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Looking for someone knowledgeable in Masonic Symbolism to look at this

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posted on Jan, 12 2011 @ 01:13 PM
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Ouch


Got some harsh feedback and some masons in the room I see. I was unaware that I had to first tell everyone a novel on why I was getting the tattoo before getting a proper response to the actual question I posted the thread for. But onword, I should have explained I guess that I don't think that the "illuminati" is really what most conspiracy theorists believe it is. People always say that the illuminati is behind everything, the 13 bloodlines! The Rothchild family! I believe what I hear most often from masons themselves that appear to be sound beings is that its merely religious and moral beliefs that stay within a group that practices them. I think I much prefer Masonry over the Roman Catholic church that would slaughter in the name of god. But who knows to each their own. The hand represents me spiritually, as well as the puppet represents me physically. And a bit of personal info that none of you probably care about are the nails on the hand as I am a nail technician.

@youthsavior
Thats pretty impressive, you can read and write cuneiform?

@ Anhur:
Firstly, I am no dude, and I am surely not a man.
I actually didn't think this was a picture that brought dread at all... I thought it was kind of serene. The moon, the sun, the stars, the olive branch I'm asuming represents earth and hope...

@ everyone who spoke of the checkered floor and the two pillars I've heard briefly of this the pillars both have names, in which I cannot remember at this point I heard about it too long ago. But yes I also knew they were represented as the moon and sun, but I guess I overlooked that... as I said in first post.

@ network dude
"The upper symbolism is very masonic. Each symbol has a meaning. They are pretty much of no use to a non mason..."
But wasn't it why I made the post in the first place, and if I believe I'm speaking to the right person I think you've said on another thread that everything you learn in masonry can be looked up online, things that people used to go to libraries to read are now in form online? Or something along those lines. So I would love to research if you give me a place to start..


----

Also Is it really demeaning to have a bit of masonic art tattood onto a human when it is misused even worse other places? I mean no harm to masons. Actually I showed the man two ideas that I wanted one of them was not masonic or conspiracy at all but something small, and then this one I've shown you all and he said he'd prefer tattooing that and then disclosed to me he was a mason.. (which was purely obvious his website was full of masonic/hebrew tattoos)
edit on 12-1-2011 by WhereAreWe because: Added the last bit in

edit on 12-1-2011 by WhereAreWe because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 12 2011 @ 01:48 PM
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I don't think the tattoo idea is demeaning to yourself or to the Fraternity. I like the idea you have of a spiritual and physical metaphor behind the hand and the puppet but combining the Masonic symbols with the puppet-master image could send the wrong message even if it isn't intended to do so.

There are books on the sacred texts archive that describe all of the symbols in this image if you care to read more. The symbols to examine are the All-seeing Eye, the Square and Compass, the Sun and the Moon, the Triangle appears to be a Plumb-line, the Sheaf of Wheat, the Acacia, the Trowel, and the Setting-maul. The square and circle or geometric shapes created by the use of the S+C and carry the same meaning.



posted on Jan, 12 2011 @ 02:00 PM
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reply to post by WhereAreWe
 


Well, I think you should be able to do anything you damn well please with your own body!


I got a tattoo about 13 years ago and never have regretted it. Like yours it was deeply personal and hard to explain but it reminds me of where I've been and where I'm going.



posted on Jan, 12 2011 @ 02:05 PM
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reply to post by no1smootha
 


yea the tattoo artist told me to come in so he could redraw it to have it fitted to my arm, but I know another tattoo artist that just prints it off to the correct size, makes one of those kind of non permenant tattoos then does the real thing over it like a tracing outline. (so I thought this is odd) Maybe he wants to go over and revise some of it... or maybe he just likes doing it the old fashioned way.



posted on Jan, 12 2011 @ 03:18 PM
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The wheat at the top isn't specific to American Freemasonry but I surmise it denotes 'plenty' like Corn, for the manifold blessings of God.


Here in Florida, that's exactly what the wheat means. I remember hearing the word and thinking "corn", though, from my Sunday School days.



posted on Jan, 12 2011 @ 03:25 PM
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reply to post by WhereAreWe
 


you being female brings this in a while other direction. I would say I am a bit confused as to why Masonic symbolism would be that important to you, being that you aren't sure what most of it represents.

The square and compasses. The compass is to circumscribe and keep us within due bounds of all mankind. It reminds us that we have to answer for whatever we do, either to our own conscious or to God. The Square is to remind us to square our actions and be square in all our transactions with mankind. Always treating others as we would like to be treated. I have explained the checkered floor already. The two pillars, I gave a direction on them. If you read the whole lecture, it goes into great detail about them allegorically and physically.

The puppet. He is wearing a masonic apron. I am not sure what to think of that. I guess that would have to be your own thing. You being a woman, you will not be able to be a mason, so ignore that part of my first post. The stars (constellation) and the wheat have deeper meanings, but you kind of have to get into more learning than can be done here.

If I was to see a woman with this tattoo, I would be confused. It would definitely be a conversation starter. Forever is a mighty long time.



posted on Jan, 12 2011 @ 03:44 PM
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reply to post by network dude
 


It is true that she wouldn't be able to be a member of "Regular" or mainstream Freemasonry, but she could still become a member of a Co-Masonic order such as Le Droit Humain or another branch of mixed Freemasonry.



posted on Jan, 12 2011 @ 04:40 PM
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The real image is that without the hand and puppet. You can clearly see that the hand and puppet were not a part of the original design.



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 05:49 AM
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The 5 pieces of corn will probably be tied to the 4 elements of earth, air, water, fire, with the 5th being spirit. That'll also extend downwards to the man on strings. If you see the 5 pieces they reach down to the hand, which connects to the fingers and thumb, then string, then arms, legs and head. And you'll also have the head/spirit/middle bit of corn/G for God. It'll probably all combine to mean as above, so below, basically.

Saying all that though....am still not sure exactly why it's corn! Seems a bit weird. Maybe partly connected to the Human naturally growing. First puppet, then the path through Masonry in the center, then reaching God.
edit on 13-1-2011 by JoseChung because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 06:47 AM
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Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by WhereAreWe
 


you being female brings this in a while other direction. I would say I am a bit confused as to why Masonic symbolism would be that important to you, being that you aren't sure what most of it represents.


But then you contridict yourself.



The square and compasses. The compass is to circumscribe and keep us within due bounds of all mankind. It reminds us that we have to answer for whatever we do, either to our own conscious or to God. The Square is to remind us to square our actions and be square in all our transactions with mankind. Always treating others as we would like to be treated. I have explained the checkered floor already. The two pillars, I gave a direction on them. If you read the whole lecture, it goes into great detail about them allegorically and physically.


Then you go on about mandkind and morals, are women not a part of mankind? Women do not have morals? Sorry, I was just a bit bruised from that. Just because I'm not a mason doesn't mean I don't share similar beliefs. To me this is like getting a tattoo of a collage of religious symbols, just because I am not of that religion doesn't mean I can't believe in its morals and belief system. The hand and puppet is completely seperate of the tattoo and yet all together the same meaning. As you said, "The square and compasses. The compass is to circumscribe and keep us within due bounds of all mankind. It reminds us that we have to answer for whatever we do, either to our own conscious or to God. The Square is to remind us to square our actions and be square in all our transactions with mankind. Always treating others as we would like to be treated." And this is the exact same meaning for the public to see, as the hand is me spiritualy the puppet is me physically. When someone see's this tattoo I'm sure I'll get a ruse out of them and some conversation starters, I'm not going to want to explain the detail of the masonic bit because like you say all the time, its too long and you need to learn the stories behind it before you understand it. So it would be easier explained through my puppet explaination and saying its a spiritual tattoo.
edit on 13-1-2011 by WhereAreWe because: typo



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 07:21 AM
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Originally posted by WhereAreWe
Then you go on about mandkind and morals, are women not a part of mankind? Women do not have morals? Sorry, I was just a bit bruised from that.


I think you may have taken something I said wrong. Women are just as, if not more important to the world as men. The only thing is, women cannot be part of a fraternity much the same as I cannot be part of a sorority. (But I'll make a deal with you, if you can get me into a college sorority with lots of hot women having nightly pillow fights in their skimpy underwear, I will try to change the rules about women in masonry)


Since you cannot be a mason, I explained the symbology as best I can. As others have said, a tattoo should be deeply meaningful to you or it's pointless. If you are good with your decision, then I think it's great. I would love to see a picture of the finished work. Please don't think I was trying to talk down to you. I just wanted to answer your question as best I could while giving my opinion. Good luck with your decision.



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 04:41 PM
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reply to post by WhereAreWe
 


Anything with any shape and any numbers can somehow be connected to the masons, so you really can't go wrong.
Just currious was this picture inspired by this




posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 04:48 PM
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Originally posted by Kayzar
reply to post by WhereAreWe
 


Anything with any shape and any numbers can somehow be connected to the masons, so you really can't go wrong.
Just currious was this picture inspired by this

More likely this:



posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 05:30 PM
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Actually that is the first time for me seeing those images, hand and puppet follows after that of the masonic symbols, meaning I spiritually and physically follow the path of the mason... but I'm not a mason. I guess looking at it its like being agnostic but having a tattoo of a cross or praying hands? haha But I'm very glad that I made this thread, I wanted to see peoples reaction. I wanted this tattoo but now I fear that it will come off foremost offensive I suppose as the first reaction from the masons here was disgracing their fraternity, which was not what I meant at all.. So clearly I need to put together something a bit more clear, I don't want a tattoo that only I appreciate after all.. it should be attractive to everyone, because specifically my job is very hands on with public. I wasn't planning on really rushing this process anyways..
Thank you for everyone's feedback ! Its rather clear I need to fix what I've got here a bit :]



posted on Jan, 15 2011 @ 03:57 AM
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Here is the thing....

You are appropriating symbols from a culture of which you are not a part. You may respect the Masonic fraternity, you may think the symbolism is cool. You may know Masons and believe them to be good people. But you aren't a Mason.

To a Mason, those symbols have very specific meanings. (And I would like to note that almost everyone who commented on them here who is not a Mason was entirely incorrect as to the central meanings of these symbols.)

To appropriate the symbols of another culture (and I'm treating Freemasonry as a distinct culture in this case because I think it helpful in explaining people's reactions) is always fraught with difficulty. Let's say that instead of Masonic symbolism, you decided to pick out some cool Lakota (Ikche-Wichasha) symbols. An actual member of the Lakota who practices their faith might see your tattoo and ask about it. When you were unable to give an account of why you are tattooed with a symbol that comes from their culture that made sense to them, they might see it as inappropriate or disrespectful. Now, if you paired that symbol with something that has a somewhat ambiguous overtones (like that puppet), they might even find it offensive.

As has been clearly demonstrated in this thread, even though Masonic symbolism is out there to be found and reams and reams and entire forests have died in publishing the meanings of the symbols, they are still not understood outside the Fraternity as they are understood inside the Fraternity. To illustrate that point, I will simply add that there isn't a single olive branch anywhere in the design you have chosen.

I hope I've helped you understand the reaction you got -- and, perhaps, just as importantly, helped others understand it, too. Masonic symbolism is a well-crafted, well-defined system. While it is true that it works on many levels and layers of meaning, you have to know the basics to approach the rest. I don't believe you have to be a member of the Fraternity to have that understanding (Manly P. Hall, famously, wasn't a member when he did his writing about Freemasonry) but you would have to substitute substantial scholarship to get it right if you wren't a member -- there is simply too much disinformation and wrong information out there for people to casually get it right.

Best of luck finding a tattoo that says what you would really like to say.



posted on Jan, 15 2011 @ 06:16 AM
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Exactly not verything is bout what looks cool, and altough you have your own personal meanings I'm sure, when anyone see your tattoo, they are gonna ask what it means, what it is, etc. It will never end you'll always have to explain that which you really have no understanding of, and like the post above me, someone who understands the symbolism is just going to ask you about it like everyone else, and then crticize you for not understanding properly, for example be the same if you got a hell's angel tattoo, what would they say about it?



posted on Jan, 15 2011 @ 07:20 AM
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reply to post by WhereAreWe
 
The fact is you have no business getting a tattoo of a symbol of an organization that you don't belong to! Getting one just because you think it looks cool is disrespectful, especially if it's a symbol or badge that must be earned.



posted on Feb, 5 2011 @ 12:11 AM
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I would like to add that most of the symbolism can be discussed as only the modes of recognition and the obligations and degrees are secret. The marionette or puppet with strings from a hand that is attached to all these symbols simply represents that as you learn to use the principals they represent they will influence your actions.

The sun indeed rules the day and rises in the East the seat of the Worshipful Master of the Lodge. For from the east comes the light or illumination that we spiritually seek. The all seeing eye also represents enlightenment of the mind and spirit. Wheat I too believe that represents plenty a life well spent will result in the abundance, but it does not necessarily mean monetary or possessions.

I concur that getting this tattoo and not being a freemason is rather disrespectful. I too enjoy tattoos but only get those that are relevant to me. Again the fact a masonic artist would put this on a non-mason shows he does not respect the brotherhood he claims to be part of.



posted on Feb, 5 2011 @ 09:42 PM
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Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by MSSVBSS
The moon and sun represent light and dark. In a masonic ritual there are two pillars on either side of the black and white tile floor. One represents light and one represents dark.


no, they don't.

The checkered floor represents life filled with choices and influence of good and evil.
The pillars are best explained by the 2nd degree lecture. That is one of those things I think that falls into something I shouldn't explain, but if you search for the fellowcraft degree lecture, or 2nd degree lecture, you will find what they stand for.


I'll correct both of you!

The checkered floor is representative of a Chess Board, in that Life is a Chess Game.

Furthermore, Light is not the opposite of Dark, so you got that wrong too! Light is the SOURCE, Dark & Bright are the variables!
The Moon & Sun are representative of the Alpha & Omega!


The Puppet is representative of the Illuminati pulling your strings to get you to do what they want you to do. Free Will is an Illusion!

Ribbit



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