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The Catholic Church: Deceptions and Control

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posted on Oct, 4 2010 @ 01:05 PM
To many, religion has been a source of support. Religion has provided millions with a structure for their life, stretching out a path ahead of them to look to and follow. Gathering under the roof of a church, in a positive environment has been supremely beneficial to many as well. Many people, at some point in their life have truly needed the mental and spiritual support that some churches can offer. The Catholic church, and other Christian religions seem to be benign. But what if you look deeper? To it's core, it's foundations, back to the beginning? Is there an ongoing effort to supress information and diving knowledge?

Jesus said, "The Pharisees and the scribes have taken the keys to knowledge and have hidden them."

The Gospel of Thomas: Saying 39

The above statement could be interpreted as, 'your leaders, as well as those in charge, and those who write your laws and beliefs are hiding from you the truth. Personally, I think this definitely applies to the Catholic Church. Why are the Vatican's private libraries private? Why begin to publish reprints or pdf versions of thier codices?

Above, I quoted the Gospel of Thomas, obviously it is not a canonnized book in the bible. And, there are those who claim there is good precedence for it. However, is it really a question of legitamacy? Or, is it because of the potential dangerous material that apocryphal books contain? I say dangerous, because a common theme in many apocryphal books is Gnosticism. The definition of gnosticism is: a religious movement characterized by a belief in gnosis, through which the spiritual element in man could be released from its bondage in matter: regarded as a heresy by the Christian Church (from the greek word 'gnosis' which means knowledge.

In the 13th century the Catholic church violently attempted to stomp out gnostic followers known as the Cathars, or Cathari. There is debate whether or not the church attempted a peaceful eradication of this group which was beginning to have a widespread following. I'm not sure there is a such thing as a peaceful eradication. The gospel of Thomas can be found in the Nag Hammadi library. The Nag Hammadi library, dated to the second century, is essentially 52 or so gnostic treaties. The were found buried, hidden away, probably because of the punishment for possessing "heretical" writings. Side note: There were many other groups other than the Cathars, such as Valentinians and Waldensians.

I digress...back to my point. The Catholic Church has and always will need an abundance of parishoners. Without followers there is no church. The more followers, the more power and control. This is the case for any corporation, government, or empire. Texts such as; the Book of Thomas, the Gospel of Thomas, The Secret Book of James, the Book of Enoch, etc. have some common traits. None of which, promotes the need for a church, or religion for that matter. by controlling the flow of knowledge, those in control remain in control.

Jesus said, "Rather, the kingdom is inside you and outside you. When you know yourselves, then you will be known, and will understand that you are children of the living Father...."

The Gospel of Thomas: Saying 3.

Jesus said, "Let one who seeks not stop seeking until one finds. When one finds, one will be disturbed. When one is disturbed, one will be amazed, and will reign over all."

The Gospel of Thomas: Saying 2.

Jesus said, "Do not lie or do what you dislike, since all things are clear before Heaven...."

The Gospel of Thomas: Saying 6.

"This is how you can aquire the kingdom of Heaven. If you do not acquire it through knowledge, you will not be able to find it."

The Secret Book of James: 4:19

These sayings among countless others encourage us to seek out knowledge. To search for ourselves, to try and understand our true selves, and that there is divinity within us all. It also speaks of individualism. This is why many scientist of the time had a gnostic approach to their spirituality. The ability to reconcile their beliefs with the pursuit of knowledge. The inquistions was just another attempt to stomp out any opposition the the church's iron fist mentality of control of the populations. The inquisitions which sporatically entailed large periods of time from the twelth century to the nineteenth century (Medieval, Spanish, Portugeese, and Roman inquisitions) persecuted anyone who sought out their own way spiritually. i.e. witchcraft, gnosticism, Judaism, science, and just about anything else viewed as being a threat.

"This is how you can aquire the kingdom of Heaven. If you do not acquire it through knowledge, you will not be able to find it."

The Secret Book of James: 4:19

The Catholic Church has always sought to control and manipulate information. In doing so, it has become a powerful religious and political organization with millions of members all over the world. It's early vise-like grip has forced the creation of many secret societies, among those within the Vatican themselves who secretly consider themselves to be followers of Thomas' teachings. Has it's rise to global power over the last two millenia had a positive impact on mankind? Or have they attempted to rob the masses of their ability to think for themselves, and find our own meaning of life? Have they distorted the teachings of Jesus and manipulated the bible for their own gain? Have they controlled the masses and hidden knowledge, deceiving us of our true quest in life?

The Dead Sea Scrolls give us another example of the Catholic Churches attempt to control knowledge and information. Authors, Baigent and Leigh contend that the Scrolls were kept under wraps for decades by a team dominated by Catholic scholars. They also contend that early Christians were intent on breaking Roman control of the Holy Land and returning it to it's rightful Judaic dynasty of which Jesus was a member.

The Dead Seas Scrolls help to give validity to books in the Bible such as: Genesis, Exodus, Ezekial, Psalms, Numbers, Deuteronomy and others. However, also contained in the scrolls are the Book of Noah, the Book of Jubilees, and the Book of Enoch all of which are deemed apocryphal. Of which the church finds various reasons to discount them. The Book of Enoch for instance, fills in the blanks left out by Genesis, answering many questions. It makes you wonder????

There is a lot more information I would like to add to this concerning our hidden past but I will wait and organize it in another post. I would also like to add, that I don't hate Christianity or Catholics, and am not attempting to insult anyone's religious beliefs or church. I think there is a place for church as a support system and that it is beneficial to many .


The Secret Book of James, The Gospel of Thomas, The Book of Thomas: as translated by Marvin W. Meyer.

The Dead Sea Scrolls Deception: by Michael Baigent and Richard Leigh

Wikipedia (for information on the inquisitions)

posted on Oct, 4 2010 @ 01:58 PM
I amstudying my beliefs as I have so many unanswered questions,I would like to know about these books!

posted on Oct, 4 2010 @ 02:04 PM
reply to post by condition9

That is the same reason that I sought out these books. They definitely give you a different perspective. Personally, I've always felt that we haven't been given access to all the information available. Some of this information may very well be in such apocryphal books that I mentioned. Although, not approved by the church, I'm not a big fan of other's telling me what I should and shouldn't read or believe.

posted on Oct, 4 2010 @ 02:30 PM
I agre however what are your conclusions noww? also, where do I get these studies how do you feel this applies to the way God and Jesus would told us?

posted on Oct, 4 2010 @ 02:43 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if The Roman Empire did not trick one of their own men into believing he was speaking to Jesus. Yeah, Saul on the road to damascus sees this shining light, and he's like, "who are you lord?" And honestly, if a heaven does exists, and if Jesus does come from Heaven, then anyone and EVERYONE should be able to identify and KNOW him, because it is in heaven that we all originated (those of us who have souls that is). So for Saul to ask who it was, tells me that it really wasn't Jesus he was speaking to, because his soul would have already known.

Could it be? Did they have HAARP/Blue Beam type of technology back then as well? I find it interesting that The Roman soldier, (who actually killed simon and peter with his bare hands) all of a sudden decided to do a 180 by changing his name to Paul, and fraudulently calling himself an Apostle, though he'd never walked with The Living Jesus Christ, and probably wouldn't have even been able to identify him in a line up if his life depended on it.

Apostle Paul is The 13th Apostle, and he single-handedly destroyed the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth. He was the one who said woman could not preach or hold high positions in the church, he was also the 'apostle' who spoke out against homosexuality, fornication, and basically set up the RULES for how church people should conduct themselves. It is something to think about, I mean, there are so many books that have been left out, but this guy has got like 4 or 5 books written, not to mention his lucky #13 Epistles.

Apostle Paul The Fraud

posted on Oct, 4 2010 @ 02:53 PM
reply to post by condition9

First, I'd like to say that I believe everyone should seek out their own beliefs. I'll also say that I'm by far a finished product. My beliefs and spirituality are constantly evolving. I will say that I believe that Jesus gave us some very important messages. Many of which have been buried by the church. His teachings seemed to be that we all have a divine spark within us, and that we should strive to understand ourselves. Only then will we be ready for the afterlife. Whereas, the church has beat it into everyone's heads that we must do only three things...accept Jesus as our savior, repent our sins (babtism), and die. Perhaps we will continually be brought back to this earth after we die until we get to the point where we are ready for the next step. Perhaps we won't get to move on until we have something worthwhile to contribute. I do believe that the bible is incomplete, but I'm not sure that even matters. Although, I feel like I'm a work in progress, I'm finally getting comfortable with my own faith because I'm searching inside myself and seeking out the answers to my questions.

posted on Oct, 4 2010 @ 03:00 PM
reply to post by leira7

Interesting ideas. That is why I have such a hard time putting my faith into text written in a book. Especially, a book that has been promoted by an organization that has invaded, murdered, and tortured. That's why I think it is important to try and find yourself and your own answers. Not that the bible is evil. I just think that religion is the ultimate divider. What better way to divide and conquer. The world is at odds with one another primarily due to religion. Most religions are 95 percent the same. It may be a few differently translated words in a book, but it's enough to start an argument. I think the world would be much better served if everyone would focus on seeking out their own answers, and accepting that everyone is different.

posted on Oct, 4 2010 @ 03:20 PM
I would also like to add that I don't think it was God's plan for us to be confined within any religion. I think at our core we are spiritual entities. Religion by and large promotes that it's okay to go about our daily lives as long as we have our faith and ask for forgiveness for our sins. I believe that it is our duty to find ourselves until we reach the point that we actually embody our beliefs and become them. Then we will be ready to transcend our bodies and move into the afterlife. Jesus himself hints at such ideas in many of the books I mentioned. It is that same free will ideas that the church sought to destroy.

posted on Oct, 4 2010 @ 03:28 PM
I like what you've said in yoru post OP, I think you're on the right track. The only thing I would add is that I don't believe the Catholic Church is the only perpetrator of lies and heresies anymore. Granted, at one time there was no other church but in modern times we have many false preachers who adhere to many different titles.

I will speak candidly and say that the Beast has many appendages and controls a great many people, I would almost go so far as to say that the vast majority of people in our modern society are corrupted by it. Our society flourishes on lies, sex, violence and suffering, much as the Roman Empire did thousands of years ago. This is evident in the fact that the closer you get to the truth, and the more you speak the truth, the stronger the opposition becomes, even to the point of hatred and violence from those who claim to be "Peaceful Christians". Keep your eyes open and your ears tuned and you will begin to see the world for what it is and you will see the true nature of the people in it. You will see the influence of the Beast everywhere.

posted on Oct, 4 2010 @ 03:36 PM
reply to post by Shadowflux

Thanks, and I tend to agree with your points as well. It was just the other day I was asked to explain my beliefs by several family members. What started as interesting debate turned into "persecute the guy that doesn't follow a set religion". I think for most people it is hard for them to wrap their mind around the idea of spirituality or faith without the construct of religion. Kind of like not being able the forest through the trees....

posted on Oct, 4 2010 @ 03:46 PM
reply to post by lambs to lions

I agree, but I think theres more to it than that, I think most people are corrupted and influenced by some kind of force that lives off suffering, hatred and constant praise and worship. I feel that there is a force which needs people to bow to it, beg it for forgiveness, willingly give themselves to it and vow to do it's will here on Earth. While I do feel that there are a great many people who are simply not ready to understand the truth and are not yet at a point, be it intellectual, philosophical or spiritual, to really understand the truth, I think there is something they have given themselves to that is actively corrupting them and is a major cause of the animosity in a situation like you described above.

Usually, people will not react so adversely when I'm explaining something to them that they don't know, it's not simply ignorance that causes such a reaction. I feel there is something that hates the truth and that is the force that rules this world.

posted on Oct, 4 2010 @ 04:03 PM
reply to post by Shadowflux

That's certainly possible. Or, perhaps the 'force' as you call it, already exists within us. Do you believe that everyone has the capacity for evil, or is it that they allow evil to become a part of them? Or is it all one in the same. I believe that we are all connected, maybe we are all one in some way. With that line of thinking, a divine force as well as a dark force must exist within us all as well. That is, if there are such forces...which I believe there are.

posted on Oct, 4 2010 @ 04:33 PM
reply to post by lambs to lions

I believe in the oneness of all things as well. The old debate of whether people are naturally good or evil, I believe, is too constrictive. Perhaps a good example would be a computer, which is made for neither good nor evil, but when infected with a botnet, worm or other such virus, can be used to commit the equivalent of evil, even if the user has no knowledge of it. But even that seems to not fully convey the concept. I think people are created because the Divine is a creative force, we have a purpose here on Earth but I don't really feel that purpose is why we were created.

We are all one, in many ways, because we all stem from the same source. I believe all of the universe is one in many ways and it is the goal of this negative, destructive force to convince us of our separation. It wants us to categorize ourselves into "Christian" "Jew" "Muslim" "Righteous" "Sinful", it wants us to turn on ourselves, it wants us to harm others because that is how we harm ourselves. It wants to hide from us the knowledge of the Truth, which is universal and applicable regardless of religious affiliation, external appearance or sexual orientation. If it is not applicable to all in this world then it is not a universal and divine truth.

So, perhaps I haven't really answered your question. I believe that people are naturally innocent and uncorrupted, I believe that they become corrupted, sometimes through no real fault of their own, just as many are taken by con artists every day. Some may go to church looking for salvation and enlightenment and will be led only to corruption and deceit. I think this negative force, of which we speak, operates on a level separate from our everyday reality, it's much more subtle, and many people will either not notice it or not believe in it all together. I don't simply mean "Satan" or the "Devil", I believe it is the polar opposite of the perfect, divine, creative force. It corrupts, separates and veils our eyes to our true existence, it does everything in it's power to keep us from the true understanding and knowledge of the divine.

posted on Oct, 4 2010 @ 04:55 PM
reply to post by Shadowflux

Well said. I don't think the general population is aware enough of themselves to think in these "outside the box" terms. Rather, they need a good guy and a bad guy. Structure. Religion fills such a need, and a bond is formed. Comfort follows. At this point there is no longer a need to think inward upon themselves or to question or seek. It is when they are questioned, or when they are confronted with something alien to their black and white belief system that invokes anger or a lashing out. This in some way may be connected to what you were saying about a dark force that tries vigorously to disguise the truth. Our truth, the Divine and our purpose. Thanks for your responses.

posted on Oct, 4 2010 @ 06:26 PM
There are a number of fallacies associated with Gnostic Christianity that casual readers fail to grasp, and those without a reasonable background in Christian, Jewish and Gnostic theology don't understand makes such a belief impractical at best, impossible at worst.

First, Gnosticism existed prior to Christ's time. It was an existing, and minority, view of the nature of things. There is little evidence in the "Gnostic Gospels" that they represent anything other than an effort to shoehorn Christ, who was a rather popular figure with a growing following, into the existing religion.

Secondly, it appears that, if Jesus was merely a Gnostic messenger, sent to deliver the "secret knowledge," that message was lost pretty quickly, and so his life and death meant nothing, which seems rather unlikely something that the "Gods" would allow to happen. If this was the "truth", it wouldn't have been lost, no matter what man might have done to it.

Finally, Gnosticism is 100% incompatible with Judaism. They are not reconcilable, except by twisting Gnosticism to make things fit, which is what the Gnostic "Christians" attempted to do. But one cannot twist Judaism, and the Law, to work under the auspices of Gnosticism. Therefore, there is no reason, whatsoever, for Jesus to have been born a Jew, and if he had, the first thing that he would have done would be to completely repudiate Judaism, which he did not.

Gnosticism is an effort to create an "elite" faith, for those who either fancy themselves clever enough to have figured things out, or to satisfy the craving that people have for being in on some sort of secret or mystery. The fact of the matter, though, is that God is not an elitist -- salvation and truth are available to everyone, and I can't imagine the upside of anything else, short of being able to fancy oneself clever.

posted on Oct, 4 2010 @ 06:45 PM
A mob of santimonious hypocrites and pederists,they promise gifts of God even miracles on the never-never yet at the sign of any true spiritual power like Archbishop Milingo had they are pulled out of the line and put under lock and key at the Vatican.If an Apostle were to return they would hunt him mercilously across the face of the earth with their black magic and voodoo technologies you cant have anyone with any true power thats a threat to their power.

posted on Oct, 4 2010 @ 07:33 PM
My question to you is this...when you stand before God at your judgment, what will be your response when God asks you, "How did you like my book?”

You quote all of these books, so my other question to you is this…Are you not open the the books of the bible but only those that were left out? Why do you limit yourself in only those "non-cannonized books" and not the cannonized books? I understand the quest for knowledge and want to read additional books but what about the Bible itself? Without the bible, the books you mentioned such as the Dead Sea Scrolls, the Gospel of Thomas, the Book of Enoch, etc. will have no significance....just a question. Also, I have to defend the Catholic traditions, as I feel you are attacking Catholics in general. So I am going to clarify some things you mentioned and add a little bit more to further your knowledge. Knowledge is Truth and like everyone always says, “Seek and Ye Shall Find" when you have false truths then you have false knowledge.

Catholic religion teaches scripture. The Mass is about reading the Good News, Gospels, which Jesus tells his people to do. Jesus began his preaching with the words: “This is the time of fulfillment. The kingdom of God is at hand, repent and believe in the gospel” (Mark 1:15). The gospel, the Good news, is that God wants to give mercy and forgiveness to all and we cannot receive God’s mercy unless we share it with others. “We must not imitate the servant who sought mercy from his master, then denied it to a fellow servant (Matthew18:23-25), or the rich man who let a beggar starve at his gate (Luke 7:11-17). It clearly states this in scripture. Jesus also told his disciples to go to all nations, “teaching them to observe all that I have commanded (Matthew 28:20)

As far as you quoting scripture, “The Pharisees and the scribes have taken the keys to knowledge and have hidden them” Jesus was truly telling the people that they were hiding knowledge and the keys because it was really happening. During this time, The Pharisees were taking the commandments and adding additional man-made commandments on top of their own and had imposed stringent requirements on people with the legal interpretations. This scripture has nothing to do with, “leaders or those in charge now.” The Catholic Church teaches the Ten Commandments as Jesus commanded.

Just an FYI….One must approach the bible in a contextual approach. The contextual approach states that “we can understand the message of an inspired book only when we have some awareness of who wrote them, when, and why they were written, and what the author intended to convey. “

posted on Oct, 4 2010 @ 08:05 PM
You make some good points. However, I think that you misunderstand the points of my thread. It seems, you may have perceived my views on the Catholic church as a threat to your beliefs. You responded not by answering the points that I stated, but instead by attacking my lack of faith in written words. I don't dismiss the Bible in any manner. I merely state that religion is a man made structure used to manipulate the masses. I stated that those that were in positions of power within the church purposely withheld information from the good book. I question their reasoning for this. Did they genuinely feel those apocraphyl books weren't valid or worthy of inclusion? Is it a coincidence that those books have a theme in common which seems to suggest free thinking and a honest pursuit for divine knowledge? Does not Matt himself state to "seek and you shall find"? It is also convienient that the church decided to include passages which were in heretical books, while ignoring others. Am I to ignore the churches murderous rampages that were done in His name? You ask me what I will say when my God asks me how I liked His book. I answer: perhaps I don't fear God in the same way that you do. I fear Him because I worry I might not be doing right by Him. But not because one religion or another tells me what my punishment will be if I don't do this or that. I do believe in the Bible in an educational sense. Like I said, I don't dismiss it at all. My mind tells me that it is beneficial and mostly accurate. However, I reserve the right to not rest my salvation on just a book alone. I believe it is a great tool and it accompanies my search for answers.As a matter of fact, since we have the Bible..then we don't even need religion. We can interpret it for ourselves and what it means to us. I believe it is our responsibility to find our own spirituality, to understand who we are, and to discover our purpose. Church or religion might work well for you as I hope that it does. As it does many. Peace be with you.

posted on Oct, 4 2010 @ 08:09 PM
And Also With You

posted on Oct, 4 2010 @ 08:29 PM
It seems there a few in this thread who have proven what we were talking about before. I think what people aren't understanding is that there is a difference between what Jesus taught and what "The Church" has done with it. The Gospels are full of quotes in regards to this, Jesus says many will use his name but He does not know them, Jesus tells us that people will hear and see but not understand, He refers to those "with ears to hear".

I can convince people that Jesus wants them to do any number of horrible things but that doesn't make it true, I can be fully convinced that Jesus wants me to discriminate and tell others they're going to hell but that doesn't make it true either.

There is divine truth and there is the "truth" that man uses to subjugate his fellow man and serve that which seeks to corrupt.

It doesn't take long to tell the difference between those that know and those that believe what they're told to believe.

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