Proof of The Prophet Muhammad in the Bible

Originally posted by Miraj
reply to post by Alxandro

 

Which is because science only recently accepted that the world does not revolve around Jesus..

What's your point?

It doesnt revolve around muhammed either. Nothing like a good religious point counter point to piss people off with absolutely no hope of finding any type of answer that will satisfy anyone.


Yet another example of how organized religion, while they all profess certain rules, are nothing more than hypocritical. These "holy" books were written by people who claim it came from a higher power.

until that power comes down and does the eeny, meeny, miny, moe routine and picks a religion, its nothing more than people fighting over who has the better imaginary friend.

reply to post by Xcathdra


...We should respect one another, show kindness, for all mankind ... and always chose peace over war.. life over death and love over hate .. to reach understanding and... the knowledge of self...

Originally posted by JonInMichigan
Either God is making this crap up as he goes alone or it’s all a bunch of hooey.

First he uses Abraham and Moses to make all sorts of nasty laws in which murder is justified and a general attitude of “eye for an eye”, etc.

Then he sends Jesus the passivist to tell people to “turn the other cheek”, the good Sumerian parable, and “who amongst us that hasn’t sinned…yada yada”

Then he sends Mohammad to say that should anyone try to defile your religion with their presence in their house you can whack ‘em. And if you do whack ‘em in the name of God you get to do a bunch of virgins.

Either God is a total tool for changing his mind so much, or some of these “prophets” aren’t really God’s prophets. So which are real prophets and which aren’t??? hmmm?

Well since Abraham is the original and they are all based on his God Yahweh then we have to accept his version of this God or Moses, Jesus, Mohammed are all meaningless.

So who was that God? Well he was the one who liked to kill. He liked to kill a LOT! First he has us kept like pets until Satan comes along and says, you’re free to succeed or fail. So God kicks us out of the garden like an unruly teen to see if we can make it in the world.

We don’t. We are all sinful acting with our “naughty bits” and wine made from things of the Earth. (He likes tempting us more than Satan since he made us this way and put alcohol and drugs on the Earth.) So God’s response: Kill ‘em! Turn them to stone! Kill Job’s whole family to see if he’ll crack. And last but not least send three prophets down who have very different messages so we can all war for the next 2000 years over how to properly serve God.

Satan just sits back and laughs. God made his job so dang easy. Hell is filling up quick folks. (I’m a pagan and don’t believe in hell so this is a purely intellectual exercise for me.)

So, going back to the debate at hand: If God prophesizes in the Bible that Mohammad was going to come along and did indeed give Mohammed a message to send, a very different from Jesus, which was very different message than Moses… then God is getting a response from humans that could have been quite predictable. War, war, and more war! Nice guy.

Some would say he set the stage and all these messes were human’s fault. Then why would he send three different prophet, ESPECIALLY if he was planning to do it all along, which is the topic of this thread.

In other words, if this thread is right, then God is just a jerk and half. If this thread is wrong, then he had no idea what he was doing and making it up as he went along.

edit on 20-9-2010 by JonInMichigan because: very very bad typo

I enjoyed that lol.

Or the other option, the bastard doesn't exist. And if he does, he is as you describe him and I refuse to worship or even pay attention to such an asshole.

reply to post by babloyi


We are simply gong to disagree on the words, so I'll leave it at that. You'll have to rely on allah and the Quran, I'll stay with God the Father, the Lord Jesus, and the Holy Bible. Believe what you wish, but as I said several times, I went back as far as I could find. It just wasn't the way you want it to be.

the whole thing is a hoax.
the bible and the qoron were both written by jewish scholors centuries ago...(the dark ages maybe)
its the old "theory - anti-theory" trick.
they changed around a few dates and added a few things to "make history right".
guess what? its working...always has, always will.
the foxes always speak from their desks inside the hen house!

Originally posted by xuenchen
the whole thing is a hoax.
the bible and the qoron were both written by jewish scholors centuries ago...(the dark ages maybe)
its the old "theory - anti-theory" trick.
they changed around a few dates and added a few things to "make history right".
guess what? its working...always has, always will.
the foxes always speak from their desks inside the hen house!

Okey dokey, are you one of the ones that evolved from a monkey? They are so easy to spot

It's just your opinion.



My friend, your origin (as is mine) came from a dirty place on your mother and a dirty place on your father. A drop of sperm. Then you grow and reach full understanding and then type such rubbish. I really wonder why you think you are here.

Regarding the picture, Muslims eat with their right hand and when we go to the bathroom we use our left hand. Now, When we go to the bathroom we always use water to clean ourselves. Most people I guess don't. If you were in a park and put your hand in dog poo by mistake, would you just use dry tissue or would you wash your hands with soap and water? One could say that you are in a constant state of uncleanliness.

The reason I reply as such, is that you seem like a practical logical person, the question is, will you start to use water when you go to the bathroom to clean yourself?

Wake up my friend, don't be a frog in a well.

reply to post by Fromabove

It isn't a matter of agree or disagree. One can't be democratic and compromising when discussing the colour of the sky. Blue is blue.

I dunno if you even check what I link....I'm not relying on the Quran in this case. I'M RELYING ON THE BIBLE.
THE BIBLE shows that "Muhammad" in no sense means "my cousin".

If you must insist that it does, it might be helpful if you linked to whatever dictionary you are using "going back as far as you can" (whatever that means).

.. Yah .. I say . come to me . if you want to make an accusation .. and wil sort this out . .One on One.. how about it.. you can bring all you like and I will stand before you TIME and TIME again.. for the World will see you for what you are as I do .. Face it .. You Lost .. move on get over yourself.. you have been out matched from the begining .. and even now .. in the End... .. with much love .. the true ..

the god of the Jews is the Tetragrammaton of Kabbalah, YHWH. The Name Muhammad is the same in the Arab esoteric teachings. Muhammad writes in Hebrew MHMD. It is the 4 letter name of GOD, the formula of the existence and reactivity of energy, simply the contender and the 3 elements that rule it, Plus, Minus and Neutral.

So if the contender is H and the 3 elements YWH or the contender is M and the elements are HMD is on the end the same. In Islam only soufis or ta'alawuf know this and those people are aware of what the universe is and what rules it, just like jewish Kabbalists do.

We should not forget that the base of Islam is jewish, not arab and, in exception of words of hate against other ethnic or religious populations other then Islamic, the Qu'ran states the same things, same symbolism and same metaphors then the bible or other world religions.

What makes religions dangerous is the annoying coded story of babies, cabbage and storks that people believe in and follow to the letter. If we where taking all those scriptures and decode them and leave people read them as an open book in clear text, most of them would laugh and realize how stupid the whole world acts since thousands of years and on the end fight and kill for absolutely nothing.

Originally posted by FamiliarBoyOfGoodFortune

Okey dokey, are you one of the ones that evolved from a monkey? They are so easy to spot

Wake up my friend, don't be a frog in a well.

Hahaha, honestly; that made my day, I love the religious fundamentalist understanding of evolution. It's even more ironic that you tried to use it as a form of sarcasm.

Cheers for making me laugh,

Good luck in spreading your "truth"

Peace,

A&A

reply to post by awake_and_aware


The Darwinian theory of the evolution draws negative attention because it discredits creation as a possible cause of existence. If there was no creation, there is no creator. People who have so much faith in their God will never loss it of evidence. Fear is the drive of religion.
I do have sites for any of you to look at!
humanorigins.si.edu...
www.notjustatheory.com...
humanorigins.si.edu...
www.uwgb.edu...
wiki.cotch.net...
evolution.berkeley.edu...

Originally posted by babloyi
Hey Fromabove!
reply to post by Fromabove

 

Originally posted by Fromabove
Well, to go back to an earlier point I made about the name Muhammad being in the Bible. I searched for the earliest known text of the Hebrew I could find, and put in the words "altogether lovely" and it translated into English as "my cousin".

Could you tell me where you did this? And what exactly you mean? How can the words "altogether lovely" translate into english as "my cousin"? How does that make sense? I searched the verses and the lexicon available at Blue Letter Bible, and it doesn't even have "cousin" appearing in the OT! Where it needs to reference such a relationship, it says "uncles son" (or daughter), or "brethren", which are "ben dowd" or "ah/ach" respectively. This doesn't relate in any way to "mahmad".

Originally posted by Fromabove
The Quran cannot be believed as anything because the person yo whom it was supposedly given cannot and would not have been able to confirm anything in it. He couldn't read or write...

I think you missed my response to your exact same comment in your previous post.


reply to post by The time lord

 

Hey time lord!

Originally posted by The time lord
I want to be wrong, I want someone to show me that the timeline of Moses and Noah in Quran was never close to each other or what my quote from another website says. At the sametime, I prefer if people looked for them selfs that way people can prove that maybe I am wrong. I am still second hand knowledge why believe me or them as you said? I am trying to expand areas of arguement, I would have expected someone to prove it wrong on ATS.

How can you prove wrong a negative like that? If someone asked you to prove to them that Zorro and the power rangers never met (not that I'm implying any of the Biblical characters are fictional, just an example), how could you?

What I can do is show you the text of the Quran:

Prophet Moses in the Quran
Story of Moses in the Quran
References to Prophet Noah in the Quran
Story of Noah in the Quran

Or check these two links (they are dead, but you can check what they said once upon a time by pasting the links into the Wayback Machine:
ahlusunnah.org.au...
ahlusunnah.org.au...

You can see clearly that it makes no mention of them ever meeting, or that they lived in the same time.

Originally posted by The time lord
I have faith in what other Christains say because they are less likely to lie about what they say, it is not in their book to lie where I am sure the Quran talks about the acts of deception as something to be gain from.

You should always verify what you read. Not all who call themselves Christian follow the rules. There are unfortunately many such people who are lax (or purposefully and maliciously misrepresent the truth). And the Quran certainly doesn't say anything about acts of deception as something to be gained from. Much of the remaineder of your post is an example of such misunderstandings- None of the examples you gave are based of Islam or the Quran.

Unrelated PS: Doesn't ATS have its own url shortener?

edit on 24-9-2010 by babloyi because: edit on 24-9-2010 by babloyi because: Nope...links still not fixed. GAH!

I a not too hung up about the Moses and Noah aspect I am sure there are plenty of other differences otherwise the two religions would not be so seperate from each other,even if my error of judgement may have been to put faith in something that I did not look into as much as I could does mean Christianity and Islam are extentions from one another. To a Christain Islam is as Anti-Christain you are going to get, The Bible warns of false prophets and Muhammad fits that bill as being one of them. The world is split between the two faiths with Israel as the rock in the middle, the differences is evident in the history of the three Judiac religions.

I do not see how people can so sympathetic to someone like Muhammad who accuses Christains and Jews and yet when you critise his beliefs it is an offence, this offence is so woven in Islamic society and law that there is not Tolerance of other cultures within Islam. These accusations are part of Islamic law, your rights as a Jew or Christain in those countries are diminished, would you live under Islamic law if you feel that it bares no grudges and is open minded to the non believer? Another way to prove it is to go to Iran and preach the Bible in the streets, I am sure the love of Islam will treat people who do well. (sarcasm in figurative speech0
,
Quotes.

Qur'an 5:72 "They are surely infidels who blaspheme and say: 'God is Christ, the Messiah, the son of Mary.' But the Messiah only said: 'O Children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.'"
Text

Qur'an 4:157 "'We [Jews] killed the Messiah, Jesus,' but they killed him not, nor crucified him. It appeared so to them (as the resemblance of Jesus was put over another man and they killed that man). Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself. Those who differ with this version are full of doubts. They have no knowledge and follow nothing but conjecture. For surely they killed him not."
Text

VS

1 John 2:22 (New International Version)
22Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son.
Text

Then the Bible warns about any other revelations about Christ being false, that includes any Angels and Muhammad spoke to some Angel called Gabriel.

Galatians 1
No Other Gospel
6I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!

Text

The Bible pre-warns of such people or angels who teach another gospel as being false, again the two religions could not be more different. The Quran denies Christ and its scriptures teaches to hate Christains and Jews.

From a Christian spiritual perspective if the Devil had a book then it would be like this, the offence is not from the Bible it is from the Koran who argues against it and puts laws against such believers.

Qur'an 5:17 "Verily they are disbelievers and infidels who say, 'The Messiah, son of Mary, is God.'"

Qur'an 5:51 "Believers, take not Jews and Christians for your friends. They are but friends and protectors to each other."

Qur'an 5:72 "They are surely infidels who blaspheme and say: 'God is Christ, the Messiah, the son of Mary.' But the Messiah only said: 'O Children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.'"

Qur'an 5:47 "Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah has revealed therein. If any fail to judge by what Allah has revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel."

Qur'an 5:68 "Say: 'People of the Scripture Book! You have no ground to stand upon unless you observe the Taurat [Torah], the Injeel [Gospel], and all the Revelation that has come to you from your Lord.' It is certain to increase their rebellion and blasphemy. But grieve you not over unbelieving people."

Qur'an 5:73 "They are surely disbelievers who blaspheme and say: 'God is one of three in the Trinity for there is no Ilah (God) except One, Allah. If they desist not from saying this (blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall them - the disbelievers will suffer a painful doom."

Qur'an 5:82 "You will find the Jews and disbelievers the most vehement in hatred for the Muslims."

Text

Anyway I guess if you said something along those lines to a Christain then they won't be offended? Well this is not just an offence it is a supposed to be part of the religion and it is acceptable on that front it seems.

Qur'an 5:33 "The punishment for those who wage war against Allah and His Prophet and make mischief in the land, is to murder them, crucify them, or cut off a hand and foot on opposite sides...their doom is dreadful. They will not escape the fire, suffering constantly."
Text

The cutting off of hands and feet happen a lot in Muslim countries, not only that but in African countries like Sierra Lione it was used as an example of war.

I can go on and on but instead of people thinking it is a religion of Peace, ask if it is a religion of Tolerance and Love aswell because to me that seems to be the missing element from it.

The the Bible and the Quran is so far apart, Christ and Muhammad are completely different role models, many have come in Christ's name and are false witnesses in him. I see the Quran as a dangerous book, it will dispise other people and cultures and make it a holy revelation. If my religion said Kill Muslims and take them not as friends people would feel a little insulted and the same is read when Christians and Jews are written in a bad way and turned into a religious force. I could say that Bible prophecy predicts Islamic nations as being the endtime persecuters of the endtime Israel but that I have done on another thread.


This sets up the difference between the faiths, one is accusing another for being wrong, yet people are tolerant towards this because it have been woven as religion. Again the Bible states that those who deny Christ are of the spirit of Antichrist.

Ishaq:552 "The Quraysh had put pictures in the Ka'aba including two of Jesus and one of Mary. Muhammad ordered that the pictures should be erased."
Text

Again pictures of Jesus or the Cross are banned in Islamic countries and it its ban is spreading to Christian countries of faith, I could go deeper to find links and show videos but I don't want to spend a day on this.

I will leave this as my last post to this thread, it is nothing personal just an extention of views and it could on for a long time and I don't want to sound like I am correcting people all the time, I don't want to be stuck in that mode of thought.

reply to post by Romantic_Rebel


Maybe there is no creator, maybe we exist as infinity, no one knows.

If there was a creator, who created the creator? who created the creator of the creator? See how the argument from causation results in an infinite regression?

I'm sick and tired and rebuting the stupidity of people who claims to know what "God" is and how it/he/she mysteriously works, as if they know it intervenes in human affairs, as if volcanos and earthquakes are punishment from "GOD" it's pathetic.

Where human knowledge ends, God seems to start, the God of the Gaps. We atheists have to spend time trying to convince people that it is an irrational belief. Time that could be spent learning and developing technologies and medicines to save our planet, people and animals. Instead we have idealistic and physical wars of who's man-made God is the correct one.

Wake up my brothers !

Can you not see that ALL religions are a DIVERSION, a distraction, Paths that lead away from a True relationship with the Creator.

Any time another tells you what you should believe for salvation, they are attempting to control you through fear.

Do not fear to throw off the bonds of religion and open your heart, your minds, your eyes to the True path that is written on your soul from birth.

Nothing can separate you from The Creator. Each of us are born with the Knowledge of the Love the Creator has for us and The Creator’s “hand” guides our paths. It is unavoidable.

reply to post by brokedown


I think most people know religion is a form of mind control but even suggestion of a creator is an unnessasary assumption as we don't know the universe isn't inifinite.

Emerging scientific theorem such as the "Multiverse" concept allow for a possibilty of infinity, maybe our universe exists in a sea of universes, and that sea, exists witin a bigger verse of sea, and so we go on.

Humans need causation to explain existence or reality, maybe there is no beginning and no end. Maybe that's the paradox that we live in and we are fooled by our finite lifetimes and environments.

Anyone interested see the fibonnaci sequence/spiral, the mandelbrot set and see string or multiverse theory.

Myself, i won't go around Preaching creationism before i know for certain the universe or existence isn't infinite.

reply to post by The time lord

Originally posted by The time lord
I a not too hung up about the Moses and Noah aspect I am sure there are plenty of other differences otherwise the two religions would not be so seperate from each other,even if my error of judgement may have been to put faith in something that I did not look into as much as I could does mean Christianity and Islam are extentions from one another. To a Christain Islam is as Anti-Christain you are going to get, The Bible warns of false prophets and Muhammad fits that bill as being one of them. The world is split between the two faiths with Israel as the rock in the middle, the differences is evident in the history of the three Judiac religions.
...

1 John 2:22 (New International Version)
22Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son.
Text

But that is exactly my point! People keep talking about Islam being anti-christian/the antichrist, and use that passage as proof, but (as I've mentioned 3 times in this thread already,) the Quran DOESN'T deny that Jesus was the Christ, the prophesied Messiah. I think that aside from Christianity, Islam is the ONLY religion that recognises that Jesus is the Christ, other than Christianity, of course.

Originally posted by The time lord
Ishaq:552 "The Quraysh had put pictures in the Ka'aba including two of Jesus and one of Mary. Muhammad ordered that the pictures should be erased."
Text

You (or the place you got your info from) quote Ishaq completely wrong. The text you quoted of page 552 of Ibn Ishaq's text (not one that I'd consider trustworthy anyhow, and it certainly isn't scriptural, but still,) says the exact opposite of what you have learnt. I assumed you got this information from some anti-islam site?
Here is what the text actually says:
"The apostle ordered that the pictures should be erased except those of Jesus and Mary."
See? Despite the strong condemnation of pictorial representation of the prophets and other such people, because of respect towards Jesus and Mary, these were left alone (and according to other traditions, also the picture of Abraham was not touched).

This is what I meant about dangerous sources. Christians are strongly exhorted in their own books to refrain from gossip and lies and idle talk, the people you got this information from are certainly not true christians.

["Islam is the ONLY religion that recognises that Jesus is the Christ."]
did you conviently leave out the Son again? what exactly do you think Christian means?

John-
the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'?

Psalm2-
Kiss the Son, lest he be angry

1John-
No one who denies the Son has the Father

Acts-
The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch.

1Peter-
if you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed, but praise God that you bear that name.

Hebrews-
to which of the angels did God ever say, "You are my Son

Originally posted by brokedown
Wake up my brothers !

Can you not see that ALL religions are a DIVERSION, a distraction, Paths that lead away from a True relationship with the Creator.

Any time another tells you what you should believe for salvation, they are attempting to control you through fear.

Do not fear to throw off the bonds of religion and open your heart, your minds, your eyes to the True path that is written on your soul from birth.

Nothing can separate you from The Creator. Each of us are born with the Knowledge of the Love the Creator has for us and The Creator’s “hand” guides our paths. It is unavoidable.

A distraction from what? Fulfilling your own desires?

Isn't it always the way, that you get people like yourself saying religion isn't necessary. That's great, however...

You see it's not all about fear. It's more a warning of the consequences, but ultimately, do as you please.
And that's not all. It's also about creating a fair society taking into account the rich and the strong/the poor and the weak.

Let's use Islam's prohibition on alcohol as an example. Because it can be very bad for you, even if there is some good it it, not even the smallest amounts should be consumed. A total ban. What's the alternative? Look at a good example - UK. See how big a problem it is. But the government still doesn't ban it, no matter how much extra strain it puts on it's health service or the anti-social behaviour that stems from it's use. They are complicit in fact.

So the sin of it is on:

The one who grows the grapes for alcohol (of course growing for juice etc. is fine)
The one who presses it
The one who bottles it
The one who distributes it
The one who sells it
The one who serves it
And the one who consumes it


Man will always follow his desires, and will change his mind frequently, where as the The Creator never changes. And seeing that He Created us, He knows us better than we know ourselves, hence the need for religion. This is just one example, bring another subject and I will break it down for you Insha-Allah.

reply to post by FamiliarBoyOfGoodFortune


"not even the smallest amounts should be consumed"

John-
Jesus Changes Water to Wine

Matthew-
For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil.
The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners.

1Timothy-
Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses.

1Corinthians-
[ The Believer's Freedom ] "Everything is permissible"—but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible"—but not everything is constructive.

It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.

Galatinas-
for the women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai

reply to post by awake_and_aware

I'll tell you, strange things happen for a reason. There is the creator, the force, it builds, it creates, it provides based on a system. Just because you can't see it, it does not mean that it does not exist. Strage things do happen for it to make a point of existance. People become amazed then give up on the notion once again. Strong faith does lie on wonders and what happens out of no where. Our very dreams are connected there. You got ideas that run from left to right in reallity. Just a thought on the left built with your right arm. It's like writing, from left to right. Words.
Everything is clockwise like time, it's amazing but I would be carefull not to go too fast in front, those that do perish.
I can't wait for the dark, the clock will get energy to run. If you walk with god in the valey of shadows you begin to see it. I hate tricks, when it's the real thing I'm amazed.