Depression is NOT a Real Disorder

See, on one hand I can't go so far as to say depression as a medical condition doesn't exist; I'm sure it does.

The problem with allowing that, however, is that you make it all too easy for people just to be constantly whiny/unmotivated/lazy etc and just go "Oh, well I have depression."

Again, I don't want to take away from those who truly are suffering a condition, just saying that it gives far too much room for people to use it as an excuse, as actually diagnosing it can be quite difficult.

Same thing with bi-polar disorder. Is it 'real'? Yes. BUT it leaves far too much room for people just to be angry jerks and not have to take any blame for it.

There is a lot to be said for personal responsibility and self control.

If anyone is interested in learning about any alternative treatments for depression I made this thread.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

depression have a very wide field of symtomes and strenght.
so my own experience is a phobia in a extrem form.its total scary and you can not do much about it and it can be so strong in time that it knock you out even you physical a strong man and even you can lift 200kg of weight.
to discribe the feeling of a extreme phobia to somebody is difficult.but let me try to explain the feeling:
example you go over a street and a car almost hit you, in this moment you are very affrait and also shockt ,that the feeling compair to a extreme phobia ,only by a phobia this feeling can last for many hours even days.
i was 10 years in treatment by a doctor until i get the right medical(fevarin 100) and after 2 weeks i was take it (full allowed dosis)it was working.over the years i was reduce the dosis until i was no more need medication at all.
hope i can somebody help with the post on this side. and sorry about my english im a german.

Thank you from someone who has had situational depression, a few anxiety attacks, a high level of stress for several years, and depression after birth. I do take valerian. It has helped the racing thoughts for a couple of years. I firmly stand behind prayer.

The problem with psychologists/psychiatrists is similiar to that of priests - they talk about stuff they have no idea about idea. It's all vicarious, based on some imaginary concepts they devoted a lot of their time to. Even if they suspect it is all a bunch of BS, how could they state so openly? It would mean renouncing years of training...after all, society decides what is relevant and what's not. That's why so many pointless degrees exist..money is our God? Not even that. Getting a DEGREE is our God.

It is true that psychologists will try to argue that you have clinical depression even if you insist it's situational. They just want to feel useful, ha. But seriously, clinical depression exists I'm sure.

There is a genetic connection to many mental illnesses but there are also other factors. Stress can trigger an otherwise dormant mental illness. Overcrowding, pollution, crime, and financial distress all cause stress in modern society.

I suspect there are factors not very explored related to mental illness conditions such as:
bacteriological, chemical, radio frequency interference, and food/environmental allergies

reply to post by Jennxx



Very true.


So many *statistics* and *evidence* does indeed point towards a genetic disposition/increased potential of developing a Mental Illness...but as you so rightly point out there are a great many other factors at play.

That said, that is also a decent - and growing - body of *evidence* that challenges the almost 'givens' that exist within the Mental Health sector around genetic disposition.
There are emerging studies that appear to suggest there is no real causal contributing link between parents/ancestors who may experience a Mental Illness and their children/descendents.


Which raises the age old question of Nature Vs Nurture.


Does a child of someone who experiences a Mental Illness develop one due to an almost inescapible genetic link, or do they develop one due to the associated life, events, activities, environments etc etc etc they are raised within?


An interesting study I've been part of recently was looking at the prevalence of Mental Illness within families of adopted children.
The study was of children whose parents had no previous Mental Health history living with adpoted parent/s who did...and of children whose parents had a previous Mental Health history living with adopted parents who didn't.

...data to date seems to indicate the link between parent with prior history and a childs chance of developing a Mental Illness is sketchy at best. Of those children who did however develop one there was much strong suggested links to trauma events within that childs life.




As someone who has worked within the Mental Health field for the past 15 years within Inpatient Wards, Acute Wards, Community MH Teams, trained/qualified in Psych Nursing, Duly Authorised Officer, performs assessments, commitals etc etc...so not without a reasonable understanding...what I do know is that we/the Mental Health System DON'T actually know as much as we might have others believe...

...its all such a grey area with FAR more unknowns that knowns...and that is completely understandable when you consider the basic premise of any Mental Health crisis is as individual as the individual themselves.


Yup - in 15 years of this type of work, my biggest learning has been UN-learning what you get taught during your Nursing Training...and RE-learning the very basic fundamentals of simple open and honest relationship/people skills. I know. Who would have thought it all essentially boils down to relating to people as that - people first.

I sometimes think...and with no real shot being made here against fellow Nurses and other 'psych professionals'...too much of our training actually impeeds that simple concept...and we over-complicate something that needs to remain grounded in the very basics.



...psychiatry may in some ways be about the brain...but its not brain surgery...




Peace.

Just to qualify myself, I'm not a mental health professional, but I am a mental health patient.

I was diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder [BD] about 4 years ago after having been misdiagnosed for many years. It took over a year of trying different medications, dosages, and combinations to get my "BD cocktail" right for me. Along with the medication, I was going to counseling once per week. The combination really started to kick in after about a year. I felt as though my counseling had helped me to the point of not needed any more so I dropped it. I did learn a hugely important thing that has stuck with me to this day in counseling and that is a technique called "reframing". In another post, I'll go into detail about reframing but for now I'll just say it's a method to trick your mind into behaving in way you desire instead of your mind's usual way.

In addition to psychotherapy and medication, I started to eat a more healthy diet and drink triple filtered water. I tried to get more rest but I like so many others with BD have my whole life had enormous problems sleeping. I can't stay asleep and get deep REM sleep. I've tried sleeping pills and they do help but I really dislike taking them so I shy away from them unless absolutely necessary.

Exercise and stress reduction were two other areas I worked on and they kind of go hand in hand. Even taking a walk around the block can do wonders to elevate your mood. Analyzing your life where the stress is coming from and devising a plan to deal with it can help.

Most of the things apply to many mental illnesses and not just Bipolar Disorder but I thought I would share my story and I hope it can help even one reader.

Namaste,
Jennxx

Reframing is a mental technique that can greatly help people with many mental illness conditions.

In my previous post I promised a detailed definition of reframing so here it is:

Reframing is a technique to trick you mind in behaving in the desired way instead of it's usual way. It's like running a little program in your "computer brain".

Say you are walking down one side of the street downtown and see your friend Fred on the other side of the road. You wave at Fred because the street noise is too loud to yell. You wait but Fred doesn't wave back at you. He just walks on by and ignores you. You keep walking but start to get angry. Your brow cringes and your thoughts turn negative. The pace of your walk increases and your heart rate increases. Fight or flight is kicking in high gear all from your brain's reaction to your friend not waving back at you and ignoring you.

It turns out the Fred had lost his glasses and he was on his way to get new ones. Your reaction of flight or fight and the biological response to it was entirely created in your own mind because you got angry at Fred for ignoring you.

This is amazing news because this means we can manufacture our mind's reaction to what we desire. For example, if we had a "brain program" running that had something like "don't assume the first thing and react to it" we might have avoided the whole problem with Fred.

I think this delay program is one of the most important. In my case, I just need to delay my mind's reaction for a few seconds and think about the emotion. For me, those few seconds are enough time for logic, reasoning, and love to kick in.

Reframing is a very powerful technique and has been the most useful thing psychology has ever taught me.

Namaste,
Jennxx

Assuming that most of the people here are from America, I just think that because America has brainwashed us with propaganda and MSM and with the false illusions of what our futures hold, how can we not feel depressed? The middle class is joining the ranks of the lower not the wealthy. Instead I see the wealthy class hoarding the money and gaining more wealth that could be used to circulate through society. In America much of our money is invested in banks and the federal government (spending billions a year on the military for wars we can't afford to be in), our country is in debt trillions of dollars, and a Bachelor's degree is seen as easy to get. Jobs are being outsourced, the government is encroaching on our rights, life here in America is a competition now, we are in a rat race to hopefully be some dispencible pawn in corporate cubicles with the fear that we can lose our job we worked so hard to get easily, whether it be getting sick or accidentally spending an extra 2 days on vacation. I plan to leave America soon, I'm in college right now and I still feel this lingering unhappyness in what should be the greatest place. My parents tell me to plan ahead, but all I see ahead of me is a desolate one way road to debt/wage slavery.
People here say college is the best 4 years of their lives, that, in my opinion says that they stopped living/dreaming/being happy once they left college and entered the "real world"... but the world isn't like that. Many people enjoy their lives past college and in other countries benefits far outwiegh the bull# America imposes on us. My solution to this "situational depression" is to leave this situation and hopefully find a better life elsewhere than be trapped in America. Unless you hit big, which is highly unlikely due to the high population here, your just another sheep to them. Your work and time is giving to your supervisors and bosses and CEOs of your companies for them to enjoy life on, while we will need our job just to survive. If you don't find a job what happens? Welfare checks and foodstamps. What a #ed up way to dehumanize someone... make them completely dependent on the government putting them in this position just because they couldn't be ahead of the curve? There are millions of people in America and some will be ahead and be rich, some will be so poor that they live off of welfare, and most will be struggling to put food on the table, pay mortgages, as well as the 30% income tax aswell as other taxes and bills your have to pay. The companies make money off of you with the money they gave you because you need: clothes, food, and shelter. You are a guinea pig that is feed food and water to run on your wheel, and that's your life, here in America... this of course is a very very cynical and depressing post, so what are your opinions on the matter? does what I say sound marginally right?

Hello, I have been reading some of these posts and find it interesting.

I suffer from depression, I never have before, grumpy, down, moody that sort of thing, but this is the real MacCoy.

I have recently moved to a different part of the country(UK) brought a home etc, and things have all just gone from bad to worse.Where I lived before, I was never out of work in 22 years, I had £7000 in the bank, a nice-ish life and 2 holidays a year,not living in the lap of luxury, but did not want for anything.

Now after moving, well there are not many jobs round this way, all my money has gone, on the dole(never before in my life). When I say I am broke, I mean broke and without money I cannot look for work (travel expenses) so catch-22 situation.The longer all this goes on the more I am getting depressed, the doctor has booked me into see a counsellor, but I chickened out of seeing them, thinking(what can they do for me?). I know in my heart I have made the biggest ever mistake of my life moving, and if ever I am to be happy again, it is to move back to where I came from, but with no money, I am stuck here. I break down crying out of the blue, very frequently feel like ending it all, just thinking "what have you done? your life is buggered, it is never going to get any better,what's the point in carrying on" . Everyday is an ordeal, I feel trapped like an animal in a cage, I have forgot how to smile, how to laugh. I have never known anything like it. I am at my lowest ebb I have ever been all my life, and things just seems to be getting worse.

I'm not trying to bump my own thread. I just wanted to give a little update on my condition so that maybe it might help others.

Since I posted this, my depression and anxiety have improved. I have been taking prescription Xanax (0.5mg twice a day), over-the-counter Vitamin D, and Centrum Multivitamins. I'm not sure which of them have had the positive effects, or if it is a combination of all three, but I have improved.

I have also quit consuming caffeine. My only source of caffeine was soft drinks (I'm not a coffee drinker). But when I started having anxiety issues, I quit drinking it. Mostly as an experiment - and partly because I just feel like it - I have had some here and there since I "quit", and have noticed that I am very anxious the rest of the day, regardless of whether or not I have taken my Xanax. So I have come to the conclusion that my regular consumption of caffeine was contributing at least partially to my anxiety.

My thinking has changed as well. This may just be one of those instances where this is only helpful to me because I don't know how many people with depression and anxiety do this, but I would constantly over think what was happening with my body and health (even if I was perfectly fine, which I am 99.9% of the time) as well as philosophical things like why am I here or what is my purpose in life, which, given my pessimism, would just get me down. So I changed the way I thought. I stopped thinking of my existence. I stopped worrying about my health. I told myself that it's not natural to question your existence because no other animal species besides humans do it and I told myself that if my health was in danger then the numerous tests I have had done to me in a few visits to the ER since all of this began would have shown something.

Now, I want to be clear. I am IN NO WAY endorsing ANYTHING I have just said. I am not saying you should get prescribed Xanax or any other medication. I am not saying you should take vitamins or that you may have a vitamin deficiency like I believe I do. I am not saying you should up and quit caffeine (although it probably wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to do). I am not saying you should change your way of thinking because I don't know your way of thinking. I AM NOT telling you what is best for you. Only you (and perhaps your doctor) can know that, so please do not just take my word for it. You have to figure out for yourself what you want to try and what you believe will work for you. This post is only to demonstrate that trying certain things here and there - some more general and easy like the caffeine, others more deep and difficult like the thinking - could possibly make an impact. But it is up to you to think outside the box, get creative, and reach down inside yourself to find your retaliation to the depression and/or anxiety that you face.

reply to post by PETROLCOIN


I agree with your endorsement to give up soda. There is plenty in that drink that is bad for you, not only caffiene. The only time I really use caffiene these days is excedrine migraine. Glad to hear you are getting some relief.

Originally posted by TKDRL
There is plenty in that drink that is bad for you, not only caffiene.

Yeah, I actually just thought about that after I submitted my post. There are indeed plenty of bad things in there, such as the ever-popular high fructose corn syrup. I briefly wondered to myself the possibility that maybe that or another ingredient may cause my anxiety, but there are so many products with HFCS nowadays - many of which I consume - that don't give me the reactions soft drinks do. Since caffeine is known to cause anxiety, and caffeinated drinks are the only thing that brings on my anxiety (Sprite, for example, doesn't give me anxiety, and it is a non-caffeinated soft drink), then at least for me, it seems to be a negative reaction to the caffeine. Of course, that's not to say HFCS is healthy, but as far as I go, the caffeine and my body are not getting along. But everyone is different and everyone reacts differently to it so I hope people quit for their own reasons and not just because it helped someone else.

reply to post by PETROLCOIN


Well it does make sense. The feeling of anxiety is very similar to being on a strong stimulant, I can see it being a trigger. You feel the mild stimulant effect in caffiene, your brain notices it is similar to an attack, then starts worrying about an attack and that sets it off.

reply to post by TKDRL


That's very true. Fortunately I haven't had an actual attack (probably because of the Xanax), more so that jittery, nervous feeling, but for it to still show it's ugly face despite my thus far successful methods of dealing with it mentally, psychologically, and medically, shows that it's still having a very strong impact on me, but the full feeling of it is being suppressed.

But yeah, that seems like the logical culprit to me. I know I said I don't endorse anything I said the post before last because everyone is different, but I don't think it could hurt to recommend quitting caffeine. So if any of you have anxiety issues and you consume caffeine in the amounts found in things such as soft drinks and coffee, it might be worthwhile to try and quit for a couple weeks to see how things change for you. You will feel like crap the first few days (also known as caffeine withdrawal), but if you're serious about trying this, just tough it out for a few days while your body cleans the caffeine out of your system.

I've been dealing with a severe bout of anxiety for the last several weeks, and have been in the ER twice with unbelievably elevated blood pressure - the last time just about 30 hours ago - and the doctors there, both times, ran extensive tests and came back to me saying that my high blood pressure is totally caused by anxiety. This is a new development as in 26 years of having panic attacks, my BP has never before been an issue.

I'm not currently taking any medication for anxiety, though I plan to see my doctor tomorrow to get either Klonopin or Xanax, as he sees fit, but these events have caused me to really take a look at my dietary habits. I don't drink soda, but I do drink iced tea, and have been of a mind to think that either the caffeine or the sugar (or both) are contributing factors.

~Heff

reply to post by Hefficide


Yeah my blood pressure was high during my panic attacks that put me in the ER. It was something like 160/110. I too was told this is normal since your body is under stress. But that is odd that you have never had the high blood pressure before despite having had panic attacks. I'm not a doctor so I couldn't even attempt to explain why.

While on the topic of blood pressure, I also noticed a drop in my blood pressure after I stopped regularly drinking caffeine. My blood pressure usually ran about 140/90 when I was still drinking caffeine. Since I stopped, my blood pressure usually runs about 120/70. I can't say I have noticed a difference in my health since my blood pressure dropped to normal levels because I have generally felt the same (minus the jittery feeling), but I know that the drop is helping in ways that I may not notice or feel, so that alone makes me feel better about it.

As for the caffeine and sugar, you're right, it could be both. I didn't drink diet drinks so I had both the caffeine and sugar. I do still drink drinks with sugar in them though (such as lemonade), and I don't have that reaction. So sugar alone I don't think would cause it. But combined with caffeine, it's very possible. I never thought of that, so that could definitely be it. Since you've had panic attacks for 26 years, I doubt quitting iced tea will make a noticeable difference since there's more to your anxiety than just caffeine (and sugar) since it has lasted that long. But again, it couldn't hurt to try.

By the way, I have a friend who suffers from anxiety as well and she takes Klonopin. She says it works for her. And as I said, Xanax works for me. I'm not endorsing either one but hopefully one of the two works for you. I can't imagine 26 years of that... I hated the five months I dealt with it before I got on Xanax. I wish you well and good luck with your doctor tomorrow.

I suffered badly with clinical depression some years ago. Medication and therapy made no meaningful difference. What did make a difference - and in fact seems to have "cured" it completely - was a permenant overhaul of lifestyle: Large amounts of physical excercise (weight training and cardiovascular excercise), and control of diet to cut out refined sugars and increase protein, and reasonable time outdoors in the sun. The brain-chemical and metabolic consequences of elevated fitness, muscle-health and general health are well-known. One of the factors in depression (again, just speaking personally) is the inability to motivate to get up and actually do the things needed to take control of physical health. It makes you think it is pointless and hopeless.

I don't deny depression exists. From my personal perspective, I do take issue with the notion that formal diagnosis and subsequent medication as some kind of "disease" is always the right way to approach it. That is to treat the symptoms and not the cause. I guess sometimes there may *really* be no cause (although that is exactly what I believed with all my heart 100% when I was suffering, as that is what depression makes you think - although with hindsight I was clearly wrong about that).