J-13 and XXJ!!!

Originally posted by Russian

Originally posted by WestPoint23
we have nothing to fear by the time the chinese get the J-13 15-20 years rom now we weill ave something better than the F-22

Accutaly US gets new aircraft fighters every 25 years or so.

And you never know what will be left of the world in 20 years.

Out,
Russian

Well, about every 20 years, and what ever aircraft it is after the F-22, I expect it to be another world beater, and the rest of the world will lag behind, trying to catch up, and it's not a question if they have the technology (it is for some countries), but it's whether or not they will be able to fund it.

Originally posted by partykid
Russian, your signature explains only one thing - you dont know nothing about Chechnya. Those people are pressed by our government, this country itself cannot defend, we aint giving them peace, thats why they are searching for an answer turning to terrorism. I think you have a lack of knowledge in our politics. Hate people shouting out doubtful information without thinking.

Sorry guys for offtopic, i had to say this.

[edit on 9-9-2004 by partykid]

In terms of the military, I may disagree with Russian, but in this instance, he is absolutely correct, down with those chechan bastards, likewise down with al-queida, down with Osama, and down with every single #ing terrorist supporter, they brought this fight upon themselves, and they will lose.

What will happen to China's commitment towards the PAK-FA programme ???????

I wouldn't discount the Chinese from coming up with excellent war machines in the next few years. Remember, a lot of countries do possess the knowledge and industrial base to produce the best the US has on offer, it is only a matter of priority. In most cases, it is not just the aircraft, but the industrial base that is required to develop and maintain the project that hampers the full progression. The chinese are well on the way to developing a highly advanced indutrial base. Hell, even toys have manufacturing tolerances that rival space craft.

F-22 should "alert" if not scare any opponent....

And a question for the Russians..don't you have intellectual property rights to the designs of the planes you sell to China??
They cannot by law market jets which incorporate foreign designs w/o respective permssions..

they purchase the license... however they usually pay a little extra for the permission to mount their own weaponry on the russian planes.

Well Well Well...seems to me that J-XX (J-13) is getting famous day by day even with the very little information out there about it. I know a bit too, I have also go a wind tunnel design & artistic impression pictures on my Hard Disk.
Some of u believe that Chinese have inferior Military Aviation development compared to Russia. Those some of you are wrong. Many Russian scientist fled to China after fall of Soviet Union & many still are. Russian military aviation got the boom when they got German scientists & engineers, but almost all of them are dead & those who r alive dnt knw wheather they r living or dead. Mikayon Gorowich (MiG) cop. couple of years ago warned Russian governmet of decreasing no. of expert Fighter Jets Makers. The report also stated that many scientist now work for Chinese military firms & all those origional engineers who worked on MiG-29 are either dead or retired. Hence Russia is loosing its experts.

Anyways the point here is J-XX. J-XX is not coming from out of the blues. It has evolved. The concept was pretty old but only came to be possible now. Chinese got out of 2nd Gen jets in early 1990s.
There 1st 3rd Gen fighter is FC-1/JF-17 a joint venture with Pakistan. These fighters r due in 2006 & would be competeble to USA's F-16s (only inferior to F-16C/D Block 50+) & Russian MiG-29.

There 3.5th Gen fighter is J-10 (F-10) which is much more advanced than JF-17 & are competeble to USA's F-16C/D Block 50+ (in future will be superior to even Block 60), Russian MiG-29 Fulkrum MKI , Russian Su-27 & Mirage2000-5 of France. J-10 is based on Israeli Levi project which was being made with the help of USA. Israel later abondand the project & transfered the blue plans to China giving away significant information on USA technology.

During the developments of FC-1/JF-17 & J-10 China realized that their new jets would be inferior to Su-30,34,35 & 37 MKIs. Hence they started a simaltanious work on J-X (not J-XX or J-13/J-14). J-X is a light combat aircraft superior to Russian Su-30MKI & rest of the series. Mean while

Chinese scientis pursued the J-XX project on papers & board. The idea was to make a pure 5th gen jet. This study lead Chinese to also build WS-10 engines & newer advanc Radars. WS-10 is right now one of the best in the world. With success in FC-1/JF-17 & J-10 project Chinese govt approaved J-X & J-XX project. J-XX was approaved as counter measures to Indo-Russian joint venture PAK-FA. But PAK-FA is built on the bases of Su-40 birkut AC which failed even as a technology demonstrator, so Sukhio has not given any assurance that the PAK-FA too would have any success. On the other hand CAC successfuly made design for stealth wind tunnel for J-XX with the help of some of the Russian engineers. It has been tested by computers as well. Right now J-XX (J-13) & J-X prototype are under construction. J-XX prototype will fly in 2010 while J-X is schedual soon as well probably by 2006-7.

Some un-offical information from Chinese engineers is that the J-XX will be inferior to F-22s but will be directly competeble to JSF-35, EF-2000, Rafale & a bit superior to PAK-FA.

It has been now learnt that FC-1/JF-17 & J-10 r just technology give away AirCrafts for China (& Pakistan)...they will be a stop gap till J-X & J-XX come out. JF-17 & J-10 will also be subject to export (Pakistan will only export JF-17 while may opt fot ToT of J-10 only for its use)....by 2015 to 2020 both PLAAF & PAF will be opperating on J-X & J-XX as their primary Fighters. J-XX would be Air to Air defence AirCraft (but it would be a multi-role capabel as well) while J-X will be a multi-role ground attack Air Craft.

Meanwhile both Pakistan & China r upgrading the life span & performace of their J-7 (Pakistan's F-7) & Q5 (Pakistan's A-5)....F-7s r regarded as mini fighting falcons (F-16s) by PAF pilots & Q-5D upgrade is considered as one of the best ground attack AirCraft in the world. D varient is even better than Russian Su-25.

So u see China has never been behind, its just their advancements have been ignored. Their 2nd gen fighters have been upgraded to 3rd gen performamce standards. F-7, Q5, JH-7, J-8 r by no means 2nd gen fighters any more. They r 3rd gen now.
Q5 backed by Air power can even destroy USA's Abrahms Tanks.

I would like to post J-XX pic here but I dnt knw how to do it, i mean i dnt knw if i can post pics from my hard disk. Besides the pic of actual look J-XX will have is not in jpeg or jpg form so i wont be able to post it here any ways.

I'll email u the pics if ur interested. My email is [email protected]

Here are some pics of the XXJ's that I found on Google image.
Below that is some information I found.

J13


XXJ3


XXJ2


XXJ3?


Unsure


XXJ/J-14 article

XXJ/J-14 An F-22 style wind turrel model of XXJ was showned briefly in an AVIC I promotional video at the 2002 Zhuhai Airshow. First disclosed by US Office of Naval Intellegence (ONI) in 1997, XXJ (J-14 or Type D?) is a 4th generation fighter to enter the service around 2015. Both CAC/611 Institute and SAC/601 Institute are working their own designs for a large twin-engine multi-role fighter with enhanced stealth capability and maneuverability comparable to American F-22. It was speculated that 601 Institute has been working on designs based on conventional layout while 611 Institute has been working on designs based on canard/tailless delta wing plus belly air intake layout since early 90s. There was a third "triplane" layout which features canard foreplanes in addition to the conventional layout. However this configuration is believed to have been eliminated. Currently it appears that the 601/SAC have won the competition with their F-22 style configuration. However it is still unclear whether the aircraft will be able to fly in the next 5-7 years if everything goes smoothly. XXJ was initially planned to be powered by two 8,500kg/RD-33 class "medium thrust" turbofan engines with trust-vectoring nozzles to fullfill its high maneuverability requirement. A prototype of the trust-vectoring nozzle was displayed at Zhuhai Airshow by China Aeronautical Establishment/606 Institute in 2000. Consequently XXJ would have a 10t empty weight and a 15t normal TO weight. Now it appears that XXJ may be powered by more powerful 12,500kg/AL-31F class "high thrust" turbofan engines which results in a normal TO weight exceeding 20t, making it a true heavy weight fighter. The aircraft will incoporate an advanced FBW system based upon the Active Control Technology developed by 601 Institute and tested on its J-8IIACT technology demonstrator. Russian assistance in this project is expected too in terms of softwore support for calculating the RCS of various designs. The overall performance of XXJ is thought to be superior to EF-2000 and Rafale (stealth & agility) but still inferior to F-22 (electronics & supercruise).

[edit on 13-3-2005 by makeitso]

[edit on 13-3-2005 by makeitso]

The 1st small pic is actualy of F-104 star fighter model with JSF-35 model...2nd & 3rd r J-XX but that was just made for a single day for presentation to Chinese president..later it was taken to some Chinese military show & than to a mesum. Its not the actual look. (I have got the real wind tunnel or body design look..I'll post it here later)

4th one seems like India's Stealth AirCraft. It has never been officialy acknowledged & is considered as roumers spread by some Indian kid....India has no use of such AirCraft as they r alreay working on PAK-FA.
Back some timea ago the pic said MCA (which is a project India is looking into) but the pic is not of MCA as Indians denied as paper or practical work on MCA. No design has been laid down yet.

If it isnt the Indian MCA project than it is the stealth bomber China was working on. But it remaind confined to papers. never got practical.

Originally posted by Stealth Spy
What will happen to China's commitment towards the PAK-FA programme ???????

China never committed to PAK-FA..they rejected any financial partnership as well...when potential investors come to knw that PAK-FA is actulay based on S-40 Birkut technology demonstrator project which failed they pulled out, than Russians invited Indians & Indians agreed. Even before PAK-FA went on the board, China had finished the lay out plan for J-XX & J-XX prototype is now under construction while India & Russia still havent made up their minds on what to have on & what not to. PAK-FA went into physical development last yr & hasnt had much of an advancement compared to J-XX....China new the project would be slow so they never got into it.

China is actualy looking to apart it self from Russian military aviation & is making one of its own. Besides that Pakistan has promissed every possible help from the west (Europe) in regards to J-XX, it is said France has shown some interest also the Italians. These military aviation giants r not willing to help Russia in any ways. According to Janes J-XX will be superior to PAK-FA & leave the Russian aviation industry behind, mean while Janes also stated that Chinese have un officialy said that J-XX would be exported only to few selected countries which Include Pakistan & Israel (Israel will get them if USA allows them)...mean while China is looking to open its military arms market in middle east through the help of Pakistan. As KSA-AF & UAE-AF mainly consists of leased PAF officials to run the force they buy mainly what PAF prefers hence J-XX has potential export market but PAK-FA at the moment has not export market & India & Russia may be the only countries to use.

MAKEITSO

The one you are unsure of is a US design - it is known as the switchblade.

It uses 3 positions of variable geomatry wings to allow for a high speed configuration (with the wings all the way forward which gives it a highly swept delta wing configuration), an ultra manueverable configuration (with the wings halfway forward, which gives it a FSW configuration), and a conventional layout with the wings all the way out.

So this is "switchblade"??? The Indians have been posting this pics on different forums calling it their project "MCA"...lol..I should have known. I have read alot abt switch blade but never cared to see its pic. Now have.

The technology has actualy been driven from X-29 forward wing air-craft...this one though can go both (Forward & back ward..actualy a bit straight)....this is a same class aircraft as of SR-71. This was mostly to be used by NASA & USAF wanted to use it as high altitude recon Air Craft like SR-71 & U-2.
But later DARPA upgraded this AC to fighter/bomber as well which could fly at high altitude at the speed of MACH-3 Dash.

Although there have been many reports on switch blade, authorities denie its existance.

Do google or yahoo search on switchblade u'll find more.

All the picture you have posted do not like J-13 a little. I have said that MiG1.44 must be noticed. Would you have no care that MiG 1.44 has not appeared for a long time? look at this picture which show the aircraft just like double J-10 + MiG 1.44. No matter from J-7MF J-8ACT J-10 etc. which all prove the next generation of Chinese fighter must be like MiG 1.44
Su-27 in China has been halted production



Of course there are two type of next gen. Chinese fighter maybe. one is like Mig1.44 another is equal to JSF.

Originally posted by SABRE
So this is "switchblade"??? The Indians have been posting this pics on different forums calling it their project "MCA"...lol..I should have known. I have read alot abt switch blade but never cared to see its pic. Now have.

The technology has actualy been driven from X-29 forward wing air-craft...this one though can go both (Forward & back ward..actualy a bit straight)....this is a same class aircraft as of SR-71. This was mostly to be used by NASA & USAF wanted to use it as high altitude recon Air Craft like SR-71 & U-2.
But later DARPA upgraded this AC to fighter/bomber as well which could fly at high altitude at the speed of MACH-3 Dash.

Although there have been many reports on switch blade, authorities denie its existance.

Do google or yahoo search on switchblade u'll find more.

An interesting part of the design you may notice is how the engines air intakes and exhaust are on top o fthe aircraft.

Every part of an aircraft design has a purpose and this is no different. It is made this way to dampen the sonic boom of the aircraft.

As I , and many other people have said over and over again, stealth is not just about radar. It involves EVERYTHING - this includes Radar, thermal, visual, electronic, and accoustical signatures.

I have already pointed out how flawed the Mig 1.44 is, but if everyone asks nicely I'd be happy to point it out for you all again

I doubt switch blades existance & even if it does I dnt see anu use of it with U-2 & SR-71 BlackBird serving in Recond department & B-1, B-2 serving in bombing department.

Anyways abt MiG-1.44;

1st its not MiG-1.44 but actualy MiG-1.42

2nd. Its not a fighter but a technology demonstrator

3rd. It has failed to perform the requirments & technology from it might be transfered to PAK-FA (Based on S-40 Birkut tech demon) that is if Mikayoun Growich Cop (MiG Co) has been invited.

Note: Both S-40 Birkut & MiG-1.42 have been shut down. Russians dnt want to waiste money on them any more & Sukhio Cop (makers of Su-27/30) have already warned Russia & India that PAK-FA may also fail or it wont turn out as expected. But still India & Russia r pursuing it.

J-XX is not based on MiG-1.42....the above pics r just rough work..its ugly..some times ago some one from CAC released the prigional look of J-XX. I have lost the pic but it still might be available at www.defencetalk.com

J-XX according to janes & other defence experts is going to be better than PAK-FA & will join the league of JSF-35 on Air to Ground basis & EF-2000 on Air To Air Bases. France & Italy are already showing interest on supplying some parts for J-XX (e.g: Computers & softwares)...this was done through Pakistan when Pakistani president visited Italian defence deligation & went to France....with European help J-XX would become more advance than PAK-FA. So there was no point for chinese to go after MiG-1.42, S-40 Birkut or PAK-FA.

Originally posted by SABRE
China never committed to PAK-FA..they rejected any financial partnership as well...when potential investors come to knw that PAK-FA is actulay based on S-40 Birkut technology demonstrator project which failed they pulled out

Yeesh.

What the heck are you babbling about, man?

1. PAK-FA is not based on the S-40, whatsoever.

2. Russians never approached China for PAK-FA project, and nor was it summarily rejected by them.


PAK-FA went into physical development last yr & hasnt had much of an advancement compared to J-XX....China new the project would be slow so they never got into it.

Rampant speculation based on wet dreams.


Besides that Pakistan has promissed every possible help from the west (Europe) in regards to J-XX, it is said France has shown some interest also the Italians.

Wah wah, so Pakistan's going to bring her expertise to this project as well? And wherefrom orifice did this come out of?

PS: Both France and Italy are denied by vary nature of sanctions (to say nothing about policy) for development of this aircraft. Even if by some way they they were to do so, they certainly wouldn't need Pakistan as an intermediary.


According to Janes J-XX will be superior to PAK-FA & leave the Russian aviation industry behind, mean while Janes also stated that Chinese have un officialy said that J-XX would be exported only to few selected countries which Include Pakistan & Israel (Israel will get them if USA allows them)...

Ok you're now officially on the crystal meth. Can I have an exact reference and quote from James for this absurd claim?


mean while China is looking to open its military arms market in middle east through the help of Pakistan.

Wow, they are? Has this astounding development manifested itself in any way outside the confines of your imagination?


J-XX is not based on MiG-1.42....the above pics r just rough work..its ugly..some times ago some one from CAC released the prigional look of J-XX. I have lost the pic but it still might be available at www.defencetalk.com

No credible pics of the J-XX project has been released. Much 'fan art' has eminated by artists from the various Chinese fora, but apart from whatever artistic value it holds, they ain't worth the paper they'd be printed on.


J-XX according to janes & other defence experts is going to be better than PAK-FA & will join the league of JSF-35 on Air to Ground basis & EF-2000 on Air To Air Bases

LOL

Source for this as well?

-Raj


[edit on 14-3-2005 by rajkhalsa2004]

Originally posted by SABRE
I doubt switch blades existance & even if it does I dnt see anu use of it with U-2 & SR-71 BlackBird serving in Recond department & B-1, B-2 serving in bombing department.

I don't know what you mean by doubting it's existance? If you mean the design, well, you are just wrong. Check the US patent office. It is not a black project.

If you mean an actual working aircraft, then I tend to agree with you.

The switchblade would not perform any of the tasks that the planes you mentioned do. It would be a high speed fighter bomber, able to fly undetected through enemy airspace at great speed, and atttack a ground target while also being able to go head to head with any enemy fighter it came across.

I don't know where you are getting the recon mission - I have never heard of that

Originally posted by Stealth Spy
Artists impression

Not a very stealthy looking airplane - too many radar reflecting angles. Plus, it just looks like an American F-15 (rear) and F-18 (front) morphed together. How is something like this supposed to be in the same league as an F-22 or F-35? Not.

Originally posted by centurion1211
Not a very stealthy looking airplane - too many radar reflecting angles. Plus, it just looks like an American F-15 (rear) and F-18 (front) morphed together. How is something like this supposed to be in the same league as an F-22 or F-35? Not.

Yup

all you need to do is look at the wings with those big 90 degree angles, and the enginge exhaust with the conventional layout and it is clear this aircraft is not very stealthy.

while your critique of the drawing is spot on I do wonder whether the real plane will bear any resemblance to it at all, you only have to look at all the 'fantasy' ATF drawings the US corporations issued in the mid/late '80's which threw people off the scent of the F-22 nicely.

[edit on 14-3-2005 by waynos]