Originally posted by IAMIAM
I understand your faith and why you believe as you do. I do not condemn you for it. It is not contrary to my beliefs, except for the fear based recruiting.

If you read the posts that I have made in other threads, you will find that I, too, am not particularly fond of fear based faith, which I would consider to be a rather weak faith, at best. Works for some people, I guess, like the "33 Minutes in Hell" guy, but it's not for me.

However, I'm not a Quaker, or another denomination which believes that there are no consequences for our actions. To expect God to just say "okay, you didn't listen to me, you acted terribly, but okay, you're in" is merely to ask him to acquiesce to evil, and I find that both unlikely and unpleasant. Of course, that's simply my view, I don't expect God to hold to my feelings :-)

I'd sooner that people chose God out of a desire to live in harmony with him and each other, but different strokes for different folks. If someone needs the threat of hell hanging over their head, they are welcome to it, but I am not the one to deliver it.

Re adjensen

Your quote (to IAM)

"For someone who claims that all ways are equal, you sure spend a lot of time arguing that some ways are not :-)"

In your usual way of confusing issues outside of you authoritarian holy bubble, you seem to be unaware of the difference between anarchy and liberal society.

Some people are not strong enough to stand alone, but need to huddle in the warmth of a group. Mankind has a great deal of instincts from the evolutionary period, when the herd with a strong, preferable violent, leader, was a survival necessity. But this is obsolete now, we can get along without totalitarian hierarchies, as various cultures have demonstrated on and off the last 2-3000 years.

But there are unfortunately still a few percent 'homo rapiens' born, who can't adjust to 'sapient' ways. Where these types earlier had a function of using their ego-drive for the benefit of their group, they now become raving sociopaths instead and throw as many pebbles as possible in the mechanisms of symbiotic society. Ridden with the obsession to become sandbox-bullies, nothing is below them. Open genocide, twisted ideology. Backstabbing and lying at the individual level.

Such individuals surf on the residues of mankind's herd-instincts.

adjensen. Formerly I suggested, that everyone interested enough should read NT acts and epistles to form their own opinion on my intensive pauline criticism. You were negative about this. Are you into some kind of 'educating the masses', where the herd needs authoritative 'guidance'? With you as one of the 'teachers', in possession of 'truth'?

PS For new readers: My opinion is, that both in practical attitude and ideology, Hitler and Paulus are almost identical. They also most likely have the same hidden masters.

Re jensen

your quote:

"....you lose."

Who's the referee?

Antiquity, like today, the agenda never alters:More Followers = More Money = More Power. They are not called "lambs" for nothing. Followers = "lambs". And how have they gotten away with it for all these years? Because of YOU (& Me), we didn't know, and so we followed those who said they knew. And that's how sheep and lambs are made. Now is the time to learn to ask THE RIGHT QUESTION(S) and so prepare ourselves to received THE RIGHT ANSWERS. And how will we know that they are the right answers? There is a barometer for knowing the Truth. And here is that barometer (as found on the pages of The Holy Bible King James Version ONLY:
111-222-333-444-555-666-777-888-999, this formula has always been on the pages of The Holy Bible and in one version of The Holy Koran, and one version of The Holy Torah, and on other UNrelated objects, one of them being our Planetary Configuration of 2 - Earth - 6....or 216. If you have understanding, you will get this matter.

Notes taken from college lecture: subject was religion origins.

Babylonian / Roman / Hebrew “money funnel” Economies
– seek to control populations (wide-area banking systems).

Phoenicians were “pre-Hebrew”, Semitic society groups that dominated and “governed” trade and finance
(3000 b.c. – 1000 b.c.) (Multi-nation influence).

Hebrew / Jewish “faiths” and “laws” created by “elitist” financial and trade groups (banking)
from various Semite “ruling class” post-Phoenician nations (no “national” borders).

Scholars from these groups “create” the Hebrew language (from Phoenician-Canaanite) and create a pre-Latin language (from Greek).

Latin to be used primarily by the trade and financial sub-groups (from different ethnic populations), and military forces.
Latin to be used to consolidate many Italic languages (mostly “spoken” languages, not “written” at major trade junctions, city of Rome, etc.).
Hebrew to be used by “elite” educated scholar groups (consolidated Semites).


“Old Testament” created and written by Hebrew “scholars and scribes”.

Attempt to control all other beliefs and consolidate into one belief - for trade and financial control (universal banking).
Consolidates different Semite languages.
Anti-Paganism
Used (and enhanced) many exaggerated “Pagan” stories and myths and folk lore to fit agenda and spread “Jewish” influence (mostly financial).
Jewish “expulsions” and “exiles” created (with ruling governments) to allow Jewish “colonizing” in “open” territories (infiltration of economies).
Creates “historical” “records” based on fears and legends.
Hebrew “envoys” and “scouts” (well-educated and multi-lingual) contact “target” territories
– attempt “Judea” conversions (economic goals) prior to military invasions (some success).

“New Testament” created and written by Hebrew “scholars and scribes” - 1st century by secret Roman agreements.

Hebrew Anti-Pagan efforts were failures.
Hebrew beliefs were not widely accepted by general (conquered) populations.
Hebrews create “anti-Jewish” (anti-Semitic) rivalries to set stage for a “new”, more popular “religions”.
Hebrews create un-provable “history” from mythical events and stories and fictional characters, and create new Date system (B.C., A.D.)
(not “officially” recognized by genuine Hebrew beliefs).
Roman govt and Hebrew Scholars “align” and “invent” the appearance of being “rivals” (includes military expeditions).
Roman govt accepts and begins codification of “Jewish” financial influences (banking systems).
Hebrew scholars consolidate and re-invent a Latin alphabet, for common use by populations (west).
“New Testament” written in more than one “language” to “accommodate” conquered populations.

Paganism was the predominant belief at the time.

Latin became predominant language (easily understood by conquered populations) in Roman Empire (west).

Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic were widely spoken (east and west).



Roman efforts to control society with a “new” belief (Christianity") – 2nd thru 5th century.

False flag “Laws” enacted to promote “Christianity” and demote “Judaism”.
“Historical” Myths of “Hebrew” slavery and mass discrimination created to enhance the “anti-Semitism” agendas.
“news” and “events” are created of Jewish massacres, expulsions, etc. (some truth)(sacrificial “investments”).
Allows for more “Jewish Expansion” into new territories (established new trade routes and merchant groups).
Christianity rejected by Arab factions - Roman East.
Christianity generally accepted by - Roman West.
Hebrew scholars “create” and write Islam beliefs to counter Christian beliefs.
Arab factions accept Islam and eventually adapt to “Jewish” financial systems.


Sub-Latin languages and “spin-off” Hebrew languages created and enhanced to allow better (religious) “manipulation” of localized populations,
- 6th century thru Middle Ages to present day 21st century.

Establishes strong “ethnic” groups (new nationalities and languages) through local inbreeding after intermingling.
Continuation of “culture – counter-cultures” agendas (religious) among “financially conquered” territories.
Continuation of “Hebrew suppression” myths and Jewish “suffering” to further the financial and power agendas.
Continuation of “governments” public anti-Semitism agendas and furthering of “Jewish” privately controlled economies and expansions.
Continuation of attempted “Judea” conversions (economic goals) prior to military invasions (some disguised as “Islam” or “Christian”) (some success).
“Dark Ages” created to mask solidification efforts of major “religions” (the ‘Big Three’), and to solidify “historical” record keeping.
Continuation of language manipulation for economic control agendas.
Establishment of “learning” institutions for further development of economic agendas (economic dominance through “education”).

I concluded there is much misunderstanding and ignorance under the nations about what God wants us to know. As the bible states not everybody is able to read the Holy scripture. Those whom are are normally willing to clarify it for us. Keep an ear in silence and you will hear.

Control by deceptions never last but where sad to have been. I can clarify a lot for you if you want to.

I will immediatly raise a thread in this thread.



Evil is detestable but I find it is heartbreaking seeing others letting in with it. EvIt disrupts the trust and thus the friendship.

Jesus is your brother and sister. What you doeth unto your brother you doeth unto Him.Your heart knows your flaws. That way you can repare. First you need a set of friends to start your life. Friendship. Luttle friendship. Do unto your brother and sister as you want to be done to yourself, that way you serve Jesus.

It should be easy to understand this teaching.


Knowledge*

Knowledge is very important to carry, the more you know the more you can make good men and can take care in your life. Grow in wisdom. It is only blessing.

The Scripture gives trust and explaines experiences.

Greetings! I have to go..

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Originally posted by lambs to lions


To many, religion has been a source of support. Religion has provided millions with a structure for their life, stretching out a path ahead of them to look to and follow. Gathering under the roof of a church, in a positive environment has been supremely beneficial to many as well. Many people, at some point in their life have truly needed the mental and spiritual support that some churches can offer. The Catholic church, and other Christian religions seem to be benign. But what if you look deeper?



To it's core, it's foundations, back to the beginning? Is there an ongoing effort to supress information and diving knowledge?


THE CORE IS THE WORD AND ADAM, FIRST MAN WHO BROUGHT RELIGION UPON HIS CHILDREN AND SO FORT; THOUGHT RELIGION IS ALWAYS FOUND WITHIN. ONE KNOWS WHEN ONE DOES WRONG. IF YOU FEEL YOU KEEP HANGING ON INTO SOMETHING, DON'T GIVE UP. KEEP ON FIGHTING UNTILL YOU WIN.

Jesus said, "The Pharisees and the scribes have taken the keys to knowledge and have hidden them."

NOT EVERYBODY CAN READ THE SCRIPT, BUT THEY WHO CAN SHOULD BRING FORTH THE MESSAGE TO MEN.

The Gospel of Thomas: Saying 39

The above statement could be interpreted as, 'your leaders, as well as those in charge, and those who write your laws and beliefs are hiding from you the truth. Personally, I think this definitely applies to the Catholic Church. Why are the Vatican's private libraries private? Why begin to publish reprints or pdf versions of thier codices?


THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH KNOWING TRUTH, TRUTH IS GOD'S FOR US ALL TO KNOW. WHEN YOU KNOW THE TRUTH OF SOMETHING BAD THAT HAPPENED THAT SHOULD BE KNOWN TOO. WHEN THEY HOLD TRUTH FOR THEMSELVES THEY SHOULD GIVE YOU A COURSE IN LIFE FOR YOU TO FOLLOW TO GET TO KNOW WHAT YOU'VE ASKED. THE DEVIL IS ALSO AROUND WHEN THERE IS SPOKEN ABOUT TRUTH SO PEOPLE CAN BE MISLEAD LEAVING YOU A MATTER UNKNOWN;

Above, I quoted the Gospel of Thomas, obviously it is not a canonnized book in the bible. And, there are those who claim there is good precedence for it. However, is it really a question of legitamacy? Or, is it because of the potential dangerous material that apocryphal books contain? I say dangerous, because a common theme in many apocryphal books is Gnosticism. The definition of gnosticism is: a religious movement characterized by a belief in gnosis, through which the spiritual element in man could be released from its bondage in matter: regarded as a heresy by the Christian Church (from the greek word 'gnosis' which means knowledge.

In the 13th century the Catholic church violently attempted to stomp out gnostic followers known as the Cathars, or Cathari. There is debate whether or not the church attempted a peaceful eradication of this group which was beginning to have a widespread following. I'm not sure there is a such thing as a peaceful eradication. The gospel of Thomas can be found in the Nag Hammadi library. The Nag Hammadi library, dated to the second century, is essentially 52 or so gnostic treaties. The were found buried, hidden away, probably because of the punishment for possessing "heretical" writings. Side note: There were many other groups other than the Cathars, such as Valentinians and Waldensians.

I digress...back to my point. The Catholic Church has and always will need an abundance of parishoners. Without followers there is no church.

THE CHURCH IS MANKIND, HOW STRONG IS OUR FOUNDATION, THE WALLS, THE ROOF?


The more followers, the more power and control. This is the case for any corporation, government, or empire. Texts such as; the Book of Thomas, the Gospel of Thomas, The Secret Book of James, the Book of Enoch, etc. have some common traits. None of which, promotes the need for a church, or religion for that matter. by controlling the flow of knowledge, those in control remain in control.

Jesus said, "Rather, the kingdom is inside you and outside you. When you know yourselves, then you will be known, and will understand that you are children of the living Father...."

The Gospel of Thomas: Saying 3.

JESUS said, "LET ONE WHO SEEKS NOT STOP SEEKING UNTIL ONE FINDS. WHEN ONE FINDS, ONE WILL BE DISTURBED. WHEN ONE IS DISTURBED, ONE WILL BE AMAZED, AND WILL REIGN OVER ALL"

The Gospel of Thomas: Saying 2.

Jesus said, "Do not lie or do what you dislike, since all things are clear before Heaven...."

The Gospel of Thomas: Saying 6.

"This is how you can aquire the kingdom of Heaven. If you do not acquire it through knowledge, you will not be able to find it."

The Secret Book of James: 4:19

These sayings among countless others encourage us to seek out knowledge. To search for ourselves, to try and understand our true selves, and that there is divinity within us all. It also speaks of individualism. This is why many scientist of the time had a gnostic approach to their spirituality. The ability to reconcile their beliefs with the pursuit of knowledge. The inquistions was just another attempt to stomp out any opposition the the church's iron fist mentality of control of the populations. The inquisitions which sporatically entailed large periods of time from the twelth century to the nineteenth century (Medieval, Spanish, Portugeese, and Roman inquisitions) persecuted anyone who sought out their own way spiritually. i.e. witchcraft, gnosticism, Judaism, science, and just about anything else viewed as being a threat.

"This is how you can aquire the kingdom of Heaven. If you do not acquire it through knowledge, you will not be able to find it."

This is not intended to be insulting, nor a jab at anyone, but something that has always been a question in my mind, even after reading, researching, and much prayer is...What are we seeking salvation from? Are we seeking salvation from being human, salvation from being deceived, or are we seeking salvation to allow our minds to continue on the path which the leaders have deemed we follow?

Don't we have memries of a conversion in our years as a Child? God searched for us to become one with Him in Christ but this happens early as 6 years old. We lack fascination.