Depression is NOT a Real Disorder

Originally posted by NoHierarchy
Real chronic depression is NOT a choice... it's real and you're not pretending, it's almost this external thing from who you are, and like a cold/flu, it makes it hard to remember what it was like to be well.

Not so fast.

While I won't debate the veracity of your statement because
I feel not only is depression real but it could also come at you without your cognition...

The thing I want these people who suffer from whatever is that
-YOU can choose to react in a positive way to your depression...
-YOU can choose to focus and think about positive things.
-YOU always have a choice, whether or not you're able to preempt depression:

YOU can kick its ass whenever it pops up.
I never hear people tell me, "I'm so depressed, I won't go to the bathroom."

Why is that?

Chemicals, no chemicals...if I am a biological computer it is as if the current is interrupted or surging.

Blame that crazy moon.

Now that I mention it, it is odd.

Another planet. Much like a stalker... our moon.




Maybe somebody just fell off a toggle switch?

Originally posted by Chinesis

Originally posted by NoHierarchy
Real chronic depression is NOT a choice... it's real and you're not pretending, it's almost this external thing from who you are, and like a cold/flu, it makes it hard to remember what it was like to be well.

Not so fast.

While I won't debate the veracity of your statement because
I feel not only is depression real but it could also come at you without your cognition...

The thing I want these people who suffer from whatever is that
-YOU can choose to react in a positive way to your depression...
-YOU can choose to focus and think about positive things.
-YOU always have a choice, whether or not you're able to preempt depression:

YOU can kick its ass whenever it pops up.
I never hear people tell me, "I'm so depressed, I won't go to the bathroom."

Why is that?

I'm not saying you can't make efforts to be positive or get stuff done in your life. However, the difference between someone with depression and a mentally healthy person is the level of emotional well-being and motivation. With depression you just sort of go through the motions because you know you have to, and because you fear consequences of not doing it. Also, everybody experiences different levels of depression and at different times. There's always SOME level of positive feelings and motivation as well... but depression tends to poison those waters and suck the color out of life. Then it becomes a kind of domino effect, where no matter how hard you try, the world still seems darker, colder, less fulfilling... sounds emo/goth, but it's something that's existed long before modern subcultures could latch onto it. Of course, there are probably a myriad of reasons for depression... it's ALWAYS chemical/psychological, but the different factors of degree, cause, chronic vs. situational, triggers, frequency, etc. etc. is what makes each case different I'm sure. What I'm saying, though, is that simply being positive doesn't usually kill the depressed feeling nor the lessened outlook on life and the world... it may help but it's not always a cure, nor is it remotely easy to reverse.

Let's Please Remember Our Manners

Originally posted by Chinesis
I also don't feel a person with any disorder gets a free pass to passively-aggressively
denigrate someone else's character or create some sort of higher place only they can sit
on and point the finger at everyone else who may disagree with them...

This also applies to you, so kindly cease and desist.

You are welcome to share your opinions about depression if you want to, and disagree with others about their opinions of depression, but your aggressive browbeating and ad hominem attacks toward other members constitute trolling and will cease immediately.

Many ATSers have offered their own personal testimonies and opinions regarding depression in this thread, including yourself. Unfortunately, that tends to inject people personally into the discussion, which then leads to confusion regarding appropriate commentary.

Again, you are quite welcome to share your personal opinions on the topic, but no more abuse directed toward other members will be tolerated.

Thanks for your understanding and cooperation.

Originally posted by Chinesis
And there ^^^^ is your true intent.

My only true intent in this entire thread was to call out and educate those who claim depression is not a real disorder - hence the title. Although it quickly became a thread where people could feel comfortable sharing their own personal struggles with depression (as well as other mental disorders such as anxiety and PTSD), that was and has remained my only true intent.

The reason I am refusing to address your posts is because - if we are being honest with one another - I don't like the tone in which you post. If this were a political discussion and we were merely debating our opinions, that would be one thing. But - for obvious reasons - this is a bit more personal than political opinions, and thus requires a lot more restraint to avoid it erupting into a full blown argument.

I am not looking for attention. I am not looking for sympathy. I am not claiming my depression is any more severe than someone else's. I am not claiming my depression is incurable. Unfortunately these are incorrect assumptions you have made simply because I have chosen to ignore the vast majority of your posts.

As Modern Americana mentioned, you come off as antagonizing. Perhaps this isn't your intention - only you know that for sure. But that is how it sounds. And as long as I perceive it that way - whether my perception is right or wrong - I am going to avoid responding to it, because if I did, what I say would probably get me some nice little red warning boxes over there to the left.

At the end of the day, you're free to deliver your message in what ever way you wish. But you have to realize that if I don't like how you're delivering it, I'm free to ignore it. That's what I chose to do.

Originally posted by NoHierarchy
I'm not saying you can't make efforts to be positive or get stuff done in your life. However, the difference between someone with depression and a mentally healthy person is the level of emotional well-being and motivation

A mentally healthy person in all fairness hasn't a definition.
Who defines the construct of a "healthy person?"
Your perception of someone else?
My perception of someone else?
Or perhaps a society and the culmination of how this society was taught how to think, perceive and act?

What causes and/or fuels things like
-an emotional well being
-motivation?

I'm glad you brought this up...When you say:

Originally posted by NoHierarchyWith depression you just sort of go through the motions because you know you have to, and because you fear consequences of not doing it.

You know you have to? Really?
If the person convinces themselves that either one component, or all of them are
motions they feel they they don't have to do -will they do them?
-Will they have an incentive to?
-Will they have a motivation to? (No and no)

They did make the choice to get out of bed, possibly shower and get dressed.
They didn't *HAVE* to, they chose to. Is this not a true testament to their CHOICE
and the aforementioned negotiation example? (I think it's yes)

^^^This is what I have been trying to say...It comes down to choices that are
based on negotiating or bargaining...

What if I have depression but I make a different choice benign to another with depression.
What does this mean? That I don't have it? Or that I have a stronger mind? (No)

It comes down to choices which are so basic in nature they are often overlooked as solutions.

Originally posted by NoHierarchy... but depression tends to poison those waters and suck the color out of life. Then it becomes a kind of domino effect, where no matter how hard you try, the world still seems darker, colder, less fulfilling... sounds emo/goth, but it's something that's existed long before modern subcultures could latch onto it.

See, depression isn't a gunshot wound to the heart.
Nor is it a decapitation of a person's head. -Death is imminent, without question.

Depression whether the basis for this stems from a chemical or psychological origin
won't matter because the person *feels* it. -It is here- What to do?

The world only becomes a domino effect IF one allows it.
The beauty of life is that IT can be changed.
If the first Domino starts to fall...chances are it will hit the next one in place...right?

However...IF you stop the process by removing the other domino's what happens?
^^^This is entirely possible if the person believes it, just as they believe they are depressed...
They can create change that will make them feel happiness, and appreciation.

Originally posted by NoHierarchyOf course, there are probably a myriad of reasons for depression... it's ALWAYS chemical/psychological, but the different factors of degree, cause, chronic vs. situational, triggers, frequency, etc. etc. is what makes each case different I'm sure. What I'm saying, though, is that simply being positive doesn't usually kill the depressed feeling nor the lessened outlook on life and the world... it may help but it's not always a cure, nor is it remotely easy to reverse.

I don't think there is a cure when a person's mind is closed off to the possibility of the cure...(make sense?)
My mind while limitless in nature is indeed limited by my choices I've chosen to decide upon.

Help and support is what this is all about.
Fellowship, even friendship, companionship are all vessels depressed people can and should
try to rely on. They are never truly alone, alone enough to harm themselves or end their life definitively.

While I agree with most of what you've said here think about this:
You say there's not always a cure.
And then you say it is NOT remotely easy to reverse.


(1) Do you see what you are doing?
(2) Can you do the math real quick and wonder why the OP and Thicheaded both like what you have to say?
(3) Can you make the connection that while I'm not very smart...*I* chose to say:

-There is a cure
-It is easy to reverse...and while I chose to say this...a change manifested from inside-outward.


Stating something, some information you've attained through studying does not make it so.
While you can say you are depressed, (because you feel it) what caused it?
Can you pinpoint it? Can you isolate it? I am not calling you a liar here, I am
trying to offer a different perspective.


The mind is more powerful than most people can ever possibly fathom.

Originally posted by Majic
Let's Please Remember Our Manners

Originally posted by Chinesis
I also don't feel a person with any disorder gets a free pass to passively-aggressively
denigrate someone else's character or create some sort of higher place only they can sit
on and point the finger at everyone else who may disagree with them...

This also applies to you, so kindly cease and desist.

You are welcome to share your opinions about depression if you want to, and disagree with others about their opinions of depression, but your aggressive browbeating and ad hominem attacks toward other members constitute trolling and will cease immediately.

Many ATSers have offered their own personal testimonies and opinions regarding depression in this thread, including yourself. Unfortunately, that tends to inject people personally into the discussion, which then leads to confusion regarding appropriate commentary.

Again, you are quite welcome to share your personal opinions on the topic, but no more abuse directed toward other members will be tolerated.

Thanks for your understanding and cooperation.

I'm curious how many people alerted you to my "trolling?" (rhetorical I guess)
For the record all of my posts came out of compassion and I'm keenly
aware of my empathic nature as does everyone who meets me.

Asking someone to face their issues by being responsible and held
accountable for their actions does NOT constitute:
-browbeating, trolling, and/or abuse.


However you're the boss and this isn't my forum.
I will abide by the rules I agreed to follow when I signed up for this site...

If you are going to moderate with assertion as well as fairness I don't understand
why I'm the only one to whom you responded to?

I'm governed by self control, an open mind and tact above all.
The problem (in my personal opinion) as you've mentioned is:

personal opinion.

Should I be allowed to voice my opinion without having someone call me
a liar and a fraud?

Calling someone a liar is a common law crime and this
is a punishable offense.

I've never called anyone a liar...I've only challenged them to
assert themselves based on the ideal their mind has the power to change their perceptions.



You've made yourself clear.
PetrolCoin has made it clear he does not want me to talk to him.
I will honour this and rectify my mistake of doing so.

Quiet Assertion

Originally posted by Chinesis
If you are going to moderate with assertion as well as fairness I don't understand
why I'm the only one to whom you responded to?

Although no points have been deducted in this case (and I have no plans to), this may prove helpful: Why Me?

Meanwhile, one thing we both have in common at this point is that we're not on topic, so if you have any further questions, please feel free to send me a U2U, and I'll try not to intervene any more than necessary.

Originally posted by PETROLCOIN

Originally posted by Chinesis
And there ^^^^ is your true intent.

My only true intent in this entire thread was to call out and educate those who claim depression is not a real disorder - hence the title. Although it quickly became a thread where people could feel comfortable sharing their own personal struggles with depression (as well as other mental disorders such as anxiety and PTSD), that was and has remained my only true intent.

The reason I am refusing to address your posts is because - if we are being honest with one another - I don't like the tone in which you post. If this were a political discussion and we were merely debating our opinions, that would be one thing. But - for obvious reasons - this is a bit more personal than political opinions, and thus requires a lot more restraint to avoid it erupting into a full blown argument.

I am not looking for attention. I am not looking for sympathy. I am not claiming my depression is any more severe than someone else's. I am not claiming my depression is incurable. Unfortunately these are incorrect assumptions you have made simply because I have chosen to ignore the vast majority of your posts.

As Modern Americana mentioned, you come off as antagonizing. Perhaps this isn't your intention - only you know that for sure. But that is how it sounds. And as long as I perceive it that way - whether my perception is right or wrong - I am going to avoid responding to it, because if I did, what I say would probably get me some nice little red warning boxes over there to the left.

At the end of the day, you're free to deliver your message in what ever way you wish. But you have to realize that if I don't like how you're delivering it, I'm free to ignore it. That's what I chose to do.

Thank you for addressing me in this fashion, sincerely.
I completely understand where you're coming from here.
I do appreciate this and the weight of your message hits home.
I'm sure it hurt my feelings when you chose to ignore, only because you
were hurting I felt I could help...this was my mistake for taking it
upon myself and exerting my unneeded advice upon you.

I hope you find whatever it is you are looking for or want.

Originally posted by Chinesis

Originally posted by NoHierarchy
I'm not saying you can't make efforts to be positive or get stuff done in your life. However, the difference between someone with depression and a mentally healthy person is the level of emotional well-being and motivation

A mentally healthy person in all fairness hasn't a definition.
Who defines the construct of a "healthy person?"
Your perception of someone else?
My perception of someone else?
Or perhaps a society and the culmination of how this society was taught how to think, perceive and act?

What causes and/or fuels things like
-an emotional well being
-motivation?

I'm glad you brought this up...When you say:

Originally posted by NoHierarchyWith depression you just sort of go through the motions because you know you have to, and because you fear consequences of not doing it.

You know you have to? Really?
If the person convinces themselves that either one component, or all of them are
motions they feel they they don't have to do -will they do them?
-Will they have an incentive to?
-Will they have a motivation to? (No and no)

They did make the choice to get out of bed, possibly shower and get dressed.
They didn't *HAVE* to, they chose to. Is this not a true testament to their CHOICE
and the aforementioned negotiation example? (I think it's yes)

^^^This is what I have been trying to say...It comes down to choices that are
based on negotiating or bargaining...

What if I have depression but I make a different choice benign to another with depression.
What does this mean? That I don't have it? Or that I have a stronger mind? (No)

It comes down to choices which are so basic in nature they are often overlooked as solutions.

Originally posted by NoHierarchy... but depression tends to poison those waters and suck the color out of life. Then it becomes a kind of domino effect, where no matter how hard you try, the world still seems darker, colder, less fulfilling... sounds emo/goth, but it's something that's existed long before modern subcultures could latch onto it.

See, depression isn't a gunshot wound to the heart.
Nor is it a decapitation of a person's head. -Death is imminent, without question.

Depression whether the basis for this stems from a chemical or psychological origin
won't matter because the person *feels* it. -It is here- What to do?

The world only becomes a domino effect IF one allows it.
The beauty of life is that IT can be changed.
If the first Domino starts to fall...chances are it will hit the next one in place...right?

However...IF you stop the process by removing the other domino's what happens?
^^^This is entirely possible if the person believes it, just as they believe they are depressed...
They can create change that will make them feel happiness, and appreciation.

Originally posted by NoHierarchyOf course, there are probably a myriad of reasons for depression... it's ALWAYS chemical/psychological, but the different factors of degree, cause, chronic vs. situational, triggers, frequency, etc. etc. is what makes each case different I'm sure. What I'm saying, though, is that simply being positive doesn't usually kill the depressed feeling nor the lessened outlook on life and the world... it may help but it's not always a cure, nor is it remotely easy to reverse.

I don't think there is a cure when a person's mind is closed off to the possibility of the cure...(make sense?)
My mind while limitless in nature is indeed limited by my choices I've chosen to decide upon.

Help and support is what this is all about.
Fellowship, even friendship, companionship are all vessels depressed people can and should
try to rely on. They are never truly alone, alone enough to harm themselves or end their life definitively.

While I agree with most of what you've said here think about this:
You say there's not always a cure.
And then you say it is NOT remotely easy to reverse.


(1) Do you see what you are doing?
(2) Can you do the math real quick and wonder why the OP and Thicheaded both like what you have to say?
(3) Can you make the connection that while I'm not very smart...*I* chose to say:

-There is a cure
-It is easy to reverse...and while I chose to say this...a change manifested from inside-outward.


Stating something, some information you've attained through studying does not make it so.
While you can say you are depressed, (because you feel it) what caused it?
Can you pinpoint it? Can you isolate it? I am not calling you a liar here, I am
trying to offer a different perspective.


The mind is more powerful than most people can ever possibly fathom.

edit on 13-11-2010 by Chinesis because: (no reason given)

Are you just trying to play devil's advocate? You seem to be playing word games... but you don't really get it. This isn't about philosophizing "what really is 'normal', mannn??"... this is about a real disorder that has real consequences. I'm not saying it's incurable, but whatever it's causes/mechanics, it's a real thing that is difficult to shake, as an illness would be. Mental disorders are NOT a choice, you can't tell somebody with serious mental issues that they're just being silly and they're making it up... they're not. Unless you have experienced these things as others have then you cannot speak upon it. If you have then you should already know what it's like and should concede the argument. Anybody who's experienced it knows the reality. ONCE AGAIN, that's not to say it's permanent, it is to say that it's NOT just some daily choice to either cheer up or dwell, it goes far beyond and deeper than that.

Originally posted by NoHierarchy
Are you just trying to play devil's advocate? You seem to be playing word games... but you don't really get it. This isn't about philosophizing "what really is 'normal', mannn??"... this is about a real disorder that has real consequences. I'm not saying it's incurable, but whatever it's causes/mechanics, it's a real thing that is difficult to shake, as an illness would be. Mental disorders are NOT a choice, you can't tell somebody with serious mental issues that they're just being silly and they're making it up... they're not. Unless you have experienced these things as others have then you cannot speak upon it. If you have then you should already know what it's like and should concede the argument. Anybody who's experienced it knows the reality. ONCE AGAIN, that's not to say it's permanent, it is to say that it's NOT just some daily choice to either cheer up or dwell, it goes far beyond and deeper than that.

The same way you perceive me playing word games...it begs the question
are you playing mind games? The fact you feel I don't get it tells me
your mind limits your ability to think freely or to administer mind over matter.
*What's worse is that you are attempting to disallow my advice (based on experience)
and discredit it without knowing. -Is this fair?

See, this hasn't a thing to do with philosophy although there is a direct connection between:
-What we perceive
-What is reality (to each of us)
-And how these two affect our minds.

Who said to equivocate a mental illness and liken it to being silly or made up?
It's too late for that to say because the manifestation of a thought/belief is already here. See?

As it is I don't think you get it.
A real disorder is being allowed to perpetuate itself, ask yourself why this is?
It doesn't matter how this illness came to be because: IT IS HERE.

Whether depression was caused by a chemical imbalance or other foreign cause...
We have a choice to react to it...

You must have read the posts where I stated I've
had to endure every mental illness/symptom/syndrome there is.
I'll never say I'm cured of depression (because this would be naive of me)
I can say when I sense the feeling associated with depression (or any other mental issue)
I counter it with my mind and with my thoughts.

It works. If you feel it isn't working Rome wasn't built in a day.
This takes (above all) discipline, patience and understanding.

I see you don't understand my point of view but unless you know
what I've been through (and overcome) how can you tell me what you do?

I recognise the illnesses.
I don't focus on them.
Why do you?

Originally posted by Chinesis
I'm sure it hurt my feelings when you chose to ignore, only because you
were hurting I felt I could help...this was my mistake for taking it
upon myself and exerting my unneeded advice upon you.

That's fine. I understand you're trying to help. Although I avoided responding to your many posts in this thread for a while, I did read them. So if you felt I was putting you in the same boat as those who claim depression is not a real disorder, I was not, and I apologize if I came off that way.

As I said, I chose to ignore your posts because of the tone. Yeah that may be a bit immature, but then again, I never claimed I was mature. The replies I did make to you were also immature and contributed nothing to the discussion. Although I restrained myself for the most part, it's clear the personal effect of it seeped into my posts, even if it was just a tad. So for that I apologize as well.

I hope my last two posts have cleared things up a bit. I also hope you know I hold nothing against you and that we can move past our little disagreement.

reply to post by Chinesis

A mentally healthy person in all fairness hasn't a definition. Who defines the construct of a "healthy person?"

Sigmund Freud said something worth your consideration: his definition of mental health is “to work, to love, and to play well.”

www.annamaria.edu...

reply to post by PETROLCOIN



Sure thing, and no worries!
Have a good weekend.

Originally posted by rusethorcain
reply to post by Chinesis

 

A mentally healthy person in all fairness hasn't a definition. Who defines the construct of a "healthy person?"

Sigmund Freud said something worth your consideration: his definition of mental health is “to work, to love, and to play well.”

www.annamaria.edu...

He also said...
"A certain degree of neurosis is of inestimable value as a drive, especially to a psychologist."

And also said...
"Every normal person, in fact, is only normal on the average. His ego approximates to that of the psychotic in some part or other and to a greater or lesser extent."

A noble interpretation but hardly defines conclusively what normality truly is/means.

With this thread as long as it is, and it seems more people are interested in arguing,
probably no one cares what I have to say on this subject. But I'm going to say it anyway. I suffer from Seasonal Affective Disorder.
SAD is a type of depression that comes on in the fall, when the days grow shorter and there is considerably
less daylight. I have had SAD since I was a young kid and I'm in my 40's now. It is a REAL disorder.
In the summer time, I am up with the sun, and I'm extremely active all day long. I have so much energy, and
I'm happy and cheerful, and I love life. I *really* love life and make the most of every day.


However, once Oct., Nov. gets here and the days are shorter, dark and dreary, I am a totally different person.
I can't get up in the morning, nor do I want to. I want to stay in bed all day and sometimes do. I have no interest in **anything** whatsoever. I'm so tired I can barely keep my eyes open even though I've had plenty of sleep. I'm no longer cheerful, energetic or spunky, I'm like the walking dead. I don't love life anymore, I'm just want to stay in bed and sleep until spring comes. I hate my winter self.


Whatever the cause of my extreme, debilitating winter depression is, whether it be lack of sunlight, or a chemical imbalance, or whatever, this depression is real and I don't wish it on anyone! How can a person like myself change from one extreme to another year after year after year? There are so many things I want to get done in the winter, but I swear to god, I cannot muster enough interest, or motivation and my only concerns in the winter are getting through one more day.

I'm shocked that so many people think depression is not real. Once upon a time, Dr.'s told women that menstrual cramps were all in their head. Those days are long gone and ask any woman who's had menstrual cramps whether or not they were imagining them?

I was diagnosed with clinical depression some years ago. Well, I lived with clinical depression, without having a diagnose, at least for 10 years, then I went to a psychiatrist, started to take zoloft every day for another 3 years. It was weird, the zoloft made me work like a zombie. I woke up at time, did what i should do, then go to sleep with the help of klonopin... rinse and repeat. I lost the most important person of my life because he got tired of not being able to make me get over that depression or even make me happy in any way (that was a drunk confession some time later, we're still friends and I praise him a lot for his effort. I love him so much, not as a woman loves a man, but as friends)
One day, I went to another doctor because my defences were so low and I had 3 colds in a row. Then I discovered I had a tyroidal issue that's often mistook for clinical depression: hipothyroidism. The effects of the levothyroxin were inmediate: I just split up with this guy but I was happier than ever. A little sad because I've lost him but nothing compared as the eternal doubt of killing myself because this life wasn't worth living. That was 3 years ago.

Now, for the first time in my entire life I think I'm really depressed (not the "OH LOOK HOW DEPRESSED I AM!" kind of real depressed, I'm depressed for a real reason that wasn't started by my crazy thyroid) and it's no way close of what I felt those years, it's complex to handle but I know I'm getting over this instead of feeling hopeless as when I supposedly had clinical depression. I think it's just a heavy sadness condimented with the worries of living in a very unestable family and feeling I'm losing the battle with my personal demons. And what I'm going to do? Hopefully I had my psychologyst's number at hand, and I'm coming back to see her. I'm getting rid of weapons to kill those little demons that don't let me do anything well in my life and a little chat with her maybe will help me to get/find new weapons. She's a good woman, and I know she'll find something to help me. It's different from the old times, because now I know that depression is just a disbalance of chemicals in the brain, and that those chemicals can be produced by the brain itself if you know what buttons to push. Even when I had a pretty nice childhood, there's still some traumas that doesn't let me live in peace, I know them, and I really want to get over them. Sometimes your own will can do great things, sometimes it needs a little help to do the magic, and bein able to recognize those times, and being really keen on surpasing them by getting that extra help to get finally healthy can be good.
For first time in my life I'm going to therapy believing it's going to help me and not because "mommy said so..."

(Sorry about my grammar and spelling, it's past 5:00 AM here..).

- Cags

Originally posted by Hefficide

Upon returning to this thread I've found what I expected. A lot of opinion supported by no facts. We're here to deny ignorance, not embrace it.

There was a poster who suggested that all the people posting here, who say they suffer, are incomprehensible. As one of those posters who suffers from depression, I would sincerely like to know exactly where I have spoken in an incoherent manner. If such an entry is pointed out to me I will be more than happy to elucidate or explain it.

Others are still prattling on about the fact that they don't believe real depression exists because they have never felt it - or have been depressed and recovered. Again, I point out, that these are two different things altogether.

For example, my nephew has seizures, but he is not epileptic. This does not mean that epilepsy does not exist. It does mean that what he suffers from is not the same thing.

So, yet again, I will state... I am diagnosed with PTSD and with generalized depression. I have been (under one label or another) diagnosed as such for nearly 3 decades. My illness effects my life. My illness has effected the lives of my loved ones - none of whom, by the way - think that I am opportunistic, lazy, self absorbed, negative, or emo. Not a single person in my real life has ever suggested that I am doing this to myself. Not one.

Then again, none of the people in my real life are anonymous strangers who don't have a dog in the fight, so to speak. It's much more difficult to spout opinionated nonsense in the real world I suppose.

I work out, have an active life, eat healthy foods, and sleep as normally as I can - dependent upon my real world responsibilities and the effects of my illness - such as insomnia. My house is in order, literally and figuratively.

So, while it may make a few feel good about themselves to come here and post constant suggestions that all depressed people fit into some kind of self-induced mold. It only compels me, more and more, to post in reply that, contrary to their views, I don't fit that mold at all. In doing so I help to shatter this deluded and archaic generalization and can help others to finally accept that they, in fact, do not know everything about this issue. In this subject just a little education can go a long way.

~Heff

No facts? Quite a few people here have come out and said that they've (including me) been diagnosed with "clinical depression" and refused to take pills...and got better.

Perhaps a better choice of words would be "Your argument lacks facts which I am willing to accept"

What's incomprehensible about your posts? For one you refuse to address our arguments, instead you say we're ignorant and you drone about the same talking points you've been saying the entire thread. Seemingly expecting us to suddenly buy it. You should look into this whole experimentation thing, maybe you'll find life's many colors when you try new things.

Originally posted by Chinesis

Originally posted by rusethorcain
reply to post by Chinesis

 

A mentally healthy person in all fairness hasn't a definition. Who defines the construct of a "healthy person?"

Sigmund Freud said something worth your consideration: his definition of mental health is “to work, to love, and to play well.”

www.annamaria.edu...

He also said...
"A certain degree of neurosis is of inestimable value as a drive, especially to a psychologist."

And also said...
"Every normal person, in fact, is only normal on the average. His ego approximates to that of the psychotic in some part or other and to a greater or lesser extent."

A noble interpretation but hardly defines conclusively what normality truly is/means.

edit on 14-11-2010 by Chinesis because: (no reason given)

I think it does to a great enough extent it is usable.

Especially with the qualifiers you add which also make a lot of sense and account for the range of "differences" in what normal well adjusted mental health actually is...and it is - no problems.

You could argue a healthy person is not one with "no problems" they can not handle with aplomb - socially, academically, within the family, and with a realistic view of the world, but then I might say you were unwilling to accept normalcy as possible - and that cynicism itself is certainly within the range of normal but bordering on pathological denial.

You may stretch his definition to include other groups within it but you cannot say one who works, loves and plays well is not without exception, a healthy well adjusted person..

Originally posted by virraszto
Whatever the cause of my extreme, debilitating winter depression is, whether it be lack of sunlight, or a chemical imbalance, or whatever, this depression is real and I don't wish it on anyone!

I'm not a doctor, but I would say it is a lack of sunlight that starts it, and once that gets your stress levels up and the anxiety begins to pick up steam throughout the fall and winter months, it becomes a full blown depression. With the way I understand the chemical imbalance-induced depression is that it does not matter what season it is, or what your lifestyle is; it's a year-long depression until something directly addresses the imbalance.