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Proof of The Prophet Muhammad in the Bible

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posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 11:00 PM
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Originally posted by thektotheg


"All ages can testify enough how profitable that fable of Christ hath been to us and our company." -Pope Leo X



Where is this quote from?

Can you offer a source or two? Otherwise, it really doesn't help your argument at all. I mean, you wouldn't be using a falsified quote, right?

Eric




posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 11:39 PM
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As quoted by John Bale in Acta Romanorum Pontificum. Thanks for playing.

Although, it would've been more to the point if there were no basis for the quote. Because the Bible is considered THE Holy Book by so many people, its not taken into consideration whether or not its legit in any way. Why? Because, long ago someone told you that the Bible is God's word, and you believed them. The very essence of faith encourages thinking based on no understanding or logic. You believe what you believe because someone told you to. You were likely very young, and in most cases trusted the person beyond recourse. I do not blame you for this. I do, however, blame you for remaining so.

Beliefs are the most dangerous thing in the world. I was raised Catholic. I found myself praying to a fictional character every night. Unlike most people out there, however, there came a point where I thought it of importance to look into my basis of belief. I set out to prove my faith. The problem, so rare in such situations, is that I decided to approach things with logic, deductive reasoning, and common sense. I quickly found myself disproving the things I'd set out to prove for my own comfort. Lifting the veil is not an easy task, but I'd rather take questions and uncertainty regarding faith over blindly believing lies any day.

People are so conditioned into these prison religions that they have little chance to break the hold they have upon their mind. Now, as an outsider to religion with a much clearer understanding of personal spirituality and what you would refer to as God, it seems elementary that the entire thing has been and always will be about two things: Controlling and Dividing. Religion has fueled myriad evils. The sickening thing is the way people trapped by such things are confused into thinking that they are in the right.

It would help a lot of people out of their shackles to realize that they're participating in an essentially pagan, sun worshiping religion. The very type of which the church has continually damned throughout the ages. I take no pity on those who prefer to remain ignorant of what they've put their faith in. I take no pity on those so weak and broken inside that they must live for some god who has no interest in them whatsoever, despite their fear.

Religion is a tool, nothing more, nothing less. It is a vital part used by the hidden powers to keep us impotent and powerless. Until people wake up and begin to think for themselves, our species will never realize its cosmic potential. Never evolve spiritually. God is a state of being. Ignorance, doubly so.

But, I'm sure I've said enough. Religious people don't take kindly to having their faith made to look as useless as it is. I fear that the indoctrination is so deep, that there really is no way of climbing out...that is, until you do so on your own. Until you consciously say, "I wonder what's behind this all. I wonder if maybe everything I was told to believe is just that - things I was told." And, finally, that is the point. It is what you were told. It doesn't make it real. It doesn't make it any better or any more real than someone thanking Krishna or praying to Allah. Its all the same. These things are here to stifle us as a people, and the consistently blind acceptance of that; coupled with your tragic, evasive fear; does nothing but set us back as a people. Thank you for reading. In the end, I hope you won't take my anger toward your manufactured belief systems as combativeness. I simply want to evolve and get the hell out of here. I love you all, as I love every other being on this planet...in the beautiful, purity that we have inherited (and supressed), as the spiritually cleansed children of a God who doth not require our belief. Cheers.



posted on Sep, 24 2010 @ 12:16 AM
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reply to post by thektotheg
 


"think for themselves""fear""control"

Luke-
Why don't you judge for yourselves what is right?

1Corinthians-
For why should my freedom be judged by another's conscience?

So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being" ; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.

Genesis-
You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."

Romans-
Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.

But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of covetous desire. For apart from law, sin is dead. Once I was alive apart from law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death.

Galatinas-
The entire law is summed up in a single command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."

1John-
There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

Colosians-
These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.

OMG!


edit on 24-9-2010 by Rustami because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 24 2010 @ 01:50 AM
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reply to post by Fromabove
 


Please stop writing nonsense. You have not read the quran so stop arbiyrarily making up things that are supposedly written in it. And if you did read the quran and are writing this on purpose then I wish you well the day you stand before Him and there will be no helpers for you.



posted on Sep, 24 2010 @ 01:55 AM
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Hey Fromabove!
reply to post by Fromabove
 



Originally posted by Fromabove
Well, to go back to an earlier point I made about the name Muhammad being in the Bible. I searched for the earliest known text of the Hebrew I could find, and put in the words "altogether lovely" and it translated into English as "my cousin".

Could you tell me where you did this? And what exactly you mean? How can the words "altogether lovely" translate into english as "my cousin"? How does that make sense? I searched the verses and the lexicon available at Blue Letter Bible, and it doesn't even have "cousin" appearing in the OT! Where it needs to reference such a relationship, it says "uncles son" (or daughter), or "brethren", which are "ben dowd" or "ah/ach" respectively. This doesn't relate in any way to "mahmad".



Originally posted by Fromabove
The Quran cannot be believed as anything because the person yo whom it was supposedly given cannot and would not have been able to confirm anything in it. He couldn't read or write...

I think you missed my response to your exact same comment in your previous post.


reply to post by The time lord
 

Hey time lord!

Originally posted by The time lord
I want to be wrong, I want someone to show me that the timeline of Moses and Noah in Quran was never close to each other or what my quote from another website says. At the sametime, I prefer if people looked for them selfs that way people can prove that maybe I am wrong. I am still second hand knowledge why believe me or them as you said? I am trying to expand areas of arguement, I would have expected someone to prove it wrong on ATS.

How can you prove wrong a negative like that? If someone asked you to prove to them that Zorro and the power rangers never met (not that I'm implying any of the Biblical characters are fictional, just an example), how could you?

What I can do is show you the text of the Quran:

Prophet Moses in the Quran
Story of Moses in the Quran
References to Prophet Noah in the Quran
Story of Noah in the Quran

Or check these two links (they are dead, but you can check what they said once upon a time by pasting the links into the Wayback Machine:
ahlusunnah.org.au...
ahlusunnah.org.au...

You can see clearly that it makes no mention of them ever meeting, or that they lived in the same time.



Originally posted by The time lord
I have faith in what other Christains say because they are less likely to lie about what they say, it is not in their book to lie where I am sure the Quran talks about the acts of deception as something to be gain from.

You should always verify what you read. Not all who call themselves Christian follow the rules. There are unfortunately many such people who are lax (or purposefully and maliciously misrepresent the truth). And the Quran certainly doesn't say anything about acts of deception as something to be gained from. Much of the remaineder of your post is an example of such misunderstandings- None of the examples you gave are based of Islam or the Quran.

Unrelated PS: Doesn't ATS have its own url shortener?

edit on 24-9-2010 by babloyi because: edit on 24-9-2010 by babloyi because: Nope...links still not fixed. GAH!



posted on Sep, 24 2010 @ 02:41 AM
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Originally posted by snusfanatic
I knew that Muhammad was one of history's most famous homosexuals, but his birth being foretold in a love song by another man! I guess the verdict is in.


The verdict is in that you, are a homosexual!

I remember you, you were one that was on that other forum saying how good it was to 'lay with a man', wow, you really do get around!



posted on Sep, 24 2010 @ 02:49 AM
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Originally posted by snusfanatic
reply to post by snusfanatic
 


I have to apologize. Muhammad was not a homosexual. He was a pedophile. Huge difference of course. I support gay marriage/repeal of DADT, but i like to imagine that if i lived in Muhammed's hellish 7th century warlord government I wouldn't have fearly expressed support for his rape of innocent children.


I apologize, you're not a homosexual, you a pedophile - no, you're a homosexual peodophile. I know you support gay marridge - most gays do.

Funny how people write this type of crap. Assess yourself, you will never in any sphere of your whole life ever be able to achieve as much as the one you slander. Never.

Not as a politician
Not as a military leader
Not as man
Not in strength
Not in bravery
Not in Character

I could go on but it's getting boring.

In 23 years he achieved more than your will in your whole life.

What ever you say has little or no relevance. So don't repent, at the moment of your death, I promise you, the truth will become apparent



posted on Sep, 24 2010 @ 03:24 AM
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I have to agree with some of the above comments. The video was very well put together but seems to me like more of a pro-Mohammad music video then something with actual substance. I am not trying to bash it by any means, in fact I would like to hear more on the topic.
Johnny



posted on Sep, 24 2010 @ 03:50 AM
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reply to post by Rustami
 


There's really no point in arguing with someone that lacks the ability to reason. You haven't made a single point of any relevance. You haven't made any point at all, in fact. All you do is quote scripture.

So you have free will, right? So, if you don't worship God, acknowledge Jesus as your saviour, and confess your sins you'll still go to heaven, right? No? Wait, I thought you had free will. Oh, you meant the type of free will where you can choose between a horrible option or a supposed great option. Wow, that's tough. I bet you really go into a tizzy with all of that free will you're working with. Hrm. What would I choose with all of this power and freedom I have? Hrm. I could choose to conform to the constraints of a religion and everything that goes along with it... or... I could burn in Hell. Well, dammit, I'm stumped. I mean, I really appreciate God giving me all these options. Its quite a dilemma though.

Okay, that's enough for me. Please respond with 20 more Biblical quotes that you've stretched out of context from the whole. I would hate for any real discussion to go on, I know Christians don't like free thought...it makes things way too complicated and always ends up with their number shrinking. I appreciate that you decided to go the customary religious route of quoting from the Bible as your argument. Wow, captivating. And so sensible. There's that free will at work again. Have you ever had an original thought? I don't mean that to be cutting, its just that when you argue with someone it helps to actually say something. ANYTHING. But, keep quoting the Bible. It makes it easy for me.

I just would like to point out that I've never debated with a religious person who actually presented a real argument. I realize its because you have none, but I just wish you wouldn't waste my time as though your meaningless Bible quotes somehow make some amazing point. And the pride you took in it! haha. That's a sin in itself, but I realize you folks pick and choose the tenants that make sense in the moment. How ridiculous. Like you made some earth shattering declaration by copying and pasting what someone else wrote. haha. You sure showed me. I've seen the Bible stretched to fit the most reprehensible acts and mis-deeds. You stretching it to try and prove some point that is hollow and useless is nothing more than an excercise in futility. I feel sorry for you. I hope you'll see your folly before its too late. Although, the idea of christians getting to the afterlife and realizing how wrong they are tickles me pink. Don't worry, you'll be headed back to earth to live through this nonsense again. I don't plan to be here another round, myself. There are other worlds than these.

Let me end with this, since you love other peoples thoughts so much and don't seem too inclined to waste time forming any of your own...

"You are free to do as we tell you." -Bill Hicks



p.s. If you don't like what I have to say (original thought is frightening, I know), then I trust you'll forgive me. Then again, you don't really have a choice.
)



posted on Sep, 24 2010 @ 09:41 AM
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Originally posted by skajkingdom
reply to post by Fromabove
 


Please stop writing nonsense. You have not read the quran so stop arbiyrarily making up things that are supposedly written in it. And if you did read the quran and are writing this on purpose then I wish you well the day you stand before Him and there will be no helpers for you.



I have read the Quran, as I have said. It's full of contradictions and much hatred. Take for instance your post which decries vengence for me when I stand before you god allah. No helpers for me ! I don't need any. I will not be standing before allah, however, on a clear night I can look up and see him as he orbits the Earth.

And I'm not making anything up. Muhammad stole little girls to be his wives, that's right is it not. Little preteens who were then raped repeatedly over and over. Of course, their parents had to be killed as well. And he did say "Off with their heads" because they wouldn't believe what he said. Now that's tolerance for ya.

I know what is coming. I'm not a dummy who believes that all the Islamics want is peace and tolerance. They are on the rise, and they will conquer the entire world as told. They will force everyone to worship the moon god or be beheaded. As Christians we are promised eternal life, even if they behead us all.

But I stand by my word that the Quran cannot be any authority because the one who claims to have been given the words of allah couldn't even read or write and has no idea what was actually written in the book under his name.



posted on Sep, 24 2010 @ 09:59 AM
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reply to post by babloyi
 



I will attempt to clarify and explain with reason and logic why the Quran cannot be relied upon as coming from the god allah. Muhammad was a poor peasant who suffered from a condition known as epilepsy. Back then they thought it was possession by an evil spirit. He was befriended by a rich woman of the region who took him in and gave him a job in her caravan. Some time after that they married and he had a little wealth. being depressed by the fact that all the people of the land were nomads who had no power and worshiped many different gods, he longed for the day when they could band together.

One day while in a cave, he suffered a major epileptic convulsive fit. His wife at the time and her family saw that he was foaming at the mouth and drooling in a seizure. When he came out of it he had a wonderful story to tell them. Actually, he was hallucinating at the time. Thus began the story of the moon god supreme allah. Known under two different names at the time, he made it so he was called by the one name, allah.

He said a lot of things, and some of it was written down by others as they thought they heard it. One day he would say, I love those Jews, and then on another day, when he was mad at them, he said they should all die with the sword. Later, after he died, more was added as needed. But the story goes on to tell of his conquests and pillaging throughout the region. He liked little girls (something you go to jail for), and so on.

So, the Quran has no actual claim of being scripture one can rely upon. Stuff was added here and there as needed for the purpose of war and conquest. Muhammad never wrote it. No one can ever testify that the things in it came from him, or from allah. So at it's core Islam is fragile and the Quran is just a nice adventure novel.

I hope that helps, and of course I stand by my earlier statement that the word claimed as being Muhammad in the Bible is actually the words "my cousin" which can be found using the translator from Hebrew to English. You can go as far back as the texts will allow and you will see it.










edit on 24-9-2010 by Fromabove because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 24 2010 @ 11:48 AM
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reply to post by samturk990
 


Actually Hinduism was not the first religion...this is a common misconception...Animism was was the first.



posted on Sep, 24 2010 @ 11:51 AM
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reply to post by thektotheg
 


uh maybe you should go read up on what I've seen and heard a few posts back before any scriptures known and then attempt to explain to me what you think I do or don't know, what your definition of freedom and reason are, what happens after death and what the term "reign of terror" means? so far all I see is a bondage to hate, fear, guilt, and love of self the same exact problem that has been here for how long, who murdered Him/her/them? and stop twisting meanings of words and assuming what "I" say by posting scriptures

Revelation-
And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God.

Matthew-
No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money

Exodus-
Pay attention to him and listen to what he says. Do not rebel against him; he will not forgive your rebellion, since my Name is in him.

1Corinthians-
For it is written:
"I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."
Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

Hebrews-
For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

Romans-
This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.



posted on Sep, 24 2010 @ 11:56 AM
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reply to post by Jenisiz
 


as in magnetism?



posted on Sep, 24 2010 @ 12:08 PM
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Originally posted by Rustami
reply to post by Jenisiz
 


as in magnetism?


Animism (from Latin anima "soul, life")[1][2] is a philosophical, religious or spiritual idea that souls or spirits exist not only in humans but also in animals, plants, rocks, natural phenomena such as thunder, geographic features such as mountains or rivers, or other entities of the natural environment.[3] Animism may further attribute souls to abstract concepts such as words, true names or metaphors in mythology. Animism is particularly widely found in the religions of indigenous peoples,[4] although it is also found in Shinto, and some forms of Hinduism, Sikhism, Pantheism and Neopaganism.



posted on Sep, 24 2010 @ 12:56 PM
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reply to post by Fromabove
 

You may be using reason and logic, but you are not using historical fact.

Or in the case of your reassertion that "muhammad" in the bible means cousin. It seems you are using stubborn bias in there? Why do you "of course" stand by your statement? Is it because you think you cannot be wrong? It is odd that you think Muhammad is translated as "my cousin" in Hebrew, when there is nothing else to show that. Here, let me help you get over it.

מַחְמָד (Mahmad) in the Bible
Translates as "pleasant thing, pleasant, desire, goodly, lovely, beloved"

It is obvious that nowhere in the bible is the word "Muhammad' used to mean "my cousin". What bizarre translator are you using? And why are you so adamant about such an irrelevant (but wrong) thing?



posted on Sep, 24 2010 @ 01:15 PM
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reply to post by Jenisiz
 


cool-

When he saw Jesus passing by, he said, "Look, the Lamb of God!"

The wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling together; and a little child will lead them.

God saw all that he had made, and it was very good.

Worship him who made the heavens, the earth, the sea and the springs of water."



posted on Sep, 24 2010 @ 01:27 PM
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Originally posted by thektotheg
As quoted by John Bale in Acta Romanorum Pontificum. Thanks for playing.


John Bale was a playwright and satirist. Acta Romanorum Pontificum was an anti-Catholic, Protestant polemical work. Pope Leo X never said any such thing. But don't let the facts get in your way. We might as well use Shakespeare for accurate quotes by Julius Caesar.

Thanks for playing.

Eric



posted on Sep, 24 2010 @ 04:41 PM
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Hello,

only god can judge a human being, and what he or she has went through. You all have to respect each and every prophet god put down on the earth. They all speak words of wisdom, and truth. In my opinion some of you are to entertained by yourself. Get out into the world, and do something nice for others instead of sitting in front of the pc bloggin ur ass off. They said a day would come that something with one eye will take u anywhere u want, hmm it can be the pc, tv, etc. You people need to realize that. Get up and something nice for your people, and for god. He will love you people for it.

Peace and Respect, Much Love.



posted on Sep, 24 2010 @ 05:27 PM
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reply to post by samturk990
 


so what are you doing here contridicting The Messiah? sounds like reading may benefit your lack eh?

Matthew-
For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John. And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come.

Acts-
In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by raising him from the dead.

Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved."

Phillipians-
God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

Zecheriah-
On that day there will be one LORD, and his name the only name.

Jude-
These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.





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