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I spent 3 hours in the ER on the 15th. I just got my $11,000.00 bill in the mail.

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posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 12:22 PM
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reply to post by Sparky63
 


So you put yourself in the place of judging who should/should not receive healthcare?
Should we also judge who should/should not be breathing the air? Or who should have access to water? Or who should have access to seeds to grow their food?
Or...wait, sorry, we already do.




posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 12:23 PM
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reply to post by Bursuc
 


Great you go right ahead and take care of everyone else if you want. My issue is with me being FORCED into it. I help out as I am able with my friends and relatives. Everyone else can go hang because they damn sure aint been there for me. Thats the problem I have with this Universal healthcare monstrosity we are dealing with. Don't take more money out of my pocket and don't tell me I'm responsible for some irresponsible cretin who doesn't think they should have to pay for what they get. Personal responsibility.........try it sometime.



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 12:24 PM
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Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
reply to post by 2manyquestions
 


Sorry...but that story is completely out of my capacity for understanding. What is more surreal is that folks line up in support of that system.

I had my prostate cancer cured for $32. The price of parking twice at the hospital.



When you've been born into the system you have, I guess my story must seem absurd. Reading it back it does seem terrible compared to what the Canadians go through. Having lived in a communist country, my family has experienced healthcare we didn't have to pay for. Well, let me rephrase that.... it was paid into by every single citizen through taxes, and in return one was able to go to the doctor or hospital to get treated without having to foot the bill all at once. It's not that healthcare was free, it's that it was paid for in increments over one's entire working life-span. I guess people can choose to either pay higher taxes toward paying for "free" healthcare, or they can choose to pay that money all at once (or rather over a span of 10 months). It's difficult to say what yields better results. We had issues with the system when it came to the quality of care, though it didn't cost us one lump sum all at once. Here we don't have an issue with quality of care, but there's definitely the issue of cost. I'm sure it could easily be a long topic of it's own.



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 12:28 PM
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Originally posted by groingrinder
DO NOT JUMP THE GUN. I, in fact, have applied for AHCCCS. They start the application process upon admittance to the hospital and you finish it when you get home. I applied over the internet and faxed my relevant financial proof a day or two later. The fact is I did get the whopping bill from the hospital even though my AHCCCS application is pending. Climb down off the high horse dude. You have taken great liberties with my situation.

The fact still remains that the hospital expects $11,000.00 from somebody who spends 3 hours in the ER.


Jump the gun? Maybe you should have "jumped the gun" when you found yourself unemployed, uninsured and with an income of $50.00 a month... You know... Before you had to go to the hospital.

And now by your own admission you have applied for AHCCCS, and when it goes through your financial responsibility for the bill will be what? Nothing? A convenient omission... One that if disclosure would have been made in the OP would have saved thirteen pages and 260 posts...

So the truly relevant facts are that you could have applied for AHCCCS when your financial hardship first arose, but you didn't. This left you poorly prepared and financially liable should a medical need arise... And it did.

You didn't mention that you applied for AHCCCS during your ER stay, and you didn't mention what your financial responsibility would be once it was approved (and it will be). That is more than disingenuous.

Your situation is a product of your own shortcomings, immaturity, and to be honest, downright laziness... And to what end? To denigrate the healthcare and payer systems falsely! You are grandstanding and nothing more.

Personal responsibility people... This is a conspiracy site and all I see is people begging their respective governments to assume full and complete control of the single most precious thing each and every one of you possess... A pulse.

The irony is staggering. :shk:



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 12:28 PM
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reply to post by Sparky63
 


What about people injured rock climbing? Or people hurt racing NASCAR? Or sky-diving? Deep sea diving? All dangerous activities..

You already pay for a vast network of support services such as the coastguard, police and fire services which spend alot of their time rescuing or helping people who are hurt, trapped or otherwise caught up in a "preventable" situation.

Or is it only people on your list? Doing activities that you don't agree with? Just ebcause you don't like soemthing, it doesn't give you any right to pass judgement. I probably hate some of the things you do, but crack on chap, it's your life.



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 12:28 PM
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reply to post by endtimer
 


Nice trolling. Health care should be accessible to all and not just the well off. You may have not realised but you live in a society. If you are ill, you should be able to get the health care you need without being in debt for the rest of your life.



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 12:30 PM
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reply to post by RichardA
 


But hang on... Aren't people on your side of the fence saying that medical bills are so high ebcause they are paying for people who don't pay?

So, are you not already doing that which your making such a vociferous stand against, ie, paying for somebody else? The only difference being that it is in the hands of Corporations whose sole aim is profit, making the whole process that much more expensive for you than it should be...

Some seriously wonky ground your on there....



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 12:31 PM
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reply to post by Sparky63
 


So what would you want for all those people you mentioned, the drug addicts and smokers.

I would like you to describe exactly what it is that you do want for them.



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 12:32 PM
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reply to post by Mirthful Me
 


Personal responsiblity? Really?

HUMAN responsibility. UNIVERSAL responsibility...to each other.
Not the mighty dollar, which is what it all comes down to.

It's an evolved way of thinking.



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 12:33 PM
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Originally posted by Mirthful Me
Personal responsibility people...


Or, to put it more accurately, look after number 1 and sod everyone else!

Whatever happened to a sense of SOCIAL RESPONSIBILITY? Caring for your fellow man, working to better society? Or has it got to such a stage that, in the US at least, you'r only goal in life is to look after your own arse and sod everyone else?

EDIT: Your blaming the poor guy for firstly being unemployed and secondly having the front to get ill! I am not sure you could be any more callous.
edit on 29/12/10 by stumason because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 12:34 PM
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Originally posted by MessOnTheFED!
Show me someone who actually NEEDS to make $300,000 a year to live a good life...

Typical socialist 'spread the wealth' (steal from the productive) response.
People have a right to as much money as they can make.
You have no right to decide what is 'too much' and you don't have a right to cap a person's income.

Originally posted by LarryLove
care to back-up your statement about the quality of nationalised health care. In fact, there isn't an ounce of truth in what you have said

I speak the truth. That's why the Canadians are flocking over the border to the US for healthcare. They'd die in Canada while waiting for surgeries that they need. That's why the health care in France stinks .. 35 hour work work weeks, the 6 weeks of vacation on top of that, and standardized pay.

Originally posted by stumason
Flyersfan, haven't seen you around for a while! And I see you're still spotuing the usual trollop too!

I'm stating facts. Sorry you can't handle it.

Oh ... and as far as the US health care goes .. it's crappy, but it could be worse (like Canada or France).
My ATS thread - Death by Medical Mistake - Big Numbers

Originally posted by MessOnTheFED!
Then the greed would subside and the reason they became doctors in the first place (to actually help people in need) would come into play?

You assume too much. Some may be there to help people. But I'm sure many are there to make a good living. And there is nothing wrong with wanting to make a bunch of money. Be glad they are employed and paying taxes instead of sucking off the taxpayer.

Originally posted by seedofchucky
The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems

Yeah .. like that just makes me want to jump in line with the NWO system
the WHO is NWO. They want a one world everything. They have their agenda like everyone else.

Originally posted by stumason
I'm not a "Euro" nor do I advocate supporting Obama. I personally think the guy is a total douche with a major chip on his shoulder about the UK.

Well .... we agree on something. Except that I think that saying he has a 'major chip' about the UK ... that's putting it MILDLY! It's more than a major chip ... it's a freak'n boulder the size of the moon.

Originally posted by Mirthful Me
Personal responsibility people... This is a conspiracy site and all I see is people begging their respective governments to assume full and complete control of the single most precious thing each and every one of you possess... A pulse.




posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 12:34 PM
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Please forgive me if I ramble here...

First of all, Groingrinder, I hope you are feeling better. I've been oft injured and ill and I know how it (and the bills) go. I am presently in pretty good health, knock wood (I'm tapping my head here
)

Now. What I am wondering is - why are some of us in the US complaining about "socialized" health care? The taxpayer is already footing the bill in many ways. For instance - hospitals that receive federal funding must write off a certain percentage of people/bills if they wish to continue receiving federal funding. So that's your tax dollars at work.

Next - I see mention of how expensive medical school is for doctors and others. OK - I went to public university. That means it is (somewhat) tax payer funded. Sure you have to pay tuition, but it is much less than private school because it is taxpayer funded. At this school, the Chancellor ("President", "Big Boss") - was making $300,000 in salary. And we can imagine what other "perks". You, the taxpayer, are paying for this.

Now private universities/med schools, university connected hospitals, including religious affiliated ones, ALSO receive federal funding. Not only the school itself, but the students too. You sure can get and use federal student grants at these places. It won't pay for *all* of the tuition, but you sure can get it and use it there. That's YOUR tax money.

The tax money is already all over this "system" and going in and out of it in many inefficient ways. WHY does the Chancellor of a public school make $300K per year? And we can only imagine what some of these hospital execs make. And, even if it is a private hospital - remember - they ARE receiving federal funding.

Change of subject here - Groingrinder - I had an idea for you - if you are caring for your elderly father, he may qualify for a tax paid "caretaker" - and this certainly CAN BE a family member. "They" will pay you to do this. I am only vaguely aware of such programs, from when a friend of mine was sick. And, these differ by state. But look into it. These programs are another big toilet clog of a bureaucratic mess - so no one should ever be faulted for not knowing what any of it is. It's not like they advertise them on TV or anything.

Speaking of which - I read that half *or more* of drug company budget's go to advertising. That's what your paying for when you buy that pill. And so does the taxpayer, if they are paying. And of course lots of these costs go to highly paid biz people, the ad execs are probably off with hospital and uni execs at a conference in Bermuda, living it up and having a grand old time. I hope they raise a toast to us on the 19th hole.

Sorry if I've been a bit incoherent here, the whole subject is quite a confusing circle jerk of a mess though - who the hell can make head nor tail? BUT - it needs to be straightened out. The taxpayer is largely already paying for it.

Again, Groingrinder, I hope you (and all else here dealing with problems) will feel better soon.



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 12:35 PM
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Originally posted by Mirthful Me

Personal responsibility people... This is a conspiracy site and all I see is people begging their respective governments to assume full and complete control of the single most precious thing each and every one of you possess... A pulse.



And leaving the system in the hands of profiteers is any better? Is the status quo okay with you or should changes be made?



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 12:36 PM
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reply to post by groingrinder
 


I am not sure if someone mentioned this, and I don't feel like reading through 14 pages, sorry
.

You can go to your state's department of public aid/human services. Assuming you do only make 50 dollars a month you can apply for medical insurance and food benefits. They can also predate your coverage so that it covers the services you received but I think that may only have a month after services to do that (some states may be up to three months) but in any event you have to act fast, and bring a good book because you'll be sitting there all day
.

Depending on your diagnosis you may also qualify for disability, in which case you go to you local social security office. Just google it, and their website will tell you which office is concerned to be your local office.

Good luck, and wishing you health.



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 12:36 PM
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I recently injured my back at work. I went straight to the ER, was there for 5 hours. The Dr told me to take 5 days off work. Here in Washington we have the Department of Labor and Industry. They decide if your injury claim is valid and weather workmans comp should or should not cover medical expenses. So, I hurt my back at work, miss 5 days, and i just found out yesterday that L&I denied my claim. They said my "alleged injury" was not a result of work. I HURT MY BACK AT WORK!!. So now I am responsible for all medical bills and 3 physical therapy appointments that I was told I had to go to, (5000$+) despite the fact that L&I has taken 75 dollars out of every check for workmans comp insurance. Now I finally need it, and am completely justified in receiving it, however L&I somehow was able to deny my claim. I am literally breaking my back for my employer, and now I have to foot my own medical bills for my troubles.

One at a time stories like this are easy to dismiss. But when you see that it's happening to lots of people every day, it gets a little hard to swallow.

Believe me I feel your pain OP



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 12:37 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


Canadians flocking over the border for our healthcare?
We have friends in Canada...and Europe...and it seems that they're reportings highly oppose what you are stating.
But ok...



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 12:37 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by stumason
Flyersfan, haven't seen you around for a while! And I see you're still spotuing the usual trollop too!

I'm stating facts. Sorry you can't handle it.



Try again, FF. I know your tricks


If you're going to state "facts", then show them for the world to see. Merely saying so doesn't make it so.


Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by stumason
I'm not a "Euro" nor do I advocate supporting Obama. I personally think the guy is a total douche with a major chip on his shoulder about the UK.

Well .... we agree on something. Except that I think that saying he has a 'major chip' about the UK ... that's putting it MILDLY! It's more than a major chip ... it's a freak'n boulder the size of the moon.


We don't always disagree
In fact, on several topics we agree quite alot, but on this whole "socialised" medicine debate, I will stick to my guns and fight you out



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 12:38 PM
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Originally posted by groingrinder
I had an EKG and a urine test and a ultrasound. Plus some intravenous pain killer. My hands are shaking uncontrollably right now because I am so ticked off. MEDICINE SHOULD NOT COST THIS MUCH. I have lost my job and make $50.00 dollars a month. To be fair I must say that Banner Baywood discounted my bill by $8,000.00 so that my final bill is only $3,000.00, but I still cannot pay that when I only have fifty bucks a month coming in. I owe the Radiologist $460.00 dollars for their test and I still have not gotten the bill from the ER doctor who will bill separately. I will update this thread after I talk to the financial responsibility representative from Banner Baywood.


The more something is regulated by the government, the more expensive it is going to be. Welcome to the real world. Its wonderful how generous hospitals are in America and what great care they give, even to the poor. People who say "it should be free" are generally complete idiots. Food, water, shelter, and clothing are all more important than medical care. Therefore everything should be free? Ummm... yeah... pink unicorns and lollipops should be free too and I should have a free time machine. There are only two ways to get something for free. One way is to have it given to you, and the other way is *to steal it* you freaking dirty rotten thieves out there!



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 12:40 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


Thanks for clearing that up. Your facts are outstanding and would love to read about the issues in France and the Canadians who are flocking across the border for health services.

Are you for real?



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 12:41 PM
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Originally posted by stumason
Whatever happened to a sense of SOCIAL RESPONSIBILITY?

Ah yes ... the 'social responsibility' cry. Whatever happened to paying a doctor for his/her training? They work hard to learn their craft and so they deserve to be paid for it. And companies invest heavily into developing new technologies. They deserve to get paid for their time and effort. There is a 'social responsibility' to THEM ya' know .. they aren't slaves of the masses. It's free enterprise .. free market ... work hard and to get ahead.

The 'social responsibility' shout out is a subjective one .. it's a moral judgement. No one has a right to push their moral judgements onto others. No one has a right to push their subjective judgements on others. That's what you are doing. You are taking how you think - according to your personal moral code - and pushing it on others.

This is what the pro-choicers claim the pro-lifers do. Are you pro choice? Do you think the pro-lifers have a right to picket abortion clinics and try to change laws based on THEIR moral judgements? Prolifers think it's 'social responsibility' to save unborn children. Should the abortion laws in this country be changed to fit the moral judgements of pro-lifers? If not ... then you'd best look in the mirror because that's what you are suggesting by saying it is a 'social responsibility' to provide free health care.



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