It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

I suspect reality is as follows, and I want liberation from it

page: 18
175
<< 15  16  17    19  20  21 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Nov, 9 2010 @ 12:53 AM
link   
reply to post by awake_and_aware
 


Who's to say it didn't? Come from a marshmellow I mean.




posted on Nov, 9 2010 @ 02:47 AM
link   
reply to post by UltimateCynic
 


You may be completely right. The only reason I say "may be," and "possible" about such a scenario, is because I'm an agnostic skeptic. I can't make assertions of fact without proof, and I can't prove a negative. So I have to consider the possibility that there is such a thing as an afterlife in the absence of proof that there is not, but I can honestly say I have seen no compelling evidence that there is either. Any evidence I have seen in support of one could have myriad alternative explanations.

The thing I find truly frightening is that our physics (which we could also potentially learn are wrong of course, someday) continues to find evidence of supersymmetry, which (they say) suggests a multitude of dimensions and (according to some theories) even a holographic quality to our perceivable universe. So not only might there not be an afterlife or any meaning to our existence, but the very nature of our perceived existence might be completely erroneous to the point that we would find the reality of our universe unrecognizable unless we're cosmologists. And even then, that understanding could be completely primitive compared to the objective reality, whatever that might be.



posted on Nov, 9 2010 @ 02:51 AM
link   
you can never get too far wanting as a child does for candy.



posted on Nov, 9 2010 @ 12:39 PM
link   
reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
 


This is the way people think on ATS, "You can't prove it wrong? must be true then". All aboard the fail boat.

Meep Meep.

Lets have another theory, unicorns exist, they were created by the lightning rods of Zeus, Zeus exists, because you can't prove he doesn't, la, la, la, la.
edit on 9/11/10 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 10 2010 @ 06:21 PM
link   

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by UltimateCynic
 


No one can percieve of anything before they are alive, because they don't have the physical contructs to percieve.

What makes people think you can percieve after death.


You are confusing sensation and perception.

Two connected but distinct parts of physiological psychology.

Sensation is the physical part. It is the message created by the body and synthesized by the brain.

Perception is an abstract concept. It is a characteristic of consciousness.



posted on Nov, 10 2010 @ 07:24 PM
link   
reply to post by schuyler
 


Let me just say what I have to say and then you can keep believing whatever you will afterwards.

It's funny how you blame "God(s)" for your life and situation. You don't see that throwing your angst and rebellion against something or someone else will result in everything just bouncing back at you. Because that "God(s)" you blame is, in essence, YOURSELF.

But please, read on.

The majority of humans beings tend to see things from a perspective that is firmly rooted in the "good" or "positive" side of things, thinking that a world and a life filled with love, compassion, freedom and unity is the only way to go and that a world plunged in fear, bondage, deception and division is what must be overcome. What I'm trying to say is that most people (many of which are just ignorant little sheep following the rest of the herd) stick to these seemingly "altruistic" ideas while paying little to no regard to the "negative" side of things, the reason why "evil" exist, and more importantly, the necessity for a negative polarity (or opposition) to exist - specially in the 3rd Dimension.

These people are also quick to judge and point out their fingers at the rich, the powerful and the egocentric, claiming they are the "evil" ones and that they are all on the "wrong" path because they "abuse" people as if they were animals, not considering for one moment than just perhaps these people who choose to do "evil" and delight in it are as much needed as the people who do "good" and strive to serve others.

Without an antagonist such as this, your life would be meaningless, void and utterly boring. "Evil" needs to exist in order to give life a meaning and help those in the so-called "positive" path to progress and ascend. Same goes the other way around, "evil" people need "good" people whom to enslave and feed from, in order to progress as well. It is a reciprocal relationship.

What I'm trying to tell you is that you only think your vision is right because you fail to see it from the other side.

And I'll tell you more, which you probably already know in your own way, but you still fail to understand the underlying essence of it. When you speak of "I" or "we" you do so as if you really were a separate sentient entity. And you are, in the smaller scheme of things, but macro-cosmically speaking, you, me, them, us, are all One. The Illusion is that we are all separate, when in fact we are all more interconnected than you can imagine. Yes, it is true that the One Infinite Creator, the Primordial God-Essence, or whatever you wish to call It, went Big Bang to experience Itself, to cognize Itself, to understand Itself, to LIVE itself. All the infinite particles and fragments that you call Souls are just individuated Egos of that Original One Ego. And as they live and experience life, so does It (the Creator) lives and experiences Itself, not as a separate entity, but as you and I, the human race, and all the extraterrestrial races out there (and around here).

The "good" and the "evil" are both aspects of the Infinite Creator. Problem is most people are just blinded and deceived by religions and the human finite and narrow concepts of morality and ethics.

Homo Sapiens are not "bad", they are just stupid (generally speaking). Homo Sapiens are a very young race of homonoid Life Forms who are still learning (and many times failing) the lessons of the school that is Earth.

"Evil" will continue to exist, even after the coming "Ascension" and in the 4th Dimension.

So I suggest you start getting used to it. This 3rd Dimension in which the majority of you live in is meant to help you decide your polarity orientation. It's all about choice: the Service-to-Others Path or the Service-to-Self Path.

Just go with the flow of the game. But make a conscious choice. Only those who fall into either of the two extreme ends of polarity will be "Harvested" and translated into the 4th Dimension. The rest, the lukewarm and indecisive will just repeat the 3rd Density cycle on another planet. No big deal. Life goes on.

But if you want out of this pattern and if you want to free yourself from this cycle, then MAKE A CHOICE. You're not the only one coming to this "awakening", deep inside you intuitively feel there is a way out of this "reality". And let me assure you, you wont find much relief in death. You'll just end up reincarnating again (and the Veil of Forgetfulness will take effect yet again). So let me repeat to you, MAKE A CHOICE: Service to Others or Service to Self.

Hope I could help you understand things a little bit better. If not, all the same. Just pay no attention to my words and move on with your life.

All is well either way.
edit on 10-11-2010 by RKallisti because: Minor spell-check corrections.



posted on Nov, 12 2010 @ 11:31 AM
link   
reply to post by schuyler
 


Well said. I feel exactly the same way. I would rather have my soul annihilated and cease to exist in any shape or form than spend an eternity is this artificial hell hole.
If this is the best God can do, then he can shove his creation where the sun don't shine.



posted on Nov, 13 2010 @ 11:33 PM
link   
reply to post by schuyler
 


Knowledge says you are completely correct.

But language says you're completely wrong.

This is the paradox of the human condition.

By very definition, reality is everything that exists... so no matter what you do, you will always be within the realm of reality.

My case is presented here, if you view it as a logic ladder:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Let me clarify... again, you are completely right/wrong...

When Einstein postulated his famous discovery, many felt it was not within the 'realm' of reality. But through rational thought and communication, Einstein was able to effectively communicate his ideas to the world-at-large.

So you are completely right, but through the limitations of the human condition (which I agree can be overcome) you are limited to expressing your concept in language, a most ineffective form of communication indeed.

Flag for sure. Beautiful thoughts dude, for real.
edit on 13-11-2010 by poap420 because: grammar... lol sorry mods




posted on Nov, 14 2010 @ 06:42 AM
link   
reply to post by Jezus
 


Perception is the same as sensation as far as the brain allows for them, take the brain out and perception and sensation are gone.

Clearly you have more evidence that you go on in the afterlife and that Hell and Heaven exists and that some super duper overlord of the universe is there waiting for you.

Count me out on this theory.



posted on Nov, 14 2010 @ 07:49 AM
link   
reply to post by schuyler
 

We all want out from this cycle of pain and torture and discover what really is the truth. We are existing in many realities simultaneously and the load of all those realities is acting upon us, so even if you get material comforts in one life in others you may be under severe poverty. This is pure torture of the soul in all fronts both material and spiritual.



posted on Nov, 14 2010 @ 08:01 AM
link   

Originally posted by vinay86
reply to post by schuyler
 

We all want out from this cycle of pain and torture and discover what really is the truth. We are existing in many realities simultaneously and the load of all those realities is acting upon us, so even if you get material comforts in one life in others you may be under severe poverty. This is pure torture of the soul in all fronts both material and spiritual.


I would like to ask you what you mean be "existing in many realities simultaneously"? Are you referring to rebirth or the theory that there are many of us existing but we don't know it?



posted on Nov, 14 2010 @ 10:24 AM
link   
Sounds like, "we are living in a simulation theory". Consciously & even physically, we exist in many realities simultaneously. Everything that is possible is happening in one of these many realities. For example, in one reality you may be surfing ATS and then suddenly decide, sod this boring life and decide to go travelling around the world, having a great time, or in another you may just continue on with your mundane boring life of surfing ATS. Basically every thought you have and every action that is possible is being acted upon in other realities and other aspects of yourself are living those many lives.

www.liberator.net...

Taking things a step further, if you're one of the unlucky ones whose life sucks, then maybe it's simply a case of focusing your awareness elsewhere, like on one of your many other lives (realities) where the quality of life is much better. Sounds simple, but when you add the other 6 billion humans to the equation, it gets a lot more complex and life becomes a lot harder.

edit on 14-11-2010 by kindred because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 14 2010 @ 10:41 AM
link   

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by Jezus
 


Perception is the same as sensation as far as the brain allows for them, take the brain out and perception and sensation are gone.


You are simplifying the issue to the point of meaninglessness.

Perception is an abstract state of consciousness. It is the exact opposite of sensation.

The perception would obviously no longer be connected to the sensations synthesized by the brain but a change in perception is not necessarily an end to perception.


Originally posted by awake_and_aware
Clearly you have more evidence that you go on in the afterlife and that Hell and Heaven exists and that some super duper overlord of the universe is there waiting for you.


The nonphysical characteristic of consciousness has nothing to do with religion.

It is the unavoidable conclusion of understanding physiological psychology and the abstract nature of consciousness itself.

When you start thinking of a soul or heaven and hell you are projecting far too many assumptions onto the issue.



posted on Nov, 15 2010 @ 08:03 AM
link   
Hello mate, Read your OP, nice theory, however I have a few questions..

You talk about the ego quite a bit and about it going forward in death/afterlife, I was wondering then what you make of people who experience ego death? Does that mean they are out of the loop? Do they have no afterlife because their ego is dead?

Also you speak about how much it hurts to go through this loop but you also talk about reincarnation, so I presume you have read up on Buddhist philosophy, if you haven't then I'd give that a read as that would explain about the pain you speak of.

Cheers - V



posted on Nov, 15 2010 @ 02:24 PM
link   
hello!
that is an awesome thread but it proves only one things...each and everyone of you experience different things, and then become different human beings with differents beliefs and all and all....thing is..we are human ( for now) and none of you have any answers! it sucks i know, but as long as we are in this reality, we'll never know and that is why ther's so much threads and so many sites like this one...we are all trying to give a sens and a meaningfull explanations to all this s*** that is happening to us...life is bad AND good...the perfect balance, and its the only truth we'll ever get for now!! but one of those posts is telling us the absolute truth...MAKE A CHOICE!! YOU WANT A CRAPPY LIFE OR A GOOD ONE...and as for all those who are suffering around us...in the media, rapes, murders, hunger....its not happenning to us..it might sound selfish, but this might be just a huuuuuge hologram...maybe none of you really exist, same thing for my friends and family...i will go throught this life and then, i'll see after

but i understand and honestly, this is the best thread ever! human trying to convice human...i love you all!

ps im french sooo sorry for all the mistake



posted on Nov, 16 2010 @ 02:06 AM
link   
Oy. Familiar topic this. I get where the op is coming from on this one.

For those of you on the more positive tip, who say that one needs to only choose a path in life that will lead to their happiness/freedom/enlightenment... to try to live the life that they think they want... what do you do if you come to realize that your very dreams and ideals enable or create the very negative conditions you are trying to avoid? What if you discover that just going through the motions of living in your society causes harm to others. Many live in societies heavily dependent on the exploitation and/or defeat of other people's goals and dreams (which is a lot of industrialized nations via capitalism) so that they may elevate themselves to a better position or aquire something they want or need.
They want that new job, but 20 cats are applyin' and maybe only half of that are needed. It's all their dream job, too.
Or they want to cop the new laptop, but when they get it, they find that the people that constructed it for them are severly overworked and underpaid.

These are lame examples I know, but for myself, it seems like the path I've wanted to follow ever since I was a kid has all these unforseen side effects that I'm not necessarily comfortable with. It seems like, in the reality we live in, the various modes of thought and forms of social organization and economy only ever feed on themselves. It feels like this human culture, or civilization just keeps cannibalising itself... perpetually... for no other reason than just to do so...



posted on Nov, 16 2010 @ 11:30 AM
link   
reply to post by Jezus
 


I'm not simplifying it at all, before you were born, you didn't exist, you didn't have a brain therefore you didn't have any sensation or even any perception of existence let alone the reality around you.

In death, the brain ceases in activity (proven) and decomposes (proven), yet you still have reason to believe that some sort of existence carries on without the required tools to sense or percieve.

I want to how you know this, if this is the case, and if you don't know, what makes you suggest or believe in afterlife hypothesis?



posted on Nov, 16 2010 @ 02:06 PM
link   

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by Jezus
 


I want to how you know this, if this is the case, and if you don't know, what makes you suggest or believe in afterlife hypothesis?


While I can't speak for Jezus. I'd suggest reading Bob Monroe's book 'Journey's Out of the Body.' To give an excerpt,


3. ON THE EVIDENCE
In the fall of 1964 an interesting meeting was held one evening in Los Angeles. It was composed of some twenty assorted psychiatrists, psychologists, scientists, and myself. It was a most rewarding evening. The purpose of the meeting was to examine with sincerity and seriousness his experiences and experiments which have been condensed herein. After several hours of interrogation by the group, it was my turn. I asked two simple questions of each of them: “If you were going through what I have been experiencing, what would you do?”

It was the definite opinion of the majority—-more than two thirds—-that every effort should be made to continue, such experimentation in the hope of enlightening and expanding man's knowledge of himself. Several half seriously stated that I should run, not walk, to the nearest psychiatrist. (None present offered his services.)

The second question: “Would you, personally, take part in experiments that would lead to the creation of such unusual activity in yourself?”

Here, the pattern changed somewhat. About half stated their willingness to participate. Oddly, in this group were some of those who were most skeptical of the reality of such experiences. Of course, this gave me the opportunity to nudge gently those who were in favor of continued experiments. When it came to the dive into the cold, strange waters, let someone else do it. And in many ways, I don't blame them. If presented to me twelve years ago, I doubt that I would have volunteered.

Why did the group bother to assemble? Curiosity, perhaps. Or again, it may have been some of the evidential material that had been accumulated, I hope the latter. Here are some of the key reports from the notes, which aroused their interest.

9/10/58 Afternoon
Again, I floated upward, with the intent of visiting Dr. Bradshaw and his wife. Realizing that Dr. Bradshaw was ill in bed with a cold, I thought I would visit him in the bedroom, which was a room I had not seen in his house and if I could describe it later, could thus document my visit. Again came the turning in air, the dive into the tunnel, and this time the sensation of going uphill (Dr. and Mrs. Brad-shaw live in a house some five miles from my office, up a hill). I was over trees and there was a light sky above. Momentarily, I saw (in the sky?) a figure of a rounded human form, seemingly dressed in robes and a headpiece on his head (an oriental concept remains), sitting, arms in lap, perhaps cross-legged a la Buddha; then it faded. I don't know the meaning of this. After a while, the uphill travel became difficult, and I had the feeling that the energy was leaving, and I felt I wouldn't make it.

With this thought, an amazing thing happened. It felt precisely as if someone had placed a hand under each arm and lifted me. I felt a surge of lifting power, and I rushed quickly up the hill. Then I came upon Dr. and Mrs. Bradshaw. They were outside the house, and for a moment I was confused, as I had reached them before I got to the house. I didn't understand this because Dr. Bradshaw was supposed to be in bed. Dr. Bradshaw was dressed in light overcoat and hat, his wife in a dark coat and all dark clothes. They were coming toward me, so I stopped. They seemed in good spirits, and walked past me unseeing, in the direction of a smaller building, like a garage, Brad trailing behind as they walked.

I floated around in front of them, waving, trying to get their attention without result. Then without turning his head, I thought I heard Dr. Bradshaw say to me, “Well, I see you don't need help any more”. Thinking I had made contact, I dove back into the ground (?), and returned to the office, rotated into the body and opened my eyes. Everything was just as I had left it. The vibration was still present, but I felt I had enough for one day.

Important aftermath: we phoned Dr. and Mrs. Bradshaw that evening. I made no statement other than to ask where they were between four and five that afternoon. (My wife, upon hearing of the visit, said flatly it was not possible, could not be so because Dr. Bradshaw was home in bed sick.) With Mrs. Bradshaw on the phone, I asked the simple question. She stated that roughly at four twenty-five they were walking out of the house toward the garage. She was going to the post office, and Dr. Bradshaw had decided that perhaps some fresh air might help him, and had dressed and gone along. She knew the time by back-checking from the time they arrived at the post office, which was twenty minutes to five. It takes roughly fifteen minutes to drive to the post office from their house. I had come back from my trip to them at approximately four twenty-seven. I asked what they were wearing. Mrs. Bradshaw stated she was wearing black slacks, and a red sweater which was covered with a black car coat. Dr. Bradshaw was wearing a light hat and a light-colored topcoat. However, neither “saw” me in any way or were aware of my presence. Dr. Bradshaw had no memory of saying anything to me. The great point is that I had expected to find him in bed, and didn't.

The coincidences involved were too much. It was not important to prove this to anyone else. Only to me. It proves to me—-truly for the first time—-that there might well be more to this than normal science and psychology and psychiatry allow-—more than an aberration, trauma, or hallucination—-and I needed some form of proof more than anyone else, I am sure. It is a simple incident, but unforgettable.

In this visit to Dr. Bradshaw and his wife, the time of visit coincides with the physical event. The autosuggestion hallucination factor is negative. I expected to find Dr. Bradshaw in bed in the house, but did not do so and was puzzled by the inconsistency. Identical reports with conditions of actual events:

(1) Location of Dr. Bradshaw and his wife.
(2) Position of the two relative to each other.
(3) The actions of the two.
(4) Wearing apparel of the two.

Possibility of unconscious pre-knowledge through earlier observation of the above:

(1) Negative, had no information of their change in plans or time habits of post office visits.
(2) Indeterminate, consciously at least unaware of who walks first.
(3) Negative, would have no pre-knowledge of their walking across to the garage in such fashion.
(4) Indeterminate, may have observed both in similar dress, but expected to find only one (Dr. Bradshaw), in bedclothes.



posted on Nov, 16 2010 @ 05:09 PM
link   

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by Jezus
 


I'm not simplifying it at all, before you were born, you didn't exist, you didn't have a brain therefore you didn't have any sensation or even any perception of existence let alone the reality around you.


Well you are making a lot of unfounded assumptions but ONE thing is true. You didn't have the brain you do know. However, you need to understand the different between sensation and perception.

Sensation is the message created by your body and synthesized by your brain.

Perception is an abstract concept. It is a state of mind and the result of your consciousness receiving the message created by your brain.


Originally posted by awake_and_aware
I want to how you know this, if this is the case, and if you don't know, what makes you suggest or believe in afterlife hypothesis?


My extensive study of physiological psychology (biological brain chemistry), neuroscience, and cognitive linguistics in combination with an understanding of the fundamental nature of consciousness leads to the unavoidable conclusion that a non physical piece receives and responds to the message created by the brain.

You might wonder, what does linguistics have to do with this?

If you study linguistics, especially brain damage cases, it is much easier to understand the abstract nature of the mind and how the brain is developed based on you conscious reactions to sensation.



posted on Nov, 17 2010 @ 06:44 AM
link   
reply to post by Sci-Fi_entist
 


I think most of us know exactly what you mean. If there was only you, then most of your dreams would probably come true, but unfortunately you're sharing this planet with six billion other people who have similar dreams. They say Capitalism is a rat race, but can you say that spirituality is any different.
Just when you think your life is perfect, there's always another human being that puts a spanner in your works.



new topics

top topics



 
175
<< 15  16  17    19  20  21 >>

log in

join