'I didn't think of Iraqis as humans,' says U.S. soldier who raped 14-year-old girl before killing

reply to post by Bun-G


No. It's what war does to you. If you want to know the fastest way to being sub human, it's called war.

The military doesn't brainwash in the method most are thinking of. The military attempts to desensitize you to killing. They have you shoot at man shaped targets that look similar to people. You learn to fight with your hands, and weapons.. Similar to most police departments. Your taught to never back down from a fight. This does what it is suppossed to do and makes people more aggressive. This type of training fails to work on some people. I was never taught to hate iraqis or view them as sub human. I was though taught to never trust them, which is just good advice in any situation. Firefights, losing fellow soldiers, see them or yourself hurt desensitizes alot more than any training they put you through.

I was in country at the same time, with a different 101st brigade. This guy and his accomplices are criminals. He was most likely a criminal before service, and his training didn't change that. This is a despicable crime that he should recieve the harshest punishment for. The guys I served with NEVER did anything like this. When this story broke we were all very angry at him and his Company leadership. It tarnished our reputation, and made us look like a mongrel horde, when the exact opposite was true of most of us doing our best to help the
Iraqis.

Originally posted by Crutchley29
reply to post by Zamini

 

Served 8 years in the British Army as part of 2 Para 16th AA Brigade, was in Helmand in 08 and obviously it's you who needs to learn a thing or too about our training, whether that be me referring to my fellow soldiers in the British Army or coalition forces you are not indoctrinated as such so that you learn not to value human life to the extent displayed in this article.

You are trained to confront the enemy, to see him as a target and nothing more, the process behind this does not allow time for you to acknowledge him as a fellow human, he has a weapon, you have a weapon and you shoot or be shot, however...a large part of our work was humanitarian, we were sent as both soldiers and peace keepers, to support the local populace with whatever support they required, whether this be utility or logistical and as such we learn to differentiate our roles.

This kind of activity is not part of what we do, military training only seeks to sharpen the mind and the abilities of the soldier, if a fellow already has psychological flaws then these are perhaps compounded but not encouraged, If he was not serving he would have likely indulged in the same sort of behavior as a civvy.

I can not speak for the soldier in questions, nor his regiment or operations but I feel i do speak for the larger part of what encompasses the majority of coalition when i say that serving as a soldier brings out the best in a person and any activity conducted by a small group or individuals should not undermine the work that we do, nor the reputation of the whole, he deserves all he receives and no excuses are warranted.

To you and the guy from Holland: If you've been trained in a European army, your training, from what I understand, is very different from a US soldier. Here they really turn them into killing machines... that's why so many of the vets coming home are completely whacked out and start abusing the wife and kids or kill someone.

reply to post by sylvie


So many of us are abusers, huh? Whats the percentage of us are compared to civilians? You have a study to back that up, or is it an opinion? I know of one guy I served with that is in prison for that now, but he is the only one I know of.

Originally posted by Zamini
reply to post by sapien82

 

American soldiers are certainly not taught to dehumanize civilians in any way.

Your post is so insulting to the millions of CIVILIANS who have lost their life to an illegal war. Not just in Iraq but in MANY wars. Go rinse your mouth with soap.

Hey If you can find me any training manual currently in use by the US military , airforce, navy or army , including the marines that specifically shows how to dehumanize civilians in occupied territory then I will willing wash out my mouth with soap on video for you and upload it to youtube!

I think you will be insulting alot of people in the military by saying they are trained to harass civilians.

I totally appreciate that millions of civilians across history have died due to illegal wars and war in general.
I still do not believe that the US military specifically train their armed services to " dehumanize" civilians in any way. Considering as it is against UN rules of war to harm innocent civilians.
I also appreciate there are certainly rogue elements within military outfits across the world that go against every code of honour they have been taught and do inhumane things to humans during armed conflicts.

However soliders are unfortunately victims in this too , they suffer mental damage for sometimes doing things that no one else has chosen to do . For instance when war is legal , they often have to suffer combat stress in order to protect us.

The subject is incredibly complex and difficult to approach and to find a resolution to the problem.
what we really need to do is educate our children so that we ensure that less and less of our children enlist in the armed forces so that one day humans can do away with armed conflict.

reply to post by sapien82




GO RINSE YOUR MOUTH.

And this is not the only one. There are videos on the internet that show instruction videos being shown to military personnel with words flashing across the screen. I can't find it right now but you can if you look for it. If that does not scream dehumanizing and attempted brainwashing I don't know what does.

That cadence is no different than the dark humor used by fire departments, emergency medical services, and other healthcare workers. Your put in impossible situations, and can't have humor as a release about it?
I've sung that same cadence many many times. Did I spray a playground with my rifle? Nope. He is grasping at straws to justify his CO status.

Originally posted by ofhumandescent
reply to post by forklift

 

Forklift...............good post

Anyone that thinks this war is justified needs to watch this video.

You are all being lied to just like the German People were lied to by Hitler.............god I'm so tired of trying to wake you zombies up.

War is wrong period.

Murder is wrong.

War is murder.

Again, they did not come over here...........we went over there after a false flag operation manipulated us into fear.

People just can't seem to grasp the extent to which they are being manipulated by our corrupt governments.

Now, the video above is over one hour long.

It is being taken down and put back up here in America so I suggest you at least copy it onto your video library and if you have a attention span of more than 15 minutes please try to watch it.

I completely agree with you. If we don't get our sh** together soon, mankind will wipe itself out in its asinine rush of violence, greed, and hatred. I truly hope that consciousness shift that some 2012ers are talking about will come to pass and everyone who's still in the old dog-eat-dog mindset will just be gone. Maybe not likely, but one can always dream.

reply to post by rakkasansct


Chopping away at a womens market and spraying guns in a childrens playground are all jokes to you huh? You are so ignorant it should hurt your head. I have knowledge on special ops soldiers who will never deny their wrongdoings, yet you, who joined the army because of some computer games, is claiming you knowitall and these are just JOKES? They should have sent you to school in the military, ALAS, that would be against their own purpose as they DO NOT WANT aware soldiers. Are you aware? No? Oh alright, you can serve another term in the military and make money killing people and pretending you're helping them.

Originally posted by Zamini
reply to post by rakkasansct

 

Chopping away at a womens market and spraying guns in a childrens playground are all jokes to you huh? You are so ignorant it should hurt your head. I have knowledge on special ops soldiers who will never deny their wrongdoings, yet you, who joined the army because of some computer games, is claiming you knowitall and these are just JOKES? They should have sent you to school in the military, ALAS, that would be against their own purpose as they DO NOT WANT aware soldiers. Are you aware? No? Oh alright, you can serve another term in the military and make money killing people and pretending you're helping them.

Hmm you want to speak of ignorance? Never played a computer game untill after I was in the Army. Grew up poor, on a farm. The Army provided me with the oppurtunity to travel the world, and go to school. I went to school on the GI Bill after the end of my service.
So just by going to school that makes one aware? Hmm always thought life experiences and critical thinking made one aware. Did I say I killed anyone? OH oh your just ASSUMING I did because I was in country. Care to know how many hours of my life were spent in geneva convention, and rules of engagement training? Those classes telling me not chop women and shoot up playgrounds. The daily training on ROE before patrol in country? But those don't fit into in your stereotype so you will most likely ignore it. Maybe before you blatantly and falsely accuse me of ignorance. You should step back look at yourself, and look at both sides of this issue.

reply to post by rakkasansct

The Army provided me with the oppurtunity to travel the world, and go to school. I went to school on the GI Bill after the end of my service.

Thanks for proving a point I have been making in several threads regarding the military. You are not a soldier, you are a mercenary. And no, going to school does not make one aware but it sure as hell can show you how much propaganda you are fed, that in turn, makes one aware. Critical thinking? Please...you were swayed off the place you lived because of fantasy stories, be honest, what the hell did you know about the world when you lived at the farm? What did you know and understand about the policies and forces behind your military? Nothing right? You just looked at what they had to offer you. Congratulations.

I served in the U.S. Army from '84 to '88. Did my basic and AIT in Fort Benning GA. Did my time in Baumholder Germany(sp?) I was an ammunition specialist in the infantry, but I didn't see any action. I wasn't a part of any war. Regardless, they train you for war. That's your job. That's what you're there for. They teach you how to kill people with a variety of weapons quickly and effectively, including your bare hands. They don't teach you how to talk to the enemy. It's war, not a debate.

Waking up every day was like going to work for me. At the end of the day, we drank some beer. played pool and just kind of hung out. I can't relate, but I can imagine what war time is like. Work never ends. You're always on your guard. You don't just "hang out" at the end of the day. But the point is that you still have your brothers in arms beside you to help keep the balance. The balance between the inhumane, businesslike war side, and the side that has a family back home. A family that didn't teach you how to kill with your eyes closed.

This guy lost his balance somewhere along the way. I feel sorry for him, and the family in Iraq that he terrorized and killed. I also feel sorry for his family back home.

There are many different types of casualties of war, and this is one them.

This is an act of a monster and the war does twist the human mind. To be surrounded by killing and dying children is a disgraceful sight to see. Human beings are animals but we are animals with guidelines and rules so that we aren't like our primate cousins who fight for no reason. We as people shouldn't have to be manipulate and molded into mindless killing machines where our one goal in life is to be better then another group of people. To rape AND kill a young woman is just one of the many evils of our so called "great" country.

reply to post by MarineSniper12Kills

"As to mt, I didn't mean to respond to your post, I do apologize, I am still new at ats lol."

No worries MS12K, I was wandering, cause I think we have about the same view of the situation. With both of us having daughters it's no doubt we're sensitive to the topic. I really would love to have a few minutes alone with this POS.

Ok people people everyone needs to calm down & breathe. The intent of this post was to bring this to light, not to tar the majority of the military with the same brush as this guy.

Although it doesnt excuse his squadran / regement who allowed this to happen & keep it hushed up, & as per a previous poster put, this isn't a one off thing, by all means it doesnt happen regularly but it happens in every war.

Also with regards to my first post on the subject, maybe brainwashed is to strong a word, but regardless what half of these vets are saying, they are conditioned to dehumanize the enemy, & when you've been in a country as long as Iraq & afganistan they will start to see civvies as enemy's as the majority of the population (Iraq mostly) want America & the UN out of there country.

Also my previous post was not aimed at American's as a whole but mostly towards the poster I was responding to - his arrogance is all thats wrong with your country - I have no nationalistic / political ect ect agenda's, this is all my opinion & you will find it's shared by a large preporsuation (sic) of the wold outside north america

reply to post by Zamini


There is a another terrible War going on and it is right here on ATS on this thread.!! There is so much seething hatred from some of the members here. And their hatred of the U.S. and other Countries is obvious. The name calling and insults are horrendous. What happened to this poor girl and her family is beyond horrendous. This child's life was precious and it is sad that she will never get to live it.It wasn't just that soldier that took it, it was also the powers behind the war. Unfortunately "Wars and Rumors of Wars" will always be around. At this time in human development ,I don't see that changing any time soon. and I don't see the compassion for one and all coming any time soon either. Our circle of whom we love is very small. How many of us are crying right now for a child who is being beaten,raped and murdered at this very moment.? How many of us are crying now for the 14 year old?? We don't have the ability to love everyone and neither do we think everyday of the horrors that are happening all around us.
It is not just war where all these atrocities are happening. Every day day in civilian life, rape and murder is going on all over the world and when you think about these things, it will makes you cry.
Yes..there has always been a purpose behind wars by those in power. And again, many innocent victims pay the price.. their life for this greed. There is much anger!

This is a puppet gone too far. Euthanize his ass.

reply to post by Bun-G


I saw this a few days ago on netflix and was thinking how to put it up. Luckily, its on youtube, 7 parts.

In 1972 a documentary was filmed depicting the atrocities of the vietnam war where GI vets were brainwashed to dehumanize the people. They hold a press conference explaining everything that was done. Be forewarned, very graphic and surreal.

So here we are, 21st century and it seems nothing has changed. War is hell.

Winter Soldier

reply to post by Bun-G

He always wanted to have sex with a child,the war had nothing to do with it,he was a petifier way before the war,hell jhas a good place for him,i dont think god will allow him into heavon.

reply to post by Zamini
What this soldier did to this 14 year old and her family was not, in my opinion, the result of brainwashing. He may have snapped for any number of reasons. Here are just a few:

1. Having to deal with the constant stress of being in a "switched on" mode. Your on alert because you can't tell the combatants from the civilians. Imagine doing that your whole time in country. It takes a toll on some people.

2. Seeing your fellow soldiers and friends getting killed.

3. Being in combat. By its very nature this is a high stress situation. When you have bullets flying all around you, it can change your way of thinking about things.

What he did was wrong, period! None of us were there to even remotely know what was going through his head. Now he has time to think about the consequences of his actions.