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I spent 3 hours in the ER on the 15th. I just got my $11,000.00 bill in the mail.

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posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 01:20 PM
wow, Apache Junction medical treatment is expensive... right in line with the
Phoenix services.

perhaps thats where the $8k write off came about... the hospital & other providers
automatically bill at the highest rate known, but must relent to the local standard
of living cost ratio... hence a $3k billing there in Apache Junction.

i reckon you won't be going out seeking the Lost Dutchman mine any time soon.
(to the other members/readers, Apache Junction is close to the Superstition mountains
there in AZ... where the fabled Lost Dutchman is said to be hidden)

posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 01:24 PM

Originally posted by endtimer
reply to post by groingrinder

I'm not sure what the point is. You had all of these procedures done,
knowing you only have $50.00 a month, you knew this going to the
Medical Center.

Actually, it was the Emergency Room. ER visits are WAY more expensive.

Sadly, folks with little income to pay for regular meds (I don't know that this is the case with the OP) will often have a pattern of waiting till they're terribly sick and then going to the ER... resulting in horrendous bills which they can't pay. And they can't afford the meds.

I did a ride-along with Fire EMS responders. Learned a lot of sad facts like that.

posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 01:26 PM
And now on to France ....
France has just implemented US style 'co-pays'. It can't afford what it's got.
It's not that they get bad health care .. at least not much worse than here in the USA,
it's just that it' is an UNSUSTAINABLE system.
And they don't have the USA to run over the border to when things get tough.] WSJ - France Fights Universal Health Cares High Cost

When Laure Cuccarolo went into early labor on a recent Sunday night in a village in southern France, her only choice was to ask the local fire brigade to whisk her to a hospital 30 miles away. A closer one had been shuttered by cost cuts in France's universal health system.

Doctors, trade unions and others have called national protests against French health-care cutbacks this year. One petition signed by prominent physicians said they feared the intent of the reform was to turn health care into a 'lucrative business' rather than a public service.

.Ms. Cuccarolo's little girl was born in a firetruck.

France claims it long ago achieved much of what today's U.S. health-care overhaul is seeking: It covers everyone, and provides what supporters say is high-quality care. But soaring costs are pushing the system into crisis. The result: As Congress fights over whether America should be more like France, the French government is trying to borrow U.S. tactics.

BBC News - French Healthcare is Badly Run

The report says citizens must pay more and doctors must alter their behaviour. Failure to do so could add 66 billion euros a year to France's public budget deficit by 2020, it adds. The warning comes after thousands of health workers protested on Thursday over staff shortages and the "creeping privatisation" of the health system.

And from the same article ... look at what the taxpayers in France are getting .. ripped off ..
Wonder who in the French Gov't is getting kickbacks for all these perscriptions ..

It says the French consume three times as many antibiotics as the Germans, and more than twice as many anti-cholesteral drugs as the British

I read a book a few months back about an American who was in France in August. He had a stomach rupture and needed immediate surgery. The only surgeon at the hospital wouldn't operate because it was late afternoon and he wanted to go home to bed. The other doctors were all on vacation .. it was august and it seems almost the entire country takes a vacation for the whole month. The fella lived because the doctor felt bad and come back to operate. The American developed an infection and a high fever, so they flew him to the USA to try to save him. He managed to get past airport security and get on an airplane and survive long enough to get back. Wish I could remember the name of the book ....

edit on 12/29/2010 by FlyersFan because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 01:27 PM
I was in the same boat as you, last year OP. I had come down with swine flu, got laid off my my job a day before i got real real sick with it... so i had no money coming in, went to the hospital for about 2-3 hours, told them my employment situation and all, no one ever said anything to me about a bill, they released me, i went to the check out line type thing, the receptionist never said anything about any bills or cost to me. a month later i got a bill in the mail for 2300$. i called up told them i was still unemployed and cant make payments or anything, tried to apply for a low income medical thingy, was denied. They eventually sent my bill to a collection agency, which i asked them to supply proof that i was ever in the hospital or that i agreed to pay any bills for it... they couldnt, so i never paid and i havent heard back from them yet...

ive read that if you ask them to provide your signature to prove that you owe on the bill, most times they cant produce that info, so you can get away with not paying it.... Not saying my credit rating isnt shot, which it could be from it, but i dont even care anymore, i pay all my other bills on time, or within a week of payment
Good luck

posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 01:27 PM

off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 01:28 PM
reply to post by pisces77

I do not disagree that a person who does not have health insurance may have a more difficult experience when it comes to getting treated. However, that person can get treated. Also, if a person has a more serious condition, they do have a tougher battle when it comes to getting treatment. But, again, there are avenues they can follow to get treatment. Health insurance definitely makes things easier, but those without insurance are not dropping dead by the thousands because they do not have heath insurance.

posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 01:30 PM

Originally posted by stumason
reply to post by Sparky63

What about people injured rock climbing? Or people hurt racing NASCAR? Or sky-diving? Deep sea diving? All dangerous activities..

You already pay for a vast network of support services such as the coastguard, police and fire services which spend alot of their time rescuing or helping people who are hurt, trapped or otherwise caught up in a "preventable" situation.

Or is it only people on your list? Doing activities that you don't agree with? Just ebcause you don't like soemthing, it doesn't give you any right to pass judgement. I probably hate some of the things you do, but crack on chap, it's your life.

In the US many of those rescued in these dangerous activities are receiving the bill from the agencies you mentioned. I will admit that I am torn on this issue and can see both sides of the coin. I ride a motorcycle and must buy extra insurance as a result. I am a certified diver and had to report this to my insurance company, fortunately I did not see any increase in my premiums due to this.

People need to take personal responsibility for their actions. I do not see the justice in forcing people who lead responsible lives to pay for those who don't. Some people have a careless disregard for life and don't seem to care if others have to pay for their reckless behavior.

To me that is just not right. I don't expect others to live by my standards, but I expect them to be responsible for the decisions they make.

posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 01:31 PM
reply to post by FlyersFan

So you have scoured the internet to find a few headlines and a couple of notable stories derived from blogs. I won't use similar arrogant tones to assume the medical system in my country works perfectly. It doesn't, but what it does do is provide an equal level of care irrespective of a patient's income. There are times when it gets things incredibly wrong and the media are all over it like a pig in the proverbial. There are waiting times and many people look to East Europe to get basic procedures done because of that. By no means is it free as we pay taxes to fund the system, however people can concentrate on getting better as opposed to worrying about paying over inflated medical costs. Principally, the UK's NHS is run to care and not serve insurance profiteers. There is still a strong semblance of health care being a vocation in the UK and, as yet, the money men haven't clawed their way into the system. This may change, but I want to ask you: are you happy with the status quo or do you think the US system needs changes? If so, what changes?

posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 01:31 PM

Originally posted by InvisibleAlbatross
Yup, doctors outside the US can do nothing.

I never said that. So
back atchya.
Of course there are going to be some good people here and there.
But read the FACTS that I posted. The entire Canadian system is messed up.
Health care here in the USA isn't that great -
My ATS thread - Medical Mistakes
But it's a better system than Canada for sure.

posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 01:33 PM

Originally posted by crmanager
Our Candian breteren love to say "I had my Cancer cured for $10" That is a LIE! It cost YOUR NEIGBORS THOUSANDS in higher taxes to pay for your "10" cure.

It's called 'insurance'...look it up sometime.
I pay into it, they pay into it.
It also comes out of our taxes.
Does it cripple us?
No...we are at least as well off as you Americans. And we manage to care for our fellow countrymen without pi$$ing and moaning about the cost.

Your point?

And it was $32 out of pocket, btw.

posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 01:34 PM

Originally posted by wayno
reply to post by Sparky63

So what would you want for all those people you mentioned, the drug addicts and smokers.

I would like you to describe exactly what it is that you do want for them.

There is no good solution for them in my opinion. I am open to suggestions. Is there a solution that doesn't involve forcing me to pay even if I don't want to? I doubt it.
Is there a solution that forces them to be responsible for themselves? So far this hasn't worked.
So like I said, I see both sides of the issue and honestly don't see a good solution.

posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 01:35 PM
reply to post by St Udio

Thank you for your post. I have spent much time researching the Lost Dutchman Mine. And when my health improves, I intend to go looking for it again. Three men perished here last summer searching for it and no smart person takes the quest lightly.

posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 01:36 PM
reply to post by Sparky63

I guess I threw those things in there to try to get a different perspective. With seeds, air, water, most (no, i'm sure not all) would say access to those things are a right, a right given to you through your birth here on this planet. I'm intrigued by how differently people view healthcare. Some view it as a 'right' while others seem to view it as a 'privilege.' I, obviously, view it as a birthright. Others don't. I"m trying to understand that position.
Way back in the day, tribal folks had their shaman/medicine man/woman, and that person would administer to the health needs of the villagers if the family felt it was needed. MOST (not all) of these cultures viewed this duty as a sacred duty that provided a service to ALL, and felt that to make a profit from doing these duties was like an insult to the divine spirit. I realize times have changed. But it was understood that we were responsible for one another, and if someone needed something, then the person who could do or provide that 'something' would do it without expectation. Now in appreciation, those receiving the service often would give something in return or make dinner, something along those lines, but it wasn't really expected. And oftentimes, the appreciation given would be after the service was rendered and they could see how effective the service rendered had been.

The fact that most of the illnesses/disorders/diseases people face in the present day are caused by man-made things such as pollution (of all kinds), to me, makes it also a right to have access to good healthcare to battle those man-made health issues. I was not asked if I wanted my water to be polluted with pharmaceuticals, I was not asked if I wanted my food to be contaminated with chemicals, I was not asked if I wanted the air I breathe to be laden with god knows if my physical body is forced to endure these things because of the greed of man, well, then I think the healers of our tribe need to do their sacred duty.

I understand this concept isn't practical for most minds in today's world. A doctor with six digit school loans can't afford to live off of the thanks & a good meal from a family. Because they need money. Why? To buy more 'things.' Back to that again...
Perspectives and priorities.

posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 01:37 PM
reply to post by Ancient Champion

You would not have to pay more. If the war budget was rolled back, there would be plenty for every citizen to receive healthcare.

posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 01:39 PM

Originally posted by LarryLove
Your facts are outstanding and would love to read about the issues in France and the Canadians who are flocking across the border for health services. Are you for real?

reply to post by LarryLove

Are you for real? (backatchya) Come on now LarryLove ... I posted exactly what you asked for. I posted REAL ISSUES for the Canadian health care system and showed how Canadians are coming here for health services. Admit it. Canada's 'free' (tax payer paid) health care system isn't free, and it doesn't work. Admit it. People die waiting for the 'free' speciality services (like cancer fighting treatments, heart care, hip replacements, etc). Admit it and stop deflecting. I provided exactly what you asked for. Go ahead .. you can do it!

posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 01:42 PM
reply to post by FlyersFan

Would over 50 million uninsured Americans agree that the US system is as good as you say it is?

2nd line.

posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 01:42 PM
reply to post by Byrd

Yes, true.
I work in a state's government system, and since doing so, I've learned so many things about this system that most don't want to hear, much less want to actually think about. I'm glad, tho, because now I feel like I can actually 'see' what's going on.

posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 01:43 PM

Originally posted by FlyersFan
The entire Canadian system is messed up.
Health care here in the USA isn't that great -
But it's a better system than Canada for sure.

How come these arm chair experts are so much smarter than anybody I know?
We don't hold off going to see a doctor or an ER because we can't afford it, and no amount of right-wing googling can change that fact. We don't go broke from hospital bills (outside of extraordinary circumstances due to procedures not yet covered/accepted)

The sad truth is that the OP's experience would never have happened in this country...and ought not to have happened in his.

posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 01:48 PM
reply to post by FlyersFan

And people die because they don't have insurance. How many out of the 50 million plus go this way? You haven't posted facts and there's no need to jump up and down screaming at people to agree with you. Seriously, we can have a discussion without the childish behavior.

This thread has brought up some good discussion points regarding insurance based systems and nationalised ones. There are serious problems with both and the OP's predicament highlights an important one.
edit on 29-12-2010 by LarryLove because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 01:51 PM

Originally posted by LarryLove
Would over 50 million uninsured Americans agree that the US system is as good as you say it is?

Would you like to read the thread and click on the link I posted about medical mistakes?
Would you like to stop telling LIES .. I never said the US system was good.
Would you like to stop deflecting?
Would you like to stay on topic? Probably not, eh?
Still can't admit that I provided exactly what you asked for?
Comeon, LarryLove .. you can do it if you try.
Comeon ... admit your snarky 'are you for real' was outta' place and wrong.
It's okay ... go ahead! Say it ... Canada's system doesn't work.

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