Gang of Lithuanian squatters 'snatch ANOTHER home while owner is out

Originally posted by Yissachar1
reply to post by budski

 

This story is in every paper i have read this morning and the DM have not long cottoned onto it,

If this is indeed a scam ran by estate agents then its the first i have heard about it. Can you please provide a link for that? If thats true then they need stringing up!

It's in the article in the OP - buried near the bottom, as is usual with the daily fail and their anti-immigration scaremongering agenda.

It appears that they rented the properties in good (ish) faith, with one family paying £3k for 6 months rent in advance.

So, basically, this "estate agent" seems to be going round looking for empty properties, scouts them for a few days, then breaks in and changes the locks and rents them out to immigrant families, gives them some kind of "contract" or tenancy agreement, and then leaves them to it.

The owners come back, and the new "tenants" presumably having been primed by the "estate agent" start banging on about their rights - and the horrible part is that they DO have rights because the "estate agent" set it up that way.

So then it becomes a civil matter, and has to go through the courts.

The police need to track down the people who are breaking into the properties and renting them out - of course it may very well be that the new "tenants" are in on the scam, but it appears that they have all paid rent to the "estate agent"

In other words, the people in the houses are not squatters in the eyes of the law, and hard as it is to stomach, they DO have rights once they have a contract or tenancy agreement, even if it is not worth the paper it is written on.

It's a pretty simple matter to get a court order - the problem is enforcing it, because that means baillifs and police, and that means more money has to be paid out.

It's a pretty well thought out scam, but the people pulling it need to be found and banged up - see if they can get a tenancy agreement on a prison cell...

From the article:

They fear bogus estate agents are watching their homes and waiting for them to go away before moving in illegal tenants.

Mrs Belalij says the squatters claimed they were paying £600-a-month to live there.

Mr Pope immediately called the council and police but he was told the new occupants could not be evicted because they were themselves the victims of a scam.

The pensioner said police told him the residents had paid £3,000 to a bogus estate agent to rent the property themselves for six months.


He said: 'The houses all around the area are being taken over by squatters. It is some sort of scam through some sort of estate agent. It's frightening.'

A Met Police spokeswoman said: 'Police are investigating a civil dispute where there may have been fraudulent sub-letting of the premises.

'Anyone with information concerning the person who has fraudulently advertised this property for rent and subsequently changed the locks should contact Barking and Dagenham Police.'

source

Maybe one day we'll see an article that reads ....

"Homeowner and angry neighbors take back ANOTHER home from Squatters!"

"Mr. Jones explains how he got his home back, "Well, none us thought it was right so we grabbed a few cricket bats, shovels, clubs and what have you. Then we kicked the bloody door in and...."

It is sad the government is allowing this to continue. History has shown if pushed too far people will eventually attempt to push back..

Don't throw throw the baby out with the bath water, while this particular group, gang of squatters maybe a selfish bunch of advantage takers, squatting,renovating and living somewhere that's empty idle and rotting can be both political and practical. Also, it can be divinely inspired as the famous photograph of that guy hanging out of the freshly squatted Iranian embassy window with a banner reading: “ God told me to do it” proves.

reply to post by Frogs


Read the article - the supposed squatters are as much a victim as the homeowners, or read the quotes in my previous post, all from the article in the OP, which it appears not many people have actually read all the way through.

It's a scam by a bogus estate agent, but hey, don't let the truth get in the way of a good ol' immigrant witch hunt.

reply to post by budski

I feel sorry for both parties if that is indeed the case, however there is no proof that there is no collusion. Maybe part of a new scam by illegals..

I hope that there is a thorough investigation and peoples heads roll for it, and the law gets changed.. The fact that it happens and can happen is beyond funny.. I also dont buy the "but its our house, we were conned too, we have rights " defense either.. Fact is, the old guy was just out walking his dog, and unless he was walking to John o Groats then they had about an hour to move in, dump his stuff and change the locks... This guy was targetted and I dont buy for a minuet that those guys were not in on it... No freakin way!

But hope im wrong

Originally posted by Yissachar1
Fact is, the old guy was just out walking his dog, and unless he was walking to John o Groats then they had about an hour to move in, dump his stuff and change the locks...

But the article you posted says:

Mr Pope went back to his house on Monday morning to find all his belongings had been thrown out.

'I had been out for just two-and-a-half days. Someone must have been watching me,' he said. 'The rear door had been levered out with screwdrivers - that's how they got in.

He went out to walk his dogs, felt ill and decided to stay with friends for a couple days, and then came back to find this.

I agree it's a terrible story, I agree that someone must have been watching the house to see that he was gone overnight, but I have to wonder if you actually read the article before posting it

reply to post by Yissachar1


Nor is there any proof that there IS collusion - indeed, the police stated that the "tenants" were also victims of the scam, so for me, that rules out collusion for now, because the police will have asked to see the documents pertaining to the tenancy agreement the immigrants had with the bogus estate agent.

You seem pretty determined to blame the immigrants, even going so far as to ignore the police statements in the article - why is that?

That pretty much puts it to bed as far as I'm concerned, the story has been covered in a way that incites fearmongering and hatred, and so many members have taken the headline as fact, instead of seeing it for what it really is - to the point that not many people actually seem to have read it.

Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

So did we.

Study English and British history and you will see that we have never been afraid to stand up for ourselves....just wish the current generation would realise that!

I suspect you are true. And i would say that with the latter, the same is true in the US.

We are all so stupified from media tsunami's that apathy and inaction are seen as the most viable option. "Lets ride it out, see if it improves, don't wanna lose my digital TV with economic upheavals or anything." Meanwhile, each successive generation slips further under the thumb of tyranny.

Liberty. It was nice while it lasted.

This is one of the craziest stories I have heard in a long time.
I do not even understand any of it. Seriously, as an American, I can not wrap my head around how this is possible.

How are the contracts even legal????

I own my home. If I do not pay the mortgage, it is foreclosed. If someone breaks into my home and changes the locks, I call the polcie and they are arrested for breaking into my home. There is absolultely no law here in the states that would allow people to break into my home and live there and keep me out of it. Nobody would be able to write up a contract and rent out my house to someone else without my persmission, as I own the house.

Im still very confused on how this happens there?

Originally posted by budski
Nor is there any proof that there IS collusion - indeed, the police stated that the "tenants" were also victims of the scam,

But Yissachar's point about throwing out possessions is a valid one.
I spent a lot of my earlier life moving from bedsit to bedsit, so I've become a new tenant on many occasions. None of the those new tenancies involved throwing out the property of a previous occupant. At the very least, it should have been obvious to them that something odd was happening.
And is it so unlikely that a fake "tenancy agreement" with an "estate agent" who might be a collaborator, or who might not exist, could be prepared in advance?

reply to post by greeneyedleo


There's actually an interesting sidebar to the article posted by the OP that talks a little about squatting laws in the UK. I have to agree with you, though -- as an American it just sounds bizarre.

reply to post by greeneyedleo


As an American, this was my reaction, too. Apparently, the jurisprudence on the ground is different in the UK.
On days like this, I love my county police. Would be even entertaining to see how they make short work of intruders.

As a practical matter, it would probably be a good idea to install an alarms and fortify doors.

reply to post by americandingbat

Ok... I admit that past me by as I read, busy working at the same time.. Not a good multi tasker as is shown!

But i still dont believe they were not in on it. Legal loopholes get exploited and abused all the time. I could do the same thing and come out with the same defense "but officer, i paid a deposit to the landlord and signed this lease" thus are covered by law. Then the police try to find alleged shady estate agent that does not exist.. Nice scam!... However you would have to target the most vunerable who cant fight to get you out..

Maybe they were conned too. You cant disprove it.. And thats my point..

Thank you for the additional info btw, much appreciated, and for not going too hard on me for not just skimming lol

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
There is absolultely no law here in the states that would allow people to break into my home and live there and keep me out of it.

As I understand it, the legal principle goes back to the Middle Ages. The aristocracy would have local mini-wars over the possession of castles, and later houses, and the only way to contain the violence was to establish the legal principle that anyone entering a house by violence was committing an offence, even if he was the "rightful owner". The current occupant had the right to stay there until the courts decided otherwise. Hence "possession is nine points of the law". This is the principle that modern squatters in Britain can exploit.

reply to post by greeneyedleo


The properties are being taken over when the tenants (social housing) are away, by a person who then rents them out again to families after advertising them in local publication.

It's a sub-letting scam - the bogus agent gets money up front, after changing the locks while the real tenant is away.

If the new "tenants" have documents proving they have rented the property in good faith it becomes a civil matter, rather than a police matter.

The properties all appear to be council houses (local government subsidised housing) which makes the scam pretty watertight, as most councils allow their tenants to sub let their properties.

Technically, the new "tenants" now have legal rights because they have sub-let the properties from an agent allegedly acting on behalf of the real tenant, which means that an eviction notice has to be obtained via the courts (magistrates court)

However, if the real tenant says that he didn't give an agent any power to act on his behalf, and had no desire to sub-let, and that he had never given permission or contracted to a 3rd party to sub-let the property, then it is within the councils powers and remit to evict the new "tenants"

So basically, they watch a house for a few days, then break in and change the locks, advertise the property for rent as a sub-let, charge money up front, and then disappear leaving the new "tenants" to face the music, the real tenant to go through the necessary procedures for getting the property back and the council and police to get and enforce an eviction notice on behalf of the real tennant.

The real tennants do not own the properties - it is local government subsidised housing, or social housing and is rented to the occupier for life, or for as long as they want it, unless the council (as de facto landlord) finds reason for eviction.
Council contracts with tennants are pretty watertight and cover a lot of different area's, including sub-letting, which is where the scam is clever.

Clear as mud really

Sounds like the fraudulent subletting is just an excuse to get away with it. If one knew the law that one would have to go to court(and as stated in the article it IS a lengthy process) one would be able to live in the home for such a long time before getting the rightful boot.

Such a shame and I hope it is all resolved soon.

Originally posted by Yissachar1What do we pay the police for again? I forget...

The goal of the police(In Los Angeles) is to raise revenue and they do that by writing tickets and fines. If you get robbed a report will be taken so you can collect ten cents on the dollar from the insurance. The police don't give a damn about your property or your safety. Nor do they care if someone moves into your house. If property is recovered you will have a snowballs chance in hell of getting it because if it is sold at a police auction there is profit, if the true owner gets it back there is none.

If someone is murdered the police 'may' try to catch the killer. Not because they care about the victim but because of the lost potential for income. Have you noticed how much effort is put into finding the killers of the rich as opposed to the killers of the poor?

Police are corrupt, they have always been corrupt and they always will be corrupt.

If you need help call a sherriff.

Originally posted by TheBloodRed
Sounds like the fraudulent subletting is just an excuse to get away with it. If one knew the law that one would have to go to court(and as stated in the article it IS a lengthy process) one would be able to live in the home for such a long time before getting the rightful boot.

Not so - if the real tenant informs the council that he has never given permission for anyone to act on his behalf and sub-let the property, the contracts become void, and the council can evict the new "tennants" without going through the courts.

There seems to be some confusion about squatters rights - the law was changed some years ago to make squatting pretty much illegal, and a simple court order which can be obtained within a few hours or days is now all is needed for Police or Local Authorities (councils) to remove any squatters.

It only becomes more complex and long winded when a tennant has a genuine tenancy agreement, (usually a shorthold assured tanancy agreement, on a rolling 6 month contract) which means that a court order not only has to be applied for, but also the landlord needs to show good reason for the eviction.

As usual, the daily fail have neglected to do their research because they were so eager to run another anti immigrant "story" which they again have got hopelessly wrong.

A side note to this, is that IF you have not forced entry to a property, the owner has not claimed it as his property and shown it as his place of residence and you live in the property for 12 years as occupier with sole right of entry, under common law you can claim that property as your own.

reply to post by budski


Finally, this story makes sense. Its an old one. Some unscrupulous bastard takes advantage of immigrants who don't know their way around the real system. Its the same thing with the devils who demand huge payments from people to board "refugee" boats.

The original story was just too crazy to be believable. This one of human greed is just the latest example of an old story.

You have to admit this is pretty funny!

If it were my home they would last about 90 seconds in there upon my return. I don't think changing the locks would keep me out, and I don't think walking the dog would give them enough time to get into my gun safe! If they wanted to stay after me and the dog got back into the house, the males could stay as dogfood and the females as concubines. If that is an unacceptable housing arrangement, then they better leave pretty quickly!

On another note, I know of a ton of multi-million dollar beach homes that have not had visitors in years! I have often thought of moving into one, getting my mail, establishing a residence, and see if anyone notices? Even if they do notice, Florida still has Homestead laws. If I can get in there and spend about 5 years, I have as much legal right at the real owners do!