, or conservative or reconstructionist. Everything but Orthodox, traditional Judaism is Judaism.

Judaism does not emabrace this "hedonistic or stoic" aspect that you said it does.

Please be honest enough to admit that.

reply to post by dontreally


Well, all that I'm saying is that Judaism is just one among many ancient religions, and I don't know anything about Orthodox Judaism, and you aren't going to be able to convince me of anything using Orthodox Judaic arguments because I don't know the first thing about them. You have to reground the arguments in something more immediate and close to hand than old books that I have not and can not read.

reply to post by dontreally


while i believe that catholics are evil i dont see anything evil about that church. the body is a vessel and after your dead its a wasted shell. id be honored if my bones were used for decoration. i want a sky burial anyway. then id like to get my body cremated and the ash to be turned into a lifegem.

Schwarzenberg (Czech: ze Švarcenberka) is the name of a Franconian and Bohemian aristocratic family.

The family was first mentioned in 1172. A branch of the Seinsheim family (the non-Schwarzenberg portion died out in 1958) was created when Erkinger I of Seinsheim acquired the Franconian barony of Schwarzenberg, the castle Schwarzenberg and the title Baron of Schwarzenberg, in 1405–21. At this time, they also possessed some fiefdoms in Bohemia. In 1599 the Schwarzenbergs were elevated to Counts and in 1670 to Princes. The House of Schwarzenberg came into extensive land holdings in Bohemia in 1661 through a marriage alliance with the House of Eggenberg. In the 1670s, they established their primary seat in Bohemia. Until 1918 their primary residence was in Český Krumlov, Bohemia (now in the Czech Republic).

en.wikipedia.org...

Bohemian aristocratic family? Where have I heard Bohemian before? Anyway I don't believe I'd be attending services at that bone church. The amount of gold fleeced from the flock is more than can be endured by a Roman eagle, I'm sure. This House of Schwarzenberg is interesting to say the least.

I thought a little bit of information about the people who commissioned the work was in order.

Churches - some people may know my views on organized religion, which is that it is manmade and not from a higher spiritual realm. But I believe that a lot of churches help a lot of people in many ways.

However, can you please prove to me that the roman catholic church is not evil, when it is in the business of exalting an ordinary man to act as if he is next in line to God, and when it is in the business of possessing huge untold wealth and stands by while people, including a lot of its followers, are starving, and when it is in the business of brainwashing its followers?

No, the Catholic Church is neither good, nor evil. It is an existential fact that it...exists. But that doesn't make everything it preaches factual morally, scientifically, etc.

Only its actions will be judged by history, and its endurance in maintaining its values is under continual, perhaps eternal questioning.

reply to post by smthngmssnghr


Hi smth,

Can you please tell me any good the roman catholic church does?

I would really like to know.

Originally posted by dontreally
This is done by following G-ds will and sacrificing ones own 'animal', which is symbolized by the Ram that was replaced with Isaac (the Ram symbolizing Aries, the highest of the zodiacal/spiritual powers)

When did you last read the Torah?

Isaac was replaced by the ram. The ram was not replaced with Isaac.

Originally posted by catwhoknowsplusone
Churches - some people may know my views on organized religion, which is that it is manmade and not from a higher spiritual realm. But I believe that a lot of churches help a lot of people in many ways.

However, can you please prove to me that the roman catholic church is not evil, when it is in the business of exalting an ordinary man to act as if he is next in line to God, and when it is in the business of possessing huge untold wealth and stands by while people, including a lot of its followers, are starving, and when it is in the business of brainwashing its followers?

It seems to me, that trying to prove anything to you such as you ask, would be a waste of time! You wouldn't accept it.

reply to post by Vicky32


OK Vicky,

You seem to be an authority on what I would and would not accept.

Here is what I would welcome - a cogent argument that the roman catholic church is not evil.

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by Stormdancer777

 

At most, I find it amuzing how crazy some people are.

Imagine most catholics saw this, and understood that this was a roman catholic chapel bearing Church recognition. It puts the pope in a whole new light, doesnt it?

See, the catholics in power dont want us to know about their dualism. Their midnight masses and their other ghastly secrets that are probably too horrific to relate (not taht i know, but i would suspect child abuse, spiritual slave ie; torture based mind control, among other things as 'necessary'.....As my signature says, and as John Milton knew well "necessity is the tyrants plea". The devil makes the most evil things seem "neutral" because of the plea of necessity)...

So i see this church as anything but playing, but real serious death worship.

Those aristocrats dont play around.

I also doubt that all those bones are "nuns and saints" who donated their bones as decoration. I think most spiritual minded people would want their bones left alone, to dissolve naturally in the earth, in peace. Those bones are probably taken from a mass grave.. They probably belong to victims of massacres which were quite common in that area of Bohemia in the 1700s

As an apologist for Judaism, I would have thought the libel of The Protocols of the Elders of Zion would have taught you not to make insane and unproven accusations against members of a religion.

As a spiritual minded person myself, I really don't care what happens to my body or bones after I've discarded it. If someone wants my organs, or wants to let med students practise on my corpse, fine. If someone wants to make sculptures from my bones, fine. If someone wants to chuck my body into a compost heap, that's fine too.

Why would a spiritual person be worried about the disposal of their material remains?

Originally posted by catwhoknowsplusone
reply to post by smthngmssnghr

 

Hi smth,

Can you please tell me any good the roman catholic church does?

I would really like to know.

I really wish I could answer, but I am at as much of a loss on that as you are.

Christians can be frightening people.

reply to post by smthngmssnghr


Hi smth,

Thanks for answering. You could not tell me one good thing they do.

I am not at a loss. The roman catholic church hurts humans and hurts this world, and I wish more people would realize that.

reply to post by smthngmssnghr


P.S. smth,

The roman catholic church has nothing to do with Christ.

Nor do a lot of so-called christians. And nor do most churches.

Let us not crucify Jesus Christ all over again.

reply to post by SmedleyBurlap


Im not going to reground my argument, but explain to you very simply why you are wrong.

Between the "giving of the Torah" and the beginnings of Judaism - circa 1300 BCE to roughly the 17th century, there was only one Judaism as delineated in the Mishna and Gemara (the Talmud) and practiced for over 3 millenia by observant Jews.

Only with the European enlightenment did some Jews reject the Mesora (tradition) and devise a modern highly diluted 'reformed' Judaism, which frankly wasnt in any way Jewish anymore.

For you to base any argument of yours on these later false distortions of Judaism, is tantamount to me claiming America was based on totalitarian, socialitic ideals, because this is the way America appears today.