No more hospitals for YOU, thanks ObamaCare

reply to post by maybereal11


I don't have to, although I did, to see that some guy who's expertize and/or motive can not be verified can come up with a dozen reports saying they drive up costs against all forms of logic. I can cherry pick a dozen reports from different sources telling you bigfoot is alive and well, but that doesn't make it any less insane of a statement.

Originally posted by PayMeh
"Physicians have an interest to send high profit patients to the POH." Well, duh.. I don't think an ambulance driver is going to ask me which hospital I'd like to go to either.

My fault for thinking I could come here and ask a question and get an answer. Clearly your reality is what you have decided it is. Why would you not think an ambulance driver is going to ask which hospital you want to go to? Why do you feel so sure in that opinion that you can jump off further from there as if it is part of your foundation for the argument? Have you checked? Have you looked into it at all? I wonder because they ALWAYS ask me which hospital I want to go to and one time I had to give them directions. I guess I should not bother looking here for anything other than what the radio told people to think. Thanks for your time.

Originally posted by PayMeh
reply to post by maybereal11

 

How bout reading that last part again in your "research."

It's NOT saying that it's driving up the cost. What it's saying is that it's diminishing business from the non POH. Paraphrasing here - "Physicians have an interest to send high profit patients to the POH." Well, duh..

Wow....OK, lets just say this...I don't want my physician to determine who/where my heart or spine is operated on based on where he will make the most money...you say "duh"...I say ef that.

Doctors make enough money just practicing...they don't need schemes like Physician Owned Hospitals or Physician owned MRI Centers etc. to make more money at expense of patients who simply want the best care and help.

I went to a Nuerologist once for a bum disk in my neck. He sent me next door for an MRI. He squinted at the MRI and then proceeded to misdiagnose me.

I found this out via a second opinion. The Doc started by telling the MRI was done on a very old and outdated machine and no doctor would be able to tell anything from it.

Why did the first doc send me to a crappy MRI place? And then pretend he could see something in the MRI?

Yep...He owned the facility next door. I googled the place and found him as owner...along with a lot of similiar complaints.

Cheap machines, easy money..bad diagnosis rather than admit his machines were cheap and crappy.

FYI - My insurance company refused to pay for the 2nd MRI on a machine that actually worked.

I paid for that out of pocket.

get it yet?

Originally posted by PayMeh
reply to post by maybereal11

 

I can cherry pick a dozen reports from different sources telling you bigfoot is alive and well, but that doesn't make it any less insane of a statement.

Yes...Yes it does.

What you are looking to do at this stage of the debate is to dismiss any actual factual research as meaningless.

Absent research and facts..that leaves the debate to what? Ranting opinion?

I know it is dissapointing, but your unsupported idealogical "opinion" is not equal to research that actually thoroughly examines an issue in an objective, exhaustive way and is published along with verifiable sources.

And no desperate attempts to beg the debate to accomodate a ranting opinion without evidence will make those things equal.

reply to post by maybereal11


Factual Research?

It's a BLOG.

Got any other "factual" research without the MAIN BENEFICIARY of the ObamaCare legislation, being the SOURCE material?

Talk about transparent, reminds me of the creation of this bill, bribes and deals made with the hospitals and big pharma.

What a joke.

Originally posted by saltheart foamfollower
reply to post by maybereal11

 

Factual Research?

It's a BLOG.

No offense, but so is the source of your OP.

Pot meet kettle.

reply to post by Misoir

I am getting awfully tired of government coming in and ruining the communities. The only way medicine can ever truly function is if it is left simply between the doctor and his/her patient with zero influence from involuntary external sources.

It is also a heck of a lot cheaper too when the doctor is not spending over half of his billable hours filling out government paperwork!

reply to post by Aggie Man


With a source of Politico and a blog from the Weekly Standard.

But point taken and bows, but not an Obama bow. Only a slight nod which is what should have been the etiquette.

reply to post by saltheart foamfollower


The funny part is that the deals with all of these companies (Pharma and insurance) happened as appeasement to get Conservatives to sign on to the bill to get it passed. You know, those folks who insist that only businesses protect us from evil.

The constant rhetoric about how this Bill will destroy the medical profession is interesting to me, as the medical industry was the ONLY winner to come out of it. A concept that began as a good thing for we, the people, ended up as nothing more than a bend over and take it mandate.

Calling it ObamaCare is such a misnomer as every single dirty politician, in Washington, from both sides of the issue, and even a few formerly semi-honest ones, can now thank big Pharma and the Insurance companies for funding their next several campaigns.

~Heff

Thanks op for more bad information that can be spinned to look like a golden ring for the sheeple.
Like i have said before if this new Obama health care is so great why did our elected leaders do everything in their power to opt out of it

Nothing more to say is there

reply to post by Hefficide


Show me the conservatives that were in those meetings behind closed doors.

Show me the conservatives that signed the bill.

The people that had to be BRIBED were Democrats sorry to REMIND YOU.

Cornhusker kickback, Louisiana Purchase, Michigan Abortion Executive Order.

Sorry, no twisting the narrative on THIS ONE. Gotcha covered on anything you attempt to sweep under the rug.

I did a lot of research on this last year. There is going to be no twisting of the facts.

edit to add-

I will QUIT calling it ObamaCare as soon as the government quits paying Google for the right to use that name to point it to their propaganda sites.

Fair enough?

reply to post by saltheart foamfollower

The Democratic Blue Dog Coalition, commonly known as the Blue Dog Democrats, is a group of United States Congressional Representatives from the Democratic Party who identify themselves as moderates."[1]

It was formed in 1995[2][3] during the 104th Congress to give more conservative members from the Democratic party a unified voice after the Democrats' loss of Congress in the U.S. Congressional election of 1994.[4] Blue Dog Coalition membership for the 112th Congress currently stands at 26 seats, down from 54 seats in the 111th Congress.

Source

Of course there are conservatives involved. Toe-may-toe / toe-mah-toe. A rose by any other name, and all that.

Democrats are not automatically liberals.

~Heff

reply to post by Hefficide


Well okay, you got me, the two or three conservatives that are Democrats.

Just because they are called Blue Dogs does not mean they are conservative.

They may be relatively speaking more conservative than other Democrats, but not many would actually define them as conservative.

Originally posted by saltheart foamfollower
reply to post by maybereal11

 

Factual Research?

It's a BLOG.

What a joke.

Thank you for at least now being amusing with your BS.

Your OP was a blog written by a PR wonk for the GOP ..Dave Schnittger...right click on the PDF of your "article, hit properties and check author.

My source was a research paper written by Ernie Goss...who would you trust to do an unbiased economic analysis of Physician Owned Hospitals....a GOP PR specialist or this guy?

Ernest Goss

Ernest Goss is currently the Jack MacAllister Chair in Regional Economics at Creighton University.

He received his Ph.D. in Economics from The University of Tennessee in 1983 and is a former faculty research fellow at NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center.

He was a visiting scholar with the Congressional Budget Office for 2003-04 and is a research fellow at the Theodore Roosevelt Institute.

He has published over eighty research studies focusing primarily on economic forecasting and on the statistical analysis of business and economic data.

His research paper entitled, "The Internet's Contribution to U.S. Productivity Growth," received the National Association of Business Economics Edmund A. Mennis Contributed Papers Award for 2001.

His book, Changing Attitudes toward Economic Reform during the Yeltsin Era was published by Praeger Press in 2003 and his book Governing Fortune: Casinos in America will be published by the University of Michigan Press in the first quarter of 2007.

He is a member of the Editorial Board of The Review of Regional Studies and editor of Economic Trends, an economics newsletter published three times per year. He is the past president of the Omaha Association of Business Economics, and President of the Nebraska Purchasing Management Association.

Goss produces a monthly business conditions index for the nine state Mid-American region and the three state Mountain region. He and Bill McQuillan, CEO of City National Bank, initiated a survey of bank CEOs in rural portions of 8 states. Results from the three surveys are cited each month in approximately 100 newspapers. Newspaper citations have included the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, Investors Business Daily, The Christian Science Monitor, Chicago Sun Times and other national and regional newspapers and magazines. Each month 75-100 radio stations carry his Regional Economic Report.

www.creighton.edu...

Thanks for at least making your BS funny for once.

reply to post by maybereal11


So what you are saying is that because the blog and Politico, state that the hospitals and clinics are no longer being built it must be not factually true?

What you brought to the table is the "reasoning" behind not letting businesses compete anymore.

What I brought to the table is the FACT that they are not being built anymore, because of the legislation.

So tell me, what were you saying again? Oh that the AHA is our buddies and giving a corporation a MONOPOLY is a GOOD THING.

Gotcha, just wanted to get your position straightened out.

I was just reading about the creation of the NHS in the UK in 1947 and it is interesting to see some of the same arguments that were made back then in opposition to public health care.
I also acknowledge that it was at a different time in history and in a very different country. I have no particular stance on what America should do as far as healthcare, it should be up to the American people to decide. I just thought the parallels were interesting.

Much as now, doctors and the government were at loggerheads.
Dr John Marks, who qualified as a doctor on the day the NHS started and went on to lead the profession's trade union, the British Medical Association, says: "Doctors were a pretty conservative bunch, certainly the older ones, and many hated the NHS.
"They saw it as the government interfering in the doctor and patient relationship, although some just opposed it outright on political grounds."

news.bbc.co.uk...

reply to post by woodwardjnr


Thanks for the historical reference.
Will do some reading on that in a bit.

When physicians own hospitals, critics say, the risk of medical judgment being influenced by the allure of making more money is too great. It gives doctors extra incentives to cherry-pick the best-insured and least-sick patients, and prescribe unnecessary procedures.

www.dallasnews.com...

I'm not a fan of obama care, think it's just a big giveaway to a healthcare system in serious need of a major overhaul. But, I don't feel like having a doctor who is gonna needlessly hospitalize me for the profits he's hoping to get either!

Originally posted by saltheart foamfollower
reply to post by maybereal11

 

What you brought to the table is the "reasoning" behind not letting businesses compete anymore.

What I brought to the table is the FACT that they are not being built anymore, because of the legislation.

What I did was answer the question that you stated in your OP..

Originally posted by saltheart foamfollower

I am just a dumb redneck and cannot understand the thinking

What you did was rant, BS and squirm becuase someone actually answered your question in a legitimate fashion with evidence, research and links to support it.

What I expect is further unsupported rhetorical tantrums...I have a 5 year old child who is able to hold to a specific issue and discuss it with more rationality than yourself.

Reality disconnect...tantrums over facts...return to reality disconnect.

Originally posted by gimme_some_truth
Schooling, Libraries, Post Office ( Even though you seem to think they are horrible, I get my mail right on time every day), Justice system ( backs up with that are do to idiots with BS lawsuits... all in all a decent system)

Really?

Schooling: America's public education system is so fantastic that year after year test scores decline while the rest of the developed world's scores increase. Further, every effort made to add accountabillity into the education system is met with vile and veneomous resistance from the teachers unions and politicians who get their bread buttered from said unions.

Libraries: Most libraries are stocked with books from donors or bought with funds from donors. The public dole is pretty much just operating expenses such as electricity and a paycheck for one or two higher level staff members with the remainder of people "working" there being largely volunteers. Any federal money used is sourced from grants and utilized under the discretion of either the city's mayor, commission, or a board of library fellows.

The Post Office: The USPS is one of the most wastefull, poorly managed quasi federal agencies in existence today. The simple fact is that the only reason they remain in business is thanks to federal protection and mandates regarding US Mail. If not for that, UPS, FedEX, and DHL would have long ago put them completely out of business AND we'd see the added benefit of a virtual elimination of junk mail.

The US Justice System is a joke and the punchline doesn't even revolve around frivolous lawsuits. We have little Napoleons sitting in their high chairs legislating from the bench. Unconstitutional, unethical, and unproductive are 3 'uns' I can associate with the judicial system right off the top of my head. Furthermore, the vast majority of them are nothing more than agenda driven puppets for the politicians that elevated them into their seats of authority in the first place.

If the feds run the hospitals, then all hope is lost and Sauron has the ring.