I suspect reality is as follows, and I want liberation from it

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
Sigh....

It's really as simple as this:-

you have a brain, it gives you sensory perception of the reality we exist in, if your brain dies, your sensory perception dies, you do not see, you do not hear, you do not smell, you do not feel. You cease to be.

Please don't claim your "theories" as science or logic because it is neither, there is no basis for your pseudo-intellectual ideas of an afterlife, no data, no evidence of which to work with or make a presumption.

I guess simply stating, "it gives you", makes it very simple...

But you are replacing the entire core issue with a completely meaningless phrase.

If you study physiological psychology you will learn the biological chemistry of the brain.
This will help you to understand the fact that the brain is simply a synthesizer of information from the rest of the body, but it is nothing but a physical moving piece.

Originally posted by schuyler
...
So what I think we have is a life-reincarnation cycle that involved this veil of forgetfulness that leaves us in a state of ignorance when we are here and perhaps we are not. I don’t know who or what set up this system. If you say it’s “God,” OK. Call it what you want. If this is sentient, I’m calling It (or Them) out.

Why are you doing this to us? This whole thing is painful. It hurts. It’s not all that fun. I’m happy to be able to smell the roses and the oranges, taste good food, feel the wind on my face, get laid, and all the physical pleasures. But it’s not enough for what You inflict upon us. Don’t you dare tell me this is all self-inflicted. It’s not. You did this to us and I don’t want to do it any more. You’re locking a paper bag on our heads, making us forget everything we’ve ever endured, then sending us down here to “do good.” Nonsense. How can You justify this torture?

Whoever started this, You no longer have my support. We’re not the problem; You are. I want out of this pattern. I want You to let my people go. I want You to free us from the shackles of this cycle. If there is not already a movement with similar ideals and goals, it starts here. If there is, point me where to sign up. I am going to devote every ounce of strength I have, at whatever level, to break out of this hell You have created for us.

The "contradictions" you speak of are part and parcel of two main problems:

1) The EGO and Discernment. We all have EGOs. When we see, hear, speak, channel, etc. we pass this through our EGOs first (and later, if we are lucky, it is passed to our Hearts). A long time ago, before the so-called "Veil" came down, we passed things thru our HEART first, and then our EGO. Now, with our EGOs so big, it takes a huge amount of inner Discernment to try and figure out Truth from Ego. Thus the contradictions.

2) We are all on different Paths on our Journeys and few of us are at the same "Mile Marker". Where we are on our Journey also has an impact on our perceptions of our material world and our Spiritual World.

Your "reluctant conclusions" that we have no "individual control over what happens" is your EGO speaking. If you don't understand this, you may consider reading something like "A Course in Miracles" and see why our EGOs have a HUGE part in this experience rather than a "small part". The EGO needs you to think you have no control so it can place blame on everyone and everything that happens, rather than the reality that everything that happens to you is part of a your own doing, set in motion before you incarnated on this Earth and you are allowed to wonder off that Path through Free Will choices and Manifestation.

If you think "Nature" is the problem, then you might consider reading something like the Ringing Cedars series, where in reality, if we could become in Tune with and in Harmony with Nature (as we did before the "Veil") then essentially Nature could provide for our every need. No, Nature won't provide you with an IPOD, because in reality, you don't need an IPOD to survive on Earth or follow the Path you wanted to walk before you incarnated.

The so-called "Veil" of forgetfulness (combined with Duality) is there because YOU, when you were a higher-dimensional being put it there to experience what life would be like in the lower vibrations where the EGO ruled and the Heart was subservient. Just because you don't want to hear that it was "self-inflicted" does not mean that it is not Truth. Jesus Christ (and Buddha, etc.) saw through the Veil, overcame the Ego and was able to filter this reality thru the Heart first and thus was able to see the True Reality on the "Other Side" of the Veil.

The sad part is that "you" have been trying to get out of this "infliction" for Eons. And yet every time "you" almost made it out, the SHTF. The 11th Planet, Atlantis, etc. We have always let our EGOs and negativity bring us to conflict, suppression, war, Duality...

"I want out of this pattern. I want You to let my people go. I want You to free us from the shackles of this cycle. If there is not already a movement with similar ideals and goals, it starts here. If there is, point me where to sign up. I am going to devote every ounce of strength I have, at whatever level, to break out of this hell You have created for us. "

"They" have listened to humanities request. It's called "The Ascension" and it's the only way out. If you die you will just have to reincarnate someplace else. Ascension allows you to bypass reincarnation. Everyone has a chance in this lifetime, but like has been said, "few choose to take advantage". While there are many who talk of "Ascension", I prefer the version from the book "The Ascension Process". The choice is yours... will you choose to take the next step?

Originally posted by Jezus

Originally posted by JR MacBeth
Jezus, you don't KNOW about what happens after death. You may have beliefs, and some beliefs may be very well thought out, and even claim various types of "evidence" to support them, but they are BELIEFS nonetheless.

You could say we don't KNOW anything.

However, I believe that we are more than just biological robots because of a combination of logic and (believe it or not) science.

I believe the existence of a non physical piece to our consciousness is an unavoidable result of comprehending the abstract nature of thought and feeling in combination with an understanding of physiological psychology (my main area of study).

I believe that death of the physical vehicle is not the death of consciousness simply because I have no real reason to believe it. When you synthesize all the information I find it extremely obvious. I believe this just as strongly as I believe in the laws of physics.

I think the best way to comprehend this to think about the connections between multiple disciplines.

Cognitive psychology, neuroscience, biological chemistry, linguistics, and sleep studies.

Indeed Jezus. Perhaps we don't KNOW anything.

Thousands of years ago (before the time of Christ actually), there was a great "interdisciplinary" Greek scholar by the name of Socrates who concluded exactly, that he knew NOTHING. As a result, he came to be known as the wisest man of antiquity.

Perhaps I see yet another straw man rearing it's head? Do non-religionists, "agnostics", do nonreligious people believe we are "biological robots"? Perhaps some do, but I can tell you, many do not, probably most are not as "materialist" as you seem to think. I hope this doesn't come as too much of a shock.

Rather, many agnostics simply choose to "suspend belief", until sufficient evidence comes in to validate something like a "belief". And yes, we all have beliefs, even we humble agnostic folk, so despised by the religionist majority. However, I would suggest that they legitimately should retain that label, if they haven't come to a solid "belief" when it comes to something like a "supreme being", or "god". It would be the "honest" way to go, don't you think?

You said "I believe", several times, and even emphasized the point that you believe it as much as laws of physics. Further, you go on to suggest that you have come to such a (strong) position, based on a number of different disciplines, and I'm guessing you have decided "enough" evidence has come in, for you to believe what you do.

Well, you must be pretty special. I don't mean that in a bad way, but as I think back to the time of Jesus, and some of what he said, it does seem that such strong "faith" (dare I say), was regarded as quite rare. In fact, Thomas, who was at Jesus' side for some time, listening to him from his own mouth, seeing his miracles with his own eyes, etc., even he couldn't manage to believe like some people say they do today! You are indeed blessed.

But going back to WHY you believe (granting that you have encountered persuasive "evidence"), I do think we would be doing ourselves a disservice if we failed to at least look at our motives, which always play some part in human affairs.

As mentioned by others in this thread before, it is something that we might easily ignore, and yet, all of us seem to desire various "degrees" of immortality. Sure, many are weary from life's cruelty, perhaps there is illness, etc., and might even convince themselves that all they want is "rest", peace (finally), but these things do not necessarily mean "oblivion". Others have lost loved ones, and simply can not imagine that they will never see them again, or that their lives might be pointless, etc.

In fact, there is a "list" of motives we might say, that push us, weigh upon us, "intimidate" us (Pascal's Wager), etc. By the time we are done going through this long list of things, I would venture to say that an honest person would remain rather suspicious of decisions made, under what amounts to severe "duress". I realize that the average person does not think this way, but perhaps I might suggest that a good jury would fail to convict, with all this going on.

I guess this is probably getting deep, but considering the thoughts that the OP has shared, perhaps these ideas will resonate for someone, somewhere. "Why" a person believes, or doesn't, is far more complicated than merely weighing evidence, studying various subjects, etc. Ultimately, after we traverse the fields of personal integrity, we may also come to agree with that wise man of old, who understood that he truly "knew" nothing.

JR

Originally posted by JR MacBeth
Rather, many agnostics simply choose to "suspend belief", until sufficient evidence comes in to validate something like a "belief". And yes, we all have beliefs, even we humble agnostic folk, so despised by the religionist majority. However, I would suggest that they legitimately should retain that label, if they haven't come to a solid "belief" when it comes to something like a "supreme being", or "god". It would be the "honest" way to go, don't you think?

I actually consider myself agnostic.

Are you assuming a belief in a nonphysical (soul) observing consciousness is related to God?

Maybe for some people, personally I am not religious at all.

My understanding of the "soul" comes from a deep study of consciousness itself.

Originally posted by JR MacBeth
You said "I believe", several times, and even emphasized the point that you believe it as much as laws of physics. Further, you go on to suggest that you have come to such a (strong) position, based on a number of different disciplines, and I'm guessing you have decided "enough" evidence has come in, for you to believe what you do.

I see the existence of a nonphysical piece to consciousness to be the direct result of understanding physiological psychology in relation to consciousness.

I see it as one of few directly observable issues.

Logic is the key issue. You can logically prove things to yourself that you can not empirically prove to others.

Scientifically consciousness does not exist.

You can not scientifically prove that another person has consciousness.

As ghandi so wisely once said, be the change you want to see.

I want to urge you, please consider what I say. You are very close to realizing who you are. If you really want to, you can do it.

Originally posted by schuyler
After reading countless books and listening to hundreds of people over the last forty years, From Suzy Smith’s “You Cannot Die” through the Seth Books and Ian Stevenson’s work on reincarnation. I’ve read countless accounts of NDEs, from accounts in books like Moody’s “Life after Life” to individual accounts as posts on forums. And, of course, we have the stories from religions both huge and small, from all over the world. The accounts are both anecdotal and dogma, but they all point to a few basic postulates. I won’t call them “facts” because there is doubt about the exact specifics.

I must interject into this thread some important facts (terminology varies), and perhaps this thread is the reason I ever came to ATS.
you finish your first paragraph with an expression that religion is where you are getting your information. I would suggest that perhaps religion is and always has been ostensibly opposed to the elite-aristocracy rulership of mankind. I say ostensibly because in actual fact religion is the tool of the true aristocracy. It is a weapon that can be used forcefully or subtly. Until the Renaissance, the true knowledge of the workings of the universe was hidden successfully by those truly in control of the religions of the world. Those are enough thoughts to consider for now on that subject.

1. You survive “death” in some way. Your ego remains intact, at least at first and in part. Your physical appearance is pretty much like it is now, though of a finer material and vibration.

You are confusing ego with observer (the actual part of God unaware of its godhood according to the rules of this game). A common mistake, but one to avoid. The Ego is that which provides the personality, the lens, if you wish, through which life experience is completely filtered to the Observer. The whole drama is enacted, supported, moved, thought, dreamt or imagined by the Self (called "The Holy Spirit" or "Brahman" and a host of other names, the origin of All That Is).

2. There is an afterlife with several levels. Your first level allows you to still see this plane, such as in NDEs. Eventually you “see the light” and go to the next level where you meet people who have passed on prior. This realm is described as very beautiful.

3. Much of what you experience after death depends on what you believe. If you believe in Jesus, you’ll see him. If you believe in 72 virgins, you’ll see them. You will tend to believe your views are vindicated. Rationalists will have a bit of a problem, but they’ll get over it.

4. Reincarnation is a basic truth. Your ego is part of a greater soul that experiences life through many different lives. At some level you forget your ‘previous’ lives so they do not interfere with your current ones.

If one is hungry enough for home, one finds a way around that. I did. I know others who have.

5. It appears that “time” is an intellectual concept that is a convenience, but doesn’t really exist. In other words, your next life could be in 900 BC; time is not lineal.

Most people are unaware of that I think. It seems everyone I've mentioned it to has been surprised by such a thought.

I know there are people here and elsewhere who believe they’ve got the specifics of these general statements down way closer than this. I appreciate your certainty, but I don’t buy it because you contradict each other.

In a universe that favors diversity, divergent truth is possible. Therefore, contradictions between those who claim to be in authority over men in issues of spirit are moot, and not a problem. My truth differs from your truth as surely as two subatomic particles' bubble-film tracks are different. We are each perfect manifestations of the will of the One who is giving this experience to Itself. In terms of time, it's more accurate to say that it's always right now, because for an immortal being, time literally does not exist.

For every person who claims Jesus meets them on the other side there is someone who claims she is a reincarnated alien. I have seen posts where it is claimed we must live 144 separate lives to qualify for ‘advancement’ and threads claiming we have to live ALL lives on earth before we collectively move on. I don’t see any good way to verify any of these specific claims and don’t want to waste time examining them, therefore I’ll stick to the more general issues above.

One of my reluctant conclusions is that it appears we may not have much individual control over what happens. What we have come to know as our own selves, our egos, may have a somewhat small part in this game, a temporary convenience of the oversoul so that he can experience whatever it is he is attempting to learn. We may be semi-sentient avatars for a Second Life game we don’t know we are playing.

The Ego is supposed to merely provide a mask for the Observer to wear and protect from traumatic memories. The modern man's Ego has generally grown far beyond a healthy relationship to the rest of the person. It becomes the greatest challenge so far in God's game of life. None of us are in any danger, however, since the whole experience is scripted, and we agree on it before we "board the ride". more on that later.

Although the lives of most people typing at keyboards these days must be somewhat okay, for most of our existence and for the vast majority of people today life is as Hobbes described it: “solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short.” It always has been.

You only get whatever existence you agree to. Thus, responsibility lies with you what you get. No one is "doing this to you", but you, to paraphrase Robert Hunter.

Nature doesn’t exhibit much “love,” that thing we’re all told we must spire to.

Here is the greatest break with reality that you have expressed so far. In the universe I live in, I am an integral part of the universe. That means I am an integral part of this planet, of this continent, of this hillside, of this house. The kind of thinking that divorces man from nature justifies treating it (and therefore ourselves) as a resource to be pillaged. Sometime soon, mankind will 'get it'. And the planet will heave a sigh of relief, along with us.

Nature is “red in tooth and claw” and basically lives off death. The number of people killed by other humans, the number of people living in abject poverty, the number of people who starve to death, the number of people who live without hope is appalling.

I know no one without hope. I know no one in abject poverty. They are not part of my experience, therefore I don't believe in them. The only people I know are living out lives they agreed on for reasons they can't remember, for the most part. I think it boils down to "Verweile doch, du bist so schoen" (from Faust, look it up if you're unfamiliar with it). We collectively love the horror that is possible with the kind of brains and bodies we have evolved for ourselves. It is entirely plausible that no one inhabits the most horrific lives at all. There's no reason a roller coaster can't travel its track empty.

I’m left wondering, what is the point here? Surely you are not telling me that these kinds of lives are secretly teaching their oversouls some esoteric, but very important message about the meaning of life. It’s pretty apparent that majority opinion is that we, Homo sapiens, are “bad.”

That is a judgment, and judgments have the effect of cementing the Ego of the judge in a place of unassailable power. However, the Ego likes to be petted, coddled, catered-to, sung to sleep, etc. It's a very high-maintenance relationship, letting the Ego be in control, and not something I'd wish on anyone.

Whether this is objectified in thoughts that “we are destroying the planet” or “We all live in sin,” the message is pretty much the same. This seems to be coming from ourselves rather than from somewhere on high. We are not a race that loved ourselves. We prefer to blame ourselves, or at least everyone else but ourselves.

That version of the game is seductive. But it makes you (the real you as well as your body) a Matrix-like energy source for an insatiable parasite. Why not empower yourself instead?

So what I think we have is a life-reincarnation cycle that involved this veil of forgetfulness that leaves us in a state of ignorance when we are here and perhaps we are not. I don’t know who or what set up this system. If you say it’s “God,” OK. Call it what you want. If this is sentient, I’m calling It (or Them) out.

You are it, you're calling yourself out. When you are ready to take full responsibility for yourself, you're in for a surprise.

Why are you doing this to us? This whole thing is painful. It hurts. It’s not all that fun. I’m happy to be able to smell the roses and the oranges, taste good food, feel the wind on my face, get laid, and all the physical pleasures. But it’s not enough for what You inflict upon us. Don’t you dare tell me this is all self-inflicted.

It's self-inflicted.

It’s not.

It is.

You did this to us and I don’t want to do it any more. You’re locking a paper bag on our heads, making us forget everything we’ve ever endured, then sending us down here to “do good.” Nonsense. How can You justify this torture?

You are ever-so-close to the truth. Just give up, realize that you can't and never could help doing any of the things you did, nor could you stop the things that were done to you. If God is logical (It is!) and existence sensible (It is), then you must have agreed to all of this before you were born. YOU have the potential to realize that you are a piece of God in the world, sent here to gather experience and bring it home when the time comes. If and when the end of your existence comes, there will be nothing you will be able to do about it, nor will you have to strain and exert yourself to make it happen. It will happen all on its own.

All you need to do to realize your god-hood is accept responsibility for all of your existence. I suggest perusing roage.com and roage.free-forum.net. there is an abundance of information there on how you can become a sovereign; a bona-fide son-of-god-on-earth.

Whoever started this, You no longer have my support. We’re not the problem; You are. I want out of this pattern. I want You to let my people go. I want You to free us from the shackles of this cycle. If there is not already a movement with similar ideals and goals, it starts here. If there is, point me where to sign up. I am going to devote every ounce of strength I have, at whatever level, to break out of this hell You have created for us.

Let go. Accept. Judge not. Those are three synonyms for love, and until you can think of Ted Bundy or Jeffrey Dahmer without judgment, you don't have it. We are one.

Love,
Seamus

Nature is “red in tooth and claw” and basically lives off death. The number of people killed by other humans, the number of people living in abject poverty, the number of people who starve to death, the number of people who live without hope is appalling.

I know no one without hope. I know no one in abject poverty. They are not part of my experience, therefore I don't believe in them. The only people I know are living out lives they agreed on for reasons they can't remember, for the most part. I think it boils down to "Verweile doch, du bist so schoen" (from Faust, look it up if you're unfamiliar with it). We collectively love the horror that is possible with the kind of brains and bodies we have evolved for ourselves. It is entirely plausible that no one inhabits the most horrific lives at all. There's no reason a roller coaster can't travel its track empty.

Mr. Ahmadinejad is that you?

Originally posted by Xtraeme

It is entirely plausible that no one inhabits the most horrific lives at all. There's no reason a roller coaster can't travel its track empty.

Mr. Ahmadinejad is that you?

Aha... i must have hit a nerve! Too much truth for you? Too bad. Take it up with Management. It is my duty to inform you at this juncture that I am a sovereign and any action taken against me by anyone acting as a proxy for or in the interest of any fictional entity will have swift and painful repercussions upon same. Since I am not the controlling entity, this is not to be construed as a threat, but as an explanation of karmic physics, so to speak.

Originally posted by seamus
Aha... i must have hit a nerve! Too much truth for you?

Solipsism has always been a very complicated and respectable philosophical system.

Article yesterday in the CS Monitor about a Holometer which will possibly prove that the universe is a giant hologram.

www.csmonitor.com...

If the universe is merely a projection - does that mean that the external logic for physics, karma, etc. are in a computer? Is the projection a trap for consciousness?

Originally posted by Xtraeme

Originally posted by seamus
Aha... i must have hit a nerve! Too much truth for you?

Solipsism has always been a very complicated and respectable philosophical system.

edit on 27-10-2010 by Xtraeme because: (no reason given)

Solipsism is basically 101 ego. almost true on that level. which do i not see hear feel does not exists.

in reference to me - the only reference that can exist since is the only known on the physical lvl - the center of world is me. that world from that perspective exists so deeply intertwined with me that i can say sure sure, it's me.

from the idea of complete unpredictability of other people from the experience we have with them, there must be a level on which there are separate worlds outside our point of reference. so the world of mine is no longer detached below the level of ego or even on some parts of it.

that connection is named -truth-. since we, people of the world, share truth, either directly or indirectly, we are as as one.

we create and experience our personal worlds, but a for quite a few centuries we are creating and experiencing a common reality. common, i mean wide spread and still growing. sometimes it's invading personal or group realities with changes not taken likely. that is what keeps us apart from one true global society.

it keeps us apart because we have no idea how to build it, we forgot, and we make mistakes. not everyone is born a mason. i think this aspect is well explained by schuyler. he's reality is threatened by the very idea of a mistake in the build.

fortunately the build is not a regular building. you can build any part you want at any time, but is still capable of catastrophic collapse. you just have to rig it with explosives and fly a plane into it while pointing the finger the other way (for that, the problem lies with the finger, because buildings can be remade, but not with empty, fictional bricks).

and yes, schuyler, it is self inflicted. the reality what connects us is still at it's infancy. because of that, there is an extremely small part of you (and me, and most of us) overlapping with it.

how do you know if the brick you have provided is a strong one or a weak one if it is so small?

it is easy to overlook. therefore easy to make a mistake.



But at least we are aware!
we can discus the each floor at a time and make it perfect over time. a long time.

Originally posted by encoder
Solipsism is basically 101 ego. almost true on that level. which do i not see hear feel does not exists.
...
and yes, schuyler, it is self inflicted. the reality what connects us is still at it's infancy.

The reality that connects us all is the universe (which, assuming it's hyperbolic, means it's already a little over half cooked by current cosmological figures). However it's a logical abortion to assume that since we're all connected through time and space that we're at the present "one." The very fact that all things can be one doesn't mean at all points we are one.

So to say it's self inflicted is to fall in to a solipsistic argument, 'All things "were one" so therefore it must be "self inflicted."' This is just sloppy thinking.

Might I suggest trying some read of George W Meeks' After We Die, What Then?, it is a timeless work considering the hereafter. I enjoyed your post and some of the thoughts afterwards. It appears we hodgepodge our beliefs structure to fit our needs instead of perhaps basing our beliefs on what we experience...

reply to post by Xtraeme
What people fail to understand is that in making a Universe many things come into play, the universe is, substantial in being involved in cause and effect, there are higher more perfected planes as there are lower less perfected planes.
This Eath plane seems some what in the middle.

" Welcome to my kingdom. Are you afraid? Even my name strikes fear into the heart of the unenenlightened. Ibear the fears and the hatereds of everyone. You are so afraid of life itself. I am the Lord of the Gates of Matter. Do you hate the world and all that is in it? Do you dread the bonds of matter? How foolish is the mind that replaces wonder with fear. Yet it is not my task to enlighten you/ You must elighten yourself. I do not ask that you attach yourself to me in slavish adoration- yet so many choose this path. When you only seek endless idle pursuits, gratificationn of your physical senses and material pleasure, then you chain yourself to me. It is not my task to release you. You must release yourself. I do not demand your adoration, yet you give it so freely, so greedy are you to own and possess. "

By Naomi Ozaniec

Originally posted by googolplex
reply to post by Xtraeme

 

What people fail to understand is that in making a Universe many things come into play, the universe is, substantial in being involved in cause and effect, there are higher more perfected planes as there are lower less perfected planes.
This Eath plane seems some what in the middle.

I largely agree with this. However, unfortunately, the empirical evidence to back up such a claim is woefully lacking. As I've argued before the universe appears to be a probability machine. Meaning the end goal is all possibilities, and all possibilities reflects a number of rather horrific outcomes. Given the option I'd prefer to see reality collapse as many of these permutations as possible in the positive direction.

To say that people who live out despondent, miserable lives are equivalent to empty cars on a roller coaster track is no different than saying reality is all sunshine and gumballs. Ignoring these people is dehumanizing, morally vacant, clinically delusional, and it even exposes a rather large hypocrisy of the "all are one'ers" because it denies someone else's existence.

reply to post by Jezus


You knew what i meant. Sorry for personifying the brain in attempt to shut down people using unfalsifiable thesis to try and support their hypothesis for an afterlife.

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by Jezus

 

You knew what i meant. Sorry for personifying the brain in attempt to shut down people using unfalsifiable thesis to try and support their hypothesis for an afterlife.

How could I possibly know what you meant?

"It gives you" is a completely meaningless phrase in place of the core issue.

What is the relationship of the brain to consciousness?

Does it create consciousness? There is no evidence to suggest this.

You need to distinguish the experience from that which experiences.

Your brain is nothing but a moving piece, just like your foot but more complex. You brain synthesizes the message that your body receives from the outside world. It is simply sending a message. Something must receive this message.

You can call it a "soul" if you like but it is fundamentally nonphysical because of the nature of experience. "Feeling" is the state of the mind/soul/observer.

Your brain is able to create the message or the "feeling" but it can not experience it.

You experience it.

reply to post by Jezus


i think there is amble evidence to indicate that the brain creates consciousness, since without a brain you would be an invalid and not conscious of anything. Consciousness is defined as the conjunction of mind upon an object (per Buddhism), so consciousness is purely physical. The mind is conscious, but the brain is what processes the consciousness, so I suppose if the brain did not create consciousness, it is the receptacle of it, meaning pure consciousness creates individual consciousness, by which the brain traps the consciousness for the mind to perceive and comprehend.

Originally posted by filosophia
reply to post by Jezus

 

i think there is amble evidence to indicate that the brain creates consciousness, since without a brain you would be an invalid and not conscious of anything. Consciousness is defined as the conjunction of mind upon an object (per Buddhism), so consciousness is purely physical. The mind is conscious, but the brain is what processes the consciousness, so I suppose if the brain did not create consciousness, it is the receptacle of it, meaning pure consciousness creates individual consciousness, by which the brain traps the consciousness for the mind to perceive and comprehend.

The brain creates the "consciousness" if you are referring to the experience.

But the fundamental issue is that the experience is distinct from that which experiences.

The intrinsic nonphysical quality of consciousness/mind/soul/observer is the logical conclusion of comprehending the abstract nature of feeling itself.

The brain synthesizes a message.
YOU receive and experience this message.

You become feeling, thought, and emotion depending on the message.

I think you're in the same place as The Buddha when he first started seeking an answer to the suffering he saw in this world. You want to break the cycle (of rebirth and pain)? Sounds like classical Buddhism, maybe you should convert.

But another thought... If God created everything and we were created in his image, perhaps we are little co-creators. Maybe we are the ones (in our capacity as oversouls) who have created the world or physical universe we live in. Once you lose sight of the source you are liable to make all sorts of mistakes.

But then again I've heard that even this suffering and striving upstream back towards the source deepens the consciousness of God and ourselves(since they also say we are one with God).