Pope warns of "atheist extremism" on visit to Britain

Originally posted by hippomchippo

Nazis were catholics, weren't they?
Also I have to laugh at this part

He went on to urge the UK to guard against "aggressive forms of secularism".

He basically just wants to oppress atheists and create a theocracy, it seems.

Nazis were catholics, protestants, human secularists, members of the Thule Society and more. What's your point?

I seriously doubt that he wants to create a theocracy in Great Britain. Especially considering that the CoE has as it's titular head the Queen.

Eric

Originally posted by blupblup
reply to post by EricD

 

1) Well if they're willing to not use contraception because the Pope says so... my guess is that if he says they must use it, they may well do so.

2) Unless I am mistaken, women are not permitted to preside over Mass, Nor can they administer over most of the sacraments, which are reserved for priests and bishops.


3) The homosexuality one ought to be obvious.

"although the particular inclination of the homosexual person is not a sin, it is a more or less strong tendency ordered toward an intrinsic moral evil; and thus the inclination itself must be seen as an objective disorder"

1) Clearly not. They are ignoring the Church's teaching about sex outside the marriage, so what makes you think that they would adhere to a teaching regarding contraception?

2) I'm not getting the point here. According to the Church, men and women have different roles. They are not 'better' or 'worse'. They are different. Men cannot join a cloistered order of nuns. Laypeople can't conduct masses. That's oppression some how?

3) The Church teaches that sex outside the marriage and sex without the end result being the normal means of procreation is a sinful act. I'm fairly well versed in Catholic teaching (but not as much as I should be) and I have never read or heard anything that said that homosexual acts were worse than, let's say, adulteress acts.

Eric

Originally posted by blupblup

If you seriously think that atheism and it's rise is not a concern for someone that considers themselves to be the successor to Peter, I think that you may want to reconsider your arguments.

Where did I say that?

In discussing his motivation for 'attacking atheists' you said that it was a means to divert attention from the sex scandals.

Here is the quote:

"He was obviously looking for a way to draw attention away from his paedophilia ridden group.... and thought "how about I attack intelligent, peace loving people instead."
Can't attack Muslims that's politically incorrect and I may be harmed.... so I'll attack Atheists."

Did I misquote you? If that was a quote from someone else, I apologize.

BTW, I've responded to the posts as I came across them, but I've now finished reading each post as of this response.

Eric

Originally posted by EricD
1) Clearly not. They are ignoring the Church's teaching about sex outside the marriage, so what makes you think that they would adhere to a teaching regarding contraception.

Well for the Pope to say that condoms could make the problem of HIV in Africa worse, is a terrible and destructive thing to say.
Condoms could absolutely help in stopping the spread of disease.

The spokesman said that:

"The Roman Catholic church encourages sexual abstinence and fidelity to prevent the disease from spreading", but it is a policy that has divided some clergy working with Aids patients.

Of forget about the 'all sex should lead to babies' crap for a minute... people are dying and the disease is spreading... he has a moral duty to protect and save peoples lives.... "With great power comes great responsibility" (just to go back to the superhero theme from earlier)

He could be a power for good by helping in the distribution and education of contraception, instead he lets people get infected and die.

Nice.

2) I'm not getting the point here. According to the Church, men and women have different roles. They are not 'better' or 'worse'. They are different. Men cannot join a cloistered order of nuns. Laypeople can't conduct masses. That's oppression some how?

How can they be equal?

As I said before

"Unless I am mistaken, women are not permitted to preside over Mass, Nor can they administer over most of the sacraments, which are reserved for priests and bishops."

It's not just that they have different roles, women are not equal to men, in the eyes of the church and in the words of the Bible.

You may not be getting the point, but It's a pretty obvious point..
.

3) The Church teaches that sex outside the marriage and sex without the end result being the normal means of procreation is a sinful act. I'm fairly well versed in Catholic teaching (but not as much as I should be) and I have never read or heard anything that said that homosexual acts were worse than, let's say, adulteress acts.

Eric

And so they might teach that, but to call someone's life choice or sexual preference a "moral evil" and to then go on to protect and hide Paedophiles, is absolutely hypocritical.

Sex is only OK between a married man and a married women, unless you're a Priest and then.... well, anything goes I guess.

It's now 1:19am...

I'm off to bed.

Peace

Something to consider for those who believe The Nazi's were Catholics, approximately 3million Catholics died in the concentration camps and despite the inactivity of The Vatican numerous Catholic priests actively resisted The Nazi's and many were involved in the underground helping Jews,escaped Allied prisoners and other Nazi opponents to escape.

Ratzinger's father refused to support The Nazi's and it is well documented that allthough Ratzinger joined The Hitler Youth, which was a legal requirement for all 14 year olds, he refused to attend meetings.

Originally posted by EricD
On discussing his motivation for 'attacking atheists' you said that it was a means to divert attention from the sex scandals.

And it may well have been... create more controversy and maybe people wont ask as many questions.
Anyway, It's nice to see you picking and choosing quotes.


Your point was that Atheism is a concern for the pope.... I have said nothing to the contrary and as I said, if you'd read my other posts instead of choosing one or two here, you would have had a better idea of what I've said in this thread.

Now you have, that's good.

Nowhere in this thread have I said that Atheism isn't a threat to Catholicism.. Atheism is a thread to all religions, as more and more people wise up and shed the shackles of the mind-control and crap that is organised religion, the better and happier and more peaceful the world will be.

Here is the quote:

"He was obviously looking for a way to draw attention away from his paedophilia ridden group.... and thought "how about I attack intelligent, peace loving people instead."
Can't attack Muslims that's politically incorrect and I may be harmed.... so I'll attack Atheists."

Did I misquote you? If that was a quote from someone else, I apologize.

No you didn't.... but you don't have a point.
I KNOW for a fact that atheism is an issue for the pope.... so saying that I think it's not is just pointless.

As I said, It's late.

Have fun.

Originally posted by blupblup
1) And it may well have been... create more controversy and maybe people wont ask as many questions.
Anyway, It's nice to see you picking and choosing quotes.


2) Your point was that Atheism is a concern for the pope.... I have said nothing to the contrary and as I said, if you'd read my other posts instead of choosing one or two here, you would have had a better idea of what I've said in this thread.

3) Now you have, that's good.

4) Here is the quote:

"He was obviously looking for a way to draw attention away from his paedophilia ridden group.... and thought "how about I attack intelligent, peace loving people instead."
Can't attack Muslims that's politically incorrect and I may be harmed.... so I'll attack Atheists."

Did I misquote you? If that was a quote from someone else, I apologize.

No you didn't.... but you don't have a point.
I KNOW for a fact that atheism is an issue for the pope.... so saying that I think it's not is just pointless.

1) Could you explain what you mean by 'picking and choosing quotes'? If I don't pick and choose what I respond to I have two choices. I can either respond to every post or I can only respond to the general theme of the thread. If you would prefer that people don't respond to what you write, you may want to consider a blog or somewhere else where you can control the feedback.

2) Ok, I'm at a loss here. You clearly and unequivocally state that the reason for the discussion of extremist atheism was to divert attention from paedophelia. How on earth am I off topic here (if that is your complaint)?

3) I guess that I wasn't clear before, so let me correct that. For every reply that I made to a post I had read every post up to that point. I did not skip and jump. I did not reply without knowing what the context was that I was replying to. If you posted and I replied I read every single post that led up to yours prior to replying.

4) How can I 'not have a point' when I was answering a direct question of yours?
You asked:
'Where did I say that?'

I answered. How can that be construed as not being to the point?


Eric

how is the pope responsible for wars across the world. the vatican doesn't even have an army. if you want to look at the one country that has been continuously at war is the united states.

atheism is not a conscious act of
turning away from all gods.It is simply the final destination for
those who THINK!.

and didn't this pope have something to do with the assassination of Pope John Paul I in 1972,deeply involved with the cover up of that incident,the pope and his cronies,are a corrupt group of people all with questionable histories.
they are just upset,as people in england dont give a monkeys about the pope and his rock and roll begging bowl tour....

why does god always need money..and how comes the pope needs 6 inch bullet proof glass,on his tour,not seeing a lot of faith in god with the popemobile..lol.

reply to post by snapperski


Ah so people who allow for the possibility does not think? Rather broad brush you're using there are you not?

this is concerning the english view on the pope.

The antipathy towards him was not made any easier by Cardinal Walter Kasper's comments to a German magazine branding the UK a "Third World country" because of its multiculturalism.

HONESLTY,this just shows how out of touch these fools are.

AND get this,

Pope Benedict XVI's arrival as a head of state rather than a religious leader has angered many protestors, who say the Vatican's status as a nation state is merely a useful and arbitrary fiction reflecting the disproportionate power of the church.

as was said in the quote,its all about power,head of state LMAO!

a famous quote that sums up english attitude ,even though i can stand this man..

The phrase comes from Alastair Campbell, who famously told journalists the Labour government "doesn't do God", despite Tony Blair's faith.

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows


clearly you not reach you're final destination,my friend

reply to post by snapperski


It's funny how people will declare where they are "Where it's at" and the only way to go. Shows a certain level of ignorance you ask me. As does making such a statement with such abysmal typing skills.

Originally posted by snapperski

and didn't this pope have something to do with the assassination of Pope John Paul I in 1972,deeply involved with the cover up of that incident,the pope and his cronies,are a corrupt group of people all with questionable histories.

I'm flabbergasted at how irresponsible this statement was. I mean, the previous statement about thinking atheists was arrogant and a bit supercilious, but accusing the current Pope of being involved with the assassination of one of his predecessors without offering any supporting facts, documentation or links is beyond the pale.

It's nice to be reminded on occasion of why people are so skeptical of what they read on the internet. Unsupported character assassination and calumny add nothing to a discussion.

Eric

Originally posted by Freeborn
Something to consider for those who believe The Nazi's were Catholics, approximately 3million Catholics died in the concentration camps and despite the inactivity of The Vatican numerous Catholic priests actively resisted The Nazi's and many were involved in the underground helping Jews,escaped Allied prisoners and other Nazi opponents to escape.

Ratzinger's father refused to support The Nazi's and it is well documented that allthough Ratzinger joined The Hitler Youth, which was a legal requirement for all 14 year olds, he refused to attend meetings.

Let's have a look at what Hitler actually said shall we?

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God’s truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow my self to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice… And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows . For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people." –Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922

Hitler used Christianity as justification to exterminate Judaism. Both Pope Pius XI and XII (not very original are they?) were anti-semetic and actually supported the Nazis. Perhaps you should base your interpretation on historical facts, rather than religious dogma?

The pope seems like an angry kid who had his candy stolen

Believe in god...OR ELSE!! I'm serious, do it, do it now!! Otherwise you're all Nazis and terrorists extremists!!

Buahahahahahahaha

Originally posted by mr-lizard
He's a joke.

Somebody should tell him that atheism is the OLDEST belief on the planet.

I'm fairly certain Adam wasn't an Atheist.

reply to post by Jerry_Teps

Let's have a look at what Hitler actually said shall we?

You linked a Hitler quote from a public speech the man made. You should link what he told private pro-nazi personal friends as regards to Christianity instead. the man played the people for fools, he most certianly was no Christian and acted like one whenever speaking to the public.

reply to post by Jerry_Teps


First of all, I'm not religious in any shape or form and freely admit to being agnostic.
The blind faith and at times blatant ignorance of both Atheists and Theists at times never ceases to amaze me.
Your assumption that I speak from religious conviction just reinforces that view.

If I was to offer a quote from Hitler stating that he had no intention to invade the whole of Czechoslovakia after he had been gifted The Sudetanland would you thus assume that all subsequent reports of his expansionism as false?
Quoting Hitler's public speeches from 1922 when he was a virtual unknown carries little credence and at times bears little in common with historical fact.

And the FACTS are that 3million Catholics died in Nazi death camps and that many Catholics, along side some Protestants and even some Atheists I dare say, were actively involved with the underground movement.

Hitler may indeed have used Christianity as a tool to help justify his anti-semitism, but it was one of many.
Hitler distanced himself from The Catholic church early in his life, as anyone who has studied his life will tell you.

The Vatican's stance during WWII is unforgivable.
But that does not mean that all Catholic's of the day supported Hitler or that those that followed are Nazi sympathisers.

Originally posted by mr-lizard
He's a joke.

Somebody should tell him that atheism is the OLDEST belief on the planet.

If God created humanity, then worship of the Creator is the OLDEST belief on the planet.

If humanity came from a godless nature, then I am CERTAIN that there would be incredible amounts of irony in our history if it was found that the very first belief the first homo sapiens had was, "There is no God."

Don't you think that humanity would have to go through the steps to actually develop a god first before it could believe that the god didn't exist?

If humanity came from a godless nature, then the oldest belief on the planet was probably "Kill or be killed."

And the pope is just going on a crusade about atheism to simply cause more divide and bickering to fuel the fires which divide humanity to develop more control.

By the bellows of my bowels raging flames of fury have made brighter, says the old pope.