Do You Believe In Transsexualism?

One of these gals is a guy.

reply to post by ThichHeaded


I can believe how homosexuality or transexuality is created from your response. So basically a man was killed in one life and then transfers into the next life as a woman. That persona from the previous life takes control of the next life body. I always believe that personality never changes from one life to the next life.

interesting thought indeed....

Originally posted by free_form
I have no real opinion of this. Never really put much thought into why these people would get HRT, or why these people feel they are not the right gender, but just a general fascination as to how the entire process works (HRT), and how the human body is so malleable in regards to gender. It really is like cheating our DNA.

Anyhow, I guess some people are just born feeling different, and they have some congenital inclination that they are not the correct gender.

[edit on 4-9-2010 by free_form]

That is why I find the human mind fascinating. The mind is so damn fragile that any event can change the mind of a person. But at the same time humanity makes me laugh as well because of stupid things like the topic of this thread.

reply to post by Death_Kron


Yes, quite simply there are some people who appear to be born the wrong gender. There is quite a lot of research surrounding this and many theories about how much testosterone/estrogen the developing fetus is exposed to and brain scans showing various areas are different to others of their biological gender.

I don't understand why people get so upset about the issue. If someone feels like a woman/man but born as a man/woman and wants that changed then why should anyone care what that individual does to his/her own body?

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


Of course said individual has the right to do what ever they wish to themselves, I'm not denying that however that doesn't mean that I have to agree with it.

The fact of the matter is that you cannot change your sex, no matter what sex organs you mutilate or however large amount of chemicals you consume, it simply cannot be done.

I'm not buying into the responses that said male is now a female after sex surgery, no he isn't - he's simply a male who has had his parts removed and probably undergone hormone therapy.

There's a few links that people have posted that I need to read up on as I've been busy the last few days and not really had a chance to post or properly digest the latest comments and information posted.

Still, you cannot change your sex.

People can argue and pose questions such as "well how do you define a man? Is it simply his sex organs etc" as much as they want, the crux of it is that a man is a man and a woman a woman.

Originally posted by Death_Kron
People can argue and pose questions such as "well how do you define a man? Is it simply his sex organs etc" as much as they want, the crux of it is that a man is a man and a woman a woman.

So if a man has his testicles removed so he now has around the same level of testoserone as a woman, if he then removes his sexual organs completely and grows breasts due to hormonal therapy and if he has always felt like he was suppoosed to be a woman, thinks like a woman and does stereotypically womanly things then what exactly is he if not a woman?

He in no way bears resemblance to a man anymore.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


He is a man pretending to be a woman by modifying his body.

Just like a car without wheels is still a car (albeit a wheeless one) a man removing his testicles is still a man (albeit one without testicles)

Originally posted by Death_Kron
He is a man pretending to be a woman by modifying his body.

Just like a car without wheels is still a car (albeit a wheeless one) a man removing his testicles is still a man (albeit one without testicles)

edit on by Death_Kron because: (no reason given)

If a car has two wheels removed, it's frame altered and bodywork changed it can quickly become a motorbike, it is no longer a car.

Now of course genetically someone who undergoes sexual reassignment will still have the genes associated with their original gender (xx or xy), so from that standpoint you are correct. However in the aspects that matter, their outward appearance and mindset, they have changd gender. Indeed their mindset was always that of the gender they wished to become and now their body can be changed to suit it.

What about when genetic engineering gets to the point where a true reassignment can be made (it will happen), will you then accept such people or are you of the opinion that no matter what happens to you then you are always as you were born? In which case what about heamaphrodites? Some of them are made to be boys by their parents but they feel like girls and vice versa.

Originally posted by Death_Kron
reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

 

Of course said individual has the right to do what ever they wish to themselves, I'm not denying that however that doesn't mean that I have to agree with it.

The fact of the matter is that you cannot change your sex, no matter what sex organs you mutilate or however large amount of chemicals you consume, it simply cannot be done.

I'm not buying into the responses that said male is now a female after sex surgery, no he isn't - he's simply a male who has had his parts removed and probably undergone hormone therapy.

There's a few links that people have posted that I need to read up on as I've been busy the last few days and not really had a chance to post or properly digest the latest comments and information posted.

Still, you cannot change your sex.

People can argue and pose questions such as "well how do you define a man? Is it simply his sex organs etc" as much as they want, the crux of it is that a man is a man and a woman a woman.

This is exactly the kind of response I think everyone expected. I believe that all this person is doing is trying to provoke a response and hurt others.

A response without actually reading what everyone has actually said to him.

All that is left to say is you are an ignorant person who is part of planets problem.

I feel sorry for you and I hope that you are fortunate enough to have a perfect life and nothing comes to bite you on the bottom later. Karma "what you give is what you get returned"

Transexualism is as real as a cleft palate, its as real as parkinsons, Huntingtons, Multiple Sclerosis. It is not a modern day phenomenen and the pain people suffer is pain you are fortunate enough not to suffer.

I hope you find inner peace and that you can get over any issues YOU are having.

Transexualism has been around as long as humanity and is not a new at all. In fact it was accepted and even revered in most ancient cultures and is today even in islamic countries like iran. They also had a kind of sexual reassignment surgery to help these people in ancient times which involved the crushing of the testes.

It seems however that our so called western enlightened culture cannot get a grip of transexualism unlike our ancesters who could and had compassion on these people...

Transexualism is real, and debating it the way some ignorant bigots on this forum just shows low levels of inteligence and extreme ignorance.. It seems that our western culture is indeed an evolutionary step backwards..

I'm going to use a metaphor I've used to defend Gay people as well ( and no, they are not the same; you neanderthals)...

If you are a man, and a woman tells you that there is tremendous pain in childbirth, you believe them because you are not a woman.. do you not? Or do you fabricate arguments, do you say, "Well if I had a vagina, it wouldn't hurt!" Of course you don't, you have no experience with the topic so you don't fabricate an "opinion" on it (it is not really an opinion, as you are arguing with a FACT as far as the woman is concerned).

I personally don't understand transsexualism fully either, which is why I don't assume that it isn't possible and start fabricating hateful or disrespectful "opinions", as I realize I will simply be embarrassing myself to any transsexual person because I am arguing against something that they know is a fact.

It's really not so much a matter of belief or opinion as it is just a matter of ignorance and pathological fabrication.

Originally posted by Brood
I'm going to use a metaphor I've used to defend Gay people as well ( and no, they are not the same; you neanderthals)...

Err hang on, they are not the same in which way? Obviously the terms are different, one is an attraction to the same sex and another is the feeling you are born the wrong gender, however they are the same in the sense that they are two groups of people who are seemingly born the way they are.

I don't understand why being transexual is such a big issue to the OP and some others who have posted.

Originally posted by Pinke

Originally posted by Dark Ghost

Originally posted by ~Vixen~
I think that you'd find that science is working more to prevent tumultuous issues such as this from ever happening rather than manipulating DNA as part of some agenda.

It doesn't really matter if it is part of some agenda or not, interfering with nature can carry some very bad consequences for all of humanity if things go too far. If somebody decides they really want to be a Horse and technology was able to accommodate this wish, would you support it? How about somebody who feels they are really "meant" to be a dolphin?

This is basically quoting a South Park episode. One of the biggest issues with today's society is that the majority of people seem to pick up their political beliefs from South Park and Colbert episodes. In this instance the South Park boys own logic pokes holes in their beliefs. They joke about the so called slippery slope of drugs and homosexuality - and then in the same breath apply slippery slope logic to transsexuals. They are just appealing to the lowest common denominator of opinion in much the same way Pen and Teller might.

I'm glad you were able to identify similarities between my post and a South park episode you watched on TV. Ironically though, I gave up watching TV over a decade ago, and have never watched an episode, so my thoughts were my own, and not mindless quoting of a television cartoon.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984

Originally posted by Brood
I'm going to use a metaphor I've used to defend Gay people as well ( and no, they are not the same; you neanderthals)...

Err hang on, they are not the same in which way? Obviously the terms are different, one is an attraction to the same sex and another is the feeling you are born the wrong gender, however they are the same in the sense that they are two groups of people who are seemingly born the way they are.

I don't understand why being transexual is such a big issue to the OP and some others who have posted.

Of course they are the same in certain ways.. sorry, I really don't think of people in groups, just terms that affect people individually. Almost all, if not all, transsexual people will tell you that they feel like they should have been a different gender, like they are the opposite sex but given the wrong body. Gay people are happy with the body they have, they have a different preference sexually, like transsexual people, it is something they cannot control or change, much like how I don't like lasagna even though everyone else seems to, it is repulsive to all of my senses.

I, however, consider myself to be a little more mature -- more than most people on this forum anyway. I am not going to argue with people and tell them that what they do with lasagna is revolting or wrong because it is not what I do, I assume to some people it tastes great because they TELL ME SO, and I assume they are not lying because i am not THICK and/or ARROGANT. I will politely sit and accept (not even tolerate, accept) the tendencies of people during the act of eating lasagna, I do not repeatedly make comments about how much I dislike it throughout the meal; I don't get angry when someone tells me its good or eats it in front of me.

I am more than aware that people have different experiences in life with a lot of things and this includes preferences or opinions concerning their bodies that they cannot control. People are all different and I really don't understand why people can't just accept that; why does everyone have to make up some opinion concerning everything they do not or cannot understand? Do they really feel it is their place to do so? How do they think the minorities feel when they talk about them like what they have to say about the issue doesn't matter, even though they are obviously the most experienced about the topic? The general public really just needs to grow up already.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


If I have the mindset that I'm superman does that make me him? How about if I have the mindset that I'm a frog, does that mean I'm actually a frog or does it mean that I believe that I'm a frog?

What about that crazy cat woman who believed she was a cat and as such altered her body image with various tatoos and piercings in a (feeble) attempt to look like one?

As previously mentioned, if said individual wants to do that then it's completely up to them and none of my business - but that doesn't mean I have to agree with it...

Your probably right in saying that in the future science will allow true gender re-assignment, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and mine on the matter is that nature shouldn't be messed with, it's had disastrous consequences in the past and will continue to do so in the future.

What if it comes to the point that science allows us to become frogs (staying with frogs as I used that example above)? Of course it's none of my business but I definately wouldn't agree with it...

reply to post by IanC99000310


It's the exact response everyone expected? Really? Then why are people agreeing with me and starring my posts???

I find it hilarious that you believe I'm "one of this planets problems" but your entitled to your opinion.

You can feel sorry for me as much as you want, to be honest (coming from someone speaking about Karma) I wouldn't waste the energy.

Once again, I'll thank you for your worries. Although I haven't found inner peace due to certain circumstances in my life, my gender isn't one of them.

Originally posted by Death_Kron
reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

 

If I have the mindset that I'm superman does that make me him? How about if I have the mindset that I'm a frog, does that mean I'm actually a frog or does it mean that I believe that I'm a frog?

The difference being yo cannot become super human or a frog and so your argument is flawed from the beginning.

Originally posted by Death_Kron
What about that crazy cat woman who believed she was a cat and as such altered her body image with various tatoos and piercings in a (feeble) attempt to look like one?

She did not alter her body to the point she is clearly a cat and her brain when scanned will reveal no cat like formations, whereas a transexual will often show a brain similar to that of the gender they feel like.

Originally posted by Death_Kron
As previously mentioned, if said individual wants to do that then it's completely up to them and none of my business - but that doesn't mean I have to agree with it...

Nope you don't have to agree with it, however your reasons for disliking it seem to be based on nothing more than a gut feeling it is wrong and that's the kind of feeling that people hate homosexuals for, and black people for and well you get the point here. It's nothing more than bigoted bnonsense and bigotry will only hold the human race back. You are antitled to your belief because that's what freedom is all about.

Originally posted by Death_Kron
Your probably right in saying that in the future science will allow true gender re-assignment, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and mine on the matter is that nature shouldn't be messed with, it's had disastrous consequences in the past and will continue to do so in the future.

I see nature shouldn't be messed with. Well in that case, have you ever had medical intervention? That's messing with nature, ever had a vaccine? That's messing with nature. Oh and the computer you are using was created with very unatural processes, along with anything you have ever eaten, from wheat to dairy.

Originally posted by Death_Kron
What if it comes to the point that science allows us to become frogs (staying with frogs as I used that example above)? Of course it's none of my business but I definately wouldn't agree with it...

Yeah that's some quality ignorance of genetics right there. It can't happen because if you tried to do that to someone they would die. Switching gender is not the same as switching species. If someone switches species they will die, unless we find another intelligent race of course and we figure out some kind of body switching lol but lets stick to realities which seem possible shall we?

reply to post by Death_Kron


Don't waste your time dude. You're flogging a dead horse. It's not enough that you agree that people have the right to change gender, (or think that they are changing gender).

You must also totally agree with their decision. If you do not agree with their decision, you are a bigot, and a racist, a homophobe and an ignorant insensitive monster. Don't waste your time.

Unless you embrace their perversion wholeheartedly, 100%, and without reservation, you will be relentlessly attacked. You are not entitled to your own opinion. Your views on this subject do not matter and only go to prove your overwhelming bigotry towards those who would fail miserably as human beings. Any criticism is unwelcome, unwarranted, and unnecessary.

Misery loves company. Your compassion is not appreciated. Your point of view is moot. And damn all those would be transsexuals who take your observations into consideration. How dare you?

reply to post by MY2Commoncentsworth


Nice try but only you and kron are buying that one. Check around and you'll find people saying they respect your right to hold whatever view you wish. However to dislike someone over their sex or perceived sex is most certainly bigoted and as much as you may not like the label it is at it is.

To tell someone to not bother is rather pathetic, the point of the forum is debate and debate is what has gone on. There are those who have pointed out the scientific reasons for the way transexuals feel, they realise they are born that way and they realise there is no reason to dislike such people because of this. Then there are those who have the view that it's wrong and they have no real basis for that other than the gut reaction that is so easy to take notice of.

It's exactly the same reason that people hate gay people, black people or the opposite gender. If you want to hold an opinion like that then fine, that is your right but please don't try and write off those who have a problem with what you're saying as some kind of crusading, politically correct extremists.