Jared Lee Loughner is INNOCENT!!

Originally posted by angelwrangler
Loughner is innocent until proven guilty. The psychological issues at play will not permit an insanity plea. Judy Clarke is the best of the best, hence, no death penalty. Loughner will go to jail for the rest of his life and that is the price he will pay for his part in this tragedy. We will pay for his care for the rest of his life and that is the price we will pay for our part in this tragedy.

We must care for the people around us, in our communities. If Loughner had been taken in for full life proper mental health care, it would have cost approximately 30% more than his incarceration in jail. Small price to pay to save six lives and 13 wounded and traumatized people and their health care for the rest of their lives, not to mention the families of the deceased victims.

i understand where you are coming from, and thats why i banged u a star on there, but tbh the money that it takes to care for this guy, would have been spent on more missiles, tanks or if your british a birdhouse that floats on water in your moat,, i think your right all in all, the money spent on this crazed kid if he is found to be guilty or innocent could have fed the homeless people in Arizona for a week probably!!!

Seriously, this whole tv charade couldn't have looked more fake and contrived if it was a Hollywood movie and the whole time I kept thinking OMG this looks like acting and not very convincing acting at that. The overall effect was something akin to watching in real time absolute proof of an entire nation and world being politically duped by their supposed leaders.

It is totally understandable how the rest of the world is interpreting this globally televised event. Since Obama was put there as a pawn to begin with, we have had controversy after controversy. From bail outs to real estate market crashes and oil spills to health care divisions. Like I said he was a pawn to begin with because this was all established for him to inherit. So to the rest of the world he has lost the good graces of the majority of America.

This situation has created an opportunity to close that gap and his people won't let him miss it. It lacked sincerity with the grandstanding heros and thats not even the worse part. The image that comes to mind is a preacher from the pulpit. I counted 18 references to God, church, prayer, mass, heaven, all the way to the book of Job(someone remind me of that story about a gambling match between God and the devil over that poor soul). Since Reagan we have had evangelist after evangelist using religion as the backbone of their public opinion and thats where the accountability issue comes into play. Separation of church and state and a certain level of objectivity.

This investigation needs to be thorough if the question of integrity is even suspect and I believe it to be based on the caliber of events to this point. As well as the involved parties social level. These characteristics accompanied by the rather unusual history that I have gathered about JLL, it raises questions about whether or not he actually was not accepted to the services. His mind seems to be nearly non functional without some sort of help.

reply to post by muzzleflash


This thread is disturbing to me. I hope you are just trying to gather *, otherwise I fear for your sanity.

JLL answered "yes" when asked by the judge if he understood the charges against him. And then remained silent. Is that the behaviour for someone wrongly accused of a mass killing? I'd be shouting "innocent" at the top of my lungs.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
Until Proven Guilty!


There is no proof that he did it. Everyone merely says he did. There is no video evidence for me to review, nothing. I have zero evidence therefore I cannot say JLL is guilty of this crime. I was not there, so I cannot possibly know.

You're right on one point: There is no video evidence for you to review.

But so what? You're not involved in the case. And also, you have know way of knowing if there is video evidence or not.

There is plenty of evidence, forensic and otherwise. You just can't see it because you have your blinders on.

Most of you have FORGOT what AMERICA is really about!
Innocent Until Proven Guilty!
You have Forgotten what a FAIR TRIAL is!!
Not I.

Get off that shtick, will you? Everybody knows of the presumption of innocence. Stop making yourself out to be some sort of maven, as if we're all forgetting his current status of innocent. We're past that, and discussing the details of the case. You have fallen behind because you yearn for exculpatory evidence to come forth. It's not there, he's a freak that should be executed and I wish it were me doing the injections.

Innocent Until Proven Guilty!

That's true. From what I see, he did it. But we should wait for the trial to use the word guilty. I also have a problem with the anti gun crowd. The gun was just a tool used to kill innocent people. If he used a hammer, would there have been an anti hammer lobby?

Originally posted by Ravencraft
Innocent Until Proven Guilty!

That's true. From what I see, he did it. But we should wait for the trial to use the word guilty. I also have a problem with the anti gun crowd. The gun was just a tool used to kill innocent people. If he used a hammer, would there have been an anti hammer lobby?

How many people could he have killed with a hammer in that short time ... Guns exist for only one reason.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
Until Proven Guilty!

Just because the Public and Media jump the gun and automatically assume this guy is guilty does NOT mean he is!

There is no proof that he did it. Everyone merely says he did. There is no video evidence for me to review, nothing. I have zero evidence therefore I cannot say JLL is guilty of this crime. I was not there, so I cannot possibly know.

Most of you have FORGOT what AMERICA is really about!
Innocent Until Proven Guilty!
You have Forgotten what a FAIR TRIAL is!!
Not I.

If I were on His Jury, I will write down NOT GUILTY unless HARD EVIDENCE can be supplied that proves he is guilty. DNA evidence, fingerprints, or a non-coerced admission of guilt would all be sufficient evidence of guilt. I would then change my vote to GUILTY.

So PROVE HES GUILTY.

Stop making baseless accusations without proof against a human being for capital crimes. (Just because it's in fashion doesn't make it right).

This is NOT TROLLING.
I am presenting the LEGAL TRUTH to you folks.
But you are probably so engulfed in the tragedy the media has embedded into your heads to remember what our nation was founded on! Innocent before proven Guilty!

Don't let the Psychological Warfare from the Mainstream Media mesmerize you with emotions and hate. Be calm and think critically, please.

Absolutely right,, and also, since I have no proof or video tape that the Govt is doing anything wrong, they are innocent until proven innocent also?
I guess I should just assume that dead bodies and witnesses that saw the shooter fire the gun is not really enough to go on these days. But hey, ya never know. I have been wrong before.

reply to post by AllIsOne


Not saying he didn't pull the trigger, i think that is understood. Forensics and such is useless in this type of case. I was not even aware that this took place until the president took over the media to tell me about it.

Rich aristocrats don't think like checkers they think like chess. Add a couple of emotional conviction factors such as a child and the significance of her birthday and her fathers references to 9/11 and what do you get? The same recipe that worked before where factors get swept under the floor as terrorists acts. Questions didn't get answered then and they won't now either. The families of those innocent people deserve more than that.

The media frenzy will prevent a fair trial and I believe that the president has gone to far using this event and a religious approach to further his political agenda.

Very odd that the story is that he went to try and join the armed forces to serve his country and was rejected from what appears to be minimal criminal offenses. After uncle sam shut the door in his face, this man may have made a grave mistake. The victims deserve to have people know the truth.

Originally posted by theabsolutetruth

Seriously, this whole tv charade couldn't have looked more fake and contrived if it was a Hollywood movie and the whole time I kept thinking OMG this looks like acting and not very convincing acting at that. The overall effect was something akin to watching in real time absolute proof of an entire nation and world being politically duped by their supposed leaders.

You think this is bad? Just wait until the legislature starts debating Obamacare again. It will be touted as the single biggest thing that saved Gabby Gifffords. And voting against it would condemn people like Gabby to a painful death, since the insurance co's will deny her claim for care.:shk: Obama will jump right on that wagon...

Already, Bernie Sanders, I-VT has used the tragedy in a fundraising letter.:shk: "He needs money NOW to fight those crazy right-wing reactionaries! Blah blah blah.

Get your barf bag out...

reply to post by SocratesPupil


and where does that place those that dare to question their local politician / government / politics in general....potential terrorists? / crazed psychos?

Hopefully, people will see through any government spin to the real nature of the reason this thing happened.

Major psychological propaganda is something governments have been known to utilise as forms of control.

How many citizens of anywhere feel truly free to think with their own minds and seek truth whilst under the constant umbrella of media saturation giving subliminal messages on how to think, act, react and which products, people, political structure and food chain to trust / believe.

Originally posted by mishigas

Originally posted by theabsolutetruth

Seriously, this whole tv charade couldn't have looked more fake and contrived if it was a Hollywood movie and the whole time I kept thinking OMG this looks like acting and not very convincing acting at that. The overall effect was something akin to watching in real time absolute proof of an entire nation and world being politically duped by their supposed leaders.

You think this is bad? Just wait until the legislature starts debating Obamacare again. It will be touted as the single biggest thing that saved Gabby Gifffords. And voting against it would condemn people like Gabby to a painful death, since the insurance co's will deny her claim for care.:shk: Obama will jump right on that wagon...

Already, Bernie Sanders, I-VT has used the tragedy in a fundraising letter.:shk: "He needs money NOW to fight those crazy right-wing reactionaries! Blah blah blah.

Get your barf bag out...

edit on 13-1-2011 by mishigas because: call bernie a socialist

uhuuuh....it's all reactionary psychology en masse.

The people who have starred, flagged and supported the OP of this thread are as sane as Jared Loughner...

reply to post by theabsolutetruth


The point is that no jury from here to hell would acquit JLL anyways. It shouldn't actually even take that before people start to realize how we are being manipulated by the media and political officials. The powers that be will not allow people that go to pick up there meds from the store to abuse with gov consent and a guy who chooses illegal drugs as a substitute the same opportunities. This guy had a problem that went ignored time and again.Self medicating kept him from supposed military entry.

Why are people saying that this couldn't be avoided if he was in fact rejected from the services. People with this much anger need to have the discipline to channel it and he was refused that opportunity. Just get the guy some help, and not because of how important the people were he killed.

The OP is confusing things. We are not the jury. We are not those that decide if and what his punishment would be. Innocent until proven guilty is about the legal system, not public opinion.

The public and those of us here can say that the evidence we know about so far is enough for us to say he is guilty in our OPINIONS. The legal system has a presumption of innocence, both in terms of is he did this and if so what was his state of mind and motivation.

No one has any right to being considered innocent in the court of public opinion. With the evidence that has been released, to me it is beyond reasonable doubt that he is GUILTY in my opinion. But he is entitled his day in court and a defense. But do not confuse the presumption of innocence in the legal system with that of public opinion. Not even close to the same thing.

reply to post by Lovinlife


Yep.. I was blown away when I saw that there were 40 flags.
Now look at it. It is by definition a troll thread too because it baits you in with a misleading partial headline.

Originally posted by SocratesPupil
Very odd that the story is that he went to try and join the armed forces to serve his country and was rejected from what appears to be minimal criminal offenses.

That right there should have been enough proof to have this guy locked up for being too stupid to be allowed to roam the planet Earth freely. I mean, who in their right mind would show up for a physical that you would want to pass where you just know they are going to drug test you with drugs in your system? LOL, what a total bonehead. Boneheads and idiots should be locked away for their protection and ours. In fact, if we lock up all the stupid people, we could dispense with all of those laws meant to protect us from stupid people (i.e. handgun ownership wouldn't be a problem, etc.).

reply to post by Lovinlife


The president asks people to call upon there humility and to empathize, some people do that by accusing concerned citizens of using such behavior as a mental invalid like JLL.

Listen, if Obama hadn't made such a circus out of this in response to media activation. I wouldn't be here with something to say about it, so thank them.

I think it's hilarious how people can have zero confidence in the testimony and the eye witness accounts of people, but have all the confidence in the world in the ability of the government and media to brainwash and influence people. If only everyone were as smart, self assured and confident as these people. Thank the stars for these groundbreaking and independent perspectives!