Originally posted by babloyi
reply to post by Fromabove
Originally posted by Fromabove
Well, to go back to an earlier point I made about the name Muhammad being in the Bible. I searched for the earliest known text of the Hebrew I could
find, and put in the words "altogether lovely" and it translated into English as "my cousin".
Could you tell me where you did this? And what exactly you mean? How can the words "altogether lovely" translate into english as "my cousin"? How does
that make sense? I searched the verses and the lexicon available at Blue Letter Bible, and it doesn't even
have "cousin" appearing in the OT! Where it needs to reference such a relationship, it says "uncles son" (or daughter), or "brethren", which are "ben
dowd" or "ah/ach" respectively. This doesn't relate in any way to "mahmad".
Originally posted by Fromabove
The Quran cannot be believed as anything because the person yo whom it was supposedly given cannot and would not have been able to confirm anything in
it. He couldn't read or write...
I think you missed my response to your exact same comment in your previous
reply to post by The time lord
Hey time lord!
Originally posted by The time lord
I want to be wrong, I want someone to show me that the timeline of Moses and Noah in Quran was never close to each other or what my quote from another
website says. At the sametime, I prefer if people looked for them selfs that way people can prove that maybe I am wrong. I am still second hand
knowledge why believe me or them as you said? I am trying to expand areas of arguement, I would have expected someone to prove it wrong on
How can you prove wrong a negative like that? If someone asked you to prove to them that Zorro and the power rangers never met (not that I'm implying
any of the Biblical characters are fictional, just an example), how could you?
What I can do is show you the text of the Quran:
Prophet Moses in the Quran
Story of Moses in the Quran
References to Prophet Noah in the
Story of Noah in the Quran
Or check these two links (they are dead, but you can check what they said once upon a time by pasting the links into the
You can see clearly that it makes no mention of them ever meeting, or that they lived in the same time.
Originally posted by The time lord
I have faith in what other Christains say because they are less likely to lie about what they say, it is not in their book to lie where I am sure the
Quran talks about the acts of deception as something to be gain from.
You should always verify what you read. Not all who call themselves Christian follow the rules. There are unfortunately many such people who are lax
(or purposefully and maliciously misrepresent the truth). And the Quran certainly doesn't say anything about acts of deception as something to be
gained from. Much of the remaineder of your post is an example of such misunderstandings- None of the examples you gave are based of Islam or the
Unrelated PS: Doesn't ATS have its own url shortener?
edit on 24-9-2010 by babloyi because: edit on 24-9-2010 by babloyi because: Nope...links still not fixed. GAH!
I a not too hung up about the Moses and Noah aspect I am sure there are plenty of other differences otherwise the two religions would not be so
seperate from each other,even if my error of judgement may have been to put faith in something that I did not look into as much as I could does mean
Christianity and Islam are extentions from one another. To a Christain Islam is as Anti-Christain you are going to get, The Bible warns of false
prophets and Muhammad fits that bill as being one of them. The world is split between the two faiths with Israel as the rock in the middle, the
differences is evident in the history of the three Judiac religions.
I do not see how people can so sympathetic to someone like Muhammad who accuses Christains and Jews and yet when you critise his beliefs it is an
offence, this offence is so woven in Islamic society and law that there is not Tolerance of other cultures within Islam. These accusations are part of
Islamic law, your rights as a Jew or Christain in those countries are diminished, would you live under Islamic law if you feel that it bares no
grudges and is open minded to the non believer? Another way to prove it is to go to Iran and preach the Bible in the streets, I am sure the love of
Islam will treat people who do well. (sarcasm in figurative speech0
Qur'an 5:72 "They are surely infidels who blaspheme and say: 'God is Christ, the Messiah, the son of Mary.' But the Messiah only said: 'O
Children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.'"
Qur'an 4:157 "'We [Jews] killed the Messiah, Jesus,' but they killed him not, nor crucified him. It appeared so to them (as the resemblance of
Jesus was put over another man and they killed that man). Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself. Those who differ with this version are full of
doubts. They have no knowledge and follow nothing but conjecture. For surely they killed him not."
1 John 2:22 (New International Version)
22Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son.
Then the Bible warns about any other revelations about Christ being false, that includes any Angels and Muhammad spoke to some Angel called
No Other Gospel
6I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7which is
really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8But even if we or an
angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9As we have already said, so now I say
again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!
The Bible pre-warns of such people or angels who teach another gospel as being false, again the two religions could not be more different. The Quran
denies Christ and its scriptures teaches to hate Christains and Jews.
From a Christian spiritual perspective if the Devil had a book then it would be like this, the offence is not from the Bible it is from the Koran who
argues against it and puts laws against such believers.
Qur'an 5:17 "Verily they are disbelievers and infidels who say, 'The Messiah, son of Mary, is God.'"
Qur'an 5:51 "Believers, take not Jews and Christians for your friends. They are but friends and protectors to each other."
Qur'an 5:72 "They are surely infidels who blaspheme and say: 'God is Christ, the Messiah, the son of Mary.' But the Messiah only said: 'O Children of
Israel! Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.'"
Qur'an 5:47 "Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah has revealed therein. If any fail to judge by what Allah has revealed, they are (no
better than) those who rebel."
Qur'an 5:68 "Say: 'People of the Scripture Book! You have no ground to stand upon unless you observe the Taurat [Torah], the Injeel [Gospel], and all
the Revelation that has come to you from your Lord.' It is certain to increase their rebellion and blasphemy. But grieve you not over unbelieving
Qur'an 5:73 "They are surely disbelievers who blaspheme and say: 'God is one of three in the Trinity for there is no Ilah (God) except One, Allah. If
they desist not from saying this (blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall them - the disbelievers will suffer a painful doom."
Qur'an 5:82 "You will find the Jews and disbelievers the most vehement in hatred for the Muslims."
Anyway I guess if you said something along those lines to a Christain then they won't be offended? Well this is not just an offence it is a supposed
to be part of the religion and it is acceptable on that front it seems.
Qur'an 5:33 "The punishment for those who wage war against Allah and His Prophet and make mischief in the land, is to murder them, crucify
them, or cut off a hand and foot on opposite sides...their doom is dreadful. They will not escape the fire, suffering constantly."
The cutting off of hands and feet happen a lot in Muslim countries, not only that but in African countries like Sierra Lione it was used as an example
I can go on and on but instead of people thinking it is a religion of Peace, ask if it is a religion of Tolerance and Love aswell because to me that
seems to be the missing element from it.
The the Bible and the Quran is so far apart, Christ and Muhammad are completely different role models, many have come in Christ's name and are false
witnesses in him. I see the Quran as a dangerous book, it will dispise other people and cultures and make it a holy revelation. If my religion said
Kill Muslims and take them not as friends people would feel a little insulted and the same is read when Christians and Jews are written in a bad way
and turned into a religious force. I could say that Bible prophecy predicts Islamic nations as being the endtime persecuters of the endtime Israel but
that I have done on another thread.
This sets up the difference between the faiths, one is accusing another for being wrong, yet people are tolerant towards this because it have been
woven as religion. Again the Bible states that those who deny Christ are of the spirit of Antichrist.
Ishaq:552 "The Quraysh had put pictures in the Ka'aba including two of Jesus and one of Mary. Muhammad ordered that the pictures should be
Again pictures of Jesus or the Cross are banned in Islamic countries and it its ban is spreading to Christian countries of faith, I could go deeper to
find links and show videos but I don't want to spend a day on this.
I will leave this as my last post to this thread, it is nothing personal just an extention of views and it could on for a long time and I don't want
to sound like I am correcting people all the time, I don't want to be stuck in that mode of thought.
edit on 25-9-2010 by The time lord because: Extra bits