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I spent 3 hours in the ER on the 15th. I just got my $11,000.00 bill in the mail.

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posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 12:44 PM

Originally posted by Chett
reply to post by Erongaricuaro


I agree, got much better health care outside the US, and for a lot less money. The ccost is high in the US for several reasons ..the seperation of payer and cost ...most people who have insurance never even see those bills so the buyer has no real choice power to effect the market. Second the risk to the medical staff to get sued ..they pay huge insurance. OH and a third, the huge bills they owe when they finish school - but thats whole nother subject.

One reason to have insurance is like mentioned in the OP; the person off the street gets charged the $11,000 but I doubt the insurance company pays more than the $3,000 alternative price, probably less.

I had surgery almost 20 years ago and insurance paid for most of it but there were still other lab costs, tests, and other outside fees involved yet much of that was covered by my insurance as well. Those labs also sent me a bill with the usual threatening tone about due dates and late-payment fees. Like others I paid those before their due date but found out later insurance also paid them. They don't routinely refund your money in such cases of overpayment, you have to demand it - you have to know about it in order to demand it but no one is going to tell you and no one is going to voluntarily give you a refund. It is necessary to investigate all bills, make calls to you insurance company - sometimes several in order to get answers, then you must forcefully demand your refund. It's a racket. Unfortunately I worked in remote sites and travelled overseas and didn't have time or inclination to follow all that up and get money back that was rightfully mine.

So good luck Americans, I too am American but for very many reasons I am no longer a resident and hope I to never need to go back there for any reason. If you think you have it good I am glad you think so. Enjoy what you have but just realize if you have never lived anywhere else then you don't really know the big picture. Americanism is like a religion in many ways, if you believe what they tell you to believe you may be very happy but much of it is a big fairytale.
edit on 29-12-2010 by Erongaricuaro because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 12:45 PM
duplicate post
edit on 29-12-2010 by Erongaricuaro because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 12:48 PM

Originally posted by stumason
Or, to put it more accurately, look after number 1 and sod everyone else!

Whatever happened to a sense of SOCIAL RESPONSIBILITY? Caring for your fellow man, working to better society? Or has it got to such a stage that, in the US at least, you'r only goal in life is to look after your own arse and sod everyone else?

EDIT: Your blaming the poor guy for firstly being unemployed and secondly having the front to get ill! I am not sure you could be any more callous.

What ever happened to reviewing the facts of the situation and making an informed and cogent conclusion from them?

I'm not blaming him for being unemployed or getting ill... I'm blaming him for being lazy and disingenuous.

All he had to do was apply for AHCCCS when his financial woes first fell upon him and he wouldn't have received a hospital bill. He didn't... Ask him why not?

Once he was ill and in the ER, the hospital assisted him by getting him to apply for AHCCCS... Which when approved will reduce his liability to zero (perhaps he can arrange for AHCCCS to provide nanny care and change those diapers on a regular basis but I digress). He omitted this pertinent and crucial fact from his OP, and only admitted to it on page 13... It kind of takes the steam out of the story if the $11,000.00 bill is actually going to be $0.

Take a deep breath, admit yourself and (almost) everyone else was duped and move on...

posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 12:49 PM

Originally posted by gncnew

Be thankful you live in a country where they will treat you first then, and a country where we don't have debtor's prisons. You got treated.... and you only make $50 a month (by the way, what the hell is paying you $50 a month? And where are you getting internet access at if you only make that much?).

Bottom line is that our medical bills are that high because people like you who cannot or will not pay their bill.

They have to over bill everyone to make up the difference.

I make 50 bucks a month moderating web forums that teach people 3D Modeling and UV Mapping. I live with and take care of my elderly father in his home. He pays for the internet which I use also.

You are wrong about why medical bills are too high.

The only other thing in America which compares with medical bills is buying a house. I have detailed in another post in this thread the breakdown on hospital equipment and why it is paid for several times over.

I realize equipment can be complicated and expensive. You put the word "Medical" in front of anything and it automatically increases the cost. [color=#FF9900]When I was in fifth grade back in the mid sixties me and two friends built an X-Ray Machine. We did it with our allowance money and combined did not spend over a hundred dollars. So I know a little about what it takes to build medical equipment.

I said this in an earlier post, but it bears repeating now. [color=#FF0000] Hospitals and Medical Centers dot the Arizona landscape thicker than 7-11's for a reason. That reason is that they make money and lots of it.

posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 12:51 PM

Originally posted by groingrinder
reply to post by endtimer

IRich people come from the world over to purchase American medical care. Yet poor Americans die by the thousands each year who cannot afford American medical care.

This is a total fabrication (or lie if you prefer). Poor Americans do not die by the thousands each year for lack of health insurance. Anyone at anytime can walk into an emergency room and recieve health care. It is illegal for a hospital to deny them. Yes, as in your case, there will be a bill. And a person my have trouble paying that bill. But, to say that thousands of Americans die each year because they cannot afford health care is just wrong.

posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 12:54 PM
this same thing happened to me. my brother had the flu, and gave it to me. my ex-gf gets home from work, wakes me up because my body was on fire, i ended up having a temperature of 103. so we drive to the ER, they give me tylenol and tell me to wait to see the doctor, 3 hours later my temperature was gone (brought a thermometer) and so i left. i get a bill in the mail for 500$ for 3 tylenol, and never seeing the doctor. wtf?!?

posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 12:55 PM
reply to post by Mirthful Me

I think this opened a solid discussion on issues we as a nation face when it comes to the health care system currently in place in the US. I see no duping here, perhaps some items were left out of the original post, however is this the first time such a thing has happened here at ATS? Highly unlikely.

perhaps he can arrange for AHCCCS to provide nanny care and change those diapers on a regular basis

is the personal attack entirely necessary?

edit on 29-12-2010 by BiggyMcBigPants because: spelling correction

posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 12:59 PM
reply to post by Mannie159

you may receive 'healthcare' if you go to the ER, but it will be minimal care. Just enough to make sure you don't drop dead immediately walking out the door and to cover for liablity purposes so family cannot sue. And if you need follow-up with a specialist?...good luck with getting appropriate treatment. Odds are if you do not have insurance of some type you will simply be given some scripts and told to come back every so often.
You know, I don't have to go by what anyone else's experience is, I can just look back at my own life. And let me tell you, there IS a difference in the quality, quantity, and availability of the health care you receive if you do have insurance vs. if you do not have insurance.
& Medicaid patients often are just getting the symptoms treated (often with pharmaceuticals that are questionable) not the cause--this is firsthand experience, also.

posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 01:00 PM
reply to post by Mirthful Me

You assume much for somebody who denies ignorance. I thank you for the link to the Banner Baywood financial assistance page in an earlier post though.

The fact remains the had I not met a certain requirement financially, I would be expected to pay $11,000.00 for three hours in the ER. I am sure many people are expected to pay that.

Your personal attack was unwarranted and speaks volumes of your spiritual evolution.

edit on 12-29-2010 by groingrinder because: Edited to provide further entertainment value.

posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 01:01 PM
reply to post by ElectricUniverse

Canada is neither bankrupt, nor at the precipice. Before making such general statements, you would be wise to research. The system is far from perfect, but everyone will recieve care and not have to worry about being in debt forever. Contrary to popular opinion, healthcare is not free; it is paid for by tax money, money that is better spent on healthcare than on military ventures and corporate bailouts.

posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 01:03 PM

Originally posted by groingrinder
I had an EKG and a urine test and a ultrasound. Plus some intravenous pain killer. My hands are shaking uncontrollably right now because I am so ticked off. MEDICINE SHOULD NOT COST THIS MUCH. I have lost my job and make $50.00 dollars a month. To be fair I must say that Banner Baywood discounted my bill by $8,000.00 so that my final bill is only $3,000.00, but I still cannot pay that when I only have fifty bucks a month coming in. I owe the Radiologist $460.00 dollars for their test and I still have not gotten the bill from the ER doctor who will bill separately. I will update this thread after I talk to the financial responsibility representative from Banner Baywood.

Oh Dear God...

We will start with the fact you make $50 per month...

That is a lie or you are not utilzing all of your resources from the government. I have 3 friend making $2000 per month on unemployment.

Second. Your bill is $3000 not $11,000 drama queen.

Third, you received the BEST TREATMENT IN THE WORLD and you seem to think it should be damn near free. Free treament is WORTH the money you paid for it.

Our Candian breteren love to say "I had my Cancer cured for $10" That is a LIE! It cost YOUR NEIGBORS THOUSANDS in higher taxes to pay for your "10" cure.

Fourth...Three hours in the Emergency room? Where in the heck did you get that much treatment and OUT in 3 hours?

Fabrication or exaggeration...This post stinks.

posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 01:06 PM
YES .. I'm for real. So are the facts.
I'll be accepting apologies from the nay sayers and detractors all afternoon.

We'll start with Canada and work over to France ...
Some reading ... plenty more if you still need to read it after this cold slap in the face with reality -

The Canadian Patients Remedy for Heatlh Care - Go to America!

And wait patients must. A hospital survey of five countries (United States, Canada, New Zealand, United Kingdom and Australia), conducted by Robert Blendon and colleagues in Health Affairs found that “waits of six months or more for elective surgeries were reported to occur ‘very often’ or ‘often’ by 26–57 percent of executives in the four non-U.S. countries; only 1 percent of U.S. hospitals reported this. Half of all Canadian hospitals reported an average waiting time of over six months for a 65-year-old male requiring a routine hip replacement; no American hospital administrators reported waits this long.

CNN - Reality Check. Canadas Health Care System

Holmes is Canadian, but the "they" she refers to are doctors at the Mayo Clinic in the United States, where she turned after specialists in her own government-run health care system would not see her fast enough.

"My family doctor at that time tried to get me in to see an endocrinologist and a neurologist," Holmes recalled. "It was going to be four months for one specialist and six months for the other."

This article also says that instead of investing in new hospitals/health care facilities, the docs in Canada just send the patients over the border to the USA to get the surgeries if they are immediately needed. Canada can't cope with moving fast enough ..
Michigan Business

Hospitals in border cities, including Detroit, are forging lucrative arrangements with Canadian health agencies to provide care not widely available across the border.

Agreements between Detroit hospitals and the Ontario Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care for heart, imaging tests, bariatric and other services provide access to some services not immediately available in the province, said ministry spokesman David Jensen.

City Journal - The Ugly Truth About Canadian Health Care

My health-care prejudices crumbled not in the classroom but on the way to one. On a subzero Winnipeg morning in 1997, I cut across the hospital emergency room to shave a few minutes off my frigid commute. Swinging open the door, I stepped into a nightmare: the ER overflowed with elderly people on stretchers, waiting for admission. Some, it turned out, had waited five days. The air stank with sweat and urine. Right then, I began to reconsider everything that I thought I knew about Canadian health care. I soon discovered that the problems went well beyond overcrowded ERs. Patients had to wait for practically any diagnostic test or procedure, such as the man with persistent pain from a hernia operation whom we referred to a pain clinic—with a three-year wait list; or the woman needing a sleep study to diagnose what seemed like sleep apnea, who faced a two-year delay; or the woman with breast cancer who needed to wait four months for radiation therapy, when the standard of care was four weeks.

The Examiner

Unfortunately, as a lifelong resident of Canada, getting medical care is no simple task. Luckily, you generally don't have a problem seeing your general practitioner -- unlike some 17 percent of your compatriots who do not have a GP, or what Americans call a primary care doctor. But seeing a specialist in your native land is almost always a nightmare.

Canadian Politicians Pushing Health Care Come to USA for Heart Surgery

Recently, a Canadian Premier (their version of Governor) had a heart problem. He could of had free health care, if he wanted long enough--but he decided he wanted to live instead. So he came to the United States for heart surgery. "An unapologetic Danny Williams says he was aware his trip to the United States for heart surgery earlier this month would spark outcry, but he concluded his personal health trumped any public fallout over the controversial decision.

17,500 Canadians Can't Be Wrong

Since Barack Obama was inaugurated President just over seven months ago, some 17,500 Canadian have come to the U.S. to receive health care. Just since the President’s health care legislation was introduced in the House of Representatives in March, about 12,500 Canadians have come here for health care. During that same period, how many Americans have travelled north to obtain health care in Canada because they couldn’t get it here in the States?

Most Cancer survival rates in USA better than Europe and Canada
- cuz' we get medical care faster here ... and because doctors who make their own money based on their ability can make more than someone paid a standard rate by the government .... betchya ...

USA has highest survival rates for Breast and Prostrate Cancer

posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 01:11 PM
You could probably fly to India get equivalent or maybe even better treatment and pay less than it's cost you.

There might be other places you could go to as well that I don't know about.

The UK government started sending patients abroad for treatment in some cases as it worked out cheaper.

posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 01:12 PM
reply to post by crmanager

Nothing has been exaggerated or fabricated. The fact remains that, if I had not met certain financial criteria, then I would be expected to pay the full $11,000.00. I am sure that many employed people who cannot afford insurance would be expected to pay that amount.

Everybody assumes that I will have my bill paid by AHCCCS. Monies for AHCCCS have been seriously trimmed from the state budget. So to assume that my bill will be paid or that I will have future access to medical care is putting the cart before the horse.

posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 01:12 PM
reply to post by groingrinder

I am sorry you are having health and financial difficulties. First off, please take a breath. Try to calm yourself as things are never as rosy nor are the as dark as they seem. Despite your inability to pay at the time of treatment, you were cared for. Write or phone the department or person that is doing the billing and explain your situation. They don't know what we know. Give them a chance to respond, perhaps even greater reductions in the bill are possible. I think the method is for them to overcharge with the knowledge that the insurance companies, medicare, medicaid or whoever is typically footing the bill will only pay a percentage. It's a game of oneupmanship that these institutions play to get what they consider fair to them. I think we can all thank our lucky stars for the law profession and it's contributions to health care. They have certainly added to the pile while making precious few non-lawyers more whole.

As for you having to pay at all and your pride in wanting to do so, take a moment and think this through. Hospitals and clinics have provisions to provide care for those that cannot pay. I believe this is a mandate and as some have stated, there are foreigners that are taking advantage of this. The money is likely already there. Ask what is possible, ask what is mandated for them in such cases.

Good luck and good health!

posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 01:12 PM
reply to post by FlyersFan

Corporate-run media? Nothing surprising there.
Sure don't wanna rock the boat of profit...

posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 01:13 PM
Ok, so I am insensitive, uncaring, a troll, and don't give a rats a$$. Well thanks for
all of the insensitive, uncaring and trollish replies from those that demand everything
to be given them for free. You can complain about our health care system in the US
all you want. You can complain until you are purple, orange and green in the face.
Until this ridiculous system is changed, it will remain the same. It ISN'T FREE, and
when it is, you can all live in your warm, fuzzy feeling, giddy existence.

And it doesn't matter one iota how things are done in Canada or in Europe. How is
all of that free stuff working out for you all? How long do you wait for a doctor? How
long do you have to sit in an emergency room waiting for "emergency" help? How
long of a waiting list do you have to see a doctor for whatever reason?

Go ahead and attack me all you want, remember it doesn't mean a rats a$$ to me.
I realize as much as anyone that our health system sucks in this country. It is beyond
comprehension to me also. I hate it. It sucks. It is not fun paying 20 times what something
should actually cost. It is a terrible thing in this country. We all love to shout at the
rooftops about how we are the greatest country on earth. We are in a lot of ways. Our health
care, and general care for poor people in this country is appalling. This country of all
the countries on earth should have the best of everything. It should be at a price we can
ALL afford, including the OP. But, it just isn't that way.

A lot of the posters on this thread can go till the end of the earth saying things should be
this way or that way, should be done this way or that way. Until things are changed,
guess what? It will stay the same until he!! freezes over.

Something called "free interprise" leads the way this country is ran. I have no say over it
and no one else does either. Squak all you will, but it falls on deaf ears. If we could just
stop these uleless and unnecessary wars, we could all have a lot of things. But it isn't
that way in the US. Cut me down all you want, but nothing is going to change until
it is actually changed. In the meantime, I am not going to feel guilty or lose sleep over
another persons health bills. If you want change, a lot of you voted for Obama to get all
of this change he promised us. How is that working out for you? After everything is changed
to a "FREE" society, then you can attack me like a pack of wild coyotes for thinking
like I do. And to the poster who made reference to me being a banker. What a joke. That
is one group of thieving, stealing thugs that should be done away with. So, NO, I am not
a banker. I hope the OP DOES get better and finds a way around his mess. It just doesn't
do any good to complain about it. It sounds like he is wanting the people on ATS to wipe
out the other $3,000. Sorry Charlie.

posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 01:15 PM
reply to post by FlyersFan

I am sure that it is not the POOR CANADIANS who are traveling to America to pay cash for their health care. If you have the money, you can travel anywhere in the world to obtain whatever it is you desire including health care.

posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 01:17 PM
reply to post by FlyersFan

Please tell this to my neurologist who, on his day off, left a musical he was attending with his wife, raced to the hospital, in his tuxedo to perform a medical procedure on a little girl. He saved that girl's life and he is a doctor in a so-called socialist/communist system. The same doctor went to the US for two years to train American doctors in procedures he worked to create. Yup, doctors outside the US can do nothing.

posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 01:17 PM

Originally posted by pisces77
reply to post by Sparky63

So you put yourself in the place of judging who should/should not receive healthcare?
Should we also judge who should/should not be breathing the air? Or who should have access to water? Or who should have access to seeds to grow their food?
Or...wait, sorry, we already do.

No I do not put it upon myself to judge who should get health care. I put it upon myself to judge whose health care I should have to pay for though.
If you do not take care of your car and allow it to fall apart, should I be forced to pay for the repairs? If your house falls apart because you do not maintain it, should I be forced to pay for it? My answer is a resounding...NO!
As far as I am concerned the same applies to those who lead self destructive lifestyles and then demand that others should foot the bill for their health care.

As far as air & water & seeds go...I fail to see what these have to do with this subject.
edit on 12/29/2010 by Sparky63 because: (no reason given)

edit on 12/29/2010 by Sparky63 because: spelling error

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