Proof of The Prophet Muhammad in the Bible

Originally posted by Romantic_Rebel
reply to post by Serizawa

 

That's fine with me. Everyone has different beliefs in life and some are more mild then others. Just keep an open heart and mind while discovering mysteries.

If you want mysteries, I have experienced many, but they all point to the existence of Allah (SWT), undeniably so.

You see, once you experience things which others would not deem possible, well, you enter a select group, as the majority will never be bothered to do what it takes to raise themselves to higher levels of understanding. You can't trick Allah The Most High, He knows what you reveal and what you conceal. The race is open to all people, and no-one is more special than anyone else, the defining thing is the condition of your heart.

You seem to have a more open mind than most, that's at least a requirement to accept the truth, and as you know there is no compulsion in religion, but I must also warn you of a fire who's fuel is men and stones.

Originally posted by FamiliarBoyOfGoodFortune

You seem to have a more open mind than most, that's at least a requirement to accept the truth, and as you know there is no compulsion in religion, but I must also warn you of a fire who's fuel is men and stones.

Right.

Except there is no such thing as a 'mind' in the first place. Only thoughts.

And, according to Saying # 13 of the Gospel of Thomas--a Gospel which, of course, is considered "heretical" by the Christian theologians--"stones" are a symbol for the thoughts of the 'thinker'; specifically, the nitwit doctrines of the Jewish, Christian and Muslim religious 'authorities'; while "men", in this context, refers to "selves".

The consciousness of the 'thinker'-theologians, meanwhile, is symbolized in Sura 27:82 of the Quran as the "beast of the earth", echoing Chapter 13:11 of the Revelation of John.

Michael

reply to post by FamiliarBoyOfGoodFortune

Not trying to be preachy. I think I can put this into a Christian perspective for those who don't understand.

The question MUST BE, if anyone is so inclined to believe there is a designer/creator behind all this, like me:

Do you want to follow a God who appears to be teaching mankind to love their neighbor, who also teaches we should forgive everyone of their sin because no one is sinless and for us to simply believe in the message? Or, a God who appears to demand you lie to unbelievers to further your practices of worship, have a 'radical' view from that same religion which allows killing and the brutal raping of your very own neighbors?

Everytime I would chose the one who says LOVE each other!!!!!!!!

and be willing to have FORGIVENESS!!!!

I would choose that path every time over kill, pillage and rape. And certainly, I would have been against the Inquistion too.



Maybe God truly hates all sin as in inferred in both religions. But, I say the Old Testement was to remind us that even people that were somehow glorified were only human. They were subject to the desires and mistakes we make as humans. NO ONE was guiltless of sin. I believe we all had to have the opportunity to freely choose to love our neighbors and follow or not, a God who accepts us for who we are. If we don't, I am convinced we fail the test of the what the teacher was teaching thus missing an opportunity to enjoy life to the fullest.

We can all agree that under normal circumstances we should never harm another person and we should always try to uplift each other. The eastern traditions that teach of karma seems realistic to me because I see that when your nice to people it comes back to you and if your trying to hurt people, well....................... The Physocolgist and MD's recognize a positive attitude do well in experiments. I was thinking placebo's in particular, but I can remember some other examples.

We should all suffer the love of our neighbors and their forgiveness of our trespasses against them.

(No I am not a preacher but I do sing in a Choir and I've heard a sermon or two!)

Originally posted by FamiliarBoyOfGoodFortune
reply to post by Romantic_Rebel

 

Well not really.

The Quran mentions these revelations:

1) The Suhuf Ibraheem (The Scrolls of Abraham)
2) The Injeel - The Gospels - That were given to Jesus (AS)
3) The Zaboor - Psalms given to Daood (AS) The Prophet David
4) The Torah - Given to Moses
5) The Quran - Given to Prophet Muhammad (SAW)

All are OK in their unchanged original form. The question is, which version of the Bible do you have?

___________________________________________________________________________________


So if they follow these books then why are they not included fully in the Quran and only mention it and rely on the Bible for such evidence? Without the Bible being preserved there is no reference of these books just guess work.

Secondly the Genesis story is completely different from the Quran and the Bible, the black rock of Mecca is meant to have been cast down in the garden of eden, the Bible never mentions that. The Quran says that Noah and Moses knew each other but the Bible is clearly read that they are generations apart.
So where is this so called right version of all these books? Even the Angel Gabriel is different from the Bible and the Quran.

Well I thought the Quran says that the books like the Torah is corupt anyway like any other Bible book.
But the Quran says if you need advice ask the people of the BOOK which is the Bible, then to make matters worse it says Christians and Jews have een decieved and corrupted the Book. So which is it?

I will stick to the Bible even today they still discovering Kings, places and Cities mentioned in the Bible along with other documented evidence of Jesus that can fill whole copies of the Gospels up.

Jerusalem is not even a word in the Quran, for such an important place one would think you need to be specific about it before causing people to think Jerusalem was the right place of worship or important let alone the exact place of worship.

www.allabouttruth.org...

Clement of Rome was martyred in 100 AD. In his writings, he quoted from Matthew, Mark, Luke, Acts, 1 Corinthians, 1 Peter, Hebrews, and Titus. Clement's quotes totally correspond with the Bible we read today. In fact, even if we lost all of the 5,300 early Greek manuscripts, all of the 10,000 Latin vulgates, and all of the 9,300 other ancient manuscripts, we would be able to reconstruct all but 11 verses of the New Testament from the writings of the early Church leaders who quoted from them extensively. We have over 36,000 preserved quotes from the New Testament. In a nutshell, the Bible stands today as the best-preserved literary work of all antiquity, and it's overall reliability is without question!
Text

Originally posted by Vonour
reply to post by EnactedEgoTrip

 

.. you haven't read the bible.. . at all.. or you have no understanding of it .. for . there can only be peace until the 2nd comming you would know this if you had read it in the bible...
...All religion leads to the True God .. .. what shall your belief .lead you to ..
...? to the Kingdom of Heaven ... the power to change the world is in you ... You are your own savior .. If you want peace .. then peace you shall have ..but you must want this and carry this within in you .. right now I see only anger and lack of understanding ... you can not bring about peace ..if there is no peace within your soul..
...the discorse in your soul only emmits negative energy about you .. try to calm you mind and have faith .. faith in a new begining to come .. and prey that all shall reach this point of understanding so that all my reach the Kingdom of Heaven ... ..Bless You and Yours ..

Typical reply based on ignorance. Show me some evidence that IS NOT IN THE BIBLE.

The bible has been edited many times throughout history. There are no originals left that we know about. The translations we have are from copies - that are corrupt.

Yes I am angry, that people like you think you know the divine truth based on the words of people who have not been alive for thousands of years to verify their writings. Look at the state of human civilisation, which has been ruled by people who follow the words of these holy texts, and tell me that my anger is unjustified. If you can do that without feeling bad, then you have no conscience.

I want NO part of the kingdom of god, because thats what we are living in now, dont you get it?

The reason Muhammad is a false prophet, is because he denies the fact that Jesus is the incarnate Son of God. Also he rejects Jesus as Savior. That Jesus died on the cross for all our sin. That Jesus blood is the atonement for sin. That Jesus is the only way to God the Father. Muhammad's followers are "anti-Christ" as was he. Not only do they believe the falsehoods taught to them concerning Jesus, but they also hate and kill the followers of Christ.

Muhammad is never mentioned by name in the Bible. The word cited as his name is actually translated "my cousin".

No one should believe a word of the Quran as the word of God because of what the Quran itself teaches. Muhammad couldn't read or write a single word. The words written therefore were not his own. Since he did not have the ability to proof read it or know for sure, anything could have been written by the actual writers. Additionally, Muhammad may not have even know there was a Quran created in the first place, so his name may be subscribed to something for which he had no knowledge of. Then there is the thing about the "right hand" and what it possesses. Since Muhammad could not write, he could not claim to be the author as told him from God. His right hand could not possess what it was they say he claimed. So in the end, all of it could just be something some Arabs created to make a name for themselves and to create another god to worship for power. There may not have even been a Muhammad at all.

So there you go. Figure that out if you think you can. There is more doubt in Islam than any other religion of the Earth.

Originally posted by Fromabove
The reason Muhammad is a false prophet, is because he denies the fact that Jesus is the incarnate Son of God. Also he rejects Jesus as Savior. That Jesus died on the cross for all our sin. That Jesus blood is the atonement for sin. That Jesus is the only way to God the Father. Muhammad's followers are "anti-Christ" as was he. Not only do they believe the falsehoods taught to them concerning Jesus, but they also hate and kill the followers of Christ.

Muhammad is never mentioned by name in the Bible. The word cited as his name is actually translated "my cousin".

No one should believe a word of the Quran as the word of God because of what the Quran itself teaches. Muhammad couldn't read or write a single word. The words written therefore were not his own. Since he did not have the ability to proof read it or know for sure, anything could have been written by the actual writers. Additionally, Muhammad may not have even know there was a Quran created in the first place, so his name may be subscribed to something for which he had no knowledge of. Then there is the thing about the "right hand" and what it possesses. Since Muhammad could not write, he could not claim to be the author as told him from God. His right hand could not possess what it was they say he claimed. So in the end, all of it could just be something some Arabs created to make a name for themselves and to create another god to worship for power. There may not have even been a Muhammad at all.

So there you go. Figure that out if you think you can. There is more doubt in Islam than any other religion of the Earth.

edit on 23-9-2010 by Fromabove because: (no reason given)

Just lol ...


Read the book dude. It won't bite. Read it. THEN write here.

reply to post by Michael Cecil

And, according to Saying # 13 of the Gospel of Thomas--a Gospel which, of course, is considered "heretical" by the Christian theologians--"stones" are a symbol for the thoughts of the 'thinker'; specifically, the nitwit doctrines of the Jewish, Christian and Muslim religious 'authorities'; while "men", in this context, refers to "selves".

You forgot to mention it's considered heretical because it was written a couple hundred years after Thomas was dead.

Are there any epistles or Gospels you like from the first century? Or can you explain why the Apostolic fathers fail to mention any of the beloved gnostic gospels???

Just curious.

reply to post by skajkingdom



I have read the Quran. It as hard to put it down. It was like reading an action novel about a guy who at first said he liked those people of the book until they, well, until one day they hurt his feelings. Then he shouted "Off with their heads" and spouted words of hatred against them. He took over their cities and raped their women and murdered fathers and brothers in front of their eyes. He told them, "whatever your right hand possesses is yours to do with as you please". So like kids in a candy store they swept across the land to pillage and destroy wonderfully for a god told to them by a man who never ever wrote the book of the words of god himself. Yes, even this man took little six year old girls and raped them calling them wives and tormented them after killing their families before their eyes.

Oh, what a book. In it you can find ways to kill your neighbor if he says the wrong thing and then take his wife and kill off his children. You can dress the women in sheets and conceal all their beauty lest Ooops! you should see it and have a good feeling inside yourself. You get to kill infidels like Jews and Christians whom you claim had the original words of God. Oh yes, and it gets better. If you get the chance and kill infidels for the god allah, "bing" you get at least 72 virgins, pillows of comfort in paradise with as much wine and sex as you can muster.

Yup. I've read the book.

So when was the Quran actually put together, when was the earliest copy on record? According to historians it was nerly 200 years later when the earliest copy was found as bits of leaves and paper writings, there is no chronolgical order of the actual writings either, with longest verse first.

www.bible.ca...

Although Muslims proclaim they have a Koran that dates to the time of Muhammad, the Reality is different.

There are no ancient copies of the Koran dating before 750 AD in museums.

Two ancient partial copies of Koran that are in existence are the Samarqand MSS is in Tashkent, and the MSS housed in the Topkapi Museum in Istanbul. What many Muslim's do not know, is that because these two manuscripts were written in a script style called "Kufic", practicing Muslim scholars generally date these manuscripts no earlier than 200 years after Muhammad died. Had these two manuscripts been compiled any earlier, they would have been written in either the Ma'il or Mashq script style. John Gilchrist, in his book, "Jam' Al-Qur'an" came to this same conclusion. (John Gilchrist, Jam' Al-Qur'an, Jesus to the Muslims, 1989)

Further, only one-third of the original Samarkand MSS in Tashkent survives. There are about 250 pages written in a bold Arabic script on deerskin. It is written in "Hejaz" in Saudi Arabia, so the script is Hejazi, (Kufic script).

Now we do have one ancient copy of the Koran written in the Ma'il style of script, that is housed in the British Museum in London (Lings & Safadi 1976:17,20; Gilchrist 1989:16,144). But scholar Martin Lings, who was not only a practicing Muslim, but also a former curator for the manuscripts of the British Museum, dates this manuscript at 790 AD, making it the earliest. On the other hand Yasir Qadhi notes one Islamic Masters/PhD scholar who believes the Samarqand MSS is the ‘most likely candidate for the original’.

It is unknown, even by Muslims that authorities will not release photographs of the ancient Topkapi manuscript in Istanbul and so there are no known studies on it. This is why the Muslim apologist, M. Saifullah had to state "Concerning the Topkapi manuscript we are not aware of studies done it." (Who's Afraid Of Textual Criticism?, M. S. M. Saifullah, 'Abd ar-Rahman Squires & Muhammad Ghoniem) What is in this manuscript that Muslims are afraid to let the world see? After all in Qur'an 2:111 it says "Produce your proof if you are truthful."

Even the earliest fragmentary manuscripts of the Koran are all dated no earlier than 100 years after Muhammad died.

Add to this the fact that there is no archeological evidence dated at the time when Muhammad was alive, by way of artifact, manuscript or inscription has ever been found were Muhammad is actually referred to as "a prophet".

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VS THE BIBLE

Bible Truth - Why is this Book any Different than the Others?
Is there such a thing as "Bible Truth?" Why should we trust this "holy book" any more than any other spiritual, religious or philosophical treatise? How can we be sure that the Bible we read today is the same collection of 66 books that were originally written in ancient times?

Bible Truth - The Reliability of the Ancient Manuscripts
Bible truth? Let's take a look! The Bible is unquestionably the world's all-time bestseller with an estimated 2 billion copies in print. The Bible was completed in its entirety nearly 2,000 years ago and stands today as the best-preserved literary work of all antiquity, with over 24,000 ancient New Testament manuscripts discovered so far (compare this with the second best-preserved literary work of all antiquity, Homer's Iliad, with only 643 preserved manuscripts discovered thus far). The printing press wasn't invented until the 1450's, but we have hand-written copies of the Old Testament dating back to the 200's BC. Remarkably, these ancient manuscripts are nearly identical to the Bible we read today.

As far as the New Testament, the Bodmer Papyrus II contains most of the Gospel of John and dates from around 150-200 AD. The Chester Beatty Papyri contains major portions of the New Testament and dates back to about 200 AD. The Codex Vaticanus, the oldest complete New Testament manuscript we've discovered so far, dates from 325-350 AD. The apostle John, who lived with Jesus and learned from Jesus, penned five New Testament books and died in 100 AD. We have fragments of John's Gospel that date from 110-130 AD, within 30 years of his death. When compared to other ancient works such as Plato, Homer or Tacitus, that short time period between the original and the most recent copy is dramatic!

Clement of Rome was martyred in 100 AD. In his writings, he quoted from Matthew, Mark, Luke, Acts, 1 Corinthians, 1 Peter, Hebrews, and Titus. Clement's quotes totally correspond with the Bible we read today. In fact, even if we lost all of the 5,300 early Greek manuscripts, all of the 10,000 Latin vulgates, and all of the 9,300 other ancient manuscripts, we would be able to reconstruct all but 11 verses of the New Testament from the writings of the early Church leaders who quoted from them extensively. We have over 36,000 preserved quotes from the New Testament. In a nutshell, the Bible stands today as the best-preserved literary work of all antiquity, and it's overall reliability is without question!

Bible Truth - The Passion of the Ancient Writers
When it comes to Bible truth, many critics argue that the early Church deliberately corrupted the Bible's text for its own agenda. As for this argument, ask yourself one question: would a group of men who were willing to suffer terrible persecution and die horrible deaths in defense of the Scriptures be guilty of corrupting those very same Scriptures? That's lunacy! If they corrupted the Scriptures, or knowingly allowed them to be corrupted, that would mean they knowingly suffered and died for a lie! No one suffers and dies for a lie! For example, the September 11th suicide hijackers may have sincerely believed in what they died for, but they weren't in a position to know whether or not what they believed was true; they put their faith in traditions passed down to them over many generations. They didn't knowingly die for a lie; they died for a lie in ignorance.

In contrast, the New Testament's martyrs either saw what they claimed to see or they didn't; plain and simple. Either they interacted with the resurrected Christ or they didn't. They certainly knew whether or not their testimony was true! Nevertheless, these men clung to their testimonies, even to their brutal deaths at the hands of their persecutors, and despite being given every chance to recant, knowing full well whether their testimony was true of false. Why would so many men knowingly die for a lie? They had nothing to gain for lying and obviously everything to lose.

With the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls, manuscripts now exist from as early as 168 B.C., and confirm that Hebrew was still the language used by Jews during the time of Christ. In fact, their discovery has helped establish the preciseness and integrity of Hebrew scribes in accurately reproducing manuscripts throughout the ages.

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Then add to the the Museums worth of evidence of what the Bible speaks about in terms of Empires, Kings, Queens, People and events still being discovered today, not because of some other book but because of the Bible and what it has written within it, there are also clues and backup of tribes and people of ancient times written in thier own langauge on Egyptian walls let along other famous ancient empires who speak about about them. No doubt there was oral traditions too, where people remembered all these stories by heart, this was a Jewish thing anyway it was used in ancient times.

Its up to people what to decide but the whole debate of lack of evidence is not against the Bible but the more they discover the more it is for it.

There is a certain apocryphal book alledgely profcying the coming of Shaul Paulus, but which looks more like a prophecy of the coming of Muhammed. The book is called "The Epistle of the Apostles". Worth the read. The apostles are also told not to write down anything. Quite strange that the written book actually has this sentance.

www.interfaith.org...
I don't know this site other than that the writing I looked for was found on their website when I just now googled for the book in question.

reply to post by Justoneman

Originally posted by Justoneman
Do you want to follow a God who appears to be teaching mankind to love their neighbor, who also teaches we should forgive everyone of their sin because no one is sinless and for us to simply believe in the message? Or, a God who appears to demand you lie to unbelievers to further your practices of worship, have a 'radical' view from that same religion which allows killing and the brutal raping of your very own neighbors?

But see, that's the thing...you seem to be under the mistaken impression that lying and raping and killing is Islam. So you aren't really in a position to make an informed decision.


reply to post by The time lord

Originally posted by The time lord
So if they follow these books then why are they not included fully in the Quran and only mention it and rely on the Bible for such evidence? Without the Bible being preserved there is no reference of these books just guess work.

The Quran doesn't need to rely on the Bible for anything. It doesn't need to include the original versions either. It is completely self-contained. It was created BECAUSE these other scriptures were distorted.

You seem to be mixed up about quite a bit of Islamic history. Where does it say that Moses and Noah knew each other? Or that you need to ask the people of the book for advice? Why is it relevant, or even important that Jerusalem was not mentioned directly in the Quran?

Originally posted by The time lord
What many Muslim's do not know, is that because these two manuscripts were written in a script style called "Kufic", practicing Muslim scholars generally date these manuscripts no earlier than 200 years after Muhammad died. Had these two manuscripts been compiled any earlier, they would have been written in either the Ma'il or Mashq script style.

I'm sorry, your reasoning is faulty. The Dome of the Rock, completed less than 60 years after the death of Muhammad has a 240m long kufic inscription. You underestimate how long ago kufic existed.


reply to post by Fromabove

Originally posted by Fromabove
The reason Muhammad is a false prophet, is because he denies the fact that Jesus is the incarnate Son of God. Also he rejects Jesus as Savior. That Jesus died on the cross for all our sin. That Jesus blood is the atonement for sin. That Jesus is the only way to God the Father. Muhammad's followers are "anti-Christ" as was he. Not only do they believe the falsehoods taught to them concerning Jesus, but they also hate and kill the followers of Christ.

Is that a response to me? Because I was asking about Biblical definitions, not opinions. And according to the Bible, anyone who denies Jesus is the Christ is an anti-christ. So while Jews may be anti-christs, muslims are not. There is no mention of false prophets denying he died on the cross or such stuff.

Originally posted by Fromabove
No one should believe a word of the Quran as the word of God because of what the Quran itself teaches. Muhammad couldn't read or write a single word. The words written therefore were not his own. Since he did not have the ability to proof read it or know for sure, anything could have been written by the actual writers. Additionally, Muhammad may not have even know there was a Quran created in the first place, so his name may be subscribed to something for which he had no knowledge of.

Perhaps you are not aware of the history of the Quran. It has a very strong oral tradition as well. Muhammad didn't have to rely on anyone about the Quran. He memorised it as it came to him. So did several of his companions. The literate ones wrote it down. Every year, during Ramadan, Muhammad publicly went through the entire Quran, in order, that had been revealed so far.

Originally posted by Fromabove
Then there is the thing about the "right hand" and what it possesses. Since Muhammad could not write, he could not claim to be the author as told him from God. His right hand could not possess what it was they say he claimed.

Ehwhat? "What the right hand posseses" was a term to describe slaves. What are you on about?

Originally posted by Fromabove
Muhammad is never mentioned by name in the Bible. The word cited as his name is actually translated "my cousin".

You keep going on about cousins...where are you getting your information from? The word Mem-het-mem-dalet in the Bible (pronounced Mahmad) certaintly doesn't mean "my cousin". If you want to translate the meaning, it would be pleasant thing, desirable thing, etc. And according to your logic, Adam is never mentioned by name in the Bible. The word cited as his name is actually translated as "man"

Originally posted by Fromabove
I have read the Quran. It as hard to put it down.
.....
Yup. I've read the book.

Hahahahahhahaha...that is the most absurd nonsense I have ever heard. I may as well say "Of course I've read the story of Little Red Riding Hood! My favourite part is the bit with the gingerbread man".

reply to post by Jenisiz


I worship not out of fear, but willingly. I'm not superior to anybody and religion has been my guide to becoming a better person. Trust me if i didn't believe there was a God, I would probably be in Jail or dead.

Why don't you worship? Out of fear?

Originally posted by Serizawa
reply to post by Jenisiz

 

I worship not out of fear, but willingly. I'm not superior to anybody and religion has been my guide to becoming a better person. Trust me if i didn't believe there was a God, I would probably be in Jail or dead.

Why don't you worship? Out of fear?

edit on 23-9-2010 by Serizawa because: (no reason given)

How would me not believing in god be out of fear? I've lived a life full of servitude to those less fortunate. I take Therapy cases for kids who can't afford it. I donate time and money to those who need it. I don't lie and have never stolen. I've risked my life dozens of times saving people from shoot outs to pulling a 6 year old kid out of a car that was on fire only to have him die in my arms. It's sad to think that without believing in god you feel you'd be in jail or dead. It's sad to believe that you are incapable of just being a decent human being without there being a heavenly reward. I've seen way to many things in my life that have led me to believe there is a god. To surmise such a being or an aware computation in a book is mere idiocy. Another attempt at humans trying to rationalize things they cannot comprehend.

Edit: It is because of people like you that religion exists. They are incapable of just being "good" without there being an "adult" or authoritative figure watching. Humans are corrupt, and need a parent watching them constantly.

The only thing that Quran seem to is say is 'No it isn't' backed with no real true interpretation of the Books but parts of it to change it from the Bible. It may be self contained but the messages say do one thing and then another.

I am sure if people have the time and are concerned that they may look this up.

As a mixture of Arabian paganism, Zoroastrianism, Jewish Mysticism, and Apocryphal Christian writings, the Koran contradicts itself several times. For instance, it says that Moses was at the time of Noah. It says that Mary, the mother of Jesus, was the sister of Aaron. Aaron did have a sister named Mary, or Miriam, but she was not the mother of Jesus. Descriptions are contradictory in how Mohammed was called to be a prophet. It says that Mohammed was called by God, that he was called by the Holy Spirit, that he was called by angels, and that Gabriel called him. In some places Muslims are called to love ‘people of the book’, Christians and Jews, and in other places called to kill them. Mohammad's teachings
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reply to post by Jenisiz


You believe in a God yet you question why i worship. You surely have seen alot but never forget that you are not alone in your experiences. Do you think it's fair for you, Someone dedicating their lives to building a better society, helping the needy etc and someone like George bush or some money minded idiot to receive the same treatment after death? I doubt it. To me religion is like a knife, in trained hands it can be a tool...In the wrong hands it can be a weapon.

I've seen way to many things in my life that have led me to believe there is a god

Don't you think he deserves some praise from time to time?

reply to post by The time lord

Ohhhhhhhhhh...so you don't know it at all. You were just saying what you had read somewhere, but you haven't read the Quran (or even just the parts relevant to what you were discussing). Now when I ask you where you got such strange ideas from, you post a quote (without referencing where you got it from), and then say that I should look it up if I'm interested? I'm sorry, if you are going to make claims, you should be the one ready to back them up, not me.

You got your quote from this website?
Because it doesn't give references either.

Originally posted by Serizawa
reply to post by Jenisiz

 

You believe in a God yet you question why i worship. You surely have seen alot but never forget that you are not alone in your experiences. Do you think it's fair for you, Someone dedicating their lives to building a better society, helping the needy etc and someone like George bush or some money minded idiot to receive the same treatment after death? I doubt it. To me religion is like a knife, in trained hands it can be a tool...In the wrong hands it can be a weapon.

I've seen way to many things in my life that have led me to believe there is a god

Don't you think he deserves some praise from time to time?

edit on 23-9-2010 by Serizawa because: (no reason given)

It's not my place to judge whether or not those that lie, cheat and steal should be punished. I've been wronged on many occasions but understand that is life. And at those times, I wanted those responsible to be punished...but as I grew and began to understand the world more...I've come to the grips that they will not and should not. It's life, and all we can do is attempt to live it helping our brothers and sisters and trying to better ourselves. If those who chose to not do so continue to be "wrong" then it is their choice...period.

And finally, god isn't human...he doesn't need constant reassurance and praise. Worship comes from people assuming god has human like traits.

Originally posted by Jenisiz

Originally posted by Serizawa
reply to post by Jenisiz

 

I worship not out of fear, but willingly. I'm not superior to anybody and religion has been my guide to becoming a better person. Trust me if i didn't believe there was a God, I would probably be in Jail or dead.

Why don't you worship? Out of fear?

edit on 23-9-2010 by Serizawa because: (no reason given)

How would me not believing in god be out of fear? I've lived a life full of servitude to those less fortunate. I take Therapy cases for kids who can't afford it. I donate time and money to those who need it. I don't lie and have never stolen. I've risked my life dozens of times saving people from shoot outs to pulling a 6 year old kid out of a car that was on fire only to have him die in my arms. It's sad to think that without believing in god you feel you'd be in jail or dead. It's sad to believe that you are incapable of just being a decent human being without there being a heavenly reward. I've seen way to many things in my life that have led me to believe there is a god. To surmise such a being or an aware computation in a book is mere idiocy. Another attempt at humans trying to rationalize things they cannot comprehend.

Edit: It is because of people like you that religion exists. They are incapable of just being "good" without there being an "adult" or authoritative figure watching. Humans are corrupt, and need a parent watching them constantly.

edit on 23-9-2010 by Jenisiz because: (no reason given)

I guess many think like you. That's why Allah would send His Prophets, to teach people the reality of life. Why do you do good if there is no authoritative figure or God? It is because of fitra or original state. Deep inside you know doing good is better than doing bad, this is human nature.

However, doing good deeds, if it makes you feel good, then that is the reward or get the reward from the person you're doing good to. When a Muslim does good, we do it for the sake of Allah, we expect no thanks, knowing that our reward is with Allah. You see every action is rewarded by intention. If you think you can do good, without God letting you do good, you are mistaken, so you have to be thankful for Him letting you do good. Good deeds can have bad consequences as well as good.

And the kid that died in your arms, don't worry about him, children until they reach the age of responsibility and know right from wrong are without sin, so go straight to heaven.

Health is a blessing - If you didn't have it, how could you do good?
Wealth is a blessing - If you didn't have it, how could you do good?
When you risk your life, who protects you? Probability?

Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny? - Al Quran - Sura Rahman (The Benificent)

reply to post by Jenisiz

god isn't human...he doesn't need constant reassurance and praise

That's your opinion, Mine differs. IMO he deserves and requires more praise than any human being.

Humans are corrupt, and need a parent watching them constantly.

Kids also watch their parents constantly. Parents should set examples for their kids to follow. Religion sets a lot of examples for people to follow in order to better themselves. I don't see anything wrong with this.