Obamacare goes into effect, side effects already appearing

reply to post by Curiousisall


banks are open but are they lending like they us to? no

the majority of wealth has dissappeard from this country there are trillions of dollars that are being held onto or have been transfered to other bank financial and banking systems across the globe

wealth being money goes to where the money is thats a fact money takes money to make.

look at the rates and returns for the past 25 years.

money markets use to pay well i could have thrown 100,000 bucks into a money market and made 6% a month off it thats 6000 bucks a money thats 60,000 bucks a year

or i could have thrown a 100,000 bucks into any mutal funds and it could have return a millions bucks.

a savings account use to earn the investor 6% a year on whatever amount they put into it.

those are things that you cannot do today the biggest reason to these facts that we live into day the reasons are financial interference from the government.

this was back when america acutally was a friendlier place to do business and a relative safe political environment this is also when america actually had and industrial base with the rampant outsourcing of american jobs this is simply not the case.


look at your bank statements look at your savings account rate or any investments and really look at what they are they a nothing but a shell of what they use to be.


final thought you need to stop looking down at me there are way too many people who this site that can make anyone look like an idiot.

and obamacare is nothing but pure evilness and if you think its just so great why is no democrat running on that platform and ask yoorself why are they trying to pass it off as a republican ideals.

no self respecting leftist democrat will ever not take credit for anything they do

reply to post by frimilden


i wonder how many illegals have to prove anything

and there are people in this country who have never worked a day in their lives who have never paid into the system ever.

i know this for a fact my aunt has never worked a day in her life and she is drawing $2000 bucks a month.

and yeah i know what you are talking about when it comes to disabled simple fact my father is one but he didnt have to prove anything.


those who are too young are the ones who have to fight the hardest to get them.

I'm just going to throw this out there...

The company I work for had a choice. They could either raise the rates or provide insurance that cost more out of pocket. They decided to choose the latter.

Last year, healthcare benefits distributed to all the employees combined cost 1.7 million dollars. However, only
about 1 million was collected in premiums. So the insurance company paid $700,000 of the companies medical bills.

It makes sense for the insurance company to raise the rates. They covered our bills right? I personally did not have health insurance because I'm healthy young man and I won't pay for everyone else's health problems. Our company is aging, and the average age is around 40 something, I'm almost 30.

If you use healthcare services, you should pay for them, right? When I go to the grocery store, I pay for the groceries in my basket, right? I don't just take some extra food and ask the guy next to me "Hey, can you cover the bill for me, I'm a little short." No! You get what you pay for, plain and simple. Just my two cents.

reply to post by neo96


Ya, my uncle maybe worked a total of 5 years in his life and draws the benefit. Between his 1200, his wife gets 500 and 2 kids get 500 each until 18 he sees a total of 2700 a month plus food stamps and medicaid. This is not fair at all. He has an injured back but could still do a sit down or driving job. This is my biggest beef with that, 90% of the people collecting it can work in some fashion. They need to really re-do the acceptance process they make you see doctors and provide back medical evidence of your disability but things like back injuries are easily faked. I am not sure if Illegals can get it, you have to show proof of citizenship during the application process.

reply to post by frimilden


your right man they do it simply because they can it has become too easy why do anything at all when you can just sit and do nothing and get paid for it.

reply to post by neo96


I remember him telling me that his attorney had told him that 90% are denied but that 70+ % win it on appeal. Then while it is in appeal dragging on for years once you win it they owe you the back money. He got a 45,000 dollar settlement check along with that 2700 a month. It is the most ass backwards program I know of. That is 1 program that needs to go or be reserved for those with life threatening injuries, not a simple bad back that I could sit at a desk and work with...My 2 cents...

Originally posted by breakonthrough9
If you use healthcare services, you should pay for them, right? When I go to the grocery store, I pay for the groceries in my basket, right? I don't just take some extra food and ask the guy next to me "Hey, can you cover the bill for me, I'm a little short." No! You get what you pay for, plain and simple. Just my two cents.

Sure, health insurance is just like stealing.

So what do you tell the people born with lifelong illnesses? Born deformed? Who should pay for them until they are old enough and healthy enough to work? What about the ones that might never be able to work? Who should pay for them? Just curious.

Completely off topic, but I can't help myself.

Curious and Neo, many American banks have been staying semi-solvent through plenty of ...umm..."foreign investment"...yea that works. .

By the way, as a cousin from the north, you're welcome .

reply to post by frimilden


yeah and the disability attorney he probably had to get netted a huge portion of that as well if he recieved any other form of compensation that had to be paid back as well.

lousy system indeed.

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by Curiousisall

 

banks are open but are they lending like they us to? no

Yes. Maybe you need to redefine "us?"
My bank is doing quite nicely. Maybe you can show me these poor, poverty stricken bankers? I went to google earth and tried looking for a BOA Tent City or a Chase Manhattan tenemant building for bank managers but nothing so far. I want to feel really bad for the poor banks like you do but so far they still seem to be making money just fine. Help me out.

reply to post by peck420


did you ever heard of goldman sachs and aig etc having paid europeans back with bailout funds man.

is that not a form of investment?

reply to post by neo96


Lousy is an understatement. I think if anything we agree on this

The attorney got 1//3 of the total settlement. BTW

reply to post by Curiousisall


Well, this is probably going to sound inhumane, but I would expect the same treatment back.

If I was born with some terminal illness or some kind of deformity or anything else, and the medical bills cost more than my parents could afford, then put me down. I will obviously never become anything or be able to pay back what it cost to keep me alive.

When a dog has kidney failure and the vet says the bill will be around $15,000 - its a hard choice, but not that hard. They offer to put the dog down instead. The same should be offered to humans.

If it costs 10,000 a month just in medical bills to keep me alive and I only earn 1,700 a month, why stay alive? People seem to have this sense of entitlement to life, and life is precious and is a gift. If your life is no longer a gift and becomes a burden on everyone, you might as well be dead.

I'm sure I will get flamed big time for this, but honestly, I would hope someone would pull the plug on me if I ever need to be on kidney dialysis or need $10,000 a month for medication or need some surgery that costs more than I will ever earn in my life. Life is short, and shorter for some people. Some people are lucky and some aren't. Plain and simple. Let the flames begin! )

Oh for the record, I don't have any children, so don't worry, my genetics won't be passed around in this crazy world. I'm not that cruel to put a child in a world that is run this way. )

reply to post by neo96


I was thinking more along the lines of the Canadian banks, with their new found "clout", have been quietly buying up American banks pretty much as fast as they can.

They have been trying the same in China and Europe, however I'm not to sure how much success they have had.

I have quoted "clout" because it is not so much that Canadian banks have gotten bigger or more powerful, as much as others have tanked that badly.

Originally posted by breakonthrough9
reply to post by Curiousisall

 

Well, this is probably going to sound inhumane, but I would expect the same treatment back.

If I was born with some terminal illness or some kind of deformity or anything else, and the medical bills cost more than my parents could afford, then put me down. I will obviously never become anything or be able to pay back what it cost to keep me alive.

I appreciate your honesty. Is that the general consensus? Do you think most people would agree or not with your premise? Do you have children? Would you be willing to put one down instead of going broke over health bills? How would you determine when to put your child down? Not all ailments are equal and what might prevent one from working may not prevent another as well as the fact that they can take unpredictable turns. Would you expect to go broke and homeless before you put your child down or would you want to be able to make that decision earlier so you can provide for the rest of the family after? Would we need death panels to decide who will be a viable laboror?

Oh, my bad. I did not realize what I was actually dealing with here.

, I would hope someone would pull the plug on me if I ever need to be on kidney dialysis or need $10,000 a month for medication or need some surgery that costs more than I will ever earn in my life.

So you know nothing about kidney disease but have an opinion about it? I think I understand now. So you would put your kids down, you say?

reply to post by peck420


you know come to think of it i have not heard anything about canadian banks receiving any funds from the tarp and stimulus banks

i know the eu invests here but i never hear anything about investment from canada


that really makes me curious about the whole sham of the bailouts

reply to post by Curiousisall


I do not know that much about kidney disease or how much it costs actually. But I know that it is more than what I can afford, because I live paycheck to paycheck.

Children get sick and they cost money and it is money that I do not have. Therefore, why bring a child in the world? If more people thought this way, there probably would not be as much debt and there would be smarter people in the world.

Did you ever see "Idiocracy"? I honestly believe we are headed that way. Maybe not in 500 years (seems to soon) but eventually.

Lets look at why medical bills are high. Well, the doctors went to 2 years of junior college, 4 years at a university, another 4 for med school and some even continue so they can specialize and then theres internships. So, if we can lower the cost of education and make it non-profit, people could afford medical services and doctors might charge lower prices for services and supplies because it did not cost that much for the education.

It's like we are having this population boom because natural selection no longer applies. Anyone can stay alive regardless of strong traits or weak traits. And if you can't afford your medical bills, don't worry, someone will pay them for you, because everyone deserves to stay alive. Right?

Can you see this from a logical point of view? I'm not trying to be harsh, but harsh decisions need to be made for the greater good of mankind. I'm all for helping people, but not at an unreasonable expense.

Well, i will admit that Obama care is controversial, and the only way to truly see the effects is to wait until it goes into effect. Sadly, i see thing being one thing that will require more to fix it than it fixes.

Originally posted by breakonthrough9
reply to post by Curiousisall

 

I do not know that much about kidney disease or how much it costs actually. But I know that it is more than what I can afford, because I live paycheck to paycheck.

This is why it is not such a black and white issue. My mother has kidney disease. She was on dialysis and thank god is not anymore. She has also worked all her life, even while on dialysis. Now let's just assume that all her medical procudures had to be paid for with tax dollars. In 50 years of working she has spent far more on taxes than all her medical expenses totaled up to. Do you see how simply keeping one person alive is a net gain?

Children get sick and they cost money and it is money that I do not have. Therefore, why bring a child in the world? If more people thought this way, there probably would not be as much debt and there would be smarter people in the world.

Sure, population control sounds great but we are not talking about bringing a child into the world that we know will be sick. We are talking about children that happen to be born sick. Two very different issues.

Did you ever see "Idiocracy"? I honestly believe we are headed that way. Maybe not in 500 years (seems to soon) but eventually.

Unfortunately I would not be too surprised if that happened. I think getting people to believe they can predict whether or not they will be able to afford their sick child before it is even concieved and stating they would gladly put their sick child down is a step in the right direction.

Lets look at why medical bills are high. Well, the doctors went to 2 years of junior college, 4 years at a university, another 4 for med school and some even continue so they can specialize and then theres internships. So, if we can lower the cost of education and make it non-profit, people could afford medical services and doctors might charge lower prices for services and supplies because it did not cost that much for the education.

You are getting farther and farther away from what I asked. We live in a society even if many of you do not like it. In society there are other people. That creates complications. I specifically asked who is supposed to pay for sick children in this perfect capitalistic cash and carry health care system you are talking about.

It's like we are having this population boom because natural selection no longer applies. Anyone can stay alive regardless of strong traits or weak traits. And if you can't afford your medical bills, don't worry, someone will pay them for you, because everyone deserves to stay alive. Right?

So at what point will you feel it is no longer ok to take out your child? If you find out when they turn 17 they have an illness that will infect and debilitate their spinal chord rendering them to a hospital bed for life, you will have no problem putting your kid down? This is the proposal you offered up so how true are you to it?

Can you see this from a logical point of view? I'm not trying to be harsh, but harsh decisions need to be made for the greater good of mankind. I'm all for helping people, but not at an unreasonable expense.

I can totally see where you are coming from but when I put those same terms in a more personal perspective for you, you jumped from it as fast as you could. Like I said, my mom has put more back into the system in 50 years of working than her kidney disease would have cost the system had they funded it.

reply to post by Curiousisall


Ok, to answer your question, I would not put my child down. I would do whatever it took to help them, sell my house, car, any valuables I had, whatever. Which is why I'm making the decision to not have children.

If I was the child, I would be forever in debt to parents if my medical bills caused them to lose everything they worked hard for in their life and could not live with that burden.

I'm sorry for what your Mother had to go through and it's unfortunate, but it worked out and thats great. )
Not all situations are like that though...

Anyway, to kinda get back on topic.....there will never be a healthcare plan that will make everyone happy. Someone is always going to feel like they are getting taken advantage of. Upper, middle and lower class. No matter what system is in place.

So what do we do about it?

Complain? Blame the left, blame the right? Take a look in the mirror.

If you know you have a genetic disposition...say heart disease or cancer....maybe you should make the decision to not have kids. I'm sure someone will say, I didn't know it ran in my family, or I smoked cigarettes or something.

I'm not sure where I'm going with this really...but basically, we are the cause of our problems. Society, ideals, morals, disagreements, class, genetics...etc. So, no matter what, nothing will be perfect. I guess all we can hope for is that it gradually gets better and I'm not sure if this obamacare will make things better or worse. I guess if you are poor and don't work and collect food stamps, its a good thing. But for me, I'm healthy and will be forced to purchase something I won't use, so it's bad for me.