I spent 3 hours in the ER on the 15th. I just got my $11,000.00 bill in the mail.

Originally posted by LarryLove
And people die because they don't have insurance.

I never said that they didn't. HOWEVER, hospitals in the USA are required to accept patients even if they can't pay for them. Most of the time they have to write off the bills as money lost. Ya' forgot to mention that little diddy, didn't ya?

You haven't posted facts

Yes I did. Scroll back a few pages and read up larryboy.

there's no need to jump up and down screaming at people to agree with you.

Actually I'm mocking you and laughing at you.

Seriously, we can have a discussion without the childish behavior.

.... says the fella who said 'are you for real' and who can't be adult and admit he was wrong.

How often, in the US, do you go to see a doctor, wait for an hour or so sometimes while sick and making it worse by having to make the trip, all the time knowing what you need but that the pharmacy requires a prescription signed off by a doctor to receive the medication?

Many medicines that require prescription in the US are available over-the-counter elsewhere and a family member can go to the pharmacy to pick up a medication for you while you stay home in bed.

We need access to medications. Perhaps some should require a prescription, or not, but not all of them that are restricted in the US. We need to be educated in school about home medical care so we can take care of ourselves and save doctor visits for when they are actually necessary.

Very glad I left there.

Originally posted by LarryLove
This thread has brought up some good discussion points regarding insurance based systems and nationalised ones. There are serious problems with both and the OP's predicament highlights a serious one.

That well-known commie mouthpiece, Scientific American, posts an interesting article comparing the two systems, which ends with a quote from a researcher on the subject:

We're Number Two: Canada Has as Good or Better Health Care than the U.S. Despite spending half what the U.S. does on health care, Canada doesn't appear to be any worse at looking after the health of its citizens

"Personally...my view is that the Canadian system is good for Canada and the American system is good for America. Neither side should switch, because the systems are a function of the population—the Canadian population believes much more in maintaining social safety nets." www.scientificamerican.com...

What it all boils down to is that while our system at its worst is inferior to the US system at its best...that is the price we pay to take care of our own, and that is apparently more of a universal theme in our country than in the US.

It's a choice you make with your vote.

Originally posted by MessOnTheFED!
reply to post by endtimer

 

Health care should be free PERIOD.

MOTF!

um no. you should take care of yourself and if you cant your only option is to pay for someones SERVICE TO YOU. they didnt make you go to the hospital and have anything done to you. you did it of your own free will.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Where are your sources (please no Heritage Foundation sources ) on the Canadian system being messed up? It is not perfect, but not one person will be denied the care they need. Some choose to go to other countries; well that's just fine, their choice. If the care is necessary and unavailable in Canada, the system will pay for the procedure to be done in the US.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


Agreed, a price we pay to look after our own. Same applies to the UK. The system isn't perfect by a long shot and, in some ways, the US system may be better equipped/funded, but I know a nationalised system works for the British on the whole, as I would always want to concentrate on getting better if taken ill and not worry about re-mortgaging the house to pay medical costs.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Actually I'm mocking you and laughing at you.

Well... isn't that special

Anyways

Originally posted by groingrinder

I am sure that it is not the POOR CANADIANS who are traveling to America to pay cash for their health care. If you have the money, you can travel anywhere in the world to obtain whatever it is you desire including health care.

You can count on that as well as any that have a criminal record of any kind. Get busted for a pipe with residue and you'll never get into America.

There are specialists and procedures in the states that are not available in Canada. You could accuse the brain drain since docs south of the border get paid substancially more and you can bet most new grads from Canadian medical schools are drooling at the chance to go where the big bucks are.

Originally posted by bismos

Originally posted by MessOnTheFED!
reply to post by endtimer

 

Health care should be free PERIOD.

MOTF!

um no. you should take care of yourself and if you cant your only option is to pay for someones SERVICE TO YOU. they didnt make you go to the hospital and have anything done to you. you did it of your own free will.

Ummmm let me think... NO. It should be FREE. I didn't decide to be born and neither did you. Healthcare should be free, food should be free, water should be free because all are essential to your life. You're just not fully awake to come to that realization buddy boy but I promise you, your kind will be gone soon. The world's tired of nonsense.

reply to post by OzWeatherman


The problem with Obama's health care thingy is that it forced people to purchase insurance from insurance companies. The only way to not pay is to go on Medicare/Medicaid. Why do you all assume it would be free health care?
I understand that maybe his original plan included free health care, but that's not what we got.

Originally posted by LarryLove
but I know a nationalised system works for the British on the whole, as I would always want to concentrate on getting better if taken ill and not worry about re-mortgaging the house to pay medical costs.

That's the main thing.

The last thing you need when you're ill is to start worrying and stressing about costs and having to pay for medicine and treatment and hospital time.

Healthcare shouldn't be about whether you can afford it or having to determine which illness is worth getting checked out and which you can live with... prioritising your illnesses and ailments.

Our (UK) system, along with all the other countries who have nationalised "Free" healthcare, is in my opinion, the most civilised and the most humane system.
Everyone chips in and everyone benefits.... that's the way it should be.


I wonder how many people have had their illness worsen through the stress of the financial burden they are saddled with when they or a family member is taken ill.

reply to post by blupblup


Which is why I will always defend our system. Maybe the whole thing comes down to what systems we are used to, but I would like to see alternate ideas put forward by those people in this thread who consider nationalising health care a step towards Communism.

That is absolutely shocking. why the hell with all the money the usa has cant they give its people a national health service like we do in the uk. If every tax paying law abiding citizen took a stand and said no more! WE WANT NHS then the government would obediently back down and give the mass what they want . Its not like your in a 3rd world. I hope you get this sorted.

reply to post by groingrinder


Okay, you should apply for medicare/medicaid insurance within your state.

In NY state (where I live), I belonged to the Medicaid Family Health Plus care plan for 2 years, and then when it was D/C'd a few years back, the state made it really easy to join Medicaid's Affinity Family Health Care Plan. This comes at NO cost, you just cannot make more than $800/ month or have other insurance while on it.

Call a Medicaid rep., and request information about one of your state's health care plans and find out more.

I had NO copays for emergency visits or annual gynocological or routine physicals. For prescriptions I was paying $2 copay for all my medications.

People who fall in a higher income bracket that don't get insurance (and suffer from the expensive costs of paying for insurance out of pocket) from their jobs get screwed, you however can benefit from this 100% due to income level.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


Mr. Canuck, and Mr. Love:

I appreciate your intelligent and tenacious efforts.

However, these people have what they need and don't give an undomesticated equine's derriere about anyone else.

Thank you.

Originally posted by LarryLove
reply to post by blupblup

Maybe the whole thing comes down to what systems we are used to, but I would like to see alternate ideas put forward by those people in this thread who consider nationalizing health care a step towards Communism.

This is, in all likelihood, the crux of the issue here in the states. Couple this "used to" factor with the skewed views on what both communism (it WAS an enemy for decades here.. and still is to many) and socialism mean to a lot of people here in the US .... and you get what we have today.

Solutions will not be forthcoming, however, as the concept of treating a human as a profit/loss indicator or cash cow will never fall out of favor as long as we have for-profit health care systems and companies in place.

reply to post by stewalters1


The problem is there are too many selfish people who don't care about others. These are the people who claim that anyone who demands universal healthcare is a communist demanding everything for free. It is impossible to communicate with such irrational people. I hope they never end up in the hospital without healthcare.

My sympathies!

My country has something called "high cost protection". When it comes to medication you have to pay approx. 270 US dollars, everyting after that is FREE for a year from the first medication payment done. When it comes to visit a doctor everything above approx 150 US dollar is FREE from the first doctor visit payment done. Let's say you have to consult a doctor the 1st of January 2011 and the 1st of February you have payed a total of approx. 150 US dollar. The rest of the year - until the 31st of Dec 2011 you get free consulting time with the doctor!

I think providing every citizen with healthcare is a decency that goes without saying.

I wish you the best for 2011!

Originally posted by stewalters1
That is absolutely shocking. why the hell with all the money the usa has cant they give its people a national health service like we do in the uk. If every tax paying law abiding citizen took a stand and said no more! WE WANT NHS then the government would obediently back down and give the mass what they want . Its not like your in a 3rd world. I hope you get this sorted.

Well It's not really like that.

Many (maybe most?) in the US actually like the system they have.
If they can afford healthcare and can look after themselves, why should they have to pay for someone else's health and well-being...

"That's like Communism."!!

It's a very complicated argument (or It's made out to be at least) and one that has been argued over and over and over here on ATS many, many times.

As Larry said... people get used to the system they have... It's what they know.

Change is hard man.... hard for an individual and even harder for an entire nation.

reply to post by groingrinder


sorry to say, but the reason why your bill is so much is because you have insurance. the hospital probably did tests/treatments that they otherwise wouldn't have done if you didn't have insurance. you see, the people who have insurance are floating the entire healthcare system. for anyone to demand that it be free is an asshole. you work for #; you don't get # for free. not while i'm alive. not on this earth. just merely uttering idiotic statements like that infuriate me. it's like you're proud of not contributing to sociey and you're not embarrassed about sneaking your hands into my wallet and stealing my money that i earn with time and sweat. it can't be free for everyone. someone has to pay for it. how about if you get sick, you pay. not, i get sick and i have insurance so i'll pay my bill plus ten low-life's who don't work or are too stupid to aquire insurance. some people just plain are going to die. you can't save everyone. i would suggest a full on class/race war to end all this bull#.

reply to post by ladyinwaiting


Thank you, but maybe I live in a romanticised world where a profession in health care is still considered a vocation and profit, if at all, comes second to a patient's well being. The UK's system has some serious issues, but rich or poor, you can get the same level of care.

P.S. I enjoyed your turn of phrase. Might have to borrow that from time to time!