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Pope's child porn 'normal' claim sparks outrage among victims

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posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 10:06 AM
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reply to post by LazerTron
 


No he hasn't actually. In that same speech, a few paragraphs earlier he takes full blame for the problem. Aside from the fact that the conviction of priest offenders is not the topic but rather what he said and meant in his speech on the 20th about child porn becoming more 'normal'.

Here is that part of his speech in context:


In order to resist these forces, we must turn our attention to their ideological foundations. In the 1970s, paedophilia was theorized as something fully in conformity with man and even with children. This, however, was part of a fundamental perversion of the concept of ethos. It was maintained – even within the realm of Catholic theology – that there is no such thing as evil in itself or good in itself. There is only a “better than” and a “worse than”. Nothing is good or bad in itself. Everything depends on the circumstances and on the end in view. Anything can be good or also bad, depending upon purposes and circumstances. Morality is replaced by a calculus of consequences, and in the process it ceases to exist. The effects of such theories are evident today. Against them, Pope John Paul II, in his 1993 Encyclical Letter Veritatis Splendor, indicated with prophetic force in the great rational tradition of Christian ethos the essential and permanent foundations of moral action. Today, attention must be focussed anew on this text as a path in the formation of conscience. It is our responsibility to make these criteria audible and intelligible once more for people today as paths of true humanity, in the context of our paramount concern for mankind.


He is saying in order to resist these forces we must understand them. He is saying here are the errors and they started even in Theological debate in the 1970's.

He previously though states why he is afraid child porn is becoming the norm. Again in context:


We are well aware of the particular gravity of this sin committed by priests and of our corresponding responsibility. But neither can we remain silent regarding the context of these times in which these events have come to light. There is a market in child pornography that seems in some way to be considered more and more normal by society. The psychological destruction of children, in which human persons are reduced to articles of merchandise, is a terrifying sign of the times. From Bishops of developing countries I hear again and again how sexual tourism threatens an entire generation and damages its freedom and its human dignity. The Book of Revelation includes among the great sins of Babylon – the symbol of the world’s great irreligious cities – the fact that it trades with bodies and souls and treats them as commodities (cf. Rev 18:13). In this context, the problem of drugs also rears its head, and with increasing force extends its octopus tentacles around the entire world – an eloquent expression of the tyranny of mammon which perverts mankind. No pleasure is ever enough, and the excess of deceiving intoxication becomes a violence that tears whole regions apart – and all this in the name of a fatal misunderstanding of freedom which actually undermines man’s freedom and ultimately destroys it.



edit on 23-12-2010 by GTORick because: Add another quote.




posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 10:16 AM
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Here is a link to the actual speech the Pope gave on the 20th. It is several pages long and the context from beginning to end is important.

Speech on 20th December by Pope Benedictus XVI



posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 10:23 AM
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Where in the speech does he say "I will cooperate fully with the world's police departments in the investigation, arrest and conviction of these child rapists".

Maybe I missed that part.

Obviously, if you give a speech about the horrors of child rape, and then spend the rest of your day protecting child rapists, then you didn't mean what you said in the speech.



posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 10:27 AM
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reply to post by LazerTron
 


Here is the link to answer your question. It is the law of the Universal Church.

Guide to Understanding Church Law in Regards to Sexual Abuse

However, for those that might not follow the link, Church law states the procedure for reporting crimes to civil authorities should be followed.
edit on 23-12-2010 by GTORick because: Better Description



posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 10:42 AM
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So, church law trumps the actual laws of a nation? I'm confused as to why actual crimes should be handled privately within the church. If my neighbor's wife gets murdered, can he just claim that his religion has placed him in charge of the investigation, and the cops should just leave them alone?



posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 10:59 AM
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reply to post by DimensionalDetective
 


Seriously? Some members on this board are actually coming to the Pope's defense??
Please educate yourselves a bit further and read this article:
www.conspiracyplanet.com...

The Pope is a evil. Period!



posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 11:22 AM
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Originally posted by GTORick
reply to post by HunkaHunka
 


*Edit: I missed a point and stand corrected.* However, with that being said, the Pope was talking about a theological debate and pointing out its error not its truth or validity as is claimed by limiting the quote of his speech to just that. I would love to see it sourced and correlated to actual Catholic Theology (i.e. Catechism of the Catholic Church etc.). I have never heard Catholic theology say that and if it was said the 'quote' is severely out of context from a limited scope and being applied in a general sense.
edit on 23-12-2010 by GTORick because: (no reason given)


Oh I firmly believe in the Romans 14:14 assertion that nothing is inherently good or evil, but to him who esteemeth it so, truly it is.

HOWEVER, that is not the way the Church traditionally handles issues... they don't apply that to Abortion... they don't apply that to Gay marriage, nor do they apply that to birth control either... they come down on the side of absolute morality....

So why then do they begin to deviate from that when it comes to pedophilia?

That's called hypocrisy... and when you are a papal hypocrite, then you are a heretic, and quite demonic.



posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 11:52 AM
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reply to post by LazerTron
 


They work simultaneously, not apart. It is not an either/or situation.



posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 12:24 PM
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Originally posted by TETRA.X
reply to post by DimensionalDetective
 


Seriously? Some members on this board are actually coming to the Pope's defense??
Please educate yourselves a bit further and read this article:
www.conspiracyplanet.com...

The Pope is a evil. Period!


I understand that its hip/cool to be an atheist nowadys, and i totally agree with it, im one of those "i cannot believe in it unless i see it" type of people. I bet that if instead of atheism it was called The Rainbow Squad or Penis Lovers it wouldnt be as popular as it is today.
But heres the thing, you could fly to rome s**t in the popes cheerios spit in his face and call his mother a dog, and he would still love you and say a prayer for you.

They arent the evil ones, we are



posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 12:32 PM
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reply to post by Mathoryn
 


It's actually not hip and cool IMO to be an atheist and I am not an atheist. I would say the exact same thing regarding the mullahs and rabbis who rape/molest children. Case closed. This is NOT a discussion about religion, but rather religious figures who on the surface are servants of God and who are in fact evil.



posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 12:44 PM
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Wow you guys are seriously going to talk about this like this comes as a surprise to ANYONE!!!??? Kiddy porn in the religious Catholic circles has been here since the beginning of time.... Sick sick sick MF ers....



posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 12:48 PM
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Final straw, his head going to blow the f**k up. In rome, several bombs were found in embassies, why? Because this guy is pope.

A CHILD DIDDLER IS THE F**KING POPE.

His days are numbered, if someone doesnt take him out, i will, taking the innocence of a child is a horrible immoral thing, and hes the pope? well not for long, this guy is toast, i dont care who knows it. Hes a deadman, there is a bounty on his head.

EDIT: if i misunderstood and hes trying to end it by understanding it, then get women more involved in the church, a biological need, so women being there can consent to whatever, and thus no kids will be diddled, and if they are, then that person desevres death.
edit on 23-12-2010 by Anthony1138 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 12:53 PM
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Oh the Pope never fails to get the masses in the Christmas spirit does he?

What an idiot.

ETA: Could they have picked a creepier picture? Urgh!
edit on 23/12/2010 by Ayana because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 12:55 PM
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reply to post by MikeboydUS
 


Errr yes I did read that article.. What I found even more interesting is that he seems to reject the notion of absolute evil. Does this mean Satan isn't too bad??? Considering that previous popes have always steered away from theological discussions of hot topics like child abuse I wonder why he chose to open up that can of worms??

Oh I get it He is trying to wriggle regarding child abuse claims... Well he failed. I think this will haunt him for a while.

Is it me or is he the creepiest pope ever??



posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 01:14 PM
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If the church is supposed to work 'with" law enforcement, then why aren't they? Why have they protected child molesters and enabled them to continue molesting hundreds of other children?

And regarding atheism...it's not that it's "cool" to be an atheist. We are just living in a time where more and more information about the world is being learned...which is slowly eliminating superstitions and fairy tales.



posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 01:34 PM
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reply to post by DimensionalDetective
 


S&F.

I'm not surprised that Pope Palpatine would come up with something like this.

Is there a rule in the Catholic church that all popes must be past it, or what?



posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 01:58 PM
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his comments...................................are evil
the pope has crossed a line
GMO food is ok by the vatacan.................evil to a huge degree
ILLEGAL child porn is ok by the pope..................so evil i think the pope is satan
the church has been taken over by satanists
god help us all

xploder



posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 02:13 PM
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Originally posted by DimensionalDetective


What the?

Is this some sort of creepy, bizzare PR statement this guy decided to give to cover his underlings behinds?

In WHAT society was child pornography considered 'normal', as he seems to be fantasizing about?

Almost sounds as if this is a strange attempt to get his 'followers' to just be passive and accept the perversions taking place within this trouble-ridden organization.

This is really a creepy development. Almost like the true colors are shining through...

www.belfasttelegr aph.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)


Child abuse/sacrifice is indeed normal in luciferian/pagan worship.

Vatican are exactly that, and have been infiltrated for a long time now.
edit on 23/12/10 by Romekje because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 02:15 PM
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reply to post by TETRA.X
 


I looked at your article to 'educate' myself. It mentins a very bad case of sexual abuse by a priest. It then says that at that time, that Cardinal Ratinzger was head of the CDF. It fails to link the two together. While generally he might have known about sexual abuse taking place in individual cases such as the one in the article he had to first know about it. If you are implying like the article, he covered it up. That was not always the case. Secondly, even if he wanted to take action, he had authority to act but could have been stopped by the previous two Popes.

Don't misunderstand me. What took place is a crime that should be punished. I find more fault lies at the feet of the bishop of each diocese. I think they are far more culpable than the Pope. There were a lot of failures and things covered up along the line and not just by the Church.

The Catholic Church is targeted right now because of the abuse. The abusers and the people who helped directly cover it up should be punished. However, while everyone is busy flogging the Catholic Church for this issue it is still being covered up as a whole both in other large institutions and organizations. For example, Carl Panzram, one of America's most nefarious serial killers was abused in both state and Protestant institutions.

Biography of Carl Panzram

Note the serial abuser profile below from The Crime Library:

Child Abuser Profile


The National Center for Victims of Crime offers statistics that show that incidences of sexual assaults against children have risen when compared with previous decades, and that children were increasingly kidnapped by family acquaintances (27%) and strangers (24%) instead of close relatives. Yet more than 90% of sex offenders are never sentenced, in part because their victims are people within their circles — usually family members — and these children are pressured with threat or shame not to press charges. The perpetrators are then free to re-offend, and it's most likely that they will.


Clearly, the statistics show sex offenders of children are usually never brought to justice. Family and people within their circles cover up these crimes yet, the only cry for justice concerning this is pointed at the Catholic Church.

Lately, I have seen in a variety of threads statements like:

"People won't do anything until it affects them."
"Why isn't anyone doing anything?"
"Who's going to stop this?"
"People don't care as long as the NFL and the Kardashians are on TV."

Those statements are very telling. So far in this topic (up to my typing this) there have been no posts about the victims or caring for them. I would venture a guess that few people who have posted have lifted a finger, donated a dollar, went to a support group or even just listened one on one with a victim. Like the above quotes, actions speak loudr than words. Some of the same people asking for blood do not give a damn about the victims. They don't care at all about the victims. I would venture a guess that most people couldn't name one victim without a Google search. Of course there are exceptions and I am one of them. As you all probably guessed I am Catholic, I worked within the Church to try to stop this (years of fighting and another thread perhaps in the future) and have tried to help the victims. How many of you have actually done anything in any situation to stop child abuse? My point is this; If you are not doing this for the victims (denoted by their lack of help for past victims or even thought) and you are not Catholic why the passionate hatred? It is not for the children/victims as mentioned before. Maybe we should call a spade a spade and instead of using child abuse as a platform to attack the Church more people should just be honest and say they are attacking Catholicism because they hate it.

*Note* - The paragraph below is NOT my personal opinion. If you are sensitive to the topic of homosexuality then please don't read it. I am making a point.

The other issue with the abuse that is not brought up is that generally speaking the victims are male and the abusers are male. This is the elephant in the room. Especially in the case of abuse in the Catholic Church it seems it is a homosexual act. It also seems most people are willing and very happy to paint the entire Catholic religion, priests, bishops, cardinals, basic tenants of Catholicism and even everyday Catholics as evil because of the abuse. If because of the sins of a few we are willing to condemn a whole group and the abuse is generally homosexual, why don't we condemn homosexuals as a group as evil? There is anecdotal evidence such as NAMBLA to suggest homosexual males are more likely to be sexually attracted to children. Man/boy homosexuality was practiced in the Roman Empire. In fact, maybe everyone has been attacking the wrong group. The bigger picture might be it is not religion but homosexuality and any organization with children is just a means to access children.

Note: I am making a point. This is NOT my opinion, feelings or viewpoint.

If you were offended by my last paragraph, I apologize in advance. However, if you were offended then you now have a bit of the feeling Catholics feel when the Church is attacked. Child abuse is not solely a Catholic problem nor is the cover up of child abuse on a small, medium or large scale. The abusers should be brought to justice. However, to condemn all of Catholicism as a group is wrong and to condemn the Pope speaking out about abuse is wrong.



posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 02:20 PM
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reply to post by GTORick
 


From my point of view the reason they always choose boys is because pagan and luciferian doctrine dictates that the best sacrificial children are boys of under 10.



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