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Jared Lee Loughner is INNOCENT!!

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posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 08:47 PM
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Originally posted by Shamanistical

Originally posted by SocratesPupil
Very odd that the story is that he went to try and join the armed forces to serve his country and was rejected from what appears to be minimal criminal offenses.

That right there should have been enough proof to have this guy locked up for being too stupid to be allowed to roam the planet Earth freely. I mean, who in their right mind would show up for a physical that you would want to pass where you just know they are going to drug test you with drugs in your system? LOL, what a total bonehead. Boneheads and idiots should be locked away for their protection and ours. In fact, if we lock up all the stupid people, we could dispense with all of those laws meant to protect us from stupid people (i.e. handgun ownership wouldn't be a problem, etc.).


There would be so few people left walking the streets that the economy would fail.




posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 09:05 PM
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reply to post by Shamanistical
 

according to Time, the drug test was clear though JLL admitted to using cannabis frequently hence rejection from army.

The fact that JLL and many many people are disillusioned with / angry at political corruption is a definite sign of the times and I would say in a lot of ways valid.

Committing an act of atrocity wasn't a good way of dealing with such issues. This brings to light possible instabilities of mind / and or if there were other influences / controlling persons or factors.

How JLL dealt with it is under scrutiny and how the media and government react to and deal with such precarious times is also under scrutiny.

When the going gets tough there are bound to be increased tensions, governments have a duty to the population and the correct course of action.



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 09:11 PM
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Originally posted by Shamanistical

Originally posted by SocratesPupil
Very odd that the story is that he went to try and join the armed forces to serve his country and was rejected from what appears to be minimal criminal offenses.


Boneheads and idiots should be locked away for their protection and ours. In fact, if we lock up all the stupid people, we could dispense with all of those laws meant to protect us from stupid people


Maybe you should be the one to let the junkies and mentally disabled people know they are going to jail huh... Why not add seniors to it as well because you're probably afraid of them too when you're behind the wheel.

What we are talking about is all the people who don't go into the armed forces with a habit and end up with one as well. Just look at the labels such as soldiers disease(symptoms associated with morphine use) and gulf war syndrome.So I guess the people who developed this stuff as a result of what the military subjected them to should be thrown in jail too right.



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 09:28 PM
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Originally posted by Lovinlife
I think it's hilarious how people can have zero confidence in the testimony and the eye witness accounts of people,


Very few if any may actually question the violent scene these people witnessed. The purpose being that most people will latch onto the hard evidence such as forensics and witnesses and that will be enough to condemn JLL. And alot of people will swallow the hook line and sinker on inconsistencies with religion as well. Or refuse to accept facts about where we really came from. The education system has failed to create people who actually think(just look at the numbers, or are they lying too).

Would most people really prefer to just execute this crazy, flag burning, mentally unstable, reclusive, atheists in an act of pure revenge. Doesn't seem that righteous....



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 09:33 PM
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Originally posted by muzzleflash
Until Proven Guilty!
I was not there, so I cannot possibly know.


Doesn't this statement apply to nearly every event that has ever happened in the whole universe?



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 09:37 PM
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In a court of law, you are innocent until proven guilty.

However, silly threads like this is what gives serious thoughts about real conspiracies a bad name.

He was there, he had the gun, a woman took the extra magazine from him before he could reload...for gods sake.is he crazy? Probably, but maybe not in the legal sense where you have to know the differenvce between right and wrong.

He is a pathetic creature and if anyone should be accountable for his deterioration it should be the people he lived with who had to see it (a satanic alter in his back yard is one clue)

I hope ATS will once again attract serious people to contribute and find a way to weed out the "fringe"

Just my opinion...I'm outta here



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 09:38 PM
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Originally posted by SocratesPupil
reply to post by Lovinlife
 


The president asks people to call upon there humility and to empathize, some people do that by accusing concerned citizens of using such behavior as a mental invalid like JLL.

Listen, if Obama hadn't made such a circus out of this in response to media activation. I wouldn't be here with something to say about it, so thank them.


Obama didn't make this a circus, Jared did when he tried to assassinate a congresswoman, not to mention the 6 murders. What would any President do in response to an attempt on the life of any person elected to congress? Do you honestly think the President wouldn't have done something similar if it was a Republican? Okay, yes, it's politics, but making a speech about the situation is also the right thing to do, and any president would have done the same.

Kudos to you Socrates' Pupil (yeah, there (not their) should be an apostrophe at the end) for pointing out the fact that the only reason that this is a circus is because of Obama's response to the media. It has nothing to do with the 6 murders that took place while a congresswoman attempted to reach her constituents with her message. It's truly an inhuman reaction, and thank heavens (not obama or the media) for you to point it out to us all.



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 09:47 PM
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Originally posted by SocratesPupil

Originally posted by Lovinlife
I think it's hilarious how people can have zero confidence in the testimony and the eye witness accounts of people,


Very few if any may actually question the violent scene these people witnessed. The purpose being that most people will latch onto the hard evidence such as forensics and witnesses and that will be enough to condemn JLL. And alot of people will swallow the hook line and sinker on inconsistencies with religion as well. Or refuse to accept facts about where we really came from. The education system has failed to create people who actually think(just look at the numbers, or are they lying too).

Would most people really prefer to just execute this crazy, flag burning, mentally unstable, reclusive, atheists in an act of pure revenge. Doesn't seem that righteous....


You're right, it's hard to question accounts of the numerous (3-4) people who tackled and subdued Jared. It's hard to discount and question the dozens of witnesses who saw jared point the weapon and fire into the Giffords head. I'm sorry, maybe I'm naive to the power of government and media mind control programs, or maybe I'm just not paranoid enought to believe that these people can see, think and interpret situations for themselves. I guess my glass is half full perspective on life is giving me a false sense of happiness and optimism on life and humanity....
edit on 13-1-2011 by Lovinlife because: And, oh by the way, I never said execute these people without a trial. However, it's entirely reasonable to believe Jared is guilty.



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 09:51 PM
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The back story should prove interesting.



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 09:56 PM
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reply to post by Lovinlife
 


Like I said, I didn't even know about this tragedy until the President invaded my living room by taking over the media. And his message was mostly biblical which I'm sure you liked("thank heavens"). Maybe I've just never seen him use such evangelism. And it would seem that he did it at a point in which his public opinion was in the crapper.

Several mentions of congress and constituents.... I guess the people who die violently in my neighborhood just aren't as important as these bureaucrats.



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 09:59 PM
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I think anyone defending this lunatic is also a lunatic.



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 09:59 PM
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Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by Lovinlife
 


Yep.. I was blown away when I saw that there were 40 flags.
Now look at it. It is by definition a troll thread too because it baits you in with a misleading partial headline.


yes, muzzelflash=capt. obvious,

what kills me is everyone posting, giving this thread legs.

including me, unfortunately.

it should have ended with 1 reply, such as, DUHHHHHHHHH!

the one person i think has culpability is the sheriff.

no uniforms there? not even a black and white? a congresswomen and fed judge on the scene?!! WTG! dupnik!

and all this "he is nuts" thing is to make a case for insanity. which will never happen.

we are the court of public opinion. i guess some people would rather we have a black-out of these kinds of things in order not to taint the jury.

defense moves to change of venue and recuse fed judges from Arizona.

and hope for a life sentence.

all the while we pay for this whack job and families are left devastated.

dead meat in general population for killing the poor girl.

my heart goes out to all the families.



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 10:04 PM
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Originally posted by SocratesPupil
reply to post by Lovinlife
 


Like I said, I didn't even know about this tragedy until the President invaded my living room by taking over the media. And his message was mostly biblical which I'm sure you liked("thank heavens"). Maybe I've just never seen him use such evangelism. And it would seem that he did it at a point in which his public opinion was in the crapper.

Several mentions of congress and constituents.... I guess the people who die violently in my neighborhood just aren't as important as these bureaucrats.


You're right, they're not as important. Their impact on other peoples' lives (freedoms, ways of life, expenses/finances) have no where near the impact as the congresswoman's. You haven't heard of this event until the President's speech? Then I have to question how in touch you are with current affairs as a whole. "Thank Heavens," as an implication to my spirituality? Just to clarify, I was just using it as a figure of speech, I'm not religious at all. I also used "thank the stars," earlier in the thread. Way to bring that into the argument. My (non) beliefs have no impact on my ability to rationalize situations as I see and experience them...



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 10:22 PM
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Originally posted by theabsolutetruth
according to Time, the drug test was clear though JLL admitted to using cannabis frequently hence rejection from army.

Well, lol, that's even more stupid. They didn't reject him because he had smoked the stuff before, they rejected him for being too stupid to answer the question correctly, lol. That's how a lot of people mess up their lives, by not knowing how to correctly answer a simple question. Gawd, I'd probably be destitute by now if I hadn't learned how to answer questions correctly by the time I had turned two years old, ha.



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 10:40 PM
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Originally posted by Lovinlife

Originally posted by SocratesPupil
reply to post by Lovinlife
 


You're right, they're not as important. Their impact on other peoples' lives (freedoms, ways of life, expenses/finances) have no where near the impact as the congresswoman's..


Wow, you must know alot of people. Just look at the impact on other peoples lives that this madman has caused. Is he as important as the congresswoman as well. For all you know this congresswoman could have eventually been responsible for legalizing something that was not in the communities best interest, but rather the interests of some corporation that backs her financially or some bs lobbyists. JLL took away these peoples freedoms by taking there lives, changed the ways of life for the families and likely the community, and created the opportunity for the media to exploit economically.

I am not defending JLL. Rather I am questioning the way that he went undiagnosed despite so many red flags and his interaction with military recruiters. Add a satanic alter and a flag burning video with some social awkwardness and a side of reclusive nature and what do you get? A guy that hardly anyone will miss and the media will have a blast with. If a person had evil in there heart and was a social elitists with the ability and means to carry this out, they really couldn't plan it better.

I don't think all the facts about JLL will see the light of day because of the gravity that the media as well as the president has attached to it. I think that with a more people oriented system this could have been avoided and JLL(who can't be far from being mentally handicapped) could have potentially contributed positively to society.

When are people going to start thinking about avoidance rather than response.



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 10:46 PM
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Originally posted by Shamanistical

Originally posted by theabsolutetruth
according to Time, the drug test was clear though JLL admitted to using cannabis frequently hence rejection from army.

They didn't reject him because he had smoked the stuff before, they rejected him for being too stupid to answer the question correctly, lol. That's how a lot of people mess up their lives, by not knowing how to correctly answer a simple question.


It appears that the right answer to you would be a lie. Why not put value in the fact that he is willing to answer honestly instead of lie. Look at the commitment that he was willing to accept if given the chance.

This could have been the best turning point in his life, but uncle sam evidently classified him a lost cause before he did so himself.



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 10:47 PM
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Okay debating the finer points of this is getting absurd.

Just because he has not been found "guilty beyond a reasonable doubt" yet does NOT mean the evidence against him thus far released to the public is faulty. What has been released so far overwhelmingly points to the fact that he did do it.
One of the touchy subjects everyone seems to forget is that one of the elements to the crime of murder is a culpable mental state, usually intentionally or knowingly causing someones death without a defense to prosecution for doing so. The fact that he clearly may have had some serious mental issues might make this trial interesting if he pleads insanity, however the notes left might prove premeditation, and the plea based on the mental state hinges on the fact that he had to be mentally impaired enough to not understand right from wrong.
Being intoxicated, or being a habitual user of intoxicants is never a defense.
The reason the Army, his college and others are being coy about what they may know about his mental state, drug history, etc, is because federal law requires them to be. The reason the information is splotchy in the media is because they technically weren't supposed to have any of it. The only people who can authorize its release are the grand jury members with jurisdiction over aspects of the case, through a confidential grand jury subpoena, which will remain confidential except to investigators, until the public phases of his trial. His "friends" tweeting things aren't held to these laws, but they probably don't know as much.
Like the president said, everyone needs to take a deep breath and calm down.
comm
edit on 13-1-2011 by commdogg because: "deleted sentance fragment"



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 10:50 PM
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Originally posted by WhiteDevil013

Originally posted by drew1749
Honestly, they have him on charges that he doesn't need a trial for.

Attacking someone from Congress is a huge crime...not to mention the other people who died.

A judge and a kid to name just a few...this isn't some game that we can play the blame game with.

Terrorists shouldn't get trials IMHO.

But that's just my opinion, I'm sure you guys have a different one...and that's all good.


I kind of agree. Even though its completely un american and all......

When I let my emotions get the best of me, I like to think how it would be so much more efficient to just put him on a wall, and let the victims, or their families, (the parents of the little girl) come unload a 30 round clip on his face.

Note: Im not sadistic, nor do I fantasize about violent acts towards any innocent living thing, nor do I think an eye for an eye gives anyone the right to shoot someone.
edit on 13-1-2011 by WhiteDevil013 because: (no reason given)


I'm sorry, but this isn't something I have ever encountered in my life on boards, or in news paper opinions. These are definitely not the opinions of citizens. As for your push to eliminate DUE PROCESS. NADA!

Not going to happen. So if there are any wanna be elites reading this, crawl back under your gnostic luciferean rocks cause you aint winning. No plots against the people shall prevail!





edit on 13-1-2011 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 10:57 PM
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Originally posted by SocratesPupil

Originally posted by Lovinlife

Originally posted by SocratesPupil
reply to post by Lovinlife
 


Is he as important as the congresswoman as well. For all you know this congresswoman could have eventually been responsible for legalizing something that was not in the communities best interest, but rather the interests of some corporation that backs her financially or some bs lobbyists. JLL took away these peoples freedoms by taking there lives, changed the ways of life for the families and likely the community, and created the opportunity for the media to exploit economically.

I am not defending JLL. Rather I am questioning the way that he went undiagnosed despite so many red flags and his interaction with military recruiters. Add a satanic alter and a flag burning video with some social awkwardness and a side of reclusive nature and what do you get? A guy that hardly anyone will miss and the media will have a blast with. If a person had evil in there heart and was a social elitists with the ability and means to carry this out, they really couldn't plan it better.

I don't think all the facts about JLL will see the light of day because of the gravity that the media as well as the president has attached to it. I think that with a more people oriented system this could have been avoided and JLL(who can't be far from being mentally handicapped) could have potentially contributed positively to society.

When are people going to start thinking about avoidance rather than response.


Uh, you just defended him. And yes, he is as important now, but not legitimately. The day he is elected, publically and according to law then he will achieve that legitimacy. Until then, I think it's logical to say that because the Congresswoman was legitimately elected (maybe you'll say we don't know the definition of "legitimate," because of your paranoia, which I won't argue with), then her impact was less likely to be negative (just going on my optimistic instinct here, sorry).

So you think it's up to the military recruiters to flag this individual for mental instability then. Well, the U.S. government is sorry it doesn't have that level of connectivity and communication down pact yet. I'm sure that as soon as it does, then you'll decry it as an impingement on your freedoms, and I'd likely agree with you.

I don't think that I've implied in any way that I know a lot of people, though according to my own take on that phrase, I feel that I do. That being said, your "what if" scenario could be applied to any and all circumstances involving any and all people, it's an invalid argument. Was there any indication that she was about to "legalize" something that would have a negative affect? You should probably do some research before making assumptions. At least my assumptions are based on the eye witness accounts of dozens of people...

The bottom line to my argument is that to believe that JLL is guilty is not an unreasonable belief, and my argument is not invalid...



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 10:59 PM
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reply to post by Unity_99
 


Great Post! But, political knee jerk reactions, name calling, and unfurling the big stick is how Americans get stuff done. Somewhere in the bowels of some shadowy government building someone is probably installing a big red button labeled "lone gunman". Why wait for justice if we can just blow something up?
Remember is was Sarah Palin's fault even though she was 4,000 miles away at the time. Dang I love sarcasm.
Btw I would give you a star if I knew how.
Comm



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