Depression is NOT a Real Disorder

reply to post by OhZone


Depression has existed for thousands of years. The earliest accounts we have of it is from the Greeks who knew it as melancholia. Since then there have been accounts of it and those who have suffered from it include such luminaries as Michaelangelo and Isaac Newton. It is not a new disease.

Luckily the subject of depression doesn't have so much of a stigma attached to it these days, people are discussing it more openly. As a diagnosed severe sufferer for over 20 years myself, it seems to me that depression is not so much a big issue... it's ENDEMIC! I've given up on meds, tried half a dozen or so & none of them made a difference. I confronted my doc about that & he admitted as much.

I think it would be hard for anyone not to be depressed in this day & age, we're assaulted daily by a barrage of frightening imagery from our media, who routinely 'big-up' any crappy news story to get ratings. Me, I make fun of a lot of the scary stuff now & take the piss out of news reports of 'underpants bombs' etc. It must really irk news channels that they've reached the thin edge of adjectives now & only have a couple left to describe a cat stuck up a tree or a leaking tap.....

"DESTRUCTION AS LEAKING TAP CAUSES TOWER BLOCK TO EXPLODE IN APOCALYPTIC FIREBALL!"
"EYE-WITNESSES DESCRIBE SCENE LIKE ARMAGEDDON"

whatever.

What really helps me is
1/ science & the internet to study it
2/ like-minded people with common interests
3/ alcohol (in moderation... of course ahem)

I'm sorry folks, hate me if you want, but I'm going to have to disagree with the OP. It's not a real disease. It just simply isn't. Before you hate on me.....

I know what feeling low is. I know what wanting to jump off of a building is. I know what wanting to end things feels like. I know what feeling like crap for days, weeks, and months feels like. I know what hopelessness is. I know some of the most terrible things a person could ever think. I know the darkness too well.

You know what though, I came out of it quite well. Not because I'm special, but because I demanded more from my life. I re-created my life.

Depression is not a real disorder. It is a money making fake "disease." Once you get labeled with this and told there is no cure, "only management is an option," you are hooked into the system, that proceeds to drug you and many times make you more depressed than you already are.

Before I get booed and heckled off stage, I assure you, there are people who "are" in a rut. And, I'm sorry you are there. I feel for you. I know the feelings, they most definitely hurt. I feel for the OP, who thinks they are trapped. But, you are not obligated to anyone to stay in that state of mind. And, you most assuredly are not trapped.

You can take the truth or leave it. I am on here to truly help people. I am here to tell the truth. Labeling someone with an "incurable disease" does not help them. The label itself is destructive, and only brings a person down.

And, believing that you have an incurable disease most definitely is not helping you with your "demons."

You are a hell of a lot stronger than you might think you are. You can stand up, and you can live again.

Troy

Originally posted by OhZoneIs this just a condition of people in the “Western” world?
Do Africans in the remote jungle have it?
How about Pacific Islanders?
Eskimos?

You have some valid reasoning but i am just going to adreas this quote. At one time i often wondered too, if people with simple un westernized life's where as "screwed up" as me. I surmised no.

Well in a different time in my life now i find myself in one of those places. And i was wrong. Three people in my fiancés group of friends suffer. My now wife and her mom as well, "chronic" anxiety which leads to depression. Her mom passed on the learned behavior, some truly stressfully events has caused it to manifest. That happened soon after we started dating.

In the beginning i sent her to a psyciatrist in the city to give her something short term to take the edge off which would enable her to reset the nervous system and concentrate on the tools i was trying to teach her. First thing that doc wanted to do was put her on effexor which is a long term drug that takes months to kick in just as much time to quit at least
It was two years latter we tied the knot. She is now is able to travel in a car, go in the sea,fly in a plane, sleep at night unafraid of robbers etc. We are both gratefully to have met each other.

Aside from social problems i observe the main is education, there is no word for depression/anxiety here, the only word is crazy and is viewed as such by locals. Many who suffer have no access to self help and cant afford a Doctor who knows anything about it. More money can be paid, but the Doctor IMO is still limited in understanding and go straight for the prescription pad for long term medication.
So what happens is many completely crack up and run around the village naked until someone calls in the already overflowing mental institution.

reply to post by cybertroy


Hey Troy,

I do appreciate that you had a depressive period in your life and recovered. I really do. But what I deal with, in my life, is not situational depression. It is a chemical imbalance. The truth is that science is just beginning to unlock the particulars and gain some understanding of what I suffer from. But a lack of understanding does not mean that the conditions many people suffer from aren't real.

In my own experiences (spanning roughly 27 or 28 years of depression and PTSD) I can fall into depressive symptoms regardless of my life situation or my own mental dispositions. I've fallen into depressions at times when I was very happy and literally had all that I could ask for. I did not dwell upon negatives. I did not predispose myself towards defeatist thinking. I am not "emo" at all. In fact most people in my real life world consider me strong, stoic, and rock-solid. Few, other than those closest to me, ever even know that I deal with depression. I am an assertive and upbeat person.

With all respect, saying "I was depressed once and got over it, therefore depression doesn't exist." is the same as saying "I had a seizure once and never had one again, therefore epilepsy doesn't exist." All people who experience depression do not have clinical depression. These are two different things in terms of cause.

~Heff

reply to post by Hefficide


Excellent explanation.
I am manic depressive which for me means I have very regular high manic states - seedless elation. Happy for no good reason. People sometimes ask me...why are you always smiling? Oh, just happy.
Then I level out. I cannot say I am sad at all or depressed but not the high manic state of cloud 9.
Then there is another state, fairly rare in occurrence, which is low. It is a deep depression, I recognize and simply let it work itself out.
When the shower water raining down on my head is so aggravating it seems like someone is actually hitting me with tiny mallets and makes me want to scream...I know I had better just get back in the bed. Since I can't do that I baby myself all day. Stay away from noisy bothersome people, try to avoid people period because I want to hit them, or tell them off. I know it is me - not them, so I have learned to shut up.
After a day or so, never more than 2, it will pass. None of the moods are attached to any life events. In fact I have sometimes inappropriate emotions, happy when circumstances should make me sad and sad when circumstances should make me happy.

I know there are medications that could help me level out and be regular but I like the manic states too much to give them up.

reply to post by rusethorcain


When i was diagnosed with BPII i had mild mania on the up swings, but equal and opposite down. So i have tasted a bit of manic and know what you mean about liking it. I felt active and creative spewing out my free imaginative thoughts at 100 mph. Got every thing and more done that i had neglected on while on the down.

Yes it weirded people out but the relief from the down swings was welcome. Meds tamed the BPII but the deep depression, hopelessness replaced that stage of my mental health phase.

Nice post PETROLCOIN. Many people who have their nose's stuck up ones posterior tend to be very myopic about the fact of depression. As an Air Force Vet. I have suffered from depression since 1978. I know it has genetic qualities and mine was made due to my being raised by two parents who could give a s+#t less and a Govt. that is the same. In my opinion, everyone who is breathing in O2 is at one point in their life susceptible to being depressed. Some people are able to better manage it than others with or without medication. The good news is that it is treatable and we have the opportunity to live full lives. I have found out over the years to not let the little things in life get drag me down, and keeping busy with one's mind and hands helps as well.

As far as I can see in the literature there isnt much evidence of a "chemical imbalance". Hoever drugs which work on receptors and which block the breakdown of neurotransmitters do help severe depression.
i.e. doctors are not quite sure how anti-depressants work exactly.

reply to post by cybertroy


Not to sound belligerent or anything, but are those of us who are struggling to pull out of it or who simply cannot pull out of it supposed to believe it is not a real disorder because you pulled out of it, when the very fact that we believe it is a real disorder is because we are struggling or can't pull out of it? Basically we should ignore what we feel and only focus on what you feel?

Honestly, to ask us to ignore the reasons why we think depression is a disorder, and believe the reasons why you think depression is not a disorder is - I'm sorry to say - naive. You pulled out of depression. I'm happy for you. But unfortunately that's not the case for everyone. Not everyone is the same. Not everyone is wired the same. Some have true disorders, and one of them is depression.

reply to post by PETROLCOIN


You forgot one aspect of this.. Some people are strong willed enough to pull out of it, and some simply are not. I am not saying people with depression, that can't pull out of it are weak.... Some depression is worse than others.. Its all different and all people are different. This is why I have such a problem when Dr.'s pigeon hole everyone into a single ailment or category.

i have been diagnosed with a mental illness. i have been hospitalized several times. i do not believe that i have a mental illness, and i am forced by my family to see a psychiatrist. the medication i have been perscribed has horrible side effects. i do not recommend taking psychiatric medicine. my opinion is that exercise is the answer.
i think labotomies are cruel and unusual punishment. in china, they medicate political dissidents. if you mention the word alien to a psychiatrist - they are bound to medicate you. there is no freedom of thought in psychiatric treatment. i prefer to encounter life full spectrum. after all - there is no proof of chemical imbalance.

Originally posted by Resurrectio
reply to post by PETROLCOIN

 

You forgot one aspect of this.. Some people are strong willed enough to pull out of it, and some simply are not. I am not saying people with depression, that can't pull out of it are weak.... Some depression is worse than others.. Its all different and all people are different. This is why I have such a problem when Dr.'s pigeon hole everyone into a single ailment or category.

I agree, this can go around and around forever. It is also rare that one afflicted so bad does actually recover...its the nature of the sickness, to be without will, shattered, hopeless etc ect...will is lost, a paradox really. And even the words from some who truly understand will fall on deaf ears.

It is natural to have ones feeling validated, especially the depressed. When others challenge or try to understand(even those that have been there) frustration anger and more pity ensue...driveing one down further.

Its so intangible....yet....bahhhhh the frustration, wish i could just Vulcan mind meld and help everyone.

I think i am done sharing here, bottom line is each and every one has to find there path on there own, careful not to rely on support from false comforters and do the best to keep searching...

hope all suffering can find relief, good luck you all.

“Being dosed,” is the terminology of those who have had what would other be seen as recreational drugs added to their food/drink. In the 1970’s I had a friend at the university whose cousin had been dosed. Fellow was about to begin graduate school and stopped off at a local place near his parents on a visit home, where he ran into two guys he knew in high school. They had not graduated from high school and had taken a low road in life, with bad jobs, recreational drug use. While it may have seemed like a prank to them, one of them distracted him and another dropped a sugar cube into his iced tea. When a person has never used hallucinogenic drugs, and they are not expecting a ‘trip,’ the effects can be devastating. I do not think the comparison is accurate, some say '___' can be compared to pouring a glass of salt water into a computer. A lot of random shorts occur. For some the effect of '___' can cause permanent changes in the brain. Fatty tissue can absorb '___', where it can re-emerge months, years later. Particularly when a person’s life is going bad and they start losing weight. '___' is, as many on this board will recall, caused suicides when the US government gave it to individuals. In this cousins case some twelve years had gone by when the individual had been in expensive private hospitals, or had been in private clinics. The aunt and uncle had mortgaged and borrowed all they could. My friend’s mother and father had also paid a lot into the cause. As the money for expensive treatment was over, and the cousin was going through another episode, the family was agonizing over the need to place him in a public hospital, which was more like warehouse than a place where people got much better. Yes, I am aware that these individuals coming out of a state hospital are often more clear than when they went in. Lone term those individuals just cycle in and out of being, more like normal. Normal is often a term that includes a lot of mal-adjusted behavior as well.

You might offer the explanation that the cousin had just reached the age when mental illness manifests, which fits the theory Psychiatry has. I suggest that “being dosed” is more frequent than our society currently recognizes. I also suggest that those who do the deed, rather being some individuals who are being jerks, can be from an organization that has an agenda which our society does not recognize either.

I do not dispute that there are other possible reasons for mental illness. I do think that whatever the cause, treatment by professional health can give relief from symptoms, and urge those who have a question or need to seek responsible care.

reply to post by cybertroy


You do have a point. There's something powerful as well that can take hold of a person: Doubt. And it's perfectly instilled in you when certain medical conditions are diagnosed. One of the most powerful contributors to happiness is autonomy. When you have doubt about yourself, you need others to help you live your life, and lose autonomy. I wouldn't underestimate how easy it is for even a couple of people around you to have doubt and instill doubt. It's a powerful effect and often I would say very hard to even detect within yourself. You come in with a small problem, they certify it, instill doubt, and the problem is much bigger than what it was.

Originally posted by PETROLCOIN
reply to post by cybertroy

 

Not to sound belligerent or anything, but are those of us who are struggling to pull out of it or who simply cannot pull out of it supposed to believe it is not a real disorder because you pulled out of it, when the very fact that we believe it is a real disorder is because we are struggling or can't pull out of it? Basically we should ignore what we feel and only focus on what you feel?

Honestly, to ask us to ignore the reasons why we think depression is a disorder, and believe the reasons why you think depression is not a disorder is - I'm sorry to say - naive. You pulled out of depression. I'm happy for you. But unfortunately that's not the case for everyone. Not everyone is the same. Not everyone is wired the same. Some have true disorders, and one of them is depression.

I wonder why you choose to (avoid) responding to me...
I've done nothing to you and have actually been an active participant in this
thread to help you and people like you.

The fact someone labels a person with symptoms "depressed" because it is in a text
book doesn't mean much when you take a look at your true potential as a limitless human being.
The limits you've imposed on yourself have stopped you from attaining a fresh perspective
on causality...

We are all wired the same. Yes we are.
The issue is that the people who are "depressed" have rewired themselves accordingly.
Whether cognitive or not they have CHOSEN to feel what has consumed their mind(s)


The question you need to challenge yourself with is:
"Do I want to be happy?" Y or N

A person who says, "it's not that simple" are impeding their own progress/rehabilitation.
I was never strong willed and always went with the grain, and went in the direction the air blew in.
I was a follower, never spoke out of line and accepted what everyone told me at face value.

Do you find anything wrong with that?
The politically correct thing to say to me would be,
"I cannot tell you the answer to that question-only you can answer that for yourself."

I discovered MY true power.
I discovered I had confidence, I had abilities, abilities I had suppressed because
I "felt" were stupid, inconsequential, irrelevant and useless based on my perception
of people's perception of those abilities/traits/attributes.

Should you be reading a book, and someone walks up to you and says
"Reading is for stupid idiots, only a moron reads books."

^^^The ball has been put in your court.
The effect it should have (with an assertive person who knows his/her self worth)
should be nothing!

Then you're going to say, "not everyone is assertive."
My answer: THEN GET ASSERTIVE!

Now we're going to call it assertion deficit disorder?


Know yourself, or get to know yourself.
If you don't like the person you are....
CHOOSE to change to what you want to be and it will be so.

Yes, it is that easy.
See, if a person has a limitless determination......he never fails.
He knows he just hasn't succeeded yet, but knows (intuitively) that he will.

It's time to put down the baggage, and throw it away.
Begin a NEW perspective, today, right now!

Anyone else notice that all the "depression" suffering posters in this thread are impossible to understand? My theory about depression is that the people don't think for their damn selves, they need freedom.

To all depressed people, get off your damn meds, start eating healthy, start waking up early, start exercising, and most of all stop thinking about the negatives in life.

It doesn't matter how many dopamine receptors you have, if you think positive thoughts you will get better. Perhaps you don't know what a positive thought is. If my car keeps breaking down, I think about how nice it'll be when I buy a new car. If an idiot insults me, I think about how much of life he's missing out on when his lies catch up to him. If i get a stomach ache, I think about how nice it'll be when it's gone. If I am stuck at work with nothing to eat for the next 4 hours on an empty stomach, I think about how nice it'll be when I do get to eat.

It's not rocket science to read your posts, and see the actual evidence that with or without drugs, you are all #ing negative as hell. You drone on about the same victimizing detail for an entire paragraph, you make terrible, whiny, arguments. And you fail to see the complete irony in saying you need your meds but all they do is make you apathetic to being depressed. Let me repeat that, you're still depressed, we can all tell, you've only lost the pain that comes along with it.

There is absolutely nothing, stopping your human brain, from learning a new perspective on life.

I'm not going to bother responding to any of you individually who are disputing the claims made by those of us who have stated that we have depression because I feel no need to. It would be a waste of my time to debate something that I am experiencing and going through with you because it is something I am experiencing - not you. Therefore, I don't need your uninformed inputs.

All I'm going to say to all of you who have made it obvious you do not understand depression is that your assumptions and irrational "advice" - and in particular your belittling, degrading, and insulting of anyone claiming to have depression - are irresponsible, ignorant, and immature.

I realize this is a conspiracy site and there were bound to be a few from the anti-Big Pharma crowd (which I am a part of, by the way... another incorrect assumption of many of you) strolling in to this thread, but what it ultimately boils down to is that I know what I feel and I am intelligent enough to understand what I feel (without the aid of a doctor) and none of you can change that. That is not me being stubborn or naive... that is me choosing to listen to my body and mind over a person on the Internet.

There are those of you who think you're "helping" by playing the "tough love" role, while there are those of you who think you're bad asses for letting us all know how great and tough you are for either never suffering from depression or overcoming your depression, but no matter which of the two you are, I just have one simple request: Keep it to yourself. I don't care what you have to say. I know what is going on inside my head; I know what I need and do not need to do; I know what I think and feel. I am going to listen to me and do what I feel is right and I could not care any less what you think.

Originally posted by PETROLCOIN
I'm not going to bother responding to any of you individually who are disputing the claims made by those of us who have stated that we have depression because I feel no need to. It would be a waste of my time to debate something that I am experiencing and going through with you because it is something I am experiencing - not you. Therefore, I don't need your uninformed inputs.

Watch it... your starting to entertain our point.. Might be considered debating... Dont want to waste your time!

All I'm going to say to all of you who have made it obvious you do not understand depression is that your assumptions and irrational "advice" - and in particular your belittling, degrading, and insulting of anyone claiming to have depression - are irresponsible, ignorant, and immature.

On top of depressed... You need to add overly sensitive and low comprehension to your negativeness. I didn't see anyone insult/belittle or degrading you. But I am not suprised that you have misinterpited it as such.

I realize this is a conspiracy site and there were bound to be a few from the anti-Big Pharma crowd (which I am a part of, by the way... another incorrect assumption of many of you) strolling in to this thread, but what it ultimately boils down to is that I know what I feel and I am intelligent enough to understand what I feel (without the aid of a doctor) and none of you can change that. That is not me being stubborn or naive... that is me choosing to listen to my body and mind over a person on the Internet.

I am not in your shoes, so I can't claim to know how you feel. But, If I were faced with severe clynical depression. I would focus on people that have suffered from depression and have over come it. You are in this " I am special and nobody knows how it affects me" ... Now isn't that hypocritical.. I dont see anyone saying that their case was exactly like yours. Likewise you can't claim that their depression was not as severe as yours. Of course you wouldn't admit that thiers was as severe as yours... This would say something about your will and or conviction in "fixing yourself".. The fact that they were able to overcome it and your still stuck in this depression would be hard to swallow, if found to be similar in severity.

There

are those of you who think you're "helping" by playing the "tough love" role, while there are those of you who think you're bad asses for letting us all know how great and tough you are for either never suffering from depression or overcoming your depression, but no matter which of the two you are, I just have one simple request: Keep it to yourself. I don't care what you have to say. I know what is going on inside my head; I know what I need and do not need to do; I know what I think and feel. I am going to listen to me and do what I feel is right and I could not care any less what you think.

Are we going to add liar to the list? You DO care what we say.. Or, we wouldn't have just gotten a scolding.

Oh I get it... You only post on ATS to have people agree with you or coddle your views? Re-Damn- Riculous!!!
Myself and others were just trying to put our 2 cents in.. A few were trying to help... and took a long time to type posts... These weren't negative posts.. They were recommendations! They were life experiences. I would think those would be priceless for a person suffering from severe depression and anger issues. These 2 chemical imbalances apparently go hand in hand.

You seem happy or content with being depressed. You seem to have given up on any form of depression free life. You have closed yourself off from any healthy input from others.

If you want to be able to say things WITHOUT members putting in their 2 cents.... I would recommend starting a blog and leave ATS. Here on ATS you are going to get opinions..
hint: thats kinda what the site is about.

Originally posted by Resurrectio
You seem happy or content with being depressed. You seem to have given up on any form of depression free life. You have closed yourself off from any healthy input from others.

You destroyed what little credibility you may have had with these three sentences. Because you see... the issue I have with people like you is you make assumptions. These three sentences are assumptions based on no facts.

You see, a fact in this instance would be a statement from me saying "I am happy and content with being depressed" or "I have given up on any form of depress free life" or "I have closed myself off from any healthy input from others".

My challenge to you is to find where I have said any of these things. However, it's not really a challenge because I could save you the time and trouble ahead of time and tell you I have not said these things... but I suppose for your own personal verification you could head on over to my little drop down menu here on the left hand side of this post and view my posts in this thread.

In case you were wondering, I am not happy or content with depression. I have not given up on any form of depression free life. And perhaps most relevant to this thread... I have not closed myself off from any healthy input from others. But you see, the problem with that is, the people I am addressing in my previous post aren't providing healthy input. The "I am superior to you because I beat depression and you haven't" approach is not a "healthy input", nor is the "I am superior to you because I have never had depression" approach. If you believe it is, I bid you an adieu and wishes of having fun wallowing in your own ignorance.