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No more hospitals for YOU, thanks ObamaCare

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posted on Jan, 4 2011 @ 03:16 PM
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Well, here you have it. Thanks to ObamaCare, there will be NO COMPETITION against the AHA member Hospitals any longer. So, how is that corporate cronyism that you Democrats love so much?

ObamaCare sets up a coporation that will be the only one to be allowed to grow or expand. Hmmmm, what do they call that when corporations and government combine to destroy all competition?

I will let you smart people tell me what it is.

Obamacare Ends Construction of Doctor-Owned Hospitals

Hey, I bet that NO COMPETITION clause in the ObamaCare bill will bring prices down. Don't you think? Maybe one of you smart folk can explain it to me.

Another link to them evil capitalists-Physician-Owned Hospitals Fire Back at Obamacare Restrictions


On Nov. 24, U.S. District Court Judge Michael Schneider ruled Section 6001 does not violate any constitutional rights, but he also ruled the hospital and PHA were within their rights to sue in federal court. This gives the plaintiffs a leg up if a motion for appeal has to be filed, according to their attorney, Scott Oostdyk of McGuireWoods.

“We filed seeking an injunction in 2010 since the new law prevents us from expanding bed spaces and limits the growth of POHs in physical terms. The court decided it had jurisdiction in the case,” says Oostdyk. “So far this has been the only case challenging the new law.”

Another problem with the new law is that if POHs expand, they cannot accept Medicare patients—a serious barrier for new hospitals.

“About 60 percent of the billing from POHs is from Medicare, so they've cut off half of the financing and funding of this business model,” explains Oostdyk. “That competition has been curtailed, and physicians will no longer invest in this business model. If you can't build new facilities or expand old ones, there is no growth.”


Hey you smart people, can you tell me how not allowing someone to do business, is Constitutional?

I am just a dumb redneck and cannot understand the thinking of one of the black robe priests. Too simple minded I guess. I would think something like this would be allowed, you know, business.




posted on Jan, 4 2011 @ 03:23 PM
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It's about time we let ObamaCare rest within the confines of the trash bin of history. But this wish is just as much of a fantasy as abolishing the Fed and removing the Income tax.

The only legitimate hospital and medical care facilities are those run strictly by the individual doctor, cooperating doctors, medical organization, or a non-profit charity. Any other form simply monopolizes medicine, raises prices, adds bureaucracy and regulations, not to mention it removes to family and communal bond with their doctor's.

I am getting awfully tired of government coming in and ruining the communities. The only way medicine can ever truly function is if it is left simply between the doctor and his/her patient with zero influence from involuntary external sources.
edit on 1/4/2011 by Misoir because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 4 2011 @ 03:23 PM
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Oh I know..

They've talked about this since the start. It's a tyrannical monopoly. If you want to see how this will end up, dig up some horror stories about VA clinics.



posted on Jan, 4 2011 @ 03:33 PM
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Shhhhh, ObamaCare is good, do not want to upset those that think it is so.

Hmmm, who was it that said this bill had to do with control? Oh yeah, that was this guy-

Paraphrased

It will take sometime for ObamaCare to CONTROL THE PEOPLE




edit on 4-1-2011 by saltheart foamfollower because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 4 2011 @ 03:37 PM
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Originally posted by saltheart foamfollower

I am just a dumb redneck and cannot understand the thinking of one of the black robe priests.


You don't need to be a priest to understand...Doctors have an ethical obligation to reccommend the best treatment for thier patients.

Now imagine visiting your doctor and he determines you have a heart condition..a bad valve. He reccomends surgery.

Now...there are two hospitals in the area...

(A) one that is renowned for thier Cardiac Ward and heart surgeons. The best in the state.

(b) The other is trying real hard to build their Cardiac Ward to compete. They have some average surgeons, but they need more heart surgeries to build credibility and bring income to the division, get better surgeons etc.

Your doctor actually has a large financial stake in Hospital (b)...where is he going to send you?

Here is one well researched study..


Consumer not decision maker.
Economic theory requires that for effective market operations, informed consumer decision making characterize both the input and output markets. In the market for hospital care, this is not the case since physicians have a significant amount of control over the patient’s choice of hospitals. For POHs this is especially problematic since physicians have a motivation to refer patients to facilities in which they have a stake or ownership interest.

Cherry Picking
POHs treat a smaller share of Medicaid patients, or patients with high needs, but low financial resources. .... Mitchell (2005) discovered that POH were more apt to treat low severity cases and cases with lower comorbidities. In an analysis of eleven studies examining POHs, it was concluded by each of the studies that POHs “cherry-pick the most profitable patients.”

Higher Margins at POHs.
An analysis of Medicare cost reports in 2006 found that 57 percent of physician-owned facilities had margins above 9 percent. In contrast, only 17 percent of acute care general hospitals had margins greater than 9 percent (MedPac, 2005). It was found that steering patients to the higher margin hospitals resulted in higher medical costs.

Summary
This “White Paper” has compared past studies that analyzed the impact of POHs on health care costs. In general, research has concluded that the addition of POHs increases cost for patients in an area. Moreover, the addition of POHs to an area tends to undercut the economic viability of full-service community hospitals in the service area. By selecting patients with less severe illnesses, by limiting emergency room care, and by earning higher profit margins, POHs tend to increase medical costs in an area. The fundamental factor accounting for this relationship is that the decision of which medical facility to use is made, or influenced, by the physician, not the patient. Thus, physicians with a financial stake in the POH are motivated to send high profit margin patients to the POH.

economictrends.blogspot.com...


I'm sorry...was your question rhetorical? Cuz' if you wanted an answer, I just provided it in both simple terms as well as the educated research you seem to despise...take your pick



posted on Jan, 4 2011 @ 03:42 PM
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reply to post by maybereal11
 


Thanks, you put it so much better than I would have.

I would just have called it what it is, FASCISM.

But you go ahead and sugar coat it all you want.

I guess some animals are more equal than others. You folks expose yourselves more and more everyday.



posted on Jan, 4 2011 @ 03:47 PM
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reply to post by saltheart foamfollower
 


Wow.. That didn't take long.. lolol

I leave for a few months and someone passed out the purple kool-aide.. XD

Hey, poster above SHF... Don't worry.. Now, instead of all that, you're going to have a bureaucrat's secretary tell you where to have your surgery! If you're lucky, maybe said bureaucrat's drop out son will be holding the scalpel. lol



posted on Jan, 4 2011 @ 03:49 PM
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reply to post by saltheart foamfollower
 


Wow that post was a little unhinged...

I provided actual research and links and you simply screamed "facism"...and dismissed a non-partisan in depth study of the issues with Physician Owned Hospitals, a study funded by the Catholic Church, as "Sugar Coating" of the "Facism" you declared.

Just a little reality disconnect...hope you get better soon.



posted on Jan, 4 2011 @ 03:49 PM
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reply to post by maybereal11
 


Hey thanks for that, I wonder WHERE THEY GOT THEIR INFO?


Let us take a look see shall we?

American Hospital Association, “Self-referral to Physician-owned Hospitals,” April 17, 2008.

Well ain't that special, you use a study created by the American Hospital Association that is getting a legislative monopoly. WOW, you one of the politburo?


Only in a warped mind would one think that more competition breeds higher prices.

Do you really want to know where the higher prices come from, or are you just here to propagandize?

Since they do not have emergency rooms, they do not have to treat people that do not pay. This is the whole spiel. Sorry to tell you this, how bout getting rid of the problem of the people using the ER's as their personal clinic. How bout them apples?



posted on Jan, 4 2011 @ 03:52 PM
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Originally posted by maybereal11
reply to post by saltheart foamfollower
 


Wow that post was a little unhinged...

I provided actual research and links and you simply screamed "facism"...and dismissed a non-partisan in depth study of the issues with Physician Owned Hospitals, a study funded by the Catholic Church, as "Sugar Coating" of the "Facism" you declared.

Just a little reality disconnect...hope you get better soon.


You do realize that it is a government cost analysis study. A) They have a vested interest to fudge the numbers. B) Cost cutting is something I want to do on toilet paper, not healthcare C) The government has NO right to tell ANYONE that they are inefficient.

I'm telling you. If you want to know what this will look like, follow a Veteran to a clinic.



posted on Jan, 4 2011 @ 03:53 PM
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reply to post by PayMeh
 


Crazy loves company...I am sure Saltheart is releived to know he isn't the only glassy eyed, reality challenged poster that has a disdain for research or facts.

Wild...really wild. Nothing in your post has anything to do with the truth and you don't even try to pretend it does with mildly mocked-up evidence.



posted on Jan, 4 2011 @ 03:56 PM
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Originally posted by saltheart foamfollower
reply to post by maybereal11
 


Hey thanks for that, I wonder WHERE THEY GOT THEIR INFO?


Let us take a look see shall we?

American Hospital Association, “Self-referral to Physician-owned Hospitals,” April 17, 2008.


Uhhh...you left out a few of the sources...Your dishonesty would at least be amusing if you were better at it.



References
American Hospital Association, “Self-referral to Physician-owned Hospitals,” April 17, 2008.

Cram P, et al. “Cardiac Revascularization in Specialty and General Hospitals,” New England Journal of Medicine, April 7, 2005, Vol. 352(14), pp. 1454-1462.

Government Accountability Office. (April 2003). Specialty Hospitals: Information on National Market Share, Physician Ownership, and Patients Served. Washington, DC.

Greenwald, Leslie, et al. 2006. “Specialty versus Community Hospitals: Referrals, Quality, and Community Benefits,”. Health Affairs, 25(1), 106-118.

Lewin Group (2004). “TrendWatch: Impact o Limited-service Providers on Communities and Full-service Hospitals, Sept. 2004, Vol. 6(2).

McManis Consulting, 2005. “Impact of Physician-owned Limited-service Hospitals,”

MedPac. 2005. “Report to the Congress: Physician-Owned Specialty Hospitals,” Medicare Payment Advisory Commission, Washington, DC.

Mitchell, J.M. (2005). “Effects of Physician-owned Limited-service Hospitals: Evidence from the Market for Cardiac Inpatient Care in Arizona,” Health Affairs Web Exclusive, Oct. 25, 2005.

Mitchell, J.M. (2007). “Utilization Changes Following Market Entry by Physician-owned Specialty Hospitals,” Medical Care Research and Review, 64(4), 395-415.

Nallamothu, BK, et al. “Opening of Specialty Cardiac Hospitals and Use of Coronary Revascularization in Medicare Beneficiaries,” Journal of the American Medical Association, March 7, 2007, Vol. 297(9), pp. 962-968.

Office of the Inspector General, “Physician-Owed Specialty Hospitals’ Ability to Manage Medical Emergencies,” oig.hhs.gov... Department of Health and Human Services, January 2008.

Roemer, Milton. “Hospital costs relate to the supply of beds,” Modern Hospital. 1959 Apr;92(4):71-3.

TrendWatch, “Physician Ownership and Self-referral in Hospitals: Research on Negative Effects Grows,” American Hospital Association, April 2008.

Trinh, Hanh Q, Begun, James W and Luke, Roice D. “Hospital service duplication: Evidence on the medical arms race,” Health Care Management Review 33, no. 3 (Jul-Sep 2008): p. 192.

[1]An examination of spinal fusion operations at Nebraska’s other POH, the Nebraska Orthopedic Hospital, shows the same relationship as presented in Tables 1 and 2. That is, for the POH, cost- per-patient day were generally higher and the length of hospitalization was shorter than for community hospitals.

[1]The eleven studies were 1) MedPAC, 2) McManis: Black Hills, SD Case Study, 3) McManis: Lincoln, NE Case Study, 4) McManis: Oklahoma, OK Case Study, 5) McManis: Wichita, KS, Case Study, 6) TrendWatch, 7) Government Accountability Office, 8) Mitchell: Oklahoma City, 9) NEJM: Cran et al. , 10) Office of the Inspector General, 11) JAMA: Naltanothu et al.



posted on Jan, 4 2011 @ 03:58 PM
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Originally posted by saltheart foamfollower
Sorry to tell you this, how bout getting rid of the problem of the people using the ER's as their personal clinic. How bout them apples?


How about the last president suggested people do just that.
The current president was trying to make it so people did not have to.
I liked them apples just fine till Death Panel fever took hold of all the wingnuts.



posted on Jan, 4 2011 @ 04:02 PM
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Originally posted by PayMeh
I'm telling you. If you want to know what this will look like, follow a Veteran to a clinic.


Where are all the vets that boycott VA services for private hospitals?
Honest question here.



posted on Jan, 4 2011 @ 04:02 PM
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reply to post by maybereal11
 


How bout reading that last part again in your "research."

It's NOT saying that it's driving up the cost. What it's saying is that it's diminishing business from the non POH. Paraphrasing here - "Physicians have an interest to send high profit patients to the POH." Well, duh.. I don't think an ambulance driver is going to ask me which hospital I'd like to go to either. But lets say a doctor wants to send me to the POH. If I don't want to go there, that's fine! He'll send me to whichever one I choose.

See, what they are TRYING to do is learn from their mistakes with the postal service. Private companies came in and offered superior services and now the PO is running negative numbers month after month. They can't have that with HC! So what to do? You take away the better options and make everyone go to the ghetto hospitals. You really think the government is going to offer you something that is "good," with "quality service," and is "efficient?" Have you not seen the post office, DMV, court systems??????? The answer is they CAN'T provide that kind of service, and in an open market they CAN NOT compete with the private sector. They will undercut them and deliver better service every time.



posted on Jan, 4 2011 @ 04:06 PM
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reply to post by maybereal11
 


So, there was more than one reference. Your point being what? Of course the conglomerate of the American Hospital Association being placed at the highest point would mean what in your viewpoint? To me that is the one sourced the greatest.

At least that is how I write up my footnotes when doing professional papers. How bout you?



posted on Jan, 4 2011 @ 04:07 PM
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Originally posted by Sinnthia

Originally posted by PayMeh
I'm telling you. If you want to know what this will look like, follow a Veteran to a clinic.


Where are all the vets that boycott VA services for private hospitals?
Honest question here.


Oh come on.. You know as well as I do that they can't afford it. Every older Vet I know has limited income. They can barely afford the medicine the VA prescribes for them, much less go out and get a second opinion. They all complain like mad. Getting left in halls after surgery and forgotten about, taking months to get an appointment, ect.



posted on Jan, 4 2011 @ 04:10 PM
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Originally posted by PayMeh
You do realize that it is a government cost analysis study.


The first sentence of the study begins...



I was engaged by Catholic Health Initiative (CHI) beginning March 9, 2010 to examine the impact of increasing the number of physician-owned hospitals (POHs) in Nebraska. This “White Paper” represents my work to-date on this task.


Reality disconnect. Maybe read the study before starting the BS parade.

economictrends.blogspot.com...



posted on Jan, 4 2011 @ 04:13 PM
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Originally posted by PayMeh
You really think the government is going to offer you something that is "good," with "quality service," and is "efficient?"



Schooling, Libraries, Post Office ( Even though you seem to think they are horrible, I get my mail right on time every day), Justice system ( backs up with that are do to idiots with BS lawsuits... all in all a decent system)

Now the DMV, I will give you... Talk about Bureaucracy... But for the most part, there are quite a few services run by the US government that I am pleased with and feel they offer something "good".

That is my humble opinion on your particular question anyway.



posted on Jan, 4 2011 @ 04:15 PM
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Originally posted by PayMeh
Oh come on.. You know as well as I do that they can't afford it. Every older Vet I know has limited income. They can barely afford the medicine the VA prescribes for them, much less go out and get a second opinion. They all complain like mad. Getting left in halls after surgery and forgotten about, taking months to get an appointment, ect.


I asked an honest question, there was no need to just offer more opinion. Yes, I know vets complain about the VA. I also know they rate their care higher than civillians rate their fee-care. Those people complain about their care as well. Everyone complains about what they get but this is a free market, right?
Plus, I hear what you are saying all the time but only from a few specific sources and it is not vets. Then I read stuff like this.


“Winning NCQA’s seal of approval is the gold standard in the health-care industry. And who do you suppose this year’s winner is: Johns Hopkins? Mayo Clinic? Massachusetts General? Nope. In every single category, the VHA system outperforms the highest rated non-VHA hospitals.”
here

And I have quesstions. I was hoping you might do some research and provide me with a thoughtful answer.



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