I spent 3 hours in the ER on the 15th. I just got my $11,000.00 bill in the mail.

My friend recently had a kidney stone. He went to the ER in intense pain and literally all they did was tell him he had a stone, give him a pain killer and another drug and let him stay for a few hours. The bill was also $10,000... WTF. Theres no way it cost them anywhere near that much for what they did. Maybe $200 at most. This is why american healthcare is so disgustingly broken, you've got greedy rich drug corporations and hospitals charging way way way more than is even remotely reasonable. Just like a hammer apparently costs $200 when a military-contracted corporation like haliburton charges the govt, then we have to pay the bill. Greed has ruined this country.

Oh, so I don't care about anyone and don't give a rats ass? I don't care about whining and sniveling
people that seem to want everything handed to them on a golden platter, that's what I don't give a
rats ass about. Health care ISN'T free. Only to welfare folks and those wanting more and more and
more entitlements that are paid for by the working stiffs that go to work everyday in this country,
and to illegal creeps that sneak into our country and demand everything free. I am not saying the
OP is any of the above, and don't try to tell me that is what I am saying. Until health care is truly
FREE, as you would demand, then pay your freaking bills and quit bitchin' to everyone else.

You remind me a lot of my cousin he used to be just like you, hard working little man with a higher than average salary, he used to complain alot about welfare too and so on calling them freeloaders and lazy bastards that didn't want to work and just wanted to have everything free and handed over to them. He couldn't see that there was another world outside his own little self, but how could I blame him I mean how could of he been able to see the world outside when all he looked at was how great his little person was... One day he woke up and realized he was jobless because the company decided to cut his position, he tried to find another job but soon realized that THEY DON'T FALL FROM THE SKY... then he had to step over his pride and got on welfare... Its funny right now the colors he turn when you ask him about welfare now...

That's your future son, maybe in 1 years.... 5 years... 10 years... it will happen to you too... it always does... life doesn't always go according to the plan and boy oh boy are you in for a rude awaking one morning...

Originally posted by MessOnTheFED!
Health care should be free PERIOD.

Really? So if health care is free, who pays the doctors, nurses etc..? Who pays for their schooling and training?

I predict your answer will be "The Government". If so, what gives you the right to steal money from me just because you are sick? Do you also have the right to steal my money because you are hungry? Homeless? Because your Audi is in the shop? or you can't buy another carton of cigarettes? GET OFF YOUR LAZY A$$ AND GET A JOB!

Originally posted by darkest4
My friend recently had a kidney stone. He went to the ER in intense pain and literally all they did was give him a pain killer and another drug and let him stay for a few hours. The bill was also $10,000.

The answer is simple.

If you are an American citizen DON'T goto the Emergency room.

Start turning to the blackmarket for your healthcare.

Originally posted by In nothing we trust

Originally posted by darkest4
My friend recently had a kidney stone. He went to the ER in intense pain and literally all they did was give him a pain killer and another drug and let him stay for a few hours. The bill was also $10,000.

The answer is simple.

If you are an American citizen DON'T goto the Emergency room.

Start turning to the blackmarket for your healthcare.

Uh right..? And where do you find this "black market" and how do they diagnose in the middle of the night when your insides feel like theyre getting stabbed with a knife?

That's where I love my country... Maybe it takes me longer to see a doctor when I go to the ER but I sit and talk with folk and usually end up being the clown in the waiting room making people laugh and cracking jokes... it ease the wait time and make them feel better... And I can afford being in the mood to joke while waiting because my only concern is if they are or are going to take out their satanic evil monster needles and try to stab the crap out of my arms again...

I see Obamacare is working well over there..

Originally posted by endtimer

Originally posted by MessOnTheFED!
reply to post by endtimer

 

I guess your one of the folks who dont really give a rats ass about anyone but yourself? If you dont see the total scheme going on all around you, you must be. Health care should be free PERIOD.

MOTF!

Oh, so I don't care about anyone and don't give a rats ass? I don't care about whining and sniveling
people that seem to want everything handed to them on a golden platter, that's what I don't give a
rats ass about. Health care ISN'T free. Only to welfare folks and those wanting more and more and
more entitlements that are paid for by the working stiffs that go to work everyday in this country,
and to illegal creeps that sneak into our country and demand everything free. I am not saying the
OP is any of the above, and don't try to tell me that is what I am saying. Until health care is truly
FREE, as you would demand, then pay your freaking bills and quit bitchin' to everyone else.

I would love to see people like this actually have to go through hard times so that they can understand that its not as easy to just "go get a job" like they think it is. 9% unemployement (which is a very generous number its more like 20%) obviously means nothing to these people until they actually lose their source of income.

Healthcare should be completely free. Medication that literally costs pennies to make shouldnt cost $80 a bottle. Its highway robbery and seeing as how Obamacare was written by the insurance companies I dont see any end in sight. Its all about taking as much money away from the people that already have nothing.

So why do I care? Because the greatest nation in the world cant seem to help its own people while others like Canada and the UK do so openly and with such ease. The kicker? Instead of helping our own people we want to open the borders and hand that aid to illegal immigrants. We cant even pass a proper bill to help the 9-11 heroes but we sure as hell had to talk about the dream act didnt we? I always said you were screwed the minute you were actually born in this country.

reply to post by ScepticalBeliever


Thats why, if I was very badly injured and they had to use expensive technologies to save me, Id rather die than be saved to a life of debt.

Sorry OP that sucks so bad.

Also this reminds me of this song, read the lyrics
www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by Gazrok

I still think if medical care in the US were paid by our taxes there would still be demand for higher-cost options for the more affluent to buy - with parts of those costs receiving subsidies that other have. And there would be need for elective surgery as well.

The US needs to eliminate the insurance company middlemen from the cost of healthcare to its residents.

There's no doubt that medical care is in need of basic socialization, with optional and premium medical services then being covered either out of pocket, or with supplemental insurance.

The problem is, how to do so, when the current system is so entrenched. It's not as easy as it sounds. Instant socialization would force many insurance carriers to go under, leaving unpaid debts and benefits, laid off workers, etc. and only compounding the problem.

Obamacare is no solution either, neither is unconstitutionally forcing someone to pay for medical insurance with a private company. But, a solution IS needed.

Good point about carriers going under , laid-off workers, etc., but we have seen the same done for worse reasons. This would clearly be an occasion it could be justified to do so. I would agree to grant benefits to those whom a new system displaced.

Agree also Obamacare is not a solution. That was a compromise that came out of a committee. Perhaps his original plan would have been better but he had to please the other side of the aisle along with many lobbyists pushing back.

Time for a new vehicle, too late for an overhaul.

I feel the OPs pain. In 2001 I had something come up that required a Dr. visit. I did not have insurance, but it was important and I had the $30 it would cost to see a local physician. I had to have some test run. It was another $1200 for the test that determined that I had an unusual form of bladder cancer. Within the next 2 years I had $75,000 dollars worth of surgery and cancer treatments. I did not work at all for the first year. Last year I paid off the last of my medical debt. I only had one bill, the anesthetist's, go to collection. Nothing in this world is free. I got excellent health care without insurance. I just had to pay for it. I am cancer free and feel like it was worth every penny. People forget that it is already illegal to deny someone health care, and it has been that way in the U.S. for a long long time.

seeing as how Obamacare was written by the insurance companies I dont see any end in sight

That's exactly right...and it's why it won't pass. It is NOTHING like what was expected during the election trail (of course, many of us knew that, and so didn't vote for him, hehe...)

9% unemployment would be optimistic. I know in FL, last I saw it was double-digit, and as we know, that figure is likely low-ball just to avoid a panic.

I was out for nearly 4 months last time I was laid off (I was a project manager for Verizon's FIOS build, and with the economy, expense projects were either cut back or terminated...so no project, no project manager)...and I was looking for a job VERY actively, many hours each day, etc. And, I've got a pretty nice resume and worked for some big name companies in a variety of fields.

I was even willing to make way less, if it meant being back to work. Luckily, I found something at the same level, but those 4 months were rough (especially since my wife was also out of work, for 3 of those 4 months, as she had been laid off earlier). Took her even longer to find one than I did. Took us months to get out of the hole from those times. (and we had savings prior to it...no longer). Trying to build back up now though.

reply to post by groingrinder


The usual 'sorry for your predicament' - really.

I've been to the ER too - once this past year - against my better judgement just because i didn't

have an iv fluid bag at home to start. You see I'm a radiologist.

A. Anyone tell you why they got that Ultrasound? (US)

B. Did you know the radiologist might collect around $60 to read that ultrasound, while being liable for up
to $10million in damages if they miss an important finding? The hospital gets the rest (if the hospital owns
the machine).

C. The cost of medicine sucks, and i'm agreeing with you more than informing you.

D. Why does it suck? Ask the corporation who makes that ultrasound machine (siemens? GE? phillips?) why
that machine costs on average $350,000; i can order one just as practical for $10-15,000 but hospitals don't
because they think more $ is better; also, MRI and CT scanners should NOT cost > $1M, Moore's law seems
to have been replaced with Gecko's law (Greed is good, whatever the market will bear is what they charge).

So it seems until our hospitals STOP cost shifting and burning $ on needlessly expensive machines - not
to mention drugs the pharma pimps push on doctors - and the govt steps in and says "no one is allowed to
spend more than $XXX on a machine, certain drug, or home healthcare device" then the wild wild west
of pricing will prevail and kill the goose that laid the golden egg.

Medicine is stupidly allowing the "machine" to push up its costs, in part because most of us 'grunt' docs are
too busy working on a conveyer belt of patients with problems to spend our 1-2 hrs of free time per night lobbying
congress with $ we don't have (the manufacturers, insurers, and pharma companies took it and our time too).

The only answer is collapse of the system (arguable it has), or revolutions (with all the bad things revolutions bring with them - seeds of their own destruction...)/

Just wish someone would regulate NON PHYSICIANS in the loops who CREATE these immense costs to begin with (cost of the scanners, ER EKG/ IVF/ other machines, Rx, etc). Notice i didn't blame the uninsured patient, because that isn't right morally to do, ever.

Peace.
Dr.Phil

The US healthcare system is a complete joke. I am an American expat living abroad just for this reason. What I find the most surprising is how brainwashed the average person is about the situation.

A couple years ago I was living in Canada and a friend of mine in Texas told me "I hope we don't get the type of heath care system they have in Canada." I told him the health care in Canada was great and better than I ever had in the US. He said "No that is not true. I saw a report on Fox News and they said the system there was inferior and the US system was far superior" (for whatever retarded reasons I don't remember).

WTF, I lived there and he still thought what Fox News had to offer was the truth.

good luck with that as you all go bankrupt...

Originally posted by Prevalent_Disease

Thats why, if I was very badly injured and they had to use expensive technologies to save me, Id rather die than be saved to a life of debt.

Maybe that's why they really want to save you ($$$$$$ Cha-ching), because they see a guppy that they can make into a serf and trap you into debt bondage for the rest of your life.

Just say no to the ambulance crew people.They are a recent invention. For years Americans did quite well without emergency rooms and ambulances.

The nice men in uniforms and white coats just want to take you to debtors prison.

reply to post by Ancient Champion


I don't think people want things handed to them...but they don't want to have to give an ARM and a LEG either.

reply to post by groingrinder


charity care should take care of your bill for you

From many of the posts in this thread, it would appear that people agree a change in business model is needed to bring more equality to the US medical system, but the fear of Socialism prevails. What systems would people be happy with?

Originally posted by DOADOA
so, ladies and gentlemen, the next time you hear a doctor say he became a doctor because he wanted to help people, do us all a favor and spit in their face followed by a backhand.

if you're going to make a living off of dying people, do it honestly and say it pays well. doctors should stop making themselves look like saints.

some are going to say," well, you came to them," of course i did, but i don't charge them every penny they're worth when they come into my shop.

I now live in Mexico with its warts and all. If a doctor here tells me he became a doctor because he wanted to help people then I believe him, here. In Mexico it certainly is not a career chosen for the money, though as a professional he lives nicer than the non-pros. Because he chose that career without money as the primary incentive I always feel I am getting more personalized and "caring" care than I had in the US.

Latin America turns out a lot of physicians because everybody needs them. There are skillful and less skillful doctors both sides of the border. Please, don't tell me a doctor is better than another because he is an American doctor, that would not be the reason. I know you understand that but many would argue otherwise.

reply to post by groingrinder


if you are unemployed you should have some free time. go to the hospital and offer to help them with something... just an idea...