Do You Believe In Transsexualism?, page 1

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ATS Members have flagged this thread 9 times

Topic started on 3-9-2010 @ 09:22 AM by Death_Kron

Note: Mod's, I wasn't sure where to put this. It's not really a conspiracy so please feel free to move as appropriate.

Hello all,

I've got a quick question for all you, simply do you believe in transsexualism? i.e. do you think that some people are born "in the wrong gender"

Personally, I can't get my head around it. I've recently accepted that homosexuality isn't a choice and that gays/bi's are born that way although in some circumstances I do still think that homosexual relationships can be a choice rather than a naturally born sexuality.

I cannot however accept transsexualism, this isn't a dig at those who have had gender reassignment surgery but put simply it's not possible to have a sex change.

Sure you can have hormone therapy, implants, surgery etc but I'm sorry at the end of the day if your born a man you'll always be a man, if your born a women then your always going a women.

If you take a car and remove all it's wheels it doesn't become a boat, it's a car with no wheels.

If you have a man who has his bits cut off and hormone therapy then I'm sorry but he's still a man just with modifications.

You'll always be what you are born as and that cannot be changed.

I find homosexuality hard enough to understand but transsexualism is really beyond me.

I'm not trying to cause any offence to anyone just describing my personal views.

Thoughts?

reply posted on 3-9-2010 @ 09:37 AM by Benevolent Heretic

I know I am a woman. I feel like a woman. I can't explain that, really, but even if I didn't have a body, I would KNOW that I'm a woman. My personality is that of a woman. Even though I like science fiction, am good at math and can tune up my car, I'm a woman. My sexual organs are a minor part of what makes me a woman.

So, that being said, if someone tells me that they feel like a woman, I'm going to believe them, no matter what sex organs they have.

If you didn't have sex organs, would you be confused about your gender? I'm going to guess not. And you may want the sex organs of the gender that you feel you are.

People are born gay (I didn't have to "decide" to be heterosexual), people are born with both sex organs. Hermaphrodites' gender isn't based on their organs. It's based on something else. This illusive "knowing". If people are born with both sexual organs, why couldn't they be born with the wrong sexual organs?

So, yes, I believe in transsexuals. Absolutely. I've known some and they were women in every sense of the word except for their genitals. Genitals alone do not make the gender.

reply posted on 3-9-2010 @ 09:41 AM by ThichHeaded

I believe in reincarnation.. So therefor I believe sometimes the lines get crosses in the subconscious mind to make this happen..

Like in a past life a guy is killed then in this life he believes he is a guy in a girls body.. I have read many past life exp's to know that in many cases the people have more than 1 switch as their souls are converted from life to life..

So you I believe that may be the case..

reply posted on 3-9-2010 @ 09:42 AM by Romantic_Rebel

The reason I don't believe a man can become a woman and vise versa. That a a person of the opposite sex can never truly become the opposite. Getting privates cut a certain way does not make you the opposite sex. This is just my opinion on this subject.

reply posted on 3-9-2010 @ 09:45 AM by getreadyalready

reply to post by Death_Kron

Good Question.

I think, biologically, it is possible for someone to develop as one sex, and then switch to another sex. Maybe they have latent hormones that cause them to lean more one way than the other, despite their physical characteristics. It is obvious that we have some men born more feminine than others, and we have some women born more masculine than others.

Now, I think you are asking the harder question about whether or not this "should" lead to homosexuality and/or sex change operations. My answer to both of those questions is a resounding NO.

I know we have a lot of homosexual members on ATS, and I hope they don't take it personally, but I don't believe it is biological in nature, and I don't even believe that it is more than a perversion. If a man is homosexual, then the last thing that should be attractive to him is another homosexual man? Hmmm? He should only be attracted to masculine heterosexual men, if the affliction is real? The same goes for women. If a women is homosexual, the last thing in the world that should be attractive to her is a masculine women dressed and acting butch? How does that make any sense?

I am a very straight man, and I have seen other men that were attractive, and in a prison setting, or a very, very, long sea tour, maybe I would start to have thoughts? But, these were very feminine men, that could be mistaken for women. I have never in my life seen a masculine man that was attractive to me. It seems to me the same would be true for a homosexual man. Maybe they see some feminine men or masculine women that they might branch out to during a long dry spell, but in general, their attraction should be the masculine male.

Since, we all see in practice that homosexual men and women are generally paired up with other homosexual men and women, it seems to shoot a hole in the whole biological theory. If they are hardwired to be feminine and be attracted to masculine, then we should not see them with other feminine men, and vice versa for women.

Therefore, in my very unmedical, and probably intolerant and sexist opinion, for which I apologize in advance, but in my opinion, homosexuality is just a fetish or perversion, and not biological in nature.

reply posted on 3-9-2010 @ 09:47 AM by ThichHeaded

reply to post by Romantic_Rebel

That wasn't the question.. The question was do you believe in transsexualism.. or something..

That isn't answering the question so to speak it don't matter what they do its how they feel.. Its the same as if someone got a fake leg or eye to feel like they have their whole body back..

reply posted on 3-9-2010 @ 09:49 AM by InfaRedMan

I believe in transsexualism. There are many things that can go wrong in the womb. Some physical, some hormonal and some neurological. I don't understand why the Op is having a tough time wrapping his/her head around the concept.

iRM 2.0

[edit on 3/9/10 by InfaRedMan]

reply posted on 3-9-2010 @ 09:51 AM by Death_Kron

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

That was a very good post, have a star from me

Like I said, I'm not trying to upset anyone or cause any offence. I just find it quite difficult to understand although as you mentioned people are born gay so what's not to say people are born with the wrong sexual organs?

I guess one of my arguments though is the fact that if your born a man then your a man, if your born a women then your a women, no arguments in that respect in my opinion.

It's okay saying you know transsexual's who acted like women but were in reality men, well I know people like that too; it's called men with feminine character traits.

Just like you have women who display masculine traits and who are usually described as being "butch"

I do understand the point your trying to make about your sex organs not ruling who you are but unfortunately, and science tells us this, that is actually the truth.

For example, I'm male and could be described as the typical bloke. I drink, smoke, enjoy martial arts/boxing, BBQ's etc

However, I'm not particulary interested in fast cars or mechanics (unlike nearly all my male friends) I like philosophy, quantum mechanics, the paranormal, electronics etc etc

The above two paragraphs about me seem to present a contradiction and that's my point! Everyone is different and everyone has different interests, I know men who are very feminine and not similiar to me at all however they have never said they want to change their sex or that they were born in the wrong body.

I'll go on a whim here and say that could transsexuality not be a little bit of a cop out? i.e. a bloke who is born with feminine traits cannot accept the fact he isn't manly and thus wants a sex change.

I know many teenagers who "become" gay or lesbian because of various social reasons that makes them feel they do not belong in a relationship with members of the opposite sex and thus they pursue homosexual relationships with other people in a similiar situation in order to fit in.

reply posted on 3-9-2010 @ 09:51 AM by Romantic_Rebel

Originally posted by ThichHeaded
reply to post by Romantic_Rebel

That wasn't the question.. The question was do you believe in transsexualism.. or something..

That isn't answering the question so to speak it don't matter what they do its how they feel.. Its the same as if someone got a fake leg or eye to feel like they have their whole body back..

No I answered the question Just because you don't the answer I provided doesn't mean I ignored the question. Personally no man or woman can become the opposite sex. This is about transgendered not about anything else.

reply posted on 3-9-2010 @ 09:52 AM by Death_Kron

Originally posted by Romantic_Rebel
The reason I don't believe a man can become a woman and vise versa. That a a person of the opposite sex can never truly become the opposite. Getting privates cut a certain way does not make you the opposite sex. This is just my opinion on this subject.

That's exactly my view.

Sex change isn't actually possible, you'll always be the sex you was born as. Anything else is simply a modification...

reply posted on 3-9-2010 @ 09:54 AM by Romantic_Rebel

Originally posted by Death_Kron

Originally posted by Romantic_Rebel
The reason I don't believe a man can become a woman and vise versa. That a a person of the opposite sex can never truly become the opposite. Getting privates cut a certain way does not make you the opposite sex. This is just my opinion on this subject.

That's exactly my view.

Sex change isn't actually possible, you'll always be the sex you was born as. Anything else is simply a modification...

Well I have a friend; Travis who came out as gay or he's Bi sexual. But what i found weird is that he wanted to become a woman and change his name to Coraline. I feel the same way I hate seeing men or women being able to become the opposite sex because they don't like their own gender.

reply posted on 3-9-2010 @ 09:55 AM by Dark Ghost

If you believe the only difference between men and women is their genitalia then you probably would see Transsexualism as something "normal". When you realise that men and women differ in many other areas including mental functions and behavioural responses to hormonal imbalances, one can see quite clearly that Transsexualism is an abnormality.

I don't mean that as an insult. Somebody diagnosed as Acrophobic (irrational fear of heights/high places) would also be considered an abnormality.

[edit on 3/9/2010 by Dark Ghost]

reply posted on 3-9-2010 @ 09:55 AM by LordBucket

reply to post by Death_Kron

do you think that some people are born "in the wrong gender"

The expression "born in the wrong gender" is a way of describing/rationalizing the phenemonon. It is not necesarily an accurate description of the phenomenon itself.

I do still think that homosexual relationships can be a
choice rather than a naturally born sexuality.

Ok. But understand that works both ways. If homosexual relationships can be a choice, then heterosexual relationships can be a choice too, right? So the reasion you enjoy heterosexual relationships is because you've "chosen to" right?

Do you believe that? If your answer is yes, then your position is at least self consistent.

I find homosexuality hard enough to understand

Why is it important to you to try? Some people like all sorts of things. Pokemon. Being tied down during sex. Jogging. All sorts of a variety of things some of which do, and many of which don't have anything to do with sex. Do you relate to them all? Do you understand why everyone enjoys every last little thing they enjoy? No? So why should sex be any different?

There are people who enjoy having sex with shoes. Does that make any more sense to you than wanting to have sex with people of the same gender, or wanting to be a different gender themselves?

It's not necessary for you to understand why people enjoy the things they do. But if you want to, I recommend you do some reading associative conditioning, Pavlov's dog, and while you're at it, also do some reading on chakras. Answers can be found.

reply posted on 3-9-2010 @ 09:55 AM by Death_Kron

Originally posted by ThichHeaded
I believe in reincarnation.. So therefor I believe sometimes the lines get crosses in the subconscious mind to make this happen..

Like in a past life a guy is killed then in this life he believes he is a guy in a girls body.. I have read many past life exp's to know that in many cases the people have more than 1 switch as their souls are converted from life to life..

So you I believe that may be the case..

I personally don't believe in reincarnation to be honest so I'm afraid that theory won't work for me

reply posted on 3-9-2010 @ 09:57 AM by Death_Kron

Originally posted by InfaRedMan
I believe in transsexualism. There are many things that can go wrong in the womb. Some physical, some hormonal and some neurological. I don't understand why the Op is having a touch time wrapping his/her head around the concept.

iRM 2.0

Because human beings are hormonal driven creatures and I find it hard to accept that a abnormality in the womb could cause a man or woman's personality to be placed in the wrong body...

reply posted on 3-9-2010 @ 10:03 AM by Death_Kron

reply to post by getreadyalready

Equally good answer.

I more or less share the same thoughts as you entirely.

It's only after speaking to homosexual's (here on ATS mainly) that I've become convinced that some of them, maybe not all, are honestly born the way they are.

As I've mentioned above I think there are a varitey of circumstances where people choose their own sexuality due to a number of reasons, mostly because of peer pressure or social unacceptance in my opinion.

I'm a heterosexual guy and have no problem commenting on another guys looks whether he is attractive or unattractive.

You get butch women and feminine men, isn't it just a fact of life that all of us are different and share different traits?

All of this born in the wrong body stuff seems a little strange to me and kinda like an excuse for not accepting the way someone is.

reply posted on 3-9-2010 @ 10:04 AM by getreadyalready

reply to post by getreadyalready

I can't believe no one has mentioned DNA yet.

Regardless of genitalia or personality, we define a Female as XX and Male as XY. No way to get around that one!!

There are plenty of feminine men that are straight, and plenty of masculine men that are gay, so again, I say it has nothing to do with genitalia, it has nothing to do with hormones or personality. It has everything to do with some fetish that developed at some key point at the beginning of puberty.

We all have turn ons, and we all have turn offs, and I personally believe they develop at some key "eureka" moment when we first discover our sexuality just before puberty. Of course they evolve over time as well.

reply posted on 3-9-2010 @ 10:05 AM by LordBucket

reply to post by Death_Kron

Sex change isn't actually possible, you'll always be the sex you was born as. Anything else is simply a modification...

Ok. So then, what is this quality that we're discussed is or isn't being changed? What does it mean to "be male" or "be female?" Is it a physical quality? Is it a spiritual quality? Is it mental? Do souls posses gender? What exactly defines "being" male or female?

reply posted on 3-9-2010 @ 10:06 AM by Death_Kron

reply to post by Dark Ghost

I agree to a point although I have trouble with trying to identify where this abnormality could arise from. I'll admit I don't have the nescessary medical knowledge to give an informed answer although at the end of the day if your born a man then your a man, the same with women.

reply posted on 3-9-2010 @ 10:07 AM by lellomackin

reply to post by getreadyalready

So, if I am following your logic correctly, you are saying that heterosexuals should only be attracted to one specific type of person and that every other attraction is a fetish or perversion?

Like, if a woman finds a more bookish and less macho guy attractive or if a man finds a more physical or dominant woman attractive?

And what of the studies that show that hetero men are attracted to a certain female body type (hip/waist ratio I believe)? Is that a perversion or is that biology?

I know gay guys who despise other homosexuals from a sexual attraction standpoint and prefer guys who come across as straight. I know lesbians who love very feminine girls, some are butch and some are very feminine as well.

I know this is slightly off topic, but I was hoping you could elaborate.

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