Chemtrail believers have no idea!

reply to post by SIKKAthanMOST


What you are seeing is standard daily air traffic coupled with standard sign of weather change......clouds at flight level, cirrus, show wet weather is coming. People in all societies have known this simple fact for eons.
The weather is making the contrail, the contrail is not creating the weather, although it is know they change into cirrus clouds. But if the sky couldn't support there wouldn't be contrails. Try it yourself next time you are cross country and away from heavy airport traffic. Clear, deep blue skies with no clouds will have few, shorter persistent contrails. Lighter, wispy clouds in a light blue sky, contrails will develop and might persist. It's weather, working the way weather always has.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


The why, the what and the who - never going to get or your going to get hundreds of answers that differ - The truth is that it's happening. I have time lapses much like other sites that show the trail is growing instead of evaporating.

Does anyone remember how dark blue and beautiful the sky used to be, last year in Big Bear, Ca there was a huge storm that left about 6 feet of snow, when it cleared around 11 am that morning the sky was so clear and soo dark blue that I took pictures of just the sky because I couldn't remember it being that dark.

Whatever goes up comes down, stupid gravity thing

reply to post by vermonster


No on all accounts. It's a pilot who lives in California, who funds the site himself. Not like InforWars, Will Thomas, Carnicom, Rense, etc which all have ads and usually asking for funding.
It doesn't take a lot to have a blog, I have one myself, free.

The only shills in the "chemtrail" theory are the people trying to sell it.

reply to post by stars15k


proliberty.com...
These are not flight paths.

and your evidence is backed by
another A typical post from another msm viewer

Originally posted by mileslong54
reply to post by stars15k

 

proliberty.com...
These are not flight paths.

edit on 19-1-2011 by mileslong54 because: (no reason given)

edit on 19-1-2011 by mileslong54 because: (no reason given)

Can you please provide evidence why these are not flight paths?

Thanks

reply to post by ZombieJesus


People could show you the un-marked planes, they could spray the chemtrails in your mouth while you were fully awake and people would not believe it. Flights don't normally go in circles and criss cross patterns, but I'm done trying to prove anything here, to some 4+4 will always equal jello.

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by ~Lucidity

 

here we have a group that believes someone is spraying them with something. If there was a general consensus on where, when and how often, we as a community, could either prove or disprove it. this isn't something that happened 10 years ago, or 40 years ago, people claim it's happening right now! If it's real, then it can be proven.

Spreading chemicals from high altitudes is a preposterous way to drug people up. However, there is some element of truth to the theory, contrails are unspent jet fuel, and it has been said in Scientific American or Popular Science that they travel in the jet stream and end up raining down in India or other parts of Asia which has apparently been linked to lung cancer and such. The EPA doesn't regulate emissions on jet aircraft.

Then, of course, there is cloud seeding and crop dusting which are true things that have been spread. This conspiracy isn't all that unbelievable, it's just a matter of who's dropping what into the air and for what reason, and who's paying for it.

...Oh, and also, NASA's rocket fuel for the shuttle has been inadvertantly emitting aluminum perchlorates that have been causing thyroid problems due to lettuce plants and such.

reply to post by mileslong54


Haven't met a "chemtrail" report you didn't believe, have you?
It's almost funny. You are aware that the consensus of the very cites you give do not match up, which was the point of this entire thread. And some are just "chemtrail" red herrings thrown out without thought or further research.

• Patents are not a sign something works or even exists off the paper it is written on. It is only for ownership of a product or idea, and always has been.
  
• HR 2977 was not written by the Rep involved, and he disowned it and had it rewritten when he found out. The items mentions are either speculative or not related to Space anyway. "Chemtrails" are atmospheric, not space related. And isn't using ET's weaponry a bigger story then some lines in the sky? Concluding "chemtrails" are real because of mention, means all the weaponry systems are real as well.? Yes, you probably do.
  

• Public interest? Like the general public is ever in agreement or knowledgeable about anything? Really? Sorry, lots of people think the earth is still flat, but it doesn't make them right.
  
• null
  

• Environmental testing is not germaine unless and until all other contributing factors have been excluded. Aluminum and barium are very common crustal elements. To not find them would be unusual. They are also used in industry, construction, agricultural, transportation, mining, and just about any other source of air and water pollution. You need to test the trail itself or prove what you found on the ground came from a plane. None of these reports do either.
  
• null
  

And all the other sources are speculative. Show some actual hard proof of a trail containing anything but water and dirty air from a plane. Test the trail itself. It's been done and it's always come up as being the product of combustion of jet fuel through a jet engine into a high-moisture, low-temperature environment. Most of what you see in a trail is atmospheric water that was already there, made visible by the Bergeron process. Contrails are studied extensively because of the persistence and the changes that might make on the overall climate, but the verdict among experts is still out. If you look for "contrail studies -chemtrails", you might learn something.

reply to post by wcitizen

My apologies sir, you are right it was a wrong assumption I made.

reply to post by mileslong54


Yeah, just like a cloud. Here's some first day Chemistry 101......ice at below freezing temperatures does not melt, it sublimes.
Sublimes means it switches from one state to another, skipping through a usual phase, in the case of water, ice evaporates before creating a liquid. The speed at which this happens depends on the moisture present in the air it released into. In the case of contrails, when the ice forms in an atmosphere that is drier, it sublimes quickly. If the air is already saturated, then the ice will form and persist.
Just like a cloud works. All clouds everywhere. Since the atmosphere began making clouds.
We all know contrails can persist and become cirrusform clouds. It's been a given for a really long time.
How long and how wide depends on many conditions. Here's a report that shows how just six contrails lasted for 10 hours and spread to cover a few thousand square miles. This is what good science looks like.
Spread of Isolated Contrails
It's a test we hopefully won't be able to reproduce. The final dimensions are found on page three.

Originally posted by mileslong54
reply to post by ZombieJesus

 

People could show you the un-marked planes, they could spray the chemtrails in your mouth while you were fully awake and people would not believe it. Flights don't normally go in circles and criss cross patterns, but I'm done trying to prove anything here, to some 4+4 will always equal jello.

Thank you for the patient and kind response.

Regarding planes flying in circles, it is actually quite common, it is known as "holding", and is typically employed when there are delays at the flights destination.

In aviation, holding (or flying a hold) is a maneuver designed to delay an aircraft already in flight while keeping it within a specified airspace.[1]

Link

FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION-Section 6. Holding Aircraft

Here is a good website also, regarding flight vectors.

SkyVector

If you take look through the flight charts, with the amount of air traffic, and airports, you will see that it is next to impossible for flight paths to never intersect.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer


Well, just from memory, explanations I've heard for chemtrails include: they're a weather modification program, they're doing it to combat global warming, they're spraying disease agents that cause various maladies, they're spraying metallic elements for some reason. It seems there's a lot of proposed ideas but not a single agreed-upon explanation.

I don't find that surprising. The government is denying it, so no official information is available. That means people are having to put all the pieces of information together to try to get the full picture.

Weather modification programme/combat global warming are not necessarily conflicting or mutualy exclusive. The metallic elements ARE what they spray in an alleged attempt to combat global warming/for weather modification. So this seemingly disparate information actually isn't disparate at all.

The scientific information for this can be found if you search for stratospheric aerosol spraying, or geoengineering. Reems of official scientific information does exist on this, it's just that they are denying it's already in use. Apparently, fungus spores play some role in this kind of spraying, so these may be included in with the metals.

There have also been many reports of disease causing agents being sprayed, and nano-fibres, etc. Things such as blood cells, nano-fibres, amongst other things. The Cabal seems to intend a population cull, to reduce the population by billions. This could be part of that project.

You might want to read what an 'insider' says, on www.holmestead.ca...
There's lots of other chemtrail information on the site.

Basically, the chemtrail situation is complex and everyone has to do their own research to understand those complexities. Unless you do that you will see discrepancies where there are none. That's not to say that there aren't some discrepancies, but not as many as suggested in the OP.

reply to post by AllSeeingI


the whole reason I started this thread is because of the confusion. You seem to be an authority on the subject since I have seen you posting on the subject for quite a while. here is my problem.

Your side claims there is a box with a bomb in it. If it were to end there, My side could investigate the box and verify if there was in deed a bomb in the box. But then your side cannot agree where the box is, or how many boxes exist, or if in fact there is a bomb in the box. the only thing I can find that you agree on is there is a box.

If you could point to a spot in the sky and everyone agree that it was chemtrails and I could prove to you that it wasn't, would that satisfy the argument? I didn't think so. that is why it's so frustrating. You and I have talked about this, and I agree that spraying has most likely happened, you even agreed that most of what is out there isn't chemtrails. Yet this thread is filled with adamant believers who think that they and everyone else is being sprayed everyday. What proof does anybody offer? A patent for spraying of some sort. All that proves is someone thought enough about it to seek a patent. Have you ever heard of United States Patent 5224646? I will fill you in. here is what it is:

An ice cream holder for collecting liquid from ice cream as it melts includes a peripheral ring with a plurality of apertures and a drinking slot. The holder includes a receptacle having an interior wall, an exterior wall, and a closed bottom portion. A top portion for receiving the ice cream includes a peripheral ring attached to the receptacle having a plurality of apertures through which the melted ice cream passes, and a drinking slot through which the liquid may be withdrawn and consumed. Ice cream is supported in the receptacle on an internal disk having a centrally located aperture through which the melted cream may pass. The internal disk is of such a configuration that a scoop of ice cream may be placed therein, or an ice cream cone may be inserted. Initially, ice cream is placed in the receptacle. As the cream melts, the liquid flows through the apertures in the peripheral ring and drips to the bottom of the receptacle. When the liquid has accumulated in the bottom, the user inverts the receptacle and drinks the liquid through a drinking slot in the peripheral ring. The invention not only prevents drips of the ice cream from contacting the user's clothes or the user, but is versatile in that it can hold a frozen confection or an ice cream cone, and is disposable or reusable.

link to patent

Have you ever seen this used? it has a patent.

Originally posted by ZombieJesus

Originally posted by mileslong54
reply to post by stars15k

 

proliberty.com...
These are not flight paths.

edit on 19-1-2011 by mileslong54 because: (no reason given)

edit on 19-1-2011 by mileslong54 because: (no reason given)

Can you please provide evidence why these are not flight paths?

Thanks

For emphasis, pulled the whole "nested" quotes....because I'D like to see this "evidence" that mileslong54 claims, too.

AND THEN, I will show the evidence OF the upper level aeronautical route structure, in the USA, Canada, Mexico, Latin America, Europe....etc. The routes are everywhere. MORE, of course, where there is more need because of the air traffic concentration.

Professional pilots the world over LAUGH at this "chemtrail conspiracy"!!


I see that AllSeeingI also chimed in with his many-times-debunked-by-me post, from elsewhere. Standard scripted post, and has been torn apart multiple time already....sorry, ASI.

Although, I DO applaud you for the statement regarding commercial passenger jets NOT being "involved" in any way. THAT, at least, is true and agreed upon.

Rest of it?? Your biggest problem is it is all speculation, and no proof. You suggest it is being the result of the fleet of military KC-135s (and, let's toss in the KC-10s, too.....I'm that generous) is bogus. It displays a total lack of comprehension regarding the missions of those airplanes, where they are currently deployed, their rotation from being airworthy and active, to being down for regular maintenance, and the very lack of sufficient numbers of pilots!! (Pilots are all pretty much involved elsewhere, too. It's known as the "Middle East").

The airplanes, pilots and ground crews that support them are pretty much engaged in other activities. (see above).

People generally have absolutely no concept of the reality of how these tanker fleets are operated, and the logistics involved. And, in any case.....the ground activities? Where are they? Why has no one seen, nor heard even a peep?

Can you "chemtrail" believers really sit there, and tell us that you believe every '*grunt*' ground worker, in any military service, will keep their mouths shut? You don't think they all talk, go out, get drunk on leave? And blab?? I mean....they have access to the Internet, too. They can read all this "chemtrail" nosense. They aren't stupid.

Do you think these folks are that "loyal" that, if it were true, and they were part of it, that it wouldn't ALSO affect their families? And, they'd be "OK" with it???

If so, then you may wish to examine the delusional bias that fuels the "chemtrail" hoax.

Originally posted by AllSeeingI

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by mileslong54

 

Those are from here and they are not proof of chemtails. They are patents and things about geo engineering. Things that are proposed and not yet implemented. Or is it your assertion that someone has been fighting global warming since 1997?

This is a huge fallacy which chemtrail debunkers use. There is a patent but it is not yet implemented.

How the heck would you know for a fact that it is not implemented? Are you omnipotent?

edit on (1/19/11) by AllSeeingI because: typo

There's more than a patent. If you do a search for stratospheric aerosol spraying, and also for geoengineering, there's tons of hard scientific information on these projects. TPTB are denying that these projects are already being implemented, but they are.

reply to post by mileslong54


How does looking help you believe in "chemtrails"? I have watched the sky for most of my life (almost 50), and saw contrails when I was still in 1st grade. My dad commuted by air twice a week. I had a cause to look and observe.
Is it because it persists? But what of clouds? Clouds are water and dirty air, just like a contrail. Clouds do not dissipate in 20 minutes, they can last for hours and drift for miles. If a cloud can than a contrail can. The only place to "learn" this persistent persistence myth is "chemtrail" sites. Everyone else knows about clouds.

Is it because there are more contrails now then there was in the past? Cause and effect. There are more planes, flying more people, more miles, to more places now than even 10 years ago.

As they are considered to be "chem", how can you distingush between a contrail or a "chemtrail" using just your eyes? The rest of the world knows that would take a spectrometer, and I don't believe you come equipped with one.
Anytime people say "Just look up", I know they haven't even looked a book or website to find out enough about the atmosphere to tell a lightning bolt from a lit fart. It's a completely nonsensical and foolish statement to make about something that etherial that far away from you.

Originally posted by wcitizen
The metallic elements ARE what they spray in an alleged attempt to combat global warming/for weather modification. So this seemingly disparate information actually isn't disparate at all. Apparently, fungus spores play some role in this kind of spraying, so may be included in with the metals.

are you saying you know what is being sprayed? How did you get this information? If it's true, it should be incredibly simple to find. Call Alex Jones. Ask him to invest in the plane to test this theory. Fly it up in a trail and take a sample at altitude. They have planes that do this and are made for this. Have an impartial credible news person on the plane and follow a chain of custody of the sample. Blow the lid off of this thing.

There have also been many reports of disease causing agents being sprayed, and nano-fibres, etc. Things such as blood cells, nano-fibres, amongst other things. The Cabal seems to intend a population cull, to reduce the population by billions. This could be part of that project.

If this was true, it would be all the proof needed to make this more than a myth.

You might want to read what an 'insider' says, on www.holmestead.ca...
There's lots of other chemtrail information on the site.

Basically, the chemtrail situation is complex and everyone has to do their own research to understand those complexities. Unless you do that you will see discrepancies where there are none. That's not to say that there aren't some discrepancies, but not as many as suggested in the OP.

You cannot agree on what is or isn't a chemtrail. how much bigger does the discrepancy have to be?

reply to post by ~Lucidity


There is a big distinction between the two conspiracies. The "chemtrail" theory is entirely emperical. It is something that could and should be easily measured. There is either a "chem" involved or there isn't. In order to prove there is a "chem" involved, a test would have to be done to a trail itself. "Chemtrail" tests I have seen have all been done at or near ground level, with no use of a control to exclude all other ground level sources of the disputed elements. Without this exclusion, anything but a test on a trail is meaningless.

reply to post by wcitizen


That "insider" is bogus:

You might want to read what an 'insider' says, on www.holmestead.ca...

All as part of perpetuating this hoax.