J-13 and XXJ!!!

ya.. well.. the chinese r has very good at it...... if they got anything.. and they will build it their own... cheaper, and better...ie su 27

I agree with you that they will copy and may produce them cheap but for the better part don't know about that the J-10 which they have now is not even equal to the F-16 which was created about 30 years ago.

Very interesting thread....

But there's something that hasn't really been brought up

(from Russian's links)

He assured the publication
that most pilots would never think of using this capability, which was
included during the design phase, by an aeronautical engineer who was the
son of a Party bureaucrat, and who "knew he would never have to fly the
plane". Computer simulations initially indicated that, following the
jettisoning of the wings, the aircraft would "depart controlled flight, no
longer flying, so much as it would be plummeting", and would subsequently
impact the ground at high velocity, to the severe detriment of both itself
and its pilot. However, after a spirited discussion, allegedly resulting in
threats of imprisonment of computer programmers, the simulation was
modified, to indicate the J-13's performance was not adversely affected by the loss of both wings.

How reliable can anyone expect the j-13 to really be if the simulation was re-coded around an obvious design flaw? I know it was said that the pilots would not be likely to use this, but it begs the question: "What else in the simulation was modified to produce the expected results?"

There was an incident with an Israeli pilot which was flying an F-15 and he had a mid air collision with another plane and his entire right wing was blown off but amazingly he flew the plane back to base under control with one wing and was able to land the reason for this the F-15 has a very wide body so it can glide or still have lift

Thats an incredible story, absolutely amazing. Would I be right in assuming that the F-15 in question was a fairly recent model with fly by wire controls? I ask because I understand that FBW would certainly make the aircraft controllable with damage that would be catastrophic for conventionally controlled types, as well as the aerodynamic properties of the fuselage that you mentioned?

Umm...I am not really sure what year but it was in the mid 90's don't know if they had FBW then plus its still amasing no matter what flying a fighter jet with one wing and being able to land plus all experts agree flying with one wing is aerodynamically impossible well I guess they were proven wrong

Aint that the truth. I once read in Flight International that with FBW you could fly a housebrick, maybe they were nearer the truth than I imagined

Originally posted by WestPoint23
There was an incident with an Israeli pilot which was flying an F-15 and he had a mid air collision with another plane and his entire right wing was blown off but amazingly he flew the plane back to base under control with one wing and was able to land the reason for this the F-15 has a very wide body so it can glide or still have lift

The event you speak of occurred in 1983 during dogfight training with an A-4. The A-4 crashed but the F-15, having lost its right wing, managed to land safely.

www.f-16.net...

Damn in 1983 well I was s=wrong on the time I don't think they had FBW back then if they didn't then the F-15 is one hell of a bird the pilot also had to be good to but a jet that can fly with one wing

I have confident the NEW J Fighter will be equal to the USA's RAPTOR

The reason is................................................................................................
.......................................................................................................................
China is very good STEALING and BUYING CLASSIFIED USA MILITARY STUFF

Interesting article that didn't make the NATIONAL NEWS
----------------------------------------------------------------------
7 indicted in export of military circuitry

The U.S. accused them of using two Mount Laurel firms for illegal shipments to China. Four of them were detained.

www.philly.com...

Originally posted by WestPoint23
I agree with you that they will copy and may produce them cheap but for the better part don't know about that the J-10 which they have now is not even equal to the F-16 which was created about 30 years ago.

It could be, bit hard to compare since the J10 hasn't exactly seen any combat of any type. But the Chinese have only started to modernise their armed forces. The J10 may not be much right now, but I guess everyone has to start somewhere.

Originally posted by necro99
Dude, it's not even sure you can MAN the F-22. At 300 Million a piece it's hard to churn em out by the hundreds, eh?

ok im wrong..its 200 million a peice and they lowered the number ordered again.

[edit on 21-7-2004 by namehere]

I'm an avionics technician on the F-15, flight controls and enviromental system specialist. The one thing I can tell you is no F-15 has a true fly by wire system. We have what is called a control augmentation system. It's a computed electronic flight controls with mechanical flight controls as the primary system. To explain it in simple terms it's like having a computer controlled power steering. It adds and subtracts surface deflection depending on airspeed and altitude. It's also more precise than the mechanical system. The mechanical does about the same thing but using uncomputed raw data. It's basically a buffer system to an extent. The bird in question did have this system as do all F-15s except for the F-15E which uses a triplex CAS system. Opposed to the dual redundant system of the F-15 A-D models.

What all of you are not mentioning (and I am sure this will start a major fit on the part of some) is that Janes called this a fourth generation design. It will not be an equal to the raptor. It might, if the Chinese work real hard be equal to an F-15, which will be 40+ years old by the time the PLAAF gets this thing.

It won't even be an equal to the Eagle - they need serious work on their radar, weapons - electronics in general - to even come close to the F-15.

Originally posted by aerospaceweb

Originally posted by WestPoint23
There was an incident with an Israeli pilot which was flying an F-15 and he had a mid air collision with another plane and his entire right wing was blown off but amazingly he flew the plane back to base under control with one wing and was able to land the reason for this the F-15 has a very wide body so it can glide or still have lift

The event you speak of occurred in 1983 during dogfight training with an A-4. The A-4 crashed but the F-15, having lost its right wing, managed to land safely.

www.f-16.net...

I was present at WTI for some exercises in the late 80's. An f-18 driver had some kind of problem with a live fire bombing exercise. Essentially he blew his own tail section to near annihilation. When I saw this thing, my intial reaction was he had some how been hit by a sidewinder.

He landed the thing, and they put on a truck to go back to Chery Point and be fixed. I couldn't beleive it was fixable, let alone landable.

Our weapons systems are without equal.

I thought the Pentagon often underestimates the enemy until I heard these speculations. China is along way from our level of technology but, I believe if war ever came between us. There will be many surprised faces in this discussion forum. Your information is incomplete, and old. The main web site that track China's military still report that 500 hundred missles face out toward Taiwan. I have read that number for many years. I believe that the Chinese will have a little shock and awe when the world realizes just how far along they are. Take for example, by some estimates the China will have up to ten new subs in service by the end of the decade, and they will have two more Advanced Destroyers delievered by Russia. There have also been reports of at least four hull have been laid for large sealift cargo ships. Soon the notion that the Chinese not having enough sealift for an invasion will be laughable. They are also continously updating T-98 tank. They will never catch us because we aren't willing to spend ourselves into poor house to stay ahead, and our R&D structure is vastly better. However, what is scary, we live in the information age. Where knowledge is free flowing, point one, and if you haven't noticed that military inovation has exponential curve of late in China, point two.

Originally posted by namehere

Originally posted by necro99
Dude, it's not even sure you can MAN the F-22. At 300 Million a piece it's hard to churn em out by the hundreds, eh?

ok im wrong..its 200 million a peice and they lowered the number ordered again.

[edit on 21-7-2004 by namehere]

Actually the price depends upon the quantity, not the other way around. It is 300 mill a piece becuase the governemtn wants only a set amount. The project cost was 40 billion, distributed among some odd number of planes. If the governement requested more planes, the project cost will be distributed over a greater number of planes reducing the cost per plane.

j12

Russian, your signature explains only one thing - you dont know nothing about Chechnya. Those people are pressed by our government, this country itself cannot defend, we aint giving them peace, thats why they are searching for an answer turning to terrorism. I think you have a lack of knowledge in our politics. Hate people shouting out doubtful information without thinking. Sorry guys for offtopic, i had to say this.

[edit on 9-9-2004 by partykid]